Dessert - The Polyphonic Dessert Blog

[smokey]

You don't need to copy out the whole thing (or the technique), but what are the amounts of flour/fat/liquid in the recipe?

Ahh, mk, I was hoping you would see my plea. For this specific recipe, the ingredients are:

1.5c flour (I weighed out 7.5 oz AP)

2Tb sugar

3/4 tsp. salt

1.25 sticks (10 Tb) butter, cut into Tb sized pieces, frozen

2.5 Tb Crisco, cut into two pieces, frozen (this was done by weight, don't remember the specifics of how much 2.5Tb weighs)

1/4c H20

I'm pretty sure it put in more water than what the recipe calls for, but am not positive--I see this as more of a by sight/touch thing and don't obsess too much about what the recipe calls for. That said, let me concede that I think I put in too much and had slightly over processed the shortening/flour mix, so I thought the resulting dough was a bit tough. Others thought it was just fine. I'm a pretty harsh critic of all my own baking.

I've got loads of baking books, and gnerally this amount of fat to flour seems pretty common, so I just dont think the ratio is off. However, as I said, I would appreciate any and all feedback.

[smokey]

[rant on] Regular old plain heavy aluminum pans are the best. Dark ones brown too much. Insulated ones are not necessary. I've been baking cookies for, um, let's see, about 30 years now, and I've always used heavy aluminum sheets, and never had any browning issues (unless I got busy with something else and forgot to set the timer, but that's a different problem). I also find silpats an annoyance - just one more thing to clean, with no advantages. [rant off]

Rant on, sister! I'm with you on this. I've always used heavy aluminum sheets and have never had a problem. I do sometimes use parchment paper. Have never invested in silpat, so am without opinions on that. I always pack brown sugar, and use two soup spoons to make my cookies. Unfortunately, squidsdc, I've never made the Alton Brown cookies, so don't have much opinion on what might have gone wrong (or not)--sorry.

[squidsdc]

Thanks for the opinions! Not so much went wrong, but knowing the "why" of what did happen helps. I always thought convection was designed for baking, but I am seeing info from many sources that say to only use convection when NOT baking! Unfortunately I have read this before...live and learn Good to know that I should always pack the bs--brown sugar, I mean.

I do like the silpat--they are not difficult to clean. And I will make sure we get rid of the insulated pans, so I don't make that mistake again. After struggling with the scoops, my conclusion was that I would just use the two soup spoons if I make these again, like my Mom always did. The reason I am not a good baker, is that I see a recipe and immediately think--oh I can add this, or not do that, or wouldn't this be better if I did x? My husband insists that is fine and good, if you do the recipe the way it is intended the first time, then you can know how to deviate. So, I tried! Of course, if one has more experience baking, such as mktye, I'm sure the deviations will come naturally.

I just have to face that I don't have much patience for baking, and not that much more for cooking I tend to do things more by "feel" and have trouble with the more exacting sciences. I am trying though...the problem is that if there is too much time inbetween my efforts, I forget what I learned previously! (Like about not using convection for baking, and packing the brown sugar) My roasted brussels sprouts, carrots and chestnuts with a lemon caper parsley sauce that I made for Thanksgiving did turn out quite nicely, though, if I do say so myself. There's more squish-room in making that kind of a dish.

[laniloa]

Heavy aluminum sheet pan and parchment for me. I now use my silpats for a number of things but not baking cookies (which is what I bought them for). I just like the way the bottoms turn out on parchment much better.

I do use a disher because I'm much faster with it then I am with two spoons.

My Thanksgiving contribution to the potluck dinner for 40 with NO coordination among guests on what to bring or the limits on re-heating in the party room kitchenette were a lemon cream tart and chocolate raspberry tart. Both cooked at my brother's place -- with his kitchen where only water is boiled. I gave my future sister-in-law a detailed shopping and equipment list and brought with me some equipment she didn't have. Sadly, her food processor turned out to hold about a tablespoon and the good quality chocolate she purchased turned out to be chocolate chips. Things turned out OK in the end and it was a nice check on how much more comfortable I've gotten with baking over the last year as I had to make one improvisation after another. And also a real test of my patience as I had to bite my tongue time after time while I watched my SIL attempt to help. The good news is that in the end we both enjoyed it and she asked about me teaching her to make a few things she can make for my as yet unborn niece(s) and/or nephew(s).

[cheezepowder]

What size scoop is a #20?

I pulled out my #20 scoop and measured it. It's about 2 1/4 inches in diameter and, holding it horizontally, I was able to spoon in about 4 tablespoons of water (4 tbls is a 1/4 cup) into the scoop bowl. It would make a large cookie.

[V.H.]

All my cookies are basically flat looking. The larger scoop, produced cookies that, while still being flat, definitely had more substance to them. I do like the taste better. I would appreciate any more unwritten specifics that someone who bakes more often than I, may be able to pass along...

I had this recipe come out kind of flat in one batch that I didn't chill thoroughly enough before scooping. Like others, I use two spoons to scoop the dough, mostly because I wanted smaller cookies and because I don't have a disher. I packed the brown sugar the last two times I made this but not the first two times and didn't notice major differences between the recipes.

I baked mine on silver colored insulated pans with parchment at the prescribed temp, not convection. No problems with browning or burning.

[squidsdc]

So my husband found where the # is on the scoop and it appears I was using a #24. From the sound of the size of the #20, that would definitely make a very large cookie, since these do tend to spread out and not remain very thick.

I didn't have time to bake these the night I made the batter, so it was very chilled--overnight. I did notice that the batter warmed up rather quickly, but could not see a difference in the flatness of the cookies between the very chilled and the ones that were scooped at the end. Verdict from my husband is that he prefers a crispier cookie--it figures.

