All-In-One Communities - Mosaic District, Pike & Rose, Etc.

[DonRocks]

Coming to Pike & Rose also.

Has anyone thought that these "villages" that are being designed and built today are equivalent to the "malls" of last generation?

Mosaic is Tysons Corner (the old Tysons Corner)

Pike & Rose is White Flint.

Or would they be more equivalent to "planned communities" such as Columbia and Reston, except on a much denser scale?

I guess Metro has made these possible, and future generations will become less dependent on owning automobiles. Hard to believe, but I see that fundamental change coming. Well, I suppose it couldn't be any *worse* than spewing out carbon monoxide and driving to Wal-Mart. But I just hope there are plenty of parks included in the plans because nothing replaces greenery. Except, of course, green - my impression is that both of these developments have way too much pavement, and not nearly enough grass and trees.

Without having checked to see if "Mosaic District" and "Pike and Rose" have the same general contractor, it seems they have similar website design:

Where are the black people in that Mosaic picture?

Pike & Rose gets credit for being more inclusive.

[DaveO]

Has anyone thought that these "villages" that are being designed and built today are equivalent to the "malls" of last generation?

I think they are.  Just as the malls of previous generations were the relocated downtown shopping districts of central cities.

Mosaic is Tysons Corner (the old Tysons Corner)

Pike & Rose is White Flint.

Or would they be more equivalent to "planned communities" such as Columbia and Reston, except on a much denser scale?

I guess Metro has made these possible, and future generations will become less dependent on owning automobiles. Hard to believe, but I see that fundamental change coming. Well, I suppose it couldn't be any *worse* than spewing out carbon monoxide and driving to Wal-Mart. But I just hope there are plenty of parks included in the plans because nothing replaces greenery. Except, of course, green - my impression is that both of these developments have way too much pavement, and not nearly enough grass and trees.

Without having checked to see if "Mosaic District" and "Pike and Rose" have the same general contractor, it seems they have similar website design:

Screenshot 2015-03-05 at 11.54.20.png

Where are the black people in that Mosaic picture?

Screenshot 2015-03-05 at 12.06.00.png

Pike & Rose gets credit for being more inclusive.

I "studied planning"  oh way back when, then worked in commercial real estate, then consulted on "transit oriented development".  

These types of open air shopping/living/recreating centers are being built around the country and often replace malls.     In most of the country they don't have a "metro" but they still work better than the malls they replaced.   I'd suggest that Harbor Place and Faneuil Hall in Boston are early versions of this phenomena, albeit with additional features.

They are far more commercial and dense  than green with trees, being more connected to the green of money.  Ultimately populations like them.  Not all populations.  Some want single family homes and yards, some want expansive lands and will move far out to obtain them, and some like more urbanized areas.

They replicate the vitality of mixed urban neighborhoods and frankly they are populating many mid sized cities around the nation let alone popping up in DC's suburbs in areas connected to Metro or not.   There have been a good number of successes.

Back in the 90's I had an opportunity to possibly take a "lead role" in one of these efforts in a mid sized city.  To make a long story short I passed and suggested it wouldn't work.  An adjacent mall and a multi story commercial building that was half retail half commercial office were "blown up" and converted to a Mosaic or Pike and Rose type of environment.  Its now a huge success with mixed residential, retail, commercial and recreation centers.  Its become a draw for the city and its surroundings.

Boy was I wrong!!!!!!!    

[The Hersch]

I've been to the so-called Mosaic District once, about three months ago, I think. It is not a "district". Where do they get that shit? It is a "development". What struck me immediately, such that I said it aloud to myself when I arrived, and then again to my companions I met for lunch, was "all the disadvantages of the city". It's a suburban mall made up to look like an urban shopping area that was not designed, even though obviously it was designed. That is, it's sort of Shirlington, except fucked up. The roads and traffic patterns make no sense, the various elements of the place don't align with each other in a harmonious way, it all seems accidental, except somebody planned it out in advance to work this way. And though it's supposedly transit friendly, it's surrounded by huge, multilane roads practically impossible for a pedestrian to navigate, at least the way I approached it, admittedly in a car. I found it appalling, and hope never to find myself there again.

