Risotto

[MsDiPesto]

Christopher Kimball's magazines and tv shows are serious money-making enterprises, and not much is shared for free via the web. I couldn't find the video you refer to, so I don't know what technique for cleaning leeks it illustrates. I must say that some of the instructions for cleaning leeks I've seen are idiotic, though, especially the ones that tell you to chop the leeks and then dump all the chopped bits into a big bowl of water. I hope the ATK video doesn't suggest that approach. The best (or what I would call the correct) method for cleaning leeks is illustrated in this Jacques Pépin video. The trimming and cleaning of the leek begins at about 4:30. I don't actually trim leeks the way Jacques does, but his method for cleaning them is so fast and so easy, I would never do it any other way.

Actually it was, but I had Trader Joe's pre-chopped frozen leeks, so it was fairly easy.

[lperry]

^ Sara Moulton showed another method on her show.  She chopped them up, then put the chopped leeks in a bowl of water, swished them around, then let them soak while she prepped the other ingredients, then lifted them out into the pot.  The dirt releases and drops to the bottom of the bowl. 

[Bart]

Two questions:

1.  What is the proper consistency for risotto?  On Top Chef Tom Coliccio says is should be runny and spread/flow over the plate when you put it down (not sit up in a pile like rice).

2.  Do you have to constantly stir it the entire time you cook it?  I've heard that said many times, but recently I read an article or website or recipe that said something like "contrary to popular opinion you DO NOT have to constantly stir it to make a proper risotto.  I learned how to make it the proper way in Italy and........"

[DonRocks]

Two questions:

1.  What is the proper consistency for risotto?  On Top Chef Tom Coliccio says is should be runny and spread/flow over the plate when you put it down (not sit up in a pile like rice).

2.  Do you have to constantly stir it the entire time you cook it?  I've heard that said many times, but recently I read an article or website or recipe that said something like "contrary to popular opinion you DO NOT have to constantly stir it to make a proper risotto.  I learned how to make it the proper way in Italy and........"

I'm no expert, but I remember John Wabeck making what he called a "French-styled risotto" which was extremely creamy and soft - it was not my preferred style, and I never ordered it a second time.

Assuming the rice "standing at attention," slightly undercooked when it's served, and completing its cooking during the first few bites, is traditional "Italian," that is the style I prefer. And yes, you have to constantly stir it, especially towards the end - there are two critical moments of doneness: one when you have to really start paying attention to the stirring (you can't chat with your friends in the kitchen quite as much), and another when you have to time its finish, almost to the second. The stock (or whatever you're adding) is added a little at a time during the cooking - towards the end, the rice starts to absorb the liquid at a much faster rate, so that's another thing to worry about.

I alerted Jim G to this thread yesterday, and got this email last night:

You should add that your son stirred the risotto too a couple of times (when he was what? 8-10?), and he did as good a job as you did.

[Choirgirl21]

Assuming the rice "standing at attention," slightly undercooked when it's served, and completing its cooking during the first few bites, is traditional "Italian," that is the style I prefer.

This is exactly what I was served for the pear & cheese dish in Rome. I was almost afraid it was undercooked when it arrived - the rice was almost slightly separate from some of the liquid, but I continued to stir it between bites and part way in it was perfect and the liquid had been mostly absorbed. I honestly had no way of knowing whether that was "proper" or not, but it was heavenly and like nothing I've ever had here in the states.

[TedE]

2.  Do you have to constantly stir it the entire time you cook it?  I've heard that said many times, but recently I read an article or website or recipe that said something like "contrary to popular opinion you DO NOT have to constantly stir it to make a proper risotto.  I learned how to make it the proper way in Italy and........"

I think you read that right here, and I had the same thought.  Would like to know more about alternate traditional methods.

[jayandstacey]

I think you read that right here, and I had the same thought.  Would like to know more about alternate traditional methods.

I got to spend an evening in cooking class with an older woman from Italy...she was difficult to understand at times. (This is my lame attempt at credibility, that's the best I remember. She mentioned something about cooking at some particular places in Italy but I don't recall...)

Edit: Here she is.

We made then ate some really good risotto. She then handed us papers with the recipe. Generally:

- use a heavy saucepan, pre-heat oven to 450.

- saute onions, add rice and stir for 2 minutes. Add white wine, then boiling stock.

- cover risotto with aluminum foil and cook in oven for 18 minutes

- remove, add salt/pepper/lemon/parsley/parmesan. Serve.

Pretty simple and doesn't require so much stirring. I'm not saying this would beat Joe's recipe, rather that there are alternatives to constant stirring.

