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Joe Riley

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I was given an Aeropress for Christmas. Okay, I asked for one. And I like it a lot. J. still prefers to make cappuccino, using the Saeco espresso machine, but I like the smooth brew I get with the Aeropress. I've used it to make café au lait, but mostly I prefer diluting the extract with hot water and adding little 1/2 and 1/2.

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I just found equivalent to DR but dedicated to all things coffee. Here's their DC/Baltimore comprehensive list.

It's a cool list but they're missing several including Kefa, Coffy Cafe, Sidamo, Bourbon and Kafe Bohem. Kind of incredible but I think may be true that we have a more comprehensive set of threads for the DC shops around dr.com. They seem to have the ones that get the mainline and social media buzz.

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I love my Aeropress, which used in the "inverted method" is as close as I'll ever come to owning a Clover. I run the grind more than a little finer than drip though.

Okay Dave, I need to know more about this "inverted method." You mean I was supposed to use a coarse "drip" grind for the Aeropress? I've been using the same fine grind as we use for espresso. It's too much trouble to change the grind on the Rocky and then remember to check it before grinding for one or other of our devices.

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Some of you might find this article interesting: Joy in the Task.

Really fun article. The best insight is the one that wraps up the argument:

Humans are imperfect, and so a world of perfection that denies the human element can never be truly perfect after all.

Reminds me of a great book for baseball fans written from a very atypical perspective: that of the umpire. Who are they? Why do they do what they do? Why are they so often wrong? And why, why, why is MLB STILL so resistant to using instant replay in so many instances where it'd clearly make more sense? The ultimate answer is the same as the one the Nespresso pod article's author used to conclude.

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It's too much trouble to change the grind on the Rocky and then remember to check it before grinding for one or other of our devices.

I don't understand...I use my Rocky for both espresso and drip (and the occasional French press, aeropress, siphon, Moka, etc.).

How is it too much trouble to change the grind - it's takes under 2 seconds!

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I don't understand...I use my Rocky for both espresso and drip (and the occasional French press, aeropress, siphon, Moka, etc.).

How is it too much trouble to change the grind - it's takes under 2 seconds!

Yes, but I often forget to look at the grinder dial position, start grinding to make espresso, and find that I've left it in a drip position, and the freshly ground coffee is not right for the task at hand.

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Okay-what's a Rocky? (Specifically, as I'm sure it's a grinder, but I'm interested since I've bought and tried recommended grinders in the past only to return them.)

And I need to find out about this inverted method as well. I bought an Aeropress to have at work since I'm the only one who drinks decaf and I like a good strong full flavored decaf. At home we've been using that stove top Italian Espresso maker, with mixed results. Usually quite good, but it takes a bit of experimenting to get the exact ratio for the best flavor, as it changes with each new coffee we try.

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Rocky Rancilio grinder, it's a burr grinder. I bought it with my Ms Sylvia since it's the same company, it was recommended :-) and it wasn't super expensive compared to others. Oh I got the doserless version, so the coffee is dispensed as soon as it is ground. With the doser version, the grounds collect in a separate container that can be dosed into your portafilter or coffee filter. The downside is that leftover grounds stay there until you make your next coffee (the next day?) and so you're not using freshly ground coffee.

I'm not completely confident this addressed all your interest in the grinder, why have past grinders failed for you? We're they burr grinders?

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I just picked up some Verve Street Level Espresso at Dolcezza and am looking forward to giving it a "shot" with Rocky and Silvia tomorrow morning!

That's very good stuff! For even more fun, you might comparing it side-by-side with Ceremony's "Mass Appeal" (aka "Sweet Cheeks"). It's my current favorite espresso and can be had or purchased at Filter (Dupont or Foggy Bottom) and The Coffee Bar (Logan/14th St/U).

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Okay Dave, I need to know more about this "inverted method." You mean I was supposed to use a coarse "drip" grind for the Aeropress? I've been using the same fine grind as we use for espresso. It's too much trouble to change the grind on the Rocky and then remember to check it before grinding for one or other of our devices.

No, I'd stick with the fine grind. Sorry about the apparent disconnect; I had been reading up on Aeropress grind sizes the previous week and had observed that many Aeropress contest winners report running their grind only slightly finer than drip.

The idea behind the inverted method is to keep all of the water in contact with the grounds for precisely the chosen steep time, eliminating the partially brewed coffee that seeps through the filter assembly under gravity or driven through by the assembly of the plunger.

There are a bazillion videos out there demonstrating how this is done but I like the meticulousness of this one, especially the setup of preheating the Aeropress and the filter carrier. Ignore the audio, which is only background noise. My disagreement would be that I think he pours the water far too slowly, as if he were making a pour-over (nearly 16 seconds!), resulting in inconsistent contact time and defeating the main purpose of the inverted method in the first place. It's obvious that he's trying to exactly measure his water by weight, but that should be doable in just a few seconds. There's also no reason not to fit the filter assembly as soon as the stirring is done so you're ready to plunge as soon as you reach your time target.

