Corned Beef on Bagels

[DonRocks]

Ok, for my uncle, what is the best in the DC area right now?  AND if he wants a pastrami or corned beef sandwich, should I send him somewhere else, and where to?  .

The last time I went through this, I got corned beef from Deli City and put it on a Bullfrog Bagel (they're closer than you think). I don't understand why more people don't eat corned beef (or pastrami) and cream cheese on a sesame (or poppy) bagel, instead of using lousy, industrial rye bread. I did the same thing in Montreal with Schwartz's and St. Viader on my last night there - they were the only places I visited twice during a one-week visit, and I chose to have that combination in my hotel room, with a bottle of Grí¼ner Veltliner, instead of going to yet another restaurant - it was wonderful.

[pras]

I don't understand why more people don't eat corned beef (or pastrami) and cream cheese on a sesame (or poppy) bagel, instead of using lousy, industrial rye bread. 

While I don't keep kosher and love a good cheese burger or cheese steak (and shrimp, crabs, lobster .............), the thought of eating cream cheese and corned beef or (pastrami (the king of deli meats)) is sacrilegious to me (and I would guess others on here).

[DonRocks]

While I don't keep kosher and love a good cheese burger or cheese steak (and shrimp, crabs, lobster .............), the thought of eating cream cheese and corned beef or (pastrami (the king of deli meats)) is sacrilegious to me (and I would guess others on here).

Try it sometime! (Not too much cream cheese.)

[pras]

Try it sometime! (Not too much cream cheese.)

Bagel, some sort of smoked fish, cream cheese, and that's about it for me.

[DonRocks]

Bagel, some sort of smoked fish, cream cheese, and that's about it for me.

There's very little practical difference! Also, think of a baked potato with sour cream and bacon, or a roast beef sandwich with horseradish cream, or raita with Indian goat curry and a bite of naan - same three things (sort of).

[DaveO]

 I don't understand why more people don't eat corned beef (or pastrami) and cream cheese on a sesame (or poppy) bagel, instead of using lousy, industrial rye bread. 

I find that one tough too.  I'm sure its cultural.  But pastrami and corned beef sandwiches are infinitely better with thick slices.  Put thick slices on a more traditional bagel such as sesame or poppy (that better be crusty on outside chewy on inside) and you have one incredibly thick sandwich.  Too thick in my book.  A bagel, lox, cream cheese, and a lot of whitefish....you can still crunch the insides of that "bad boy" down inside the thick bagel....but thick corned beef or pastrami...uh oh.  I think you have a serious jaw buster.

Cream cheese and pastrami (or corned beef)....oh man....from a cultural perspective that is "almost" sacrilegious.   .  I don't know.  Maybe its like fusion.  Maybe its worth a one second try, while eating in a basement five thousand miles away far hidden from anyone that monitors my cultural history.

[JSnake]

Too thick? Nonsense!

[DonRocks]

I find that one tough too.  I'm sure its cultural.  But pastrami and corned beef sandwiches are infinitely better with thick slices.  Put thick slices on a more traditional bagel such as sesame or poppy (that better be crusty on outside chewy on inside) and you have one incredibly thick sandwich.  Too thick in my book.  A bagel, lox, cream cheese, and a lot of whitefish....you can still crunch the insides of that "bad boy" down inside the thick bagel....but thick corned beef or pastrami...uh oh.  I think you have a serious jaw buster.

Cream cheese and pastrami (or corned beef)....oh man....from a cultural perspective that is "almost" sacrilegious.   .  I don't know.  Maybe its like fusion.  Maybe its worth a one second try, while eating in a basement five thousand miles away far hidden from anyone that monitors my cultural history.

Depends on how many slices you put on - the ones I make are no thicker than any other sandwich. I'm actually kind of surprised that nobody else has reported trying this because it's kind of awesome. Has nobody ever snuck a strip of bacon on their bagel with cream cheese at a cheesy hotel breakfast?

Meh, my dad liked a slice of cheddar cheese on his apple pie - I thought it sounded disgusting. Then I tried it, and darned if it wasn't good. Even still, I haven't had it in years, and even though I used to eat it all the time, it sounds kind of gross to me now.

Maple syrup on scrapple, anyone?

[ALB]

I think many of us- even if we are not kosher- would never put ANY kind of cheese/dairy on a corned beef/pastrami sandwich. That isn't even an option at Jewish delis. Without considering why... it just feels so wrong.

turkey sure, but that is not in the culinary history of our people.

wait now I'm thinking about a reuben. forget my argment other than- it just sounds wrong!

[DonRocks]

On 10/23/2015 at 10:06 PM, ALB said:

I think many of us- even if we are not kosher- would never put ANY kind of cheese/dairy on a corned beef/pastrami sandwich. That isn't even an option at Jewish delis. Without considering why... it just feels so wrong.

turkey sure, but that is not in the culinary history of our people.

wait now I'm thinking about a reuben. forget my argment other than- it just sounds wrong!

This whole conversation is fascinating to me - I never once thought I was doing something heretical.

 What about a jambon beurre?

[squidsdc]

I'm with Don here. One of my staples growing up was bologna and cream cheese on a bagel. And when we had corned beef from the deli, that too. Not kosher, but we didn't keep kosher, and it's not far-fetched. And it is darned tasty. Also a fan of cheddar on apple and maple syrup on sausage. I think it comes from my Dad's side of the family and he's from Brooklyn.

[bookluvingbabe]

On 10/23/2015 at 10:27 PM, DonRocks said:

This whole conversation is fascinating to me - I never once thought I was doing something heretical.