I like getting all this feedback of what others have done and how their efforts turned out--if there is another easy recipe someone can recommend, I'd love to try this again. Instead of everyone making a different recipe from a cookbook, make the same one and compare the results!

[Xochitl10]

For Thanksgiving, I made a double-crust, sliced pumpkin pie, using a sugar pie pumpkin macerated in sugar, cinnamon and nutmeg. Last year, when I made this same pie using the recipe provided, it came out very watery (recipe called for 2-4 Tbs water (I used 2) added to raw sliced pumpkin, sugar, spices, dotted with butter and sprinkled with flour), so I thought that macerating would work really well, drawing out much of the liquid in the pumpkin, which could then be reduced and added back to the fruit. Instead, it came out rather dry. Flavorful, but dry. I attributed this to having macerated the pumpkin for WAY too long (~2 hours).

Yesterday, I made turnovers using the remaining pumpkin, sliced and macerated for a much shorter time, ~30 minutes. Same thing -- soft, but not moist, pumpkin filling. I think I won't macerate the next time I make this pie, but would appreciate other suggestions for reducing the liquidity in the pie.

In all cases, crust was awesome.

[shogun]

I rather suspected that Hagan Daaz 'Mayan Chocolate' ice cream would be great on top of apple pie, due to its various qualities. I was right. And also I was wrong. Did the Mayans do vanilla?

[jparrott]

Did the Mayans do vanilla?

Was it Madagascar or Tahitian?

[mktye]

Ahh, mk, I was hoping you would see my plea. For this specific recipe, the ingredients are:

1.5c flour (I weighed out 7.5 oz AP)

2Tb sugar

3/4 tsp. salt

1.25 sticks (10 Tb) butter, cut into Tb sized pieces, frozen

2.5 Tb Crisco, cut into two pieces, frozen (this was done by weight, don't remember the specifics of how much 2.5Tb weighs)

1/4c H20

I'm pretty sure it put in more water than what the recipe calls for, but am not positive--I see this as more of a by sight/touch thing and don't obsess too much about what the recipe calls for. That said, let me concede that I think I put in too much and had slightly over processed the shortening/flour mix, so I thought the resulting dough was a bit tough. Others thought it was just fine. I'm a pretty harsh critic of all my own baking.

I've got loads of baking books, and gnerally this amount of fat to flour seems pretty common, so I just dont think the ratio is off. However, as I said, I would appreciate any and all feedback.

My opinion is that it is a result of the fat/flour ratio. I've noticed the same "leaking" of butter only in doughs with a really high amount of fat compared to the amount of flour. One that immediately springs to mind is the galette dough recipe by Flo Braker in "Baking with Julia". It calls for 7 Tbsp. butter, 3 Tbsp. sour cream for 1 cup flour and 1/4 cornmeal and it always leaks butter when baked.

I tend to live on the wild side with my butter temps and have never noticed any differences in the end product (unless you are making a laminated dough, but that is a whole other problem). I look at it as a purely "mechanical" issue in that the flour can only hold so much fat. (And to go back to your reference to the laminated doughs, one fix for croissants leaking butter when baked is to mix 2-4 Tbsp. of flour into your block of butter before it is layered into the dough.)

The pie crust recipe I nearly always use is the one from "Fannie Farmer's Baking Book" and has much less fat per the amount of flour. I've never had a problem with it leaking like you describe, no matter the type fat. Here is the formula:

1½ cups bleached, all-purpose flour

¼ teaspoon salt

½ cup (8 tablespoons) vegetable shortening, butter, or a combination of the two, cold

3 to 5 tablespoons cold water

As far as water/liquid in pie crust dough -- I like to err on the side of too much rather than too little. My reasoning is that a softer dough is easier to roll so you are not fighting it as much during rolling and there is less gluten development. I used to have a heck of a time with pie crust until I started adding more water.

Lastly, I bet you are your own harshest critic. I suspect all of your family and guests where totally thrilled with your baking!

[mktye]

Was it Madagascar or Tahitian?

From the Nielsen-Massey website:

Mexican Pure Vanilla

Vanilla is actually native to Mexico, and is known by its creamy, spicy flavor that has a special affinity for dishes that contain chocolate, cinnamon and other warm spices. When properly processed, Mexican vanilla is of exceptionally high quality and flavor.

[smokey]

The pie crust recipe I nearly always use is the one from "Fannie Farmer's Baking Book" and has much less fat per the amount of flour. I've never had a problem with it leaking like you describe, no matter the type fat. Here is the formula:

1½ cups bleached, all-purpose flour

¼ teaspoon salt

½ cup (8 tablespoons) vegetable shortening, butter, or a combination of the two, cold

3 to 5 tablespoons cold water

Thanks, MK! I really appreciate your thoughts and posting of this recipe. I'll give it a try next time I make a pie crust.

A couple of quick(!?) questions. I assume the formula above is for a 'single' pie crust? Do you think that having more fat (as in the recipe I posted) makes the dough easier to work with, more tender, or some other benefit? Finally, if you do a combination of butter and vegetable shortening, do you just do it by volume and figure that the differences in % fat are not a big deal or do you do it by weight and try to factor in % fat in vegetable shortening vs. butter?

Thanks again, Smokey

[mktye]

A couple of quick(!?) questions. I assume the formula above is for a 'single' pie crust? Do you think that having more fat (as in the recipe I posted) makes the dough easier to work with, more tender, or some other benefit? Finally, if you do a combination of butter and vegetable shortening, do you just do it by volume and figure that the differences in % fat are not a big deal or do you do it by weight and try to factor in % fat in vegetable shortening vs. butter?

That formula is for a single 9" crust and generously so. Usually, I triple the amounts and get four single 9" crusts out of the resulting dough (even if I only need one crust, I like to fill all my favorite pie pans while I am at it and toss the extras in the freezer).