[jayandstacey]

Assuming the rice "standing at attention," slightly undercooked when it's served, and completing its cooking during the first few bites, is traditional "Italian," that is the style I prefer. And yes, you have to constantly stir it, especially towards the end - there are two critical moments of doneness: one when you have to really start paying attention to the stirring (you can't chat with your friends in the kitchen quite as much), and another when you have to time its finish, almost to the second. The stock (or whatever you're adding) is added a little at a time during the cooking - towards the end, the rice starts to absorb the liquid at a much faster rate, so that's another thing to worry about.

I suspect the reason for the stirring is to keep the heat sort of "flashing" - where the rice gets some heat from the pan, then steps back while other rice takes a turn. I assume the rice can't take the direct heat of a flame as it is just too much like insulation - the edge absorbs all the heat while the center stays ever cool. And I understand that some things, like my beloved scrambled eggs, require a constant touch for just this reason.

But I also wonder if the method I describe above doesn't fix that - by using a hot oven (indirect heat) and adding stock that was boiled separately - you can get all of the risotto to heat evenly and override the insulating effect.

Just a theory. Someone else here may have actual facts.

[DonRocks]

I suspect the reason for the stirring is to keep the heat sort of "flashing" - where the rice gets some heat from the pan, then steps back while other rice takes a turn. I assume the rice can't take the direct heat of a flame as it is just too much like insulation - the edge absorbs all the heat while the center stays ever cool. And I understand that some things, like my beloved scrambled eggs, require a constant touch for just this reason.

But I also wonder if the method I describe above doesn't fix that - by using a hot oven (indirect heat) and adding stock that was boiled separately - you can get all of the risotto to heat evenly and override the insulating effect.

Just a theory. Someone else here may have actual facts.

My theory is also only that: a theory. Stirring the rice, especially late in the game, allows it to heat evenly, and to absorb the cooking liquid evenly. I'm going to ask JimG to chime in, and discuss what style of risotto his is, and where he learned to make it. He is exceedingly knowledgable (not snobby at all), and should be able to tell what regional style his method is, and also list its limitations. Note: he also uses carnaroli instead of arborio - I vaguely remember him saying it's a "higher-risk, higher-reward" rice, but keep in mind, he's only making one pot for perhaps 4-8 people; it's a whole 'nother ball game in a restaurant when you're cooking for crowds - maybe risotto is best done as a home-cooked dish. I do know that the lobster risotto at Tosca is a dish that I had on three consecutive nights. No, really, I did. I'm going to ask my food-expert friend Kara Larew to chime in as well.

I hope it's neither condescending nor precious to say "thank you" to our members for making this one hell of a thread. Give yourselves a round of applause, please.

[Joe H]

My theory is also only that: a theory. Stirring the rice, especially late in the game, allows it to heat evenly, and to absorb the cooking liquid evenly. I'm going to ask JimG to chime in, and discuss what style of risotto his is, and where he learned to make it. He is exceedingly knowledgable (not snobby at all), and should be able to tell what regional style his method is, and also list its limitations. Note: he also uses carnaroli instead of arborio - I vaguely remember him saying it's a "higher-risk, higher-reward" rice, but keep in mind, he's only making one pot for perhaps 4-8 people; it's a whole 'nother ball game in a restaurant when you're cooking for crowds - maybe risotto is best done as a home-cooked dish. I do know that the lobster risotto at Tosca is a dish that I had on three consecutive nights. No, really, I did. I'm going to ask my food-expert friend Kara Larew to chime in as well.

I hope it's neither condescending nor precious to say "thank you" to our members for making this one hell of a thread. Give yourselves a round of applause, please.

Rice.  Violane nano.

Stir.  It's about texture as much as flavor.  You want to be able to "feel" each individual kernal of rice within the creamy risotto.  It's an art to make this.  Flavor plus mouthfeel.  You're not going to get this without stirring.  The pot may sit on the burner for a couple of minutes without stirring but at some point you're going to stir.  And focus on what you are stirring.

Risotto made in a wheel of Reggiano is a spectacular presentation.  I first had this in the late '90's in a candle lit room in Paris.  But it's not about a Great risotto.  It's presentation which can be memorable.

Roberto.  I had a half dozen risottos in his Laboratorio, each equalling anything I've ever had in Italy.  Roberto's Four on two trips were their equal.  On the last visit his La Tur risotto was one of the best dishes I've ever tasted.  Flavor, texture, mouthfeel-just an extraordinary dish.  (Of course I think he uses carneroli.)

Roberto.

Addendum:  years ago I entered a contest called "the best Italian chef in D. C."  First prize was $10,000 and a trip to Italy.  My entry was crab and black truffle risotto.  I was one of the ten finalists which was held before a couple of hundred people in a banquet room at Maggiano's in Tyson's Corner.  I didn't win.  Although John Harter (then, from channel seven and one of the judges) told me when it was over my dish was the best of all of them.  When I was making it I stood in the kitchen of Maggiano's and their chef came by my station and asked why I was stirring so much?  I told him I was going for texture.  He said that I didn't need to do this, I could find the texture I needed without stirring so much.