[DonRocks]

I've been to the so-called Mosaic District once, about three months ago, I think. It is not a "district". Where do they get that shit? It is a "development". What struck me immediately, such that I said it aloud to myself when I arrived, and then again to my companions I met for lunch, was "all the disadvantages of the city". It's a suburban mall made up to look like an urban shopping area that was not designed, even though obviously it was designed. That is, it's sort of Shirlington, except fucked up. The roads and traffic patterns make no sense, the various elements of the place don't align with each other in a harmonious way, it all seems accidental, except somebody planned it out in advance to work this way. And though it's supposedly transit friendly, it's surrounded by huge, multilane roads practically impossible for a pedestrian to navigate, at least the way I approached it, admittedly in a car. I found it appalling, and hope never to find myself there again.

This is about the best post you've ever written.

I could not agree more: They're developments, not districts.

You can make a case for Reston and Columbia being towns, however.

[DaveO]

All of them are developments. Cash rules. Other features may exist to greater or lesser degrees.

[The Hersch]

This is about the best post you've ever written.

I could not agree more: They're developments, not districts.

You can make a case for Reston and Columbia being towns, however.

Really? Really? I can't imagine why you'd think that is among my best posts, but I will accept the compliment, as I have no other gracious course open to me. (I've already spent more time and care on this post than on the one you praise.)

Reston and Columbia are planned towns; they're not shopping malls masquerading as something else. The city of Washington is a planned town, which I love rather openly, to say the least.

[darkstar965]

Really? Really? I can't imagine why you'd think that is among my best posts, but I will accept the compliment, as I have no other gracious course open to me. (I've already spent more time and care on this post than on the one you praise.)

Reston and Columbia are planned towns; they're not shopping malls masquerading as something else. The city of Washington is a planned town, which I love rather openly, to say the least.

I can't imagine that as your best post either. It's a fine post to be sure with a clear, strong and well written point of view but you do that consistently (very much more praise). Maybe Don just agreed particularly strongly with the view?

I'd respectfully disagree with your conclusion but not with your observations.

Agree it, and virtually all like it (including RTC) are developments designed to yield high financial returns to the developers and business owners by aggregating customers and enabling extensive cross selling of services and products. I also love DC, its character, its design, its history and its many and growing options for food, art, outdoor spaces, sport and all the rest.

Where I diverge is on the Mosaic. While I agree any "design" and the layout for cars and pedestrians seems, at best, an afterthought, it is a compelling collection of quality businesses and that, simply, is why I've probably been a dozen or more times.

There aren't enough theaters in the region showing interesting foreign and independent films and the Angelika is a huge, modern and comfortable cinema that does. Still not sure how I feel about Gypsy Soul but I am a fan of RJ's cooking talent and also quite like Four Sisters. Dolcezza is still one of the best gelato shops in the US and has an outpost there. Timothy Paul is one of the more interesting rug and furniture merchants in the region. His original shop on 14th preceded the somewhat unfortunate 14th St renaissance by several years. Jason Andelman's Artisan Chocolates. More examples to be sure but you get the point.

I dislike RTC intensely not because it's chaotic, crowded and poorly designed. Rather, I don't go there because, with just a couple of exceptions like Passionfish, the options there are mediocre and thoroughly uninteresting.

Maybe this is somewhat generational or, at least, reflective of different expectations for such commercial clusters?

[The Hersch]

Darkstar: I think you're conflating Reston with Reston Town Center. I haven't been to Reston in at least 30 years, so I have no idea what it's like out there these days, but the original Reston development formed the vanguard of mid-20th-century planned communities, and was widely considered the best example of it in the U.S., if not the world, when it started taking shape in 1964. Columbia MD was a similar planned community that started being built slightly later. Reston Town Center is a commercial development that came along much later, sort of as a growth or perhaps tumor on Reston proper.

There may well be some excellent businesses in the Mosaic "District", and if they are excellent I wish them well. Maybe if I lived out that way I would patronize them. But the place itself doesn't tempt me to return from my Foggy Bottom headquarters.

[darkstar965]

Darkstar: I think you're conflating Reston with Reston Town Center. I haven't been to Reston in at least 30 years, so I have no idea what it's like out there these days, but the original Reston development formed the vanguard of mid-20th-century planned communities, and was widely considered the best example of it in the U.S., if not the world, when it started taking shape in 1964. Columbia MD was a similar planned community that started being built slightly later. Reston Town Center is a commercial development that came along much later, sort of as a growth or perhaps tumor on Reston proper.