I've always just gone by volume regardless of the fat of choice. In my experience, there is a good amount of leeway (or at least enough to cover the differences in % fat per volume) and you are adding water as needed.

As far as workability goes, a lower-fat dough will nearly always need to be treated more gently than a higher-fat dough. With greater amounts of fat present, it is "covering" more of the flour and preventing the water from getting to the flour and, in turn, that hinders the development of gluten. But I would not consider this recipe terribly low in the amount of fat and it does not require extra-special handling (however, a nice rest in the refrigerator or freezer, after rolling it out, prevents almost all of the dreaded shrinkage ).

I have found some very high fat doughs (usually short doughs for tarts and such) can be a bit of pain to work with because they have hardly any gluten development and are very fragile. So some gluten development is helpful in regards to workability.

American-style pie crust really is a balancing act and I think one of the most difficult pastries to master. But, oh, it is so worth it.

[Xochitl10]

In a fit of nervous energy that also resulted in a focaccia, I made brownies based on 97.5% unsweetened Callebaut chocolate. I used Alice Medrich's recipe in "Bittersweet" for unsweetened chocolate brownies. They were really good -- smooth, not too sweet, not at all cakey, with a very nice, earthy chocolate flavor.

[laniloa]

In a fit of nervous energy that also resulted in a focaccia, I made brownies based on 97.5% unsweetened Callebaut chocolate. I used Alice Medrich's recipe in "Bittersweet" for unsweetened chocolate brownies. They were really good -- smooth, not too sweet, not at all cakey, with a very nice, earthy chocolate flavor.

I also looked to Medrich tonight. I made the cocoa brownies and added some ginger. Fudgy, rich, with a nice twist.

[smokey]

I made chocolate babka this weekend from a recipe from Martha Stewart's baking Handbook (title?). Incredibly rich and buttery--quite good. I've got three loaves frozen away, waiting for the right opportunity to be baked. Note to self, next time half the recipe!

mktye, thanks for the advice on the pie crust. I figured more gentle handling was the key to a not totally all fat all the time pie crust recipe, but wanted to double check.

[cheezepowder]

I made chocolate babka this weekend from a recipe from Martha Stewart's baking Handbook (title?). Incredibly rich and buttery--quite good.

I was just looking at a recipe for chocolate babka in this month's Gourmet magazine. I was thinking about making it sometime after the holidays. Your babka sounds good. Is this the Martha Stewart recipe that you used? For comparison, here are the ingredients from the Gourmet recipe. The Martha Stewart recipe I linked calls for much more chocolate per loaf.

Makes 2 loaves

dough:

3/4 cup warm milk

1/2 cup plus 2 teas sugar

3 teas active dry yeast

3 1/4 cups flour

2 eggs

1 egg yolk

1 teas vanilla

3/4 teas salt

1 1/4 sticks butter, cut in pieces and softened

egg wash:

1 yolk

1 tablespoon heavy cream or whole milk

chocolate filling:

5 tbls butter, well softened

two 3 1/2 to 4 oz bars of bittersweet chocolate (not more than 60% cocoa) finely chopped

1/4 cup sugar

[laniloa]

Made my first ever batch of rugelach tonight. We are supposed to be enjoying holiday goodies at the staff meeting tomorrow. I can deal with generic holiday celebrations in government offices because I can pretend they are for New Years and not a faith-based kind of thing. Even if I know I'm the only one pretending this. I went to a meeting out of town and this somehow turned into a Christmas celebration. Which I'm totally opposed to but my entire office is excited about. I could chose to be the scrooge boss or shake it off. I decided not to be the scrooge boss but couldn't quite shake it off.

Which is my long-winded way of saying I wanted a nice Jewish dessert. I know most of my staff won't get it. But I will. And I know there are German and Polish versions as well. But I used Bubbe's recipe (as modernized by my cousin) and they are so much better then I could have hoped for my first attempt. They taste like a solid fifth attempt. The dough is light and flaky. The filling is the right blend of fruit and nuts -- sweet and tangy. I usually prefer chocolate rugelach to fruit but these could turn me around. Which won't stop me from playing around with a chocolate filling next.

[laniloa]

Made the second batch using Dorie Greenspan's recipe in Baking From My Home To Yours. These have a lighter, flakier crust that I prefer but less filling. I think these would be perfect with more filling. This recipe had chocolate in addition to jam, raisins, and nuts. I was out of chocolate (I'm not sure how that happened) and I probably would have left it out even if I had it. The go-to bakery where I grew up did not mix chocolate and fruit. Might be delicious, but not what I think of when I think rugelach.

[smokey]

I was just looking at a recipe for chocolate babka in this month's Gourmet magazine. I was thinking about making it sometime after the holidays. Your babka sounds good. Is this the Martha Stewart recipe that you used? For comparison, here are the ingredients from the Gourmet recipe. The Martha Stewart recipe I linked calls for much more chocolate per loaf.

Cheezpowder--I'm sorry, I don't know how I missed your query before. Apologies. Although I don't have the book in front of me, I read over the ingredients and instructions in the link, and that definitely looks identical to the babka recipe I made. I didn't bother with the streusel topping (just wasn't appealing to me). I liked how chocolatey it was (that was something I was looking for in a recipe). If anything, I might consider cutting back on the butter in the dough. In retrospect, it is a *really* rich bread. And, I would definitely cut back on the whole recipe. I didn't have anybody in mind to give them to when I made them, so froze up three of the 4 I made (I didn't have the pan sized she called for, so just purchased a couple of those cheapie-disposable ones at the grocery store). Unfortunately, I wasn't really thinking when I did it (moving on auto-pilot, I suppose), and I put the egg wash on two of the three I froze before freezing them, so I'm not really comfortable giving them away frozen ("Here's a gift you can bake for yourself, but I would be really careful about letting it get to room temperature because of the salmonella risk. Enjoy!") Yes, I am actually willing to eat it myself, but not give it away. I'm well aware I'm probably being beyond anal.