I listened to him and stopped stirring so much.  I didn't nail the creamy, individual kernal creamy texture that I wanted.

I didn't win.  I should have.  I should have kept stirring.  I would have nailed the texture.  Of course Maggiano's put the winning dish on their menu for a month and if I had won they would have had to pay someone full time to stand there and stir risotto which wasn't in their best interest.  Which is one of the reasons it is so hard to find "proper" risotto:  it is labor intensive and few kitchens can devote someone to stand there full time and stir.

I should have kept stirring.  Anyone that tells me that you can make a "proper" risotto with "proper" texture without stirring is not someone I trust.  Again, the pot may sit on the burner for a minute or two but at some point you are going to have to pick it up and study it and stir.  A lot.  For several minutes.  Incrimentally adding warm stock and letting it cook down each time.  You may do this four, five, six times.  But you are going to have to do this for the absolute best risotto.  There's a visual on knowing when to add more stock and after doing this letting it cook down for a minute or so before continuing to stir.  I come back to my point in the link I supplied above:  making risotto is an art.

I should have won that contest.

Stir.

Or, Roberto.

[mdt]

I'm no expert, but I remember John Wabeck making what he called a "French-styled risotto" which was extremely creamy and soft - it was not my preferred style, and I never ordered it a second time.

In Venice (IIRC) they serve their risotto sul onde or "on the waves" and it is a bit more soupy than what is normal.

Continuous stirring is overrated.

[Joe H]

In Venice (IIRC) they serve their risotto sul onde or "on the waves" and it is a bit more soupy than what is normal.

Continuous stirring is overrated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyQvTefwP48

is the link for Anthony Bourdain eating risotto in Burano.  What is important is that the video will show the texture of what I call a "proper" risotto.  It is very difficult to find this especially in the U. S.

[jayandstacey]

I should have won that contest.

I hereby dub thee "Joe Risotto, Earl of Arborio."

[Joe H]

I hereby dub thee "Joe Risotto, Earl of Arborio."

Google "world's best risotto" and note what the first link is.

I was told over one million hits.

[Ilaine]

Joe, it looks lovely, but I will say up front that when I make it (and I will) I will not adhere strictly to your recipe.  Gorgonzola dolce, check.  Real parm, not grana, check.  But too much butter, I think.

I love butter but with all the cheese that just seems like too much to me.

Well, maybe I should make it your way first, and then decide.  Ok, I will.

[jayandstacey]

It took me a few tries, but I followed the Pepin method for making an omelette.  The results were spectacular, resulting in a velvety dish unlike any omelette I've had elsewhere.  Really better and really different.  I'd imagine Joe's risotto is like this - the "Platonic Form" of risotto if you will. 

Having said that, I suspect that more pedestrian risotto could be made without stirring if done correctly (so, not on the stovetop with a focused heat source).   Any such versions will fall short of the benchmark - but we don't always have access to the ingredients or time.

I'm making my no-stir risotto tonight.  I hope to make Joe's and compare if possible.  I expect to enjoy both - and that they will be very different.

[jayandstacey]

I'd also note that I think there are 3 benefits that come from stirring that no other method provides:

- precise control of the liquid-rice ratio

- precise control over doneness, getting if off the heat just prior to finish

- evenness of cooking.

Like the omelette, this is a texture thing as much as anything.  To achieve the best, you have to master these elements and stirring seems the best way to reach it.

With my own no-stir recipe, I've had times where the liquid-rice ratio was just off.  It was still edible but not ideal - and I had no clue until I pulled it out.

[lperry]

Even Mark Bittman agrees: pressure cooker risotto is where it's at.  (Ducks and runs, laughing maniacally.)

[TrelayneNYC]

You don't have to stir continuously, but you do have to stir often.

As for texture, you should strive for an appearance of a "creamy" consistency without having added cream, like so:

This was for a mussel risotto from May 2012.

Another example is

a sweet coconut risotto with Meyer lemon marmalade, from March 2012 (both the mussel risotto and the coconut risotto are on the blog). Neither of those had much cream added (the coconut risotto recipe calls for 2 tablespoons heavy cream stirred in at the end), which should give you some idea of what to look for.

[Bart]

I think you read that right here, and I had the same thought.  Would like to know more about alternate traditional methods.

Hahaha!  Yep, you nailed.  You have a better memory than me.  Thanks!!

[mdt]

I'd also note that I think there are 3 benefits that come from stirring that no other method provides:

- precise control of the liquid-rice ratio

- precise control over doneness, getting if off the heat just prior to finish

- evenness of cooking.