There may well be some excellent businesses in the Mosaic "District", and if they are excellent I wish them well. Maybe if I lived out that way I would patronize them. But the place itself doesn't tempt me to return from my Foggy Bottom headquarters.

You're correct about the conflation. I do tend to group RTC with Mosaic since both are planned outdoor malls of sorts, one higher end/better than the other.

Interesting that "excellent businesses" aren't enough to prompt your travel. For a 20 minute or so drive, I gladly make trips for great food or, in the case of Mosaic, a night out incorporating an excellent dinner and film, maybe with some gelato to,top things off. Of course, I'm also out that way on occasion for work or other reasons so not always a special trip to do a Mosaic stop.

[DaveO]

To put some more perspective on The Hersch's comment about Reston being very different than Reston Town Center and other tight developments of its ilk:

Reston has a total population per the 2010 census of about 58,000;   Columbia, MD has a total population of about 100,000.  Columbia is almost twice the physical size of Reston.  Reston is a relatively large community at over 17.4 square miles.  Its a community, not just a tight small highly commercial real estate

While in college I focused on planning and being proximate to these communities they were my labs and I produced a lot of "student work" on them.

Really startling to look at them roughly 50 years after they were conceived and a little more than 40 years when I studied them.  Reston had a census population of 5700 in 1970 and Columbia a census population of 8800.  By 1980 Columbia was at 53,000 and Reston at 36,000.   The growth continued in subsequent decades.

As "planned communities" they both struggled financially in early years.  The original buyers simply purchased a ton of land with a lot of interest on it and they couldn't sell off the land or develop it fast enough to make it work financially in its early years.   Both were developed with significant "social elements" in mind.  These were deeply embedded in the plans.

Reston Town Center is an entirely different animal.  Its the commercial dining/entertainment shopping focus in Western Fairfax and its surroundings.  Its a hub of a populous and busy area.  Currently Reston has about 20 million sq feet of office space and submarkets to the West and SouthWest have another 20 million square feet.  That is a relatively enormous amt of suburban office space and office workers in that subregion....and Reston Town Center is the Happy Hour focus of it all.

[Al Dente]

We're not dead, we're just Reston.

[DonRocks]

We're not dead, we're just Reston.

Instead of a Village Idiot, they have a Town Centeur (Reston).

[DonRocks]

That dinner menu looks a bit uninspired considering the talent in the kitchen.  Maybe starting slow and building up to something more exciting?

This sounds reasonable - Vienna needs to prove itself, and I think it can, and will. Although I have absolutely no information, I suspect Jonathan might be trying to "prime" Vienna before yanking out his Akaushi in public.

If Rogue 24Gypsy Soul is struggling (and I have no reason to believe it is), it's only because it's thrown into what is essentially a strip mall.

Yet, Founding Farmers is succeeding where the *VASTLY* superior Inox failed, and it isn't because of the Metro; it's because Americans don't know what good food is.

2941 has always been supported by a *lot* of money (speaking of which, it has been far, far too long), and Restaurant Eve was the first restaurant in town to pierce the $50 barrier for an app+entree, and seemed full most nights. We (Northern Virginia) needed Inox to come along and fail, I hate to say, in order to pave the way for some decent places in the future. Krinn, Mathieson, Wabeck, and Pagsibigan (*) in one restaurant, with others, now locally famous in the industry, brought in as rookies ... and this restaurant didn't have lines every night? You've got to be kidding me. It was one visit away from being raised to Bold in the Dining Guide, and will be remembered (by me, anyway) as one of the absolute greatest restaurants in the city during its time, albeit also one of the most dysfunctional, but that's insider info.

(*) Ferhat Yalcin and Tom Brown are but two of her and Tom Power's protégés, and I suspect both would say, without hesitation, that they're grateful to her.

[RJ Cooper]

If Rogue 24Gypsy Soul is struggling (and I have no reason to believe it is), it's only because it's thrown into what is essentially a strip mall.

Rogue 24 is in an alley Don......Hope your referring to Gypsy Soul.......We have had to close for lunch. No volume.  And our check average isn't 14 bucks.........