Oh, and if you do the MS recipe and have a 4.5qt. mixer, word up--that dough will just crawl right up your dough hook into the 'planetary action' area, necessitating a visit with the mixer doctor. It's a drag to be without your mixer during the baking season!

[smokey]

Made the second batch using Dorie Greenspan's recipe in Baking From My Home To Yours. <snip> The go-to bakery where I grew up did not mix chocolate and fruit. Might be delicious, but not what I think of when I think rugelach.

Thanks for the feedback on this recipe. I was half considering making it. However, I agree with you--the fruit/chocolate combo is just weird to me (in a rugelach).

[laniloa]

Thanks for the feedback on this recipe. I was half considering making it. However, I agree with you--the fruit/chocolate combo is just weird to me (in a rugelach).

The office feedback was very positive. I was asked if this could make it into the regular rotation.

[laniloa]

Cheezpowder--I'm sorry, I don't know how I missed your query before. Apologies. Although I don't have the book in front of me, I read over the ingredients and instructions in the link, and that definitely looks identical to the babka recipe I made. I didn't bother with the streusel topping (just wasn't appealing to me). I liked how chocolatey it was (that was something I was looking for in a recipe). If anything, I might consider cutting back on the butter in the dough.

I've made this recipe before and thought it yielded about twice the streusel (which is definitely worth trying) and chocolate filling needed to make this a full-o-chocolate babka. Try making it into french toast for a fabulously indulgent breakfast.

[smokey]

Here is the formula:

1½ cups bleached, all-purpose flour

¼ teaspoon salt

½ cup (8 tablespoons) vegetable shortening, butter, or a combination of the two, cold

3 to 5 tablespoons cold water

MK, you and Fannie Farmer are da bomb (collectively!). I made the apple pie for our xmas dinner with this recipe (50/50 by volume crisco/butter split) and it was *great*. My only complaint is that I think there was too much shortening vs. butter, and in future versions will try skewing the ratio more towards butter. Otherwise, no leaking problems, dough easy enough to handle, came together nicely.

Thank you!

[smokey]

I've made this recipe before and thought it yielded about twice the streusel (which is definitely worth trying) and chocolate filling needed to make this a full-o-chocolate babka. Try making it into french toast for a fabulously indulgent breakfast.

For xmas morn, I defrosted one of my MS chocolate babka loaves. I was struck by how much chocolate there is (and insisted that there was surely less in the first loaf I made--the +1 says I'm wrong!) and how rich it is.

[Xochitl10]

For a holiday party this past weekend, I made the chocolate-peppermint bars from the last page of the Gourmet holiday issue. I give them a big old meh -- the peppermint flavor was hardly noticeable. If I made them again (and I might, because I love bashing the hell out of peppermints), I would probably add some creme de menthe or peppermint extract to the chocolate batter. They weren't overly sweet, though, which was nice.

I also made the lemon bars from "The New Best Recipe." I think they may be "the best" lemon bars I've ever made: crust was nice and tender yet sturdy, and the curd wasn't gummy at all. They're pretty rich, though, so I will likely cut them smaller next time.

[cheezepowder]

I also made the lemon bars from "The New Best Recipe." I think they may be "the best" lemon bars I've ever made: crust was nice and tender yet sturdy, and the curd wasn't gummy at all. They're pretty rich, though, so I will likely cut them smaller next time.

I just made lemon bars for the first time using a recipe from the Williams Sonoma Cookies cookbook. They turned out well with a good lemon flavor, although the lemon layer looked thinner than other lemon bars I've seen. But a thicker lemon layer might be too much. I have "The Best Recipe" but not "The New Best Recipe" so I don't know if the recipe you used was similar, but I see in "The Best Recipe" that they include milk in the lemon topping. I was wondering how that would turn out. I might try that one next.

I also had tons of bananas (clearance rack at Giant, 10 cents a pound for a bag). I normally use a James Beard recipe for banana bread, but I thought I'd experiment. I made three loaves of banana bread using the following recipes:

1) Cooks Illustrated from The Best Recipe, recipe also available here (which uses yogurt). Firm, dense loaf. I don't know if it has anything to do with the recipe, but this loaf cracked randomly along the top while the Martha Stewart loaf cracked almost in a straight line down the middle. This was good, but I liked the Martha Stewart one better.

2) Martha Stewart recipe (click here) (which uses sour cream). A softer crumb and moister than the Cooks Illustrated recipe. It also rose a little higher. This was my favorite of the three.

3) Oatmeal banana bread recipe (click here) (I used butter instead of shortening). There wasn't much oatmeal so when eating a slice, you'd just chew on a piece of oatmeal here or there. This loaf rose the least. It was ok, but I'd add more oatmeal and modify it if I made it again.

There's another banana bread recipe in the Beard on Bread book I have that calls for honey for half the sugar, so I'll try that next time.

I also made banana cupcakes using the recipe I think was mentioned here (which also uses sour cream), and recipe is also here. I'm now banana-ed out!

[Xochitl10]

I just made lemon bars for the first time using a recipe from the Williams Sonoma Cookies cookbook. They turned out well with a good lemon flavor, although the lemon layer looked thinner than other lemon bars I've seen. But a thicker lemon layer might be too much. I have "The Best Recipe" but not "The New Best Recipe" so I don't know if the recipe you used was similar, but I see in "The Best Recipe" that they include milk in the lemon topping. I was wondering how that would turn out. I might try that one next.

Interesting. This recipe uses three tablespoons of cream added to the lemon curd after cooking and straining. The amount of curd makes a 1/4"-1/2" layer (I'm not so much known for my ability to get things even) on top of the crust.