Like the omelette, this is a texture thing as much as anything.  To achieve the best, you have to master these elements and stirring seems the best way to reach it.

With my own no-stir recipe, I've had times where the liquid-rice ratio was just off.  It was still edible but not ideal - and I had no clue until I pulled it out.

Mind you I said no need for continuous stirring, not no stirring. You do have to stir here and there.

Continuous stirring will not allow for precise control of the liquid:rice ratio, that is regulated by the amount of liquid added at regular intervals. It will not allow for precise control of over doneness, that is done by taking it off the heat at the right time. It might help with the evenness of cooking. All these items can be watched while stirring and tasting on occasion.

As for the omelette comparison, quite different animals. The stirring of the eggs helps to prevent formation of large curds to get the soft quality that can be desired.

[Ilaine]

This the link for Anthony Bourdain eating risotto in Burano.  What is important is that the video will show the texture of what I call a "proper" risotto.  It is very difficult to find this especially in the U. S.

It looks like porridge.

[Joe H]

It looks like porridge.

Whatever it looks like, it is.

Now there is a comment, "continuous stir."  That's misleading.  When I say "stir" I mean there is a lot of stirring but it is not, literally, continuous.  A great deal of this comes down to looking at the risotto and making a judgment of when to start stirring.  Someone is going to learn this from looking over a shoulder, not from reading a printed word.  I can try, but it's still visual which is why I call achieving "proper texture" an art.

Each time a ladle of stock goes into the pot I will stir a couple of times.  Then I will let it boil down for 30-45 seconds or whatever amount of time-it's judgment for knowing what it should look like.  At a certain point I will start stirring.  Then, I'll stir a lot.  I don't know about "continuous" but I'll stir a lot.  At some point most of the liquid is absorbed and I'll add more, then the process repeats itself.  Depending on the kind of risotto and the amount of stock will determine how many times you'll go through this process.

How do I know when to add more stock?  By what it looks like.  No idea of how to express this. Again, for anyone reading this, you need to make risotto a bunch of times and understand "when" to add stock, when to stir.

It's not an easy dish to make correctly.  It's technique and experience, perhaps like kneading dough.  You just learn from experience.

There are a lot of shortcuts:  all because this is a labor intensive dish and most restaurants cannot afford to have someone stand there all night stirring, judging, looking over the pot-whatever verbiage works.  Someone can make a risotto that is some percentage as good without all of the stirring.  But I am talking about "the absolute best."  "Proper" if you will which is what you would expect from walking into the restaurant in Burano that I linked above.  And have been to and had their risotto.  I must also note that the person who makes it puts on a show in the same way that a pizza maker puts on a show with tossing the dough.  In Burano it is "tossing" the creamy mass of risotto in the pot with several feet of it in the air.

But he nails the texture.

Whatever it looks like, it is.  They make a great risotto.  An "absolute best."

[Choirgirl21]

You don't have to stir continuously, but you do have to stir often.

As for texture, you should strive for an appearance of a "creamy" consistency without having added cream, like so:

a sweet coconut risotto with Meyer lemon marmalade, from March 2012 (both the mussel risotto and the coconut risotto are on the blog). Neither of those had much cream added (the coconut risotto recipe calls for 2 tablespoons heavy cream stirred in at the end), which should give you some idea of what to look for.

Hard to tell because of the shape of the bowl with the first photo, but the second appears thicker than what I had in Italy. What I had would not have stood up on its own like that if that makes sense. Mine looked more like what you see in the Bourdain video that Joe posted. This looks more like what I'm used to in restaurants in the US. Of course it's really difficult to tell from a single photo and like I said, I have no idea if what I was served was "proper" although according to the Earl of Arborio it appears I was.

[Choirgirl21]

And with your last comments Joe, my resolve to go back to Italy next year, with at least 2-3 days in Venice is confirmed. I'll expect you to chip in on my expenses.

[Joe H]

And with your last comments Joe, my resolve to go back to Italy next year, with at least 2-3 days in Venice is confirmed. I'll expect you to chip in on my expenses.

This is from a post of mine when my wife and I tried our best to eat our way through Venice in '09.

Alle Testiere does not feature risotto. In perhaps twenty visits over the years I've never had it there. This trip, with two stops five days apart, we asked Luca if we could talk him into a seafood risotto for our last meal in Venice. He said they would do it but interestingly noted that it "takes up two burners on the stove." One for the pan and one for the broth which much be ladelled warm. The other two burners service the other 22 seats of the restaurant besides ours'. There was an element of self indulgent guilt on my part in asking them to use the two burners for our risotto...