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... I had been reading up on Aeropress grind sizes the previous week and had observed that many Aeropress contest winners report running their grind only slightly finer than drip...

Dave, would you say you (and anyone else as well) prefer steeping methods (e.g., aeropress, french press, clever) to what I'll call 'pass-through' methods (e.g., pourover/chemex, drip)?

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"I don't think so." This is a complicated subject, and I'm neither geeky enough (hard to believe) nor possessed of a refined-enough palate to discern everything that might be going on, but this isn't exactly the partition of the solution space that works for me. If I understand your suggestion correctly, the primary difference seems to be whether the entire serving is steeped at once or not, but note that even a "pass-through" mechanism is designed to lengthen the water contact time with the grounds, usually by controlling the size and number of holes below the filter level. On the short-and-highly-variable end, you have the Hario pour-over, whose technical shortcomings I think people choose to overlook because there's a technique and "performance" to its use; on the long end one could argue that Vietnamese coffee is technically a pass-through method even if it takes 15 minutes to get through a packed filter. Conversely, in your taxonomy Turkish coffee would be a "steeping" method.

I like the Aeropress for the following reasons. The paper filter and forced filtering permits the use of a finer grind, which permits lower brewing temperature, which avoids acid extraction. It also permits the use of a smaller area filter, which traps less of the aromatic oils that I'd rather have in my cup. It lets me control the steeping time with good precision for the entire contents of the cup.

~~

Since I'm in a long-winded mood tonight, here you get the short-story version of Dave's Journey as a Coffee Consumer, Thus Far.

If you are around my age and grew up in the US, you may remember that in the 1970 and 80s, before gourmet coffee went mainstream, consumer magazine taste tests were routinely won by the #2 Melitta single cup drip filter. Apart from that, everyone had a fondness for the Bunn-o-matic basket brewer. And that was it, because your grandparents' generation grew up drinking burnt, boiled, overextracted coffee from a percolator, so having a mini-Bunn at home in the form of a Mr Coffee (introduced in 1972) *was* a gourmet convenience, even when most coffee was sold preground in tins.

My first coffeemaker (once I finally cultivated a liking for coffee) was a plastic single-cup Melitta in the mid-80s, and it was responsible for my first coffee epiphany: find better beans, and grind them yourself. I had just moved to the Boston area, and my office was a short walk to The Coffee Connection, which served its coffee at the table in a French press. I didn't care for the press, but I LOVED the beans, and my roommate had a small blade grinder, so that's what we drank: lots of Yirgacheffe and Kenya AA. Even better, every once in a while we'd send somebody on a trip to the west coast and they would bring back Peet's...particularly Peet's Sulawesi Kalossi, or as one friend called it, "nitromethane for the human body". Brew strength was rather variable until I bought a small electric burr grinder, but we didn't know much about brewing temperatures yet.

Like many people, an espresso phase came next, and having by then moved to Silicon Valley (now alternating at home between the Melitta and a Bodum press pot), the break room at the office went through a succession of increasingly serious and commercial machines (including some fancy low-RPM burr mills) and considerable experimentation: one friend decided that his cappuccino wasn't rich enough, so he began frothing fudge ripple ice cream(!). Eventually moving back here (coincidentally this is about when Starbucks went nationwide, around 1990), I suffered through a series of lousy and unreliable consumer monobloc espresso machines until I talked one of my housemates into buying the ironically-named Baby Gaggia so we could drink something decent. There weren't any non-academic websites back then, so I did my research via Usenet newsgroups, and although people talked about the existence of smaller Rancilio and Saeco/Faema machines, you simply couldn't find an affordable pump machine besides the Gaggias.

By the mid-90s the entire gourmet coffee category had begun to explode, with equipment popping up all over the place, and local roasters beginning to establish themselves. I remember accidentally finding Quartermaine's roasting plant 20 years ago by following my nose (there used to be a paper target printing company in the same complex behind White Flint Mall) to what I could only have described then as that "west coast" dark roast smell. The fellow actually running the roaster gave me an impromptu tour, and revealed that he had formerly roasted for Starbuck's AND Peet's, back when they were still small regional operations.

But my next epiphany didn't come until 2002, when I made a trip to Seattle, and finally got to have a cup at Vivace. Actually, I had quite a few cups at Vivace...they were unbelievable. Not just great, but redefining, particularly the long finish and aftertaste. David Schomer's work since the early '90s practically created the technique of the modern barista, and his technical work on precision brewing temperatures is the primary reason everybody seems to have redesigned their group heads in the past decade and added high-precision PID controllers to their boilers. Before about 1998, all anybody talked about was pressure and grind. After that (and the establishment of CoffeeGeek.com around 2000ish), temperature, grind, and pack/tamping.