[DonRocks]

Rogue 24 is in an alley Don......Hope your referring to Gypsy Soul.......We have had to close for lunch. No volume.  And our check average isn't 14 bucks.........

Yes of course. My apologies.

This is something for restaurants in "mixed-use 'Districts'" like Mosaic to think about: If one of the selling points is "Live here, and walk to dinner!", then unless you telecommute, you're going to be elsewhere for lunch, and the development will be a ghost town.

As far as I can see, this is a permanent and intractable problem. RJ, if you can see a way around that issue, I'd be curious about your take on things. The obvious answer (to me, anyway) is for the "District" to have businesses that will bring people into work, and that way, people will need a place to eat during lunch. But in order to do this, developers have to sell the "District" as a place to live, a place to work, a place to own a business, and pretty much a self-contained development on Mars which satisfies all possible human needs. Have you ever noticed the sketches for these places have at least one smiling bicyclist gently peddling through town, as others walk carrying backpacks and briefcases? There's generally one or two cars somewhere in the picture too, but everybody is smiling. And the stroller - there's always someone pushing a stroller. And it's a sunny day, and there's plenty of greenery including trees and flowers. Like something straight out of a Norman Rockwell painting, but with integration as a given, not a point of controversy. It's all very lovely. I want to see one of these sketches where a cyclist just got doored, and is having a screaming match with the driver of the car.

(Never let it be said that I can't go "clean.")

[Destruya]

Mosaic's really risky.  I would've loved to be a fly on the wall during the urban planning stage.

"So, let me get this straight.  You want to take the spot of land where Salvadorean gangs once hacked people to death with machetes and turn it into a Yuppie Heaven?"

"Pretty much, yeah."

"So...assuming you can get the hobos and ultra-violent Salvadorean gangs out, what are you going to do about the fact that Merrifield is one of the ugliest fucking places in the area?"

"We're gonna build high enough buildings that when you're in the center of the 'district' that you're unable to see all the depressing commercial/industrial-zoned land.  And if the place really takes off, we'll just buy up everything and turn it into a new Reston Town Center."

"But what about the people living in the Yuppie Containers whose windows face the depressing C/I-zoned land?"

"We'll just charge less for those units."

[darkstar965]

Yes of course. My apologies.

This is something for restaurants in "mixed-use 'Districts'" like Mosaic to think about: If one of the selling points is "Live here, and walk to dinner!", then unless you telecommute, you're going to be elsewhere for lunch, and the development will be a ghost town.

As far as I can see, this is a permanent and intractable problem...

Might be apples and oranges but I get out to Four Sisters maybe once every 6-8 weeks for lunch. They've always offered it and usually have a decent crowd. Have no idea what the actual financial success or failure of the midday time is for them but has endured so that's something. Lower price point? Visible from the traffic-light-festooned expressway? More established so bigger following? Something else? Can literally walk from Four Sisters to Gypsy Soul in about 2-3 minutes.

[Lary]

Yes of course. My apologies.

This is something for restaurants in "mixed-use 'Districts'" like Mosaic to think about: If one of the selling points is "Live here, and walk to dinner!", then unless you telecommute, you're going to be elsewhere for lunch, and the development will be a ghost town.

As far as I can see, this is a permanent and intractable problem. RJ, if you can see a way around that issue, I'd be curious about your take on things. The obvious answer (to me, anyway) is for the "District" to have businesses that will bring people into work, and that way, people will need a place to eat during lunch. But in order to do this, developers have to sell the "District" as a place to live, a place to work, a place to own a business, and pretty much a self-contained development on Mars which satisfies all possible human needs. Have you ever noticed the sketches for these places have at least one smiling bicyclist gently peddling through town, as others walk carrying backpacks and briefcases? There's generally one or two cars somewhere in the picture too, but everybody is smiling. And the stroller - there's always someone pushing a stroller. And it's a sunny day, and there's plenty of greenery including trees and flowers. Like something straight out of a Norman Rockwell painting, but with integration as a given, not a point of controversy. It's all very lovely. I want to see one of these sketches where a cyclist just got doored, and is having a screaming match with the driver of the car.

(Never let it be said that I can't go "clean.")