We arrived early for his first seating. Presentation was a large, shallow serving bowl with a mound of risotto nestled in the middle of each. Both were studded with shrimp, scallops, squid and other fish along with a white, creamy wine laced flavor and texture to the carneroli. A bit of steam rose from the center; I bent over and inhaled letting it waft into my nostrils. Sometimes, it is not just what food tastes like or feels like in one's mouth. It is also what it smells like. The aroma can frame the taste and the feel. Alle Testiere's risotto framed a portrait, a Master. Superb, just superb. One of the best dishes we had in the whole trip.

I love Alle Testiere.  It is one of the best restaurants anywhere on earth.  I also love Il Ridotto whose owner (and chef) is a close friend of Luca at Testiere.  But the key to the above post is the comment, "takes up two burners on the stove."  Alle Testiere has a total of four burners for the entire 24 seats of the restaurant.  One is needed for the pot that the risotto is prepared/stirred in and the other to keep the stock warm which will be ladelled into it.

Coincidentally, we were suppose to leave for Italy tonight with dinner at Il Ridotto next Monday and Alle Testiere on Tuesday.  We postponed the trip several weeks ago but this thread, and Alle Testiere and their "two burner risotto" has been on my mind for a few days.  They make a Great seafood risotto.  Even in northern Italy it's not easy to find this.  Most restaurants, as mentioned above, look for shortcuts.  Whether it's "two burners" or the person standing over them, it's a labor intensive dish to achieve the texture.

It's also possible that some reading this, even if they could find/have the kind of risotto I am talking about, may not feel that it is the best.  Some of this comes down to what one is use to.  Or expects.  Still, I come back to what I first noted:  it is about tasting each individual kernal of rice within the creamy texture.

Of course all of this has been about the texture.  Somewhere we need to talk about flavor.  And, above, I mentioned the aroma of Alle Testiere's seafood risotto.  Or the gorgonzola dolce toasted pistachio risotto which is linked.  Or Fabio's grappa risotto which was a dish that I would lean over the table and inhale.  Before I even tasted it I knew I would love it-the aroma really can frame the taste and the feel.

[TrelayneNYC]

Hard to tell because of the shape of the bowl with the first photo, but the second appears thicker than what I had in Italy. What I had would not have stood up on its own like that if that makes sense. Mine looked more like what you see in the Bourdain video that Joe posted. This looks more like what I'm used to in restaurants in the US. Of course it's really difficult to tell from a single photo and like I said, I have no idea if what I was served was "proper" although according to the Earl of Arborio it appears I was.

I didn't watch the video.

I also don't think comparing experiences by strangers (i.e., my photo of the coconut risotto) to memories of experiences (i.e., your memory of whatever it was you had in Italy) is particularly meaningful, especially since I don't know what you ate so I can't use that as a yardstick. I'm only providing the photo as a rough guideline since as someone noted upthread, it's a dish that you learn to make by attempting it (as is the case with just about anything in life, not just cooking).

[Joe H]

This is a serious book, arguably the best risotto book in the world:  http://www.risogallo.com/risogallo/eng/edizioni.html  It is Risogallo's (who make excellent carneroli) Gallo Guide to the "100 best risotti in the world."  Several years ago this company sponsored a competition for the best risotto in the world.  This book is the result of that.  Almost every risotto is imaginatively conceived; almost everyone is at a great restaurant including many with two and three Michelin stars.  It is in both Italian and in English with metric amounts.  I would describe this as a fascinating book to read through-there are photographs of every risotto.  As a cook I would describe it as very sophisticated and advanced.  It assumes you already understand technique.

I have eaten nine or ten of the risottos from the 6th edition (8th edition is current but you can still buy the 6th) in the restaurants they are from.  I've also made several of them along with others.  As an example of what to expect:  from Gualtiero Marchesi (three Michelin stars in the '90's-note Fabio Trabocchi was at this restaurant before London which was before Maestro) there is a "beetroot risotto with Spumante sauce."  Included in the recipe is 3 dl beetroot juice from 3 blended beetroots.  "1 bottle Franciacorte Spumante."  It does not specify the size of the bottle.  "100 g cream."  It does not specify the kind of cream.  You are going to have to make assumptions, i.e. size of the bottle, that it's heavy cream, etc.

The "risotto of the year" is a remarkable presentation:  simply called "risotto with my brown meat sauce" it starts with making a stock with a kilo of "finely chopped veal bones with some meat remaining" to which are added olive oil and herbs, carrots, onions and celery, roasted for 2 hours, then transferred to a stockpan with water, boiled and then cooked down by 3/4 for 8 hours or more.  After straining, marsala is added.  The risotto itself is a straight forward presentation except that it includes "tomato skin" which is "baked until dry" and used as a garnish along with chives.