Also, would you mind posting the recipe for the oatmeal banana bread? It sounds potentially very tasty.

[cheezepowder]

No problem, I included links to each of the recipes above including the oatmeal banana bread. I edited my post to make it more obvious that it wasn't just underlining.

As I mentioned and just to warn you, it's not oatmealy enough for what I'd call an "oatmeal" bread.

The Best Recipe lemon bar recipe sounds different in technique as well as ingredients from The New Best Recipe. Like the Williams Sonoma recipe, the Best Recipe calls for mixing the lemon filling ingredients together and pouring it into the warm prebaked crust. No separate cooking/straining of the lemon curd. I happen to have The Best Recipe nearby (but not the Williams Sonoma book) so here's a rundown of The Best Recipe lemon bar recipe:

Crust

1 3/4 cups flour

2/3 cup confectioners sugar

1/4 cup cornstarch

3/4 teas salt

12 tbls softened unsalted butter, cut into 1 inch pieces

Lemon layer:

4 eggs

1 1/3 cups sugar

3 tbls flour

2 teas zest

2/3 cup juice

1/3 cup whole milk

1/8 teas salt

Line a 13x9 baking dish with parchment paper. Preheat oven to 350. Mix dry crust ingredients in a food processor and process in the butter til coarse crumbs. Press into pan, refrigerate for 30 minutes, then bake for 20 minutes. In the meantime, mix eggs, sugar, flour, then add lemon zest, juice, milk and salt. Reduce oven to 325 and pour filling into the warm crust and bake for about 20 minutes.

The Williams Sonoma recipe was similar except no cornstarch, no milk, different proportions/smaller amount of ingredients to make enough for an 8x8 pan, and no refrigerating the crust for 30 minutes. But same technique including reducing the oven temperature.

Plus, I don't quite understand The Best Recipe versus The New Best Recipe.

[Xochitl10]

No problem, I included links to each of the recipes above including the oatmeal banana bread. I edited my post to make it more obvious that it wasn't just underlining.

I'm apparently also not known for my ability to click on things. Thanks for clarifying!

The Best Recipe lemon bar recipe sounds different in technique as well as ingredients from The New Best Recipe. Like the Williams Sonoma recipe, the Best Recipe calls for mixing the lemon filling ingredients together and pouring it into the warm prebaked crust. No separate cooking/straining of the lemon curd.

TNBR recipe is quite a bit different. Crust technique is the same, but only calls for 1 stick of butter, 1-1/4 cup flour, and 1/2 cup confectioner's sugar (1/2 t. salt is the same). Filling has the same amount (2/3 cup) of lemon juice; upped zest to 1/4 cup; reduced sugar to 1 cup plus 2 T and salt to a pinch; no flour or milk; 7 yolks and 2 whole eggs; 4 T butter cut into 1" pieces. Sugar and egg yolks mixed, add salt, zest, and juice; add butter and cook over medium-low heat constantly stirring until "thin sauce consistency" and thermometer reads 170. Strain, add 3 T cream, pour into crust, and bake at 350 for 10-15 minutes. Also, this recipe uses a 9x9 pan, not a 9x13, and makes no reference to "The Best Recipe"s recipe.

[mktye]

The Best Recipe lemon bar recipe sounds different in technique as well as ingredients from The New Best Recipe.

The recipe from The Best Recipe is also my "go-to" lemon bar recipe (actually, I first started using it when it appeared in an issue of CI).

I suspect one of the main reasons they changed it was because, if you don't cook the bars long enough, the lemon layer will thin upon sitting. For a party, my sister cooked three pans of The Best Recipe lemon bars, carefully watched them so they would not over-cook, removed them just as they were set, cooled them, put them in the refrigerator, took them out the next day to cut them and found she had lemon bar soup.

Like with pastry creams and other such eggy-starch-added-custards, there is an enzyme in the egg yolks (alpha amylase) that can degrade the starch in the cooked custard and cause it to thin over time. Enough time (a couple of minutes) at a sufficient temperature (a low boil) will break down the enzyme so it is inactive, but if it is not cooked enough... you have a mess.

I like the ease of not having to pre-cook the lemon-layer, so I am sticking with this recipe. I just make sure to err on the side of well-done when baking. Because of the starch involved in the thicking, you don't have to worry quite so much about it becoming rubbery as you would with a non-starch custard (which are nearly always cooked in a water bath). That said, you can overcook the custard layer if you are determined, but an extra five minutes or so is not a problem.

[cheezepowder]

Xochitl10, very interesting about the differences in the lemon bar recipes in The New Best Recipe and The Best Recipe. Mktye, thanks for the warning on the liquid lemon bars. The Williams Sonoma lemon bar recipe which has the same technique as The Best Recipe calls for cooking the lemon filling for about 30 minutes (til springy), instead of 20. I wonder if that's why. For anyone testing lemon bar recipes , here's a rundown of the Williams Sonoma lemon bar recipe:

Crust

1 cup flour

1/4 cup powdered sugar

1/4 teas salt

1 teas lemon zest

1/2 cup cold unsalted butter, cut in small pieces

Filling

3 tablespoons flour

1/2 cup lemon juice

3 eggs

1 cup sugar

1 tablespoon lemon zest

pinch of salt

Line a 13 3/4 by 4 1/4 inch oblong tart pan or 8 inch square baking pan with parchment paper (W.S. says greased aluminum foil). It helps to have the paper going up the sides of the pan so you can use the paper to lift the entire bar up out of the pan when cool. Process dry crust ingredients with butter just until it turns into crumbs and press into pan (I used my mixer but W.S. says use food processor). Bake at 350 for 25 minutes. Make filling - mix flour and juice, then mix in the rest of ingredients. When crust is ready, pour filling into the hot crust, reduce oven to 325 and bake for 30 minutes. Cool before slicing.