 What about a jambon beurre?

 I don't eat jambon beurre at the Jewish deli...

 My family wasn't very observant and I was in college before I had a cheeseburger or a steak and cheese sandwich.  (The steak and cheese is at least partially being from the midwest...)  We had bacon mashed potatoes at our wedding and had to put up a sign that it was turkey bacon.  I think for many of us there are lingering cultural and religious taboos that we don't even think about 99.99 percent of the time.  My oldest nephew could not understand why his parents were appalled when his single request for his bar mitzvah was shrimp cocktail. 

 I don't object to the mixing of the cream cheese with the meat.  I object to the idea of making it anything less than a vehicle for the perfect schmear of cream cheese or white salad.  Bagels are a breakfast food!

[Genevieve]

I'm with Don here. One of my staples growing up was bologna and cream cheese on a bagel. And when we had corned beef from the deli, that too. Not kosher, but we didn't keep kosher, and it's not far-fetched. And it is darned tasty. Also a fan of cheddar on apple and maple syrup on sausage. I think it comes from my Dad's side of the family and he's from Brooklyn.

Oh hey, I'm not the only person who ate bologna and cream cheese growing up! (Though I ate it on white bread - would've been better on a bagel.)  Not something I've eaten since elementary school, though.

For deli food, I'm not a typical customer - grew up Jewish in this area, but I've never been a fan of traditional Jewish deli meats like corned beef and pastrami, and I can't stand caraway seeds so I've never liked rye bread. I love good-quality turkey (like Earl's has) but otherwise can do without deli meats.  When I go to New York (or Florida) and go to a deli, I'm looking for good matzoh ball soup, latkes, whitefish salad, and pickles.  Locally, I satisfy the pickle craving at Brooklyn Bagel Deli in Arlington, and they have good whitefish too. (It's not a Jewish deli and not a meat specialist, but we ordered from them for a post-bar mitzvah brunch, and everyone liked the food: great bagels from NYC, several kinds of cream cheese, good platters with whitefish salad and lox and turkey and salami and egg salad, nice mixed greens salad, wonderful pickles, and excellent rugelach.) Since I'm not a pastrami or corned beef eater, I've never ordered those there. We often get their bagels, cream cheese, whitefish, pickles, and rugelach if we're having a family gathering.

Also, my mom says there's a pickle seller at the Courthouse Farmers' Market with fantastic pickles.

[Tweaked]

As part of the gentiles, I'm with Don. Sounds damn tasty.

[JPW]

Also, my mom says there's a pickle seller at the Courthouse Farmers' Market with fantastic pickles.

There are several decent pickle vendors in DC, but one that stands heads and shoulders above any other vendor of fermented vegetables. Number 1 sons. Ask the proprietor for the best wine pairings.

[DanielK]

I've been getting progressively more perplexed as to why more and more people have chimed in, saying the same thing. Finally, I checked:

"Kashrut: Jewish Dietary Laws" on jewfaq.org

And I'm just now realizing that what I said is *literally* sacrilegious - I had absolutely no idea! I thought that people here had been using the term "sacrilegious" in a lighthearted context, and I apologize if anyone took offense to my ignorance - I promise it was not my intent to disrespect the Kashrut.

Out of respect, I'm moving my post out of this thread and into Shopping and Cooking, and I'm also going to make a rare exception by editing the content of Keith's post, removing the excerpt, and placing the other posts on this topic in the Shopping and Cooking forum - I think this thread is best left kosher.

I assure you that under no circumstances was your post offensive, Don. Even an observant Jew wouldn't object to others eating "treif."

In my family, the joke is that we should eat bacon wrapped shrimp with cheese, to bust all the kashrut at once.

Also, while you won't find a Reuben in a kosher deli, you certainly find them in the Jewish delis.

My objection to cream cheese on corned beef is that it sounds awful, not because it's sacreligious.

[DonRocks]

My objection to cream cheese on corned beef is that it sounds awful, not because it's sacreligious.

[i had removed all references from this thread.  I don't feel guilty or anything because it was totally innocent, but now I at least know better - honestly, I'm pretty surprised I didn't know this before.]

[DaveO]

I assure you that under no circumstances was your post offensive, Don. Even an observant Jew wouldn't object to others eating "treif."

In my family, the joke is that we should eat bacon wrapped shrimp with cheese, to bust all the kashrut at once.

Also, while you won't find a Reuben in a kosher deli, you certainly find them in the Jewish delis.

My objection to cream cheese on corned beef is that it sounds awful, not because it's sacreligious.

Agree with DanielK on this.  Variations might sound terrible to those raised in the "tribe" and immersed in various traditions but who is to say what others want or enjoy eating.

[KeithA]

I agree with the others per my own comment that it just sounds fundamentally wrong from a cultural/tribal perspective- not offensive.  As for Jewish delis and kashrut - there are only a small number which are kosher and it has been that way for a LOOOONG time in America.  Hence the deli classic - the reuben. So don't worry about offense.  It would be the same as someone eating shrimp parm - just seems wrong but the Goldbergs like it.

[DonRocks]

I wholeheartedly believe that nobody took any offense to my posts, but I hold myself to a higher standard, and I openly respect all religious customs and beliefs (these fuckwads notwithstanding (*)). Anyway, I'd feel more comfortable talking about co-mingling meat and dairy *outside* of a Jewish Deli thread, since the concept really has nothing to do with Jewish Delis.

To summarize: Don't worry about it - I'm not! And thanks for your reassurances.

Cheers,

Rocks