Point is that you'll be able to make the risotto correctly but it's complicated and time consuming.

Many of the recipes in this book are like this.

But if you are serious about making truly great risotto, this is the ultimate book for sourcing ideas and recipes.

One more note:  it is not just about using carneroli or violane nano or baldi.  For some it will come down to the producers and the belief that a particular rice from one producer is better than another.  When I travelled to Italy several times a year on business I always brought back either Ferron, Lucidio (sold by Dean and Deluca) or Tenuta Castello.  In additiion to Dean and DeLuca the Italian market in Vienna has an excellent selection of carneroli and violane nano both of which are more difficult to find then you would expect.

[Choirgirl21]

I didn't watch the video.

I also don't think comparing experiences by strangers (i.e., my photo of the coconut risotto) to memories of experiences (i.e., your memory of whatever it was you had in Italy) is particularly meaningful, especially since I don't know what you ate so I can't use that as a yardstick. I'm only providing the photo as a rough guideline since as someone noted upthread, it's a dish that you learn to make by attempting it (as is the case with just about anything in life, not just cooking).

I'm confused as to why you think my comments weren't meaningful. Because I don't have a photo of the specific dish I ate?

[jayandstacey]

Joe and Don - would you guys consider making money off this?

My thought is a "perfect risotto gift basket" that would have all the ingredients, tools and instructions to make the risotto Joe talks about.

You have credibility and market advantage - two things that are really important in any business effort.   The credibility comes from the million hits, and the experience Joe (and Don) have with risottos.  The market advantage is that you know where to get the stuff.

You could have two versions:  One includes the cookware (pan/stirrer) for the first time buyer, the second is just the ingredients for the repeat buyer.  I could see $100 or more for the second basket, and higher for the first depending on the cost of the pan.  I'd be sure to make the selling price of the baskets at least 2x my costs, maybe 3x or more.  This is a luxury item. 

You'd have to figure out the copyright stuff for the recipe - I *think* Joe pulled some of it from a published book but I'm not sure (if not, no problems)

As for making the baskets, you might stock a little bit of stuff that doesn't go bad quickly and where money can be saved with a bulk purchase, like the rice and spices.  But for the cheese and big items (like the pan) I'd buy them as needed to fill orders.   Point is, the gift baskets could be offered with very little investment behind them.

Anyway, fun to think about as I'm sitting in traffic.

[TrelayneNYC]

I'm confused as to why you think my comments weren't meaningful. Because I don't have a photo of the specific dish I ate?

Because they're not, in the context of this particular thread. They are neither meaningful nor particularly helpful, in my opinion. Mr. Joe Doe who might come across this thread probably won't think they are, either. As stated, I provided those pix as a rough guideline so someone who wants to learn more about the dish has an additional resource to use in addition to the content posted above.

If this were a thread about how to make the perfect risotto, then your comments are 100% on the mark. I'm pretty sure mine aren't perfect or even authentic. *shrug*

Your mileage may vary.

[zoramargolis]

Moderator moderating here. We appreciate everyone's passion, opinions and expertise. Let's please make an extra effort to communicate respect for one another's contributions, which doesn't mean that we can't disagree. Merely agree to disagree agreeably, please. Flames do their best work when cooking food, which is our primary concern. Even heat and caution prevents burning on stoves and in discussions. I'll refrain from extending the metaphor further.

Carry on!

[Joe H]

Joe and Don - would you guys consider making money off this?

My thought is a "perfect risotto gift basket" that would have all the ingredients, tools and instructions to make the risotto Joe talks about.

You have credibility and market advantage - two things that are really important in any business effort. The credibility comes from the million hits, and the experience Joe (and Don) have with risottos. The market advantage is that you know where to get the stuff.

You could have two versions: One includes the cookware (pan/stirrer) for the first time buyer, the second is just the ingredients for the repeat buyer. I could see $100 or more for the second basket, and higher for the first depending on the cost of the pan. I'd be sure to make the selling price of the baskets at least 2x my costs, maybe 3x or more. This is a luxury item.

You'd have to figure out the copyright stuff for the recipe - I *think* Joe pulled some of it from a published book but I'm not sure (if not, no problems)

As for making the baskets, you might stock a little bit of stuff that doesn't go bad quickly and where money can be saved with a bulk purchase, like the rice and spices. But for the cheese and big items (like the pan) I'd buy them as needed to fill orders. Point is, the gift baskets could be offered with very little investment behind them.

Anyway, fun to think about as I'm sitting in traffic.