Has anyone tried using a lemon bar recipe but substituting orange, lime or grapefruit juice?

[Xochitl10]

Finally made the oatmeal banana bread cheezepowder linked to a few posts ago. Per the suggestion, I doubled the amount of oatmeal to 1 cup. I also omitted the walnuts. The loaf was rather dry, probably because I failed to account for the possibility that more oats would suck up some of the liquid in the batter, so I didn't add any additional eggs/bananas/other liquid. The oats definitely had a presence in the bread, and the loaf had a relatively subdued banana flavor, which may have resulted from the increased oat level. Azami, who does not much care for bananas, liked it for that reason. I think it's worth continued tweaking.

[zoramargolis]

Last night I was invited to a birthday caviar-feast party for a friend, and offered to bring dessert. I decided to make cheesecake, which I haven't done for a while. The recipe/method I use is my own adaptation of the Cordon Rose Cheesecake in Rose Levy Barenbaum's book _The Cake Bible_, which Shirley Corriher also includes in her book-- with credit and permission, because it is the best cheesecake ever.

I usually make lemon or Meyer lemon flavor but I had gotten some blood oranges at Trader Joe's, and I decided to try that. The recipe calls for 3 T of lemon juice, and I substitued blood orange juice. To make up for the lack of acidity in eliminating the lemon juice, I substituted a cup of wholemilk yogurt for one of the three cups of sour cream it calls for. RLB does not recommend baking in a crust--she applies crumbs to the chilled cake afterwards. I really like cheesecake in a crust, so I made a gingersnap-almond crust with a little cardamom, baked it and then painted it with egg white and baked it again to seal the crust, so that it wouldn't get soggy. I added the extra egg yolk to the cheesecake batter along with the called for 3 whole eggs. For flavor, I zested three blood oranges into the batter, and used vanilla and a good shot of tangerine oil, which I had gotten at Surfas. I was expecting the batter to be slightly pink, but there wasn't really enough blood orange juice in it, although the orange-reddish flecks of zest were easy to see.

RLB's method involves wrapping the springform pan in aluminum foil, and baking the cheesecake in a waterbath. You bake it for 45 minutes, then turn the oven off and leave the cheesecake in the oven without opening the door, for another hour. Then it is cooled and thoroughly chilled before removing the springpan(RLB says overnight, but I just put it out on my unheated service porch, which is colder than the refrigerator).

The flavor was very delicious--I would do it again. And the texture, as always is sublime--amazingly light. The birthday "girl" who had never previously eaten cheesecake made by me, pronounced it the best cheesecake she'd ever eaten. I hear that every time I make the RLB recipe. And that's what Shirley Corriher says about it in her book--it's her go-to dessert for her own family gatherings and potlucks.

[Barbara]

Zora:

What proportions, oven temp, for this crust? Did you do just a bottom crust or sides as well? Also, did you bake the cake in a waterbath? Thanks.

[zoramargolis]

Zora:

What proportions, oven temp, for this crust? Did you do just a bottom crust or sides as well? Also, did you bake the cake in a waterbath? Thanks.

The crust was one package of Anna's Ginger Thins, 1/3 cup melted unsalted butter, and about 1/4-1/3 cup of blanched almonds and 1/2 tsp. ground cardamom blended together in food processor. It covered the bottom and sides of the springform. I baked the crust at 325 for 14 minutes, brushed on eggwhite after it cooled and baked it for another 7-8 minutes to dry the eggwhite. When it cooled, I poured in the batter.

The cheesecake was baked in a 1" deep waterbath, at 350 for 45 minutes and then left in the "off" oven for 1 hour.

The basic batter recipe is:

2 pkg. Philadelphia cream cheese, creamed together with

1 cup sugar

1 T. cornstarch

3 large eggs added, one at a time

3 T. lemon juice

1 1/2 tsp. vanilla

1/4 tsp. salt

3 cups sour cream

[laniloa]

Inspired by the conversation on the Mardi Gras party thread, I made my first ever King Cake for my office. I used an almond paste-cinnamon filling. It seemed to be getting too dark too fast so I had to shift it to a lower rack in the oven. Then I was afraid I'd overbake it. So I may have underbaked a bit. It looks and smells gorgeous but one side deflated a bit. I colored some sugar to sprinkle on top. My hands are quite colorful as a result.

Also made a batch of cocoa-chile brownies to ship to a friend. I trimmed the edges to get nice, sharp corners...and to create so scraps to sample. I love the tingle these give your tongue.

[smokey]

Zora--Have you had problems with the waterbath getting into the springform pan? No matter how I try to do this (wrap spring form in extra strength aluminum foil, what have you), I've never been successful with the waterbath and it drives me nuts. I would love to hear a tip or two from somebody who has made this work.

Chocolate cookie recipe quest

My 3.5yo and I made cookies for valentine's day last night. It was a cocoa snowflake recipe from Penzey's. Somehow, I think I got suckered by the photograph, because I've never been tempted by any of their recipes before. I love their spices, but those recipes, oy. Anyway, I found the cookies to be wholly disappointing. Not enough chocolate flavor at all (they did, however, look good). I searched the Penzey's site and the recipe isn't there, or I would link to it. It's a chocolate cookie, flavored chocolate with cocoa only. The dough is refrigerated overnight (or else it would never get firm enough to handle) and then rolled into small balls, which are rolled in 10x and baked. They spread somewhat and get a pretty, crackly white and brown top. (Full disclosure, the +1 and the 3.5 yo think the cookies are just grand, but they don't have very discriminating palates )

All this is actually my long way of asking whether somebody has a good, reliable, not-too-fussy chocolate cookie recipe. I've made those claudia fleming cookies where you have to have the dough whip in the mixer for roughly 15 min, and that's too fussy for me and me 3.5 yo (although they do taste good). I tried a chocolate butter cookie from Gourmet's xmas edition roughly 2 yo, and the dough was way too big a pain in the ass to handle. I want something with a good chocolate taste that doesn't require too much hand-holding. Is that asking too much of a chocolate cookie? If the answer is yes, I'll accept that, but want to try a few more recipes before I give up.