Mosaic's really risky.  I would've loved to be a fly on the wall during the urban planning stage.

"So, let me get this straight.  You want to take the spot of land where Salvadorean gangs once hacked people to death with machetes and turn it into a Yuppie Heaven?"

"Pretty much, yeah."

"So...assuming you can get the hobos and ultra-violent Salvadorean gangs out, what are you going to do about the fact that Merrifield is one of the ugliest fucking places in the area?"

"We're gonna build high enough buildings that when you're in the center of the 'district' that you're unable to see all the depressing commercial/industrial-zoned land.  And if the place really takes off, we'll just buy up everything and turn it into a new Reston Town Center."

"But what about the people living in the Yuppie Containers whose windows face the depressing C/I-zoned land?"

"We'll just charge less for those units."

I am not crazy about shiny new stuff but I like Mosaic. I've been coming to merrifield since the early 90s to see movies and record music and eat at the then-exotic taco bell, never ran across many hobos or hackings but it was always such a barren wasteland that begged to be fixed up. Now, Erica and I are there almost every day since we live down the street. To their credit, at least the Edens folks were/are focused on bringing in a significant amount of local restauranteurs (or restaurant groups' replicants) to their little fake city.

As a frequenter of many establishments in Mosaic, there is NOT a lack of activity in the daytime even during the week. The masses just all prefer to wait in line for a cardboard bowl of lunch instead of sitting down for a quality meal. I've spent the same amount of money on a cava bowl (admittedly with upcharge for double meat, fucking hungry over here) as a gigantic sandwich and chips at Gypsy Soul. The amount of time spent standing in the lunch line at a (clenches teeth) "fast casual" restaurant, finding a cafeteria table amongst the strollers to sit to shovel food in your mouth while staring at your phone is not significantly less than a full service restaurant meal. We don't go out to dinner too much so are bummed to lose a great restaurant option for lunch.

[DonRocks]

I've been to the so-called Mosaic District once, about three months ago, I think. It is not a "district". Where do they get that shit? It is a "development". What struck me immediately, such that I said it aloud to myself when I arrived, and then again to my companions I met for lunch, was "all the disadvantages of the city". It's a suburban mall made up to look like an urban shopping area that was not designed, even though obviously it was designed. That is, it's sort of Shirlington, except fucked up. The roads and traffic patterns make no sense, the various elements of the place don't align with each other in a harmonious way, it all seems accidental, except somebody planned it out in advance to work this way. And though it's supposedly transit friendly, it's surrounded by huge, multilane roads practically impossible for a pedestrian to navigate, at least the way I approached it, admittedly in a car. I found it appalling, and hope never to find myself there again.

This is about the best post you've ever written.

I could not agree more: They're developments, not districts.

You can make a case for Reston and Columbia being towns, however.

Really? Really? I can't imagine why you'd think that is among my best posts, but I will accept the compliment, as I have no other gracious course open to me. (I've already spent more time and care on this post than on the one you praise.)

Reston and Columbia are planned towns; they're not shopping malls masquerading as something else. The city of Washington is a planned town, which I love rather openly, to say the least.

Because despite its brevity, your post hit the nail on the head, and (if you'll forgive two dead metaphors in one sentence) is spot-on in its description of these things as "developments," not "communities" - a description which I will forever take with me, and use whenever I discuss them - something all our would-be supporters can be doing with 14UP in order to support the website.

[DaveO]

To put some more perspective on The Hersch's comment about Reston being very different than Reston Town Center and other tight developments of its ilk:

Reston has a total population per the 2010 census of about 58,000;   Columbia, MD has a total population of about 100,000.  Columbia is almost twice the physical size of Reston.  Reston is a relatively large community at over 17.4 square miles.  Its a community, not just a tight small highly commercial real estate

While in college I focused on planning and being proximate to these communities they were my labs and I produced a lot of "student work" on them.

Really startling to look at them roughly 50 years after they were conceived and a little more than 40 years when I studied them.  Reston had a census population of 5700 in 1970 and Columbia a census population of 8800.  By 1980 Columbia was at 53,000 and Reston at 36,000.   The growth continued in subsequent decades.