I'm actually making this Saturday night and it is a frightfully expensive dish to make: good carneroli from the Vienna Italian Market for $8. $26 for gorgonzola dolce (I'll use 2/3 of and serve the other 1/3 as part of a cheese tray, 12 for Reggiano (I'll use a portion of) and 5 for a half pound of French butter from Whole Foods (I'll use all of!). $7 for pistachios, $13 for chardonnay, 4 for packaged chicken stock, 1 for an onion, A $38 bottle of olive oil that I'll use five dollars worth of, This is a total of almost $70 hard cost for risotto. Ideally, there were will be eight servings because it is so rich, perhaps even more.

Roberto makes the best white Alba truffle risotto I have ever had. Typically he'll feature it in October and November for special dinners. Alternatively the recipe is in his cookbook, Cooking in Piedmont. Wegman's Fairfax carries Alba truffles in the Fall; alternatively you can send away for them from Urbani on Long Island. I am sure if you ask Roberto, when truffles are in season, he will make it for you.

[Justin Bittner]

"Thomas Keller Launches Gourmet Gift Sets"

[Antonio Burrell]

"Thomas Keller Launches Gourmet Gift Sets"

I just got a full on woody

[DonRocks]

I just got a full on woody

It's too expensive, even with the panache thrown in, it's too expensive.

Whatever the market will bear, I suppose.

[Choirgirl21]

So the time has arrived for me to attempt to make this risotto dish I had in Rome before my dinner club next week. Carnaroli rice has arrived from Amazon so now it's just figuring out how to make the actual dish. The dish I had in Rome was a pear and cheese risotto. I don't remember chunks of pears, or if there were any pieces they were very small and cooked down. The dish had the slighest sweetness from the pear, but it was counterbalanced by the cheese so that the dish was savory.

I tried getting some help from the restaurant on how to make it, but I think it was all lost in translation as this was all I got:

Mantecare il riso con stracchino, parmigiano e pere abate mature.

which Google translates to: Stir the rice with soft cheese, parmesan cheese and ripe pears abbot.

Perhaps the pears weren't cooked down, but just very ripe and so they broke down from the heat? Thoughts? Ideas on what the "soft cheese" could be? 

[mdt]

So the time has arrived for me to attempt to make this risotto dish I had in Rome before my dinner club next week. Carnaroli rice has arrived from Amazon so now it's just figuring out how to make the actual dish. The dish I had in Rome was a pear and cheese risotto. I don't remember chunks of pears, or if there were any pieces they were very small and cooked down. The dish had the slighest sweetness from the pear, but it was counterbalanced by the cheese so that the dish was savory.

I tried getting some help from the restaurant on how to make it, but I think it was all lost in translation as this was all I got:

Mantecare il riso con stracchino, parmigiano e pere abate mature.[/size]

which Google translates to: Stir the rice with soft cheese, parmesan cheese and ripe pears abbot.[/size]

Perhaps the pears weren't cooked down, but just very ripe and so they broke down from the heat? Thoughts? Ideas on what the "soft cheese" could be? [/size]

Stracchino is a soft fresh cheese and I am sure you can find a suitable substitute. More info here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stracchino

As for the pears, if you cut them to small pieces they will break up into the dish as it cooks. The recipe has all the info you need, although they don't say what liquid was used.

[Joe H]

So the time has arrived for me to attempt to make this risotto dish I had in Rome before my dinner club next week. Carnaroli rice has arrived from Amazon so now it's just figuring out how to make the actual dish. The dish I had in Rome was a pear and cheese risotto. I don't remember chunks of pears, or if there were any pieces they were very small and cooked down. The dish had the slighest sweetness from the pear, but it was counterbalanced by the cheese so that the dish was savory.

I tried getting some help from the restaurant on how to make it, but I think it was all lost in translation as this was all I got:

Mantecare il riso con stracchino, parmigiano e pere abate mature.

which Google translates to: Stir the rice with soft cheese, parmesan cheese and ripe pears abbot.

Perhaps the pears weren't cooked down, but just very ripe and so they broke down from the heat? Thoughts? Ideas on what the "soft cheese" could be? 

Gorgonzola dolce.  http://www.academiabarilla.com/italian-recipes/first-courses-1/risotto-with-gorgonzola-fresh-pear-sauce.aspx  Alternatively, http://food52.com/recipes/1878-gorgonzola-and-pear-risotto-with-walnuts-risotto-con-gorgonzola-pere-e-noci  I've made gorgonzola and pear risotto before but it's been a long time; I forget the recipe I used.

FYI The Italian Deli in Vienna has the best selection of arborio of anywhere I have found in the D. C. area.  They may have three or four different brands of carneroli.  Dean and DeLuca in Georgetown is also excellent.  Both of them also carry violane nano.

[The Hersch]

FYI The Italian Deli in Vienna has the best selection of arborio of anywhere I have found in the D. C. area.  They may have three or four different brands of carneroli.  Dean and DeLuca in Georgetown is also excellent.  Both of them also carry violane nano.