I've got a brownie recipe I like and a chocolate biscotti recipe I like; I figure there's a chocolate cookie recipe out there for me somewhere!

Thanks.

[zoramargolis]

Zora--Have you had problems with the waterbath getting into the springform pan? No matter how I try to do this (wrap spring form in extra strength aluminum foil, what have you), I've never been successful with the waterbath and it drives me nuts. I would love to hear a tip or two from somebody who has made this work.

It happened to me once. I believe that problem was that the sides of the water bath were too high--the sides of the pan that the water is in should be lower than the springform. Rose Levy Beranbaum says that the depth of the water in the bain marie should be 1"--that time I had also put too much water into the bain marie. Also--wrap the foil close to the springform and shape the upper edge of the foil outwardly, so that the foil can deflect steam away from the cake, and condensation can't pool on the cake.

Since I've been more careful, I haven't had any problems.

[porcupine]

Chocolate cookie recipe quest

All this is actually my long way of asking whether somebody has a good, reliable, not-too-fussy chocolate cookie recipe.

I think this one was from Gourmet magazine. You could leave out the chocolate chips if you like.

Chocolate Chocolate Chip Cookies

Sift together 1 1/4 c flour, 2 T cocoa powder, 1 t baking powder, and 3/4 t salt.

Melt together 12 oz semisweet chocolate w/ 1/2c butter. Remove from heat, let cool if it got hot, then stir in 1/2 c sugar. Beat in 3 eggs, one at a time.

Stir in the flour mixture. Add 4 oz chopped semi-sweet chocolate (or chips).

Drop onto parchment lined sheets and bake at 350 for ten minutes*. Let stand on sheet 5 minutes before removing to rack to cool.

*obviously the baking time will depend on how big the cookies are; I tend to make them on the small side. Baking a test batch of 3 or 4 cookies only is a good idea, as the consistency changes radically with only a small change in baking time.

[Husband]

Smokey,

I make cheesecakes fairly often. I can't tell you what your problem is, but I think it may be over filling. The water shouldn't go more than halfway up the side of the container in which you are bathing.

Another issue may be the temperature of the water when you actually add it into the pan. It should be hot if not boiling when you do so. The issue is keeping the specific heat of the substance inside the cake pan from rising too quickly. If you simply add luke warm water, then its going to take a great deal longer for the cheesecake to bake. You also might want to look at the recipe.

Many of mine I don't remove from the oven for a bit until after I've baked for the set period. It immediately gets placed in the fridge before I remove it from the pan. Most cheese cakes don't set until about 3-4 hours of being cool. I hope some of these help. If these don't, Cook's Illustrated has a version of cheesecake in the Best New Recipes that is nearly bullet proof and may help you there to figure out the problem.

As for your cookies, my wife and I did an entry about cookies for Xmas where we did 5 cookies as gifts. One of the best cookies there was this chocolate cookie. It's likely a bit too crafty for a 3 1/2 yo, but they are knock your socks off chocolaty. I hope these help.

[mktye]

Zora--Have you had problems with the waterbath getting into the springform pan? No matter how I try to do this (wrap spring form in extra strength aluminum foil, what have you), I've never been successful with the waterbath and it drives me nuts. I would love to hear a tip or two from somebody who has made this work.

I usually bake around two dozen cheesecakes every Christmas as gifts and never use a waterbath!

If you are lazy and foolhardy like me, you might want to experiment with cooking your cheesecake at a very low temperature (275-300F). My favorite cheesecake bakes at 285 degrees for 1.5 hours. Then I turn off the oven and let it sit in there until it's cool enough that I can pull it out with my barehands. No cracks or issues with texture.

Yes, a waterbath is more fool-proof, but if you know your oven and watch the timing, it is possible to skip the hassle (and fit more pans in your oven).

Also, to avoid cracks in the tops, be very careful to whip as little air as possible into your cheesecake "batter". Having everything at room temperature really helps. You want the cake to rise as little as possible and also be sure not to overbake it.

Another option for those who'd rather stay with a waterbath is something I read just last night in Nick Malgieri's Perfect Cakes -- bake your water-bathed cheesecake in a solid, high-sided (~3") pan, cool, and chill thoroughly (covered), preferably overnight. Run a knife around the sides of the pan, heat the bottom of the pan, moving it around for a total of 5 seconds over a medium burner, put a piece of plastic wrap that has been sprayed with water over the top of the pan (it does not need to touch the top of the cheesecake) with the wet side down. Then invert onto a plate (or cutting board or back of a sheet pan) and pray. Remove the pan, invert the cake again onto your serving dish, peel off the pastic wrap and gently dap the top of the cheesecake with a piece of paper towel to remove any residual moisture.

The theory is that the small amount of water on the plastic wrap will keep it from sticking to the top of the cheese cake.

When I make cheesecakes, I nearly always remove them from the bottom part of the springform pan before serving/gifting, so I know that a fully-chilled cheesecake is surprisingly sturdy. And I can really see how the wet plastic could very well not mar the top of the cheesecake. But I have yet to attempt this method. So the big question is: who is going to try it first?

[Barbara]

My problem is that the only pan I have large enough to fit my "Cadillac" of springform pans in is my LOBSTER pot! Plus, I have had problem with water seeping in making the crust soggy. I may skip the whole water bath thing and just use lower temps.

I haven't tried the water on the plastic wrap; I just use plain plastic wrap over my largest cutting board and flipping the cake over on it, prying off the bottom and turning the whole thing over onto the serving platter. (I always line the bottom with wax or parchment paper and butter that before adding the crust.)