~~


I still don't know that much about coffee terroir, and honestly I haven't cared to...for a particular varietal, harvest selection and the transformative contributions of the roaster seem much more significant. I suppose I should learn more about cupping, although it seems very remote from the enjoyment of a finished brew. I prefer medium-to-dark roasts, and don't care much for green nor burnt notes. Given a bag of beans, there are plenty of ways to make a cup that I like, but currently I *really* like the ones off my Aeropress. Give me another month to play with the Hario we were given, but on first principles I don't see how it's going to produce a better cup. But, as they say, YMMV.

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Okay...deep breath in....Let me just start off by saying that the vast majority of people have never had fresh roasted coffee. It's simply a fact of the market that most roasters are of a scale that it takes them a week or more before they can get their coffee on the shelf and into consumers' homes. By that point, you have already missed the peak flavor of the coffee. Personally, I don't drink coffee that was roasted more than 9 or 10 days earlier, but coffee can retain some origin character up to three weeks after roasting. Still a lot of coffee sits on the shelf for much longer than that. This is why at Qualia we sell all of our beans within three days of roasting them.

If you have truly fresh, expertly roasted coffee, then origin, varietal, harvest are everything. They truly define the flavor of the coffee and it is far more complex and interesting than you can imagine. Coffee beans contain more than 400 hundred flavor compounds, but they are highly volatile and easily destroyed when not properly handled or when allowed to stale. What most people think of as the flavor of coffee is actually imparted by the roasting process, a carbonization of coffee oils and sugars. Many roasters prefer to focus on this roast flavor because it is far more durable than coffee's naturally flavors.

Lastly, when I talk about coffee, I'm talking about brewed coffee, not espresso. I am of the opinion that brewed coffee has largely gone unappreciated by the food community. Simply put, espresso is one way to brew coffee, but it is inflexible and doesn't work well with all beans. You cannot really appreciate the wide variety that coffee offers if your baseline is espresso.

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If you have truly fresh, expertly roasted coffee, then origin, varietal, harvest are everything. They truly define the flavor of the coffee and it is far more complex and interesting than you can imagine. Coffee beans contain more than 400 hundred flavor compounds, but they are highly volatile and easily destroyed when not properly handled or when allowed to stale. What most people think of as the flavor of coffee is actually imparted by the roasting process, a carbonization of coffee oils and sugars. Many roasters prefer to focus on this roast flavor because it is far more durable than coffee's naturally flavors.

Good stuff, Joel. I should correct a misstatement I made, which was to say "beyond varietal..." where I meant to say origin, and by terroir I mean micro-lot or single-estate. Obviously there's far more going on than whether the bean is Arabica or Robusta.

Lastly, when I talk about coffee, I'm talking about brewed coffee, not espresso. I am of the opinion that brewed coffee has largely gone unappreciated by the food community. Simply put, espresso is one way to brew coffee, but it is inflexible and doesn't work well with all beans. You cannot really appreciate the wide variety that coffee offers if your baseline is espresso.

I think you'll find that most of us here drink and enjoy much more brewed coffee than in any other form. FWIW, espresso isn't my baseline, it's just one of many styles that I enjoy, and I think it's pretty obvious that the Aeropress is NOT an espresso maker. The story above isn't even remotely comprehensive - it's meant only to explain the origins of certain biases I have about brewing methods - and I'm always looking forward to adding another chapter. Hopefully I'll have time to attend one of your educational events in the near future.

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Dave--Thanks for the detailed response on your "coffee journey." Interesting stuff. I come at it from an 'out' more than an 'in' perspective, meaning I've never been a big brewer of coffee (or espresso) at home though I have done it, LOVE the process, technology and machines and, of course, get gifts for friends and family who home brew and love great coffee.

I'll likely write something for the board about what I termed "steep" vs "pass through" as my own preferences around these have really evolved and I don't think we've had a good discussion around brew methods. More on sourcing, processing, grinding, and roasting so far--all critical of course to what ends up in the cup.

Joel's views about brewed coffee and freshness were very instructive to me when I first heard them and, more importantly, tasted some different coffees. As an Independent Coffee House (ICH), Qualia is a relative oddity in so overtly emphasizing brewed coffee over espresso but I give Joel a ton of credit for doing what he believes and advocating/explaining the basis for his beliefs. All said, I think it's very tough for coffee drinkers; even those who really love and know something about coffee, to really appreciate the difference between 4-day and 9-day post-roast beans once brewed. That is, unless they can experience it side-by-side. As a general comment about ICHs, I think this is a HUGE missed opportunity to educate and thus develop the market. I've had enough experience now to appreciate and agree with what Joel explains. But I think that's relatively rare due to lack of opportunity and a lot of market apathy. Even for me--somewhat knowledgeable but not an expert--I can go to one of several ICH's here in town, have a pourover with beans that might have been roasted 7-12 days prior and truly enjoy the cup. I can recognize it as different from a 3-day-old roast (which I'd love also). Not sure where that leaves me...or the larger market.