I haven't been in more than a year, but the Italian Store in Arlington always used to have a very good carnaroli rice. I don't remember the brand name. I also don't remember if they carry or carried vialone nano.

[Justin Bittner]

I believe this might be the cheese your looking for

[Joe H]

Gorgonzola dolce.  http://www.academiabarilla.com/italian-recipes/first-courses-1/risotto-with-gorgonzola-fresh-pear-sauce.aspx  Alternatively, http://food52.com/recipes/1878-gorgonzola-and-pear-risotto-with-walnuts-risotto-con-gorgonzola-pere-e-noci  I've made gorgonzola and pear risotto before but it's been a long time; I forget the recipe I used.

FYI The Italian Deli in Vienna has the best selection of arborio of anywhere I have found in the D. C. area.  They may have three or four different brands of carneroli.  Dean and DeLuca in Georgetown is also excellent.  Both of them also carry violane nano.

I literally was at Vienna's Italian Deli this afternoon and bought carneroli.  Yes, they do have three different brands along with violane nano.  I actually bought the carneroli for arroz con pollo and use it instead of bomba.  I also want to note that the Fields of Atheny farm near Middleburg  http://fieldsofathenryfarm.com/ is an outstanding source for beef and poultry along with chicken stock equal to anything I could make.  It's real! Depending on the risotto it may actually be too strong (really full bodied) but for the right dish it's superb.  They have a shop which is open to the public Thursday through Saturday and well worth a visit:  http://fieldsofathenryfarm.com/content/shop-hours

[Pat]

Mantecare il riso con stracchino, parmigiano e pere abate mature.

which Google translates to: Stir the rice with soft cheese, parmesan cheese and ripe pears abbot.

Perhaps the pears weren't cooked down, but just very ripe and so they broke down from the heat?  

I was curious as to what abate pears are, and the information I found said that they are very sweet and especially soft when ripe. The softness seems to be a distinctive quality of this type of pear.  It probably doesn't take much to get them to break down, especially if they're already in small pieces.  I don't know what a good substitute would be.

[zoramargolis]

I was curious as to what abate pears are, and the information I found said that they are very sweet and especially soft when ripe. The softness seems to be a distinctive quality of this type of pear.  It probably doesn't take much to get them to break down, especially if they're already in small pieces.  I don't know what a good substitute would be.

Comice.

[Choirgirl21]

I was curious as to what abate pears are, and the information I found said that they are very sweet and especially soft when ripe. The softness seems to be a distinctive quality of this type of pear.  It probably doesn't take much to get them to break down, especially if they're already in small pieces.  I don't know what a good substitute would be.

Interesting, thank you.

What do you guys think about using pear butter in place of actual pears? I picked up a jar at my farmers market this morning - the only ingredients are pears and pear juice, no sugar added. My big concern is the color as the butter has a brownish tint. Crazy idea?

ETA: While the only recipes online seem to use gorgonzola or blue cheese, I really don't think this risotto had either. Possible it was in a small enough quantity that I didn't notice I guess, but that flavor is pretty distinct. I may try it with the stracchino. I'm hoping to do one trial run sometime this week, otherwise I fear the dish may be a disaster on Saturday.

You know, I'm kind of wondering if it wasn't taleggio now that I think about it. Really wish I had paid more attention to what the menu said at the time.

[zoramargolis]

I wouldn't use pear butter. Lightly cooked fresh pear is very different than long-cooked pear butter, which has reduced the water content of the pears and concentrated the sugars.

[Joe H]

Agree with Zora, use pears.

Choirgirl21, serious question:  why not call the restaurant and ask which cheese they use?  I am certain that someone there will speak some English and they should be honored to tell you which cheese.

Aside:  Fabio used to make a phenominal grappa risotto at Maestro which used taleggio and pears.  Does anyone reading this remember it?   Superb.

carneroli, lg. shallot (finely minced), Normandy butter (250 Gr), Taleggio, Reggiano, "good" chicken stock, "forelle" pears finely diced, grappa, salt and pepper.  Forelle pears are very sweet ( "candy sweet"). http://www.specialtyproduce.com/produce/Forelle_Pears_6583.php%C2'>  Whole Foods carries them in season.  (When were you in Rome?)

[Joe H]

http://www.specialtyproduce.com/produce/Forelle_Pears_6583.php is a link for information about forelle pears.

[Choirgirl21]

I hadn't really considered it - I guess I figured I got the answer I was going to get in the email response. I'm not sure I could even make an international call if I wanted to.

I was in Rome in early April.

[Choirgirl21]

http://www.specialtyproduce.com/produce/Forelle_Pears_6583.php is a link for information about forelle pears.

Thanks..