MKTYE is certainly right about cheesecakes being very sturdy things. This is a good thing.

[laniloa]

Chocolate cookie recipe quest

All this is actually my long way of asking whether somebody has a good, reliable, not-too-fussy chocolate cookie recipe.

I am a big fan of Dorie Greenspan/Pierre Herme's chocolate sable, chocolate korova, world peace cookies (name depends on where the recipe is printed). You can find the recipe here. I like them because they are very chocolatey, easy to make ahead, and definitely showcase good quality cocoa and chocolate. As an added bonus, they aren't too sweet.

[smokey]

Plus, I have had problem with water seeping in making the crust soggy. I may skip the whole water bath thing and just use lower temps.

I don't think I was very clear in the problem I'm having. It's not water coming over the top or condensation or steam, it's water seeping in making the crust soggy (like what you describe, Barbara). My springform has 3" sides. When I've cooked a cheesecake with a water bath, I've tried starting with boiling water. I do understand the point of the bain marie from a transmission-of-heat perspective (although my physics of heat is far from fool proof--in a moment of idiocy I *once* decided to try pouring boiling water into a room temp pyrex pan, thus necessitating the replacement of said pyrex pan).

I'm thinking the low constant temp thing may be my friend.

Thanks for the chocolate cookie recipes. The korova cookies are a bit much for what I'm after (great chocolate flavor, but I'm not much in the mood for a sable most of the time). I'm thinking the drop nature of the ones porcupine posted may be just what I'm after (from an ease of prep and texture perspective). Ahh, the joys of baking experimentation!

[zoramargolis]

I don't think I was very clear in the problem I'm having. It's not water coming over the top or condensation or steam, it's water seeping in making the crust soggy (like what you describe, Barbara). My springform has 3" sides.

Theoretically, a springform pan well-wrapped with heavy-duty foil that does not have holes in it cannot get water in it from below. So the water that is getting in there, between the pan and the foil, and seeping through the pan and getting into the cake must be coming in from above. A large, shallow roasting pan, lasagna pan or casserole works best. The sides of the waterbath pan must be lower than the springform. So a springform pan that is 3" high should use a waterbath pan that is 2" high, and filled with 1" of boiling water.

[legant]

Confession time: I am so not a baker. I do gingerbread, a chocolate ginger cake, and a chocolate chili cake. That's it. However, txaggie made this wonderful Tiramisu cake (from Dorie Greenspan's book) for my birthday that I want to add to my repertoire.

(Egad! I sound like one of those folks who write into Bon Appetit! I had a wonderful meal at Chez xxx, but I especially loved the dessert. Would you ask the chef to share the recipe?)

Although she sent me the recipe, I want to halve the cake. I have 6-inch cake pans that I use expressly for that purpose. The question is: what do I need to take in consideration when halving the recipe.

The ingredients are listed below. I'm okay up till the 3 eggs and 1 egg yolk. If I used two whole eggs how will that affect the texture of the cake? I'm guessing that the baking powder and soda amounts remain the same; or, do they need to be adjusted for half a cake? Anything else I should keep in mind?

For the Cake

2 cups cake flour

2 tsp baking powder

1/8 tsp baking soda

¼ tsp salt

1 ¼ sticks unsalted butter, room temp

1 cup sugar

3 large eggs

1 large egg yolk

1 ½ tsp vanilla extract

¾ cup buttermilk

[mktye]

Although she sent me the recipe, I want to halve the cake. I have 6-inch cake pans that I use expressly for that purpose. The question is: what do I need to take in consideration when halving the recipe.

The ingredients are listed below. I'm okay up till the 3 eggs and 1 egg yolk. If I used two whole eggs how will that affect the texture of the cake? I'm guessing that the baking powder and soda amounts remain the same; or, do they need to be adjusted for half a cake? Anything else I should keep in mind?

For the Cake

2 cups cake flour

2 tsp baking powder

1/8 tsp baking soda

¼ tsp salt

1 ¼ sticks unsalted butter, room temp

1 cup sugar

3 large eggs

1 large egg yolk

1 ½ tsp vanilla extract

¾ cup buttermilk

rwtye, who is reading over my shoulder, suggests to make the whole recipe and throw out half the batter. Can you tell he is an engineer employed by the federal government?

Without seeing the method part of the recipe, my suggestion is to use 1 whole egg and 2 whole yolks.

Or to use 1 whole egg and 1 large egg yolk and add a touch more of the buttermilk (but not more than a tablespoon additional). As to which one would work better, it will really depend on the what you are looking for in the finished cake. But I think adding two whole eggs might make the cake a bit rubbery.

Another more exacting option is to beat together one egg and one yolk and use half of that mixture plus one whole egg, but you may not want to waste the eggs. And if you want to get really precise, for large eggs, the total volume of one egg is ~3-1/4 tablespoons, with ~2-1/4 tablespoons being the whites and ~1 tablespoon for the yolk.

Halve *everything* else, including the baking powder and baking soda. You'll probably also want to keep an eye on the cake near the end of baking since it might be done a bit faster due to the smaller pan size.

However, you might also want to give txaggie a call/PM since she has more experience with this particular cake and can probably answer the 2 yoke vs. the 1 yolk + a bit more buttermilk dilemma.

Please let us know what you end up doing and how it turned out!

[dmaddox]

Theoretically, a springform pan well-wrapped with heavy-duty foil that does not have holes in it cannot get water in it from below.

Adding on here...

Make sure the foil is the "extra wide" variety. The ordinary, garden variety width foil takes two sheets to get all around the pan to the right height. Naturally, that leaves a seam that water can get through. I buy foil from the restaurant supply, and it's the perfect width for wrapping a 9" springform pan or lining a half sheet pan.