As "planned communities" they both struggled financially in early years.  The original buyers simply purchased a ton of land with a lot of interest on it and they couldn't sell off the land or develop it fast enough to make it work financially in its early years.   Both were developed with significant "social elements" in mind.  These were deeply embedded in the plans.

Reston Town Center is an entirely different animal.  Its the commercial dining/entertainment shopping focus in Western Fairfax and its surroundings.  Its a hub of a populous and busy area.  Currently Reston has about 20 million sq feet of office space and submarkets to the West and SouthWest have another 20 million square feet.  That is a relatively enormous amt of suburban office space and office workers in that subregion....and Reston Town Center is the Happy Hour focus of it all.

The founder of Reston, Robert E Simon passed away the other day at age 101.  Per the article he started planning Reston around 1960, which would predate the initial planning of  Columbia, MD.   He lived in Reston during his latter years and for quite a long time.  In a 2009 interview he considered current Reston in its entirety to be a pretty good reflection of the initial plans and ideas.  That is not just Reston town center but the community in its entirety.    (BTW:  Reston contains about 20 million square feet of office space,*(page 13) making it one of the largest areas of suburban office space anywhere in the nation (nearby Tysons is larger) and in fact having more office space than quite a number of established cities)

*that ongoing historical chart might easily be the best longest term historical chart of the commercial office space anywhere in the nation.

[DonRocks]

Gypsy Soul has closed, and Ovvio Osteria has gone through at least two chef changes. Now, we have these two most recent posts (the linked one, and the one before it) about sparse customer density at Brine. These are the three aces in the Mosaic hole.

Is it possible that All-In-One developers are making crucial errors?

* That residents in these neighborhoods aren't Don Rockwell, and actually, gulp, cook, instead of strolling down the block to eat out every single meal?

* That the Great Recession of Dec, 2007 has made permanent (or, at least very long-lasting) changes to the dining habits of America? I don't care *what* restaurant critics write; I see with my very own eyes that fine dining (or, at least "finer dining") has taken an enormous hit. Could it be that the developers and investors in these communities - who obviously weren't *as* affected by the recession as the average American - have made the same mistake that people who ran up the value of the baseball card market made twenty years ago? That younger people don't *care* what these developers and investors do, or how they live, or what they believe in, or loved as children? Hence, the crash (and it's a permanent crash) in the baseball card market?

Look at the changes at the restaurants in Rockville Town Square, which was planned out before the Great Recession began. Is this not a cautionary tale for all to see?

I understand that Kapnos Kouzina is moving in, and people may think it's the same level of dining as Gypsy Soul, but it isn't. Also, the illogical power of the "celebrity chef" (and make no mistake, TV chefs are *much* more popular than James Beard Award chefs) has created a very powerful bump - whether or not it's long term is anyone's guess: I do not have a good grasp of this particular situation, and therefore don't feel comfortable in predicting how long chefs like Mike Isabella can ride this wave. (Think about this: How often do you hear about Graffiato these days? Or Spike Mendelsohn? Every dog has its day. As opinionated as I can be, I just do not know, nor do I feel comfortable in making any sort of predictions based on what I see because the entire phenomenon goes against the nature of logic.) Remember how just a few short years ago, West End Bistro (which many people have now never even heard of) and Ray's The Steaks and Ray's Hell-Burger seemed like invincible juggernauts? Then along came Graffiato and Little Serow, and now it's Kapnos and Rose's Luxury. Does anyone know if Little Serow still has lines every night? Or Georgetown Cupcake? If not, then it's a safe bet that the Rose's phenomenon will come to an end as well. Of these restaurants I have listed, there are many chefs and owners involved whom I like and respect - this is not some sort of "licking my chops" observation; it's merely an observation and some educated-guess-type comments. I suspect some of these places, even though they're no longer media darlings, are still doing just fine, and I hope they are, and I wish every single one of them the best of success.

Has Fiola Mare become the new Cafe Milano? Will the tandem of Kinship and Métier have enough pull to resurrect fine dining in the area? I was at Rogue 24 two weeks ago, and it was sold out, which delighted me to no end, because despite what you (don't) read about it, it really *is* one of the very greatest restaurants in this city, and I'm sorry to say that it's too sophisticated for its demographic. But does any of this even matter, and is all of this enough?

And what the hell am I even talking about?