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I guess espresso is a baseline for me, in terms of evaluating a barista's technique as simply "pass" or "fail". When I get a bad shot of espresso, it is pretty clear. When I get a good shot, it is pretty clear. I readily admit that I can't tell the difference between a very good and an exceptional cup of brewed coffee (assuming I've ever had one). I'm using the dubious logic that if an ICH serves me a "passing" espresso, then they must know what they are doing and the brewed coffee there will most likely be a "pass" as well.

Sounds like you all trust your sources and techniques enough to appreciate the finer points of the beverage, I'm still trying to establish minimum standards for what an acceptable cup of coffee/espresso is and how to consistently get there. Seems that beans/baristas change quickly in this town. I missed your Living Social class Joel, would like to attend one if you ever repeat.

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Good stuff, Joel. I should correct a misstatement I made, which was to say "beyond varietal..." where I meant to say origin, and by terroir I mean micro-lot or single-estate. Obviously there's far more going on than whether the bean is Arabica or Robusta.

Arabica and Robusta are different species. Within Arabica, there are dozens of different varietals, including Bourbon, Caturra, Maragogype, SL28, etc. Most farms cultivate several different varietals of coffee trees, although you will find many examples of single-varietal beans which may or may not be from a single farm. This is where things get really interesting. We currently feature two micro-lots from Nicaragua, one is from a small farm that has 12 different varietals of coffee tree growing on it and the other is a single varietal (Java varietal imported from Indonesia) from several different farms. Each is distinctive.

In terms of espresso being an indicator of good coffee, that has not been my experience. I have been to plenty of good coffee shops that could make a mean espresso, but couldn't produce a decent cup of coffee. Unfortunately, I have found that much of the barista culture revolves more around the ability to make a pretty latte than knowing much about the beans themselves or about brewing methods than espresso.

Joel

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I guess espresso is a baseline for me, in terms of evaluating a barista's technique as simply "pass" or "fail". When I get a bad shot of espresso, it is pretty clear. When I get a good shot, it is pretty clear. I readily admit that I can't tell the difference between a very good and an exceptional cup of brewed coffee (assuming I've ever had one). I'm using the dubious logic that if an ICH serves me a "passing" espresso, then they must know what they are doing and the brewed coffee there will most likely be a "pass" as well.

Sounds like you all trust your sources and techniques enough to appreciate the finer points of the beverage, I'm still trying to establish minimum standards for what an acceptable cup of coffee/espresso is and how to consistently get there. Seems that beans/baristas change quickly in this town. I missed your Living Social class Joel, would like to attend one if you ever repeat.

In terms of espresso being an indicator of good coffee, that has not been my experience. I have been to plenty of good coffee shops that could make a mean espresso, but couldn't produce a decent cup of coffee. Unfortunately, I have found that much of the barista culture revolves more around the ability to make a pretty latte than knowing much about the beans themselves or about brewing methods than espresso.

Joel

Strong agree here. Espresso drink making and coffee brewing are two different galaxies. I've been in lots of shops across the country that did one well and the other terribly and vice versa. That said, I think some shops do do both well with The Coffee Bar being a current example. Both though, are so technique dependent that, with the frequent turnover in staff, you can never be sure about drink quality anywhere from week to week unless the owner is obsessed with what he or she is doing and handles most of the production from sourcing to brewing him/herself. You know, people like Joel. :D

Will diverge a bit from Joel though in fessing up I really enjoy the full gamut of beverages made from the bean; brewed and espresso. But love that Joel has moved his chips near entirely onto the coffee table and is laser locked on doing coffee better every day and better than others. If only we had more espresso places that did that...or delis...

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Great posts. I have had issues with places that carry "freshly-roasted beans" when those beans were roasted weeks ago.

I am lucky enough to live across the street from a place that gets in freshly roasted beans 2x a week, so they're never more than 2 or 3 days old. Dolcezza occasionally fits that bill too - like the Verve Street Level that I picked up last week (roasted 3 days prior), and which, btw, was a fine espresso shot and was really good brewed via pourover.

I will definitely take a drive up to Petworth and your shop the next time I'm down in DC with my car.

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I will definitely take a drive up to Petworth and your shop the next time I'm down in DC with my car.

Qualia is two blocks from Petworth-GA Ave Metro station and on two bus lines. No need to drive. Petworth is also home to the only Scandanavian restaurant in DC, as well as Chez Billy, which has recently received a very favorable review from Tom Siestma.

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Qualia is two blocks from Petworth-GA Ave Metro station and on two bus lines. No need to drive. Petworth is also home to the only Scandanavian restaurant in DC