I'll say one thing for myself: When I get going on a stream-of-consciousness post, I may make some good points along the way, but then I look up, and find myself standing in some strange woods that I don't even recognize.

[DrXmus]

I'll say one thing for myself: When I get going on a stream-of-consciousness post, I may make some good points along the way, but then I look up, and find myself standing in some strange woods that I don't even recognize.

Posts at 1:29a tend to be like this.

I wasn't sure where to post this, but I guess I'll put it in this here, rather than the Dining in Merrifield thread. Last Thursday, I checked open Table for reservations nearby on Saturday at 7. It's prime time, I'm thinking, and I didn't expect many options. To my surprise, almost every restaurant in Merrifield and Vienna (including Maple Ave) had openings if not at 7, then 15 minutes before or after. We ended up eating at DGS Delicatessen (meh) and there were open tables through our entire meal.

[DaveO]

I wasn't sure where to post this, but I guess I'll put it in this here, rather than the Dining in Merrifield thread. Last Thursday, I checked open Table for reservations nearby on Saturday at 7. It's prime time, I'm thinking, and I didn't expect many options. To my surprise, almost every restaurant in Merrifield and Vienna (including Maple Ave) had openings if not at 7, then 15 minutes before or after. We ended up eating at DGS Delicatessen (meh) and there were open tables through our entire meal.

I bet Sweetwater was busy.

[JPW]

I bet Sweetwater was busy.

Amen. Every time that I have been out there, the "big box" restaurants are packed. The demos of single 20-somethings who live in Mosaic and the families from nearby middle-class suburbs who visit just do not lend themselves to higher end dining.

[Tweaked]

I bet Sweetwater was busy.

When you serve the "World's Greatest Fajitas" of course you're going to be packed!

[astrid]

In my experience with trying to schedule meals with friends, the biggest impediment to fine dining are young children.  I wonder if the demographics of the Mosaic District makes it less friendly for fine dining establishments.

Having said that - the location/size/focus of Brine can't help matters.  Based on our one visit there, Brine seems much emptier than any of our visits to B Side or Gypsy Soul, even though those two restaurants should be attracting a similar audience.  Red Apron and MOM both seem bustling, so residents seem willing to spend money on pricy grocery items.

[porcupine]

In reference to DC City Center:

I can't get used to this alley being here; nonetheless, I love the area, and hope that DC can have about twenty more like it in the future. After the parking gods smiled upon me, I strolled into the bar at Centrolina...

Why do you love the area and why do you want to see more like it?  (Obviously I have an opinion here but I'd like to know your thoughts before I go on about it.)

[DonRocks]

In reference to DC City Center:

Why do you love the area and why do you want to see more like it?  (Obviously I have an opinion here but I'd like to know your thoughts before I go on about it.)

I like pedestrian streets, and also it breaks up the dreary monolith of downtown.

[DaveO]

In reference to DC City Center:

Why do you love the area and why do you want to see more like it?  (Obviously I have an opinion here but I'd like to know your thoughts before I go on about it.)

I like pedestrian streets, and also it breaks up the dreary monolith of downtown.

The question and response led me to Jane Jacobs and her best known book, The Death and Life of Great American Cities, published in 1961.  Jacobs was a profound and important thought leader on urban vitality, and a leading protester and fighter against large scale urban renewal projects including highways that work their way through cities and destroy neighborhoods.   Her major laboratory was Greenwich Village in NYC.

She covers many topics in that book and other writings, but with regard to Greenwich Village and the vitality it manifested in those days she wrote about the "chaotic" development that created neighborhoods with residential, retail, office, and even manufacturing.   She wrote about the importance and vitality of sidewalks and neighborhoods.   She even suggested "optimal sidewalk depths".   She was a huge believer and defender of natural urban neighborhoods.

Developers of recent times often try to create active streetscapes.   They do it in cities and they do it suburbs.  Sometimes it works.  Sometimes it doesn't.  Its not natural, as Jacobs describes the process, but manufactured by developers that purchase vast swaths of land, but they do try and recreate vital neighborhoods with walk around traffic.   In fact with the failures  and abandonment of malls, developers try and recreate that retail (and possibly other mixes) on the same site with streetscapes.  I believe that is the goal of Landmark in Alexandria and on the site of the Ballston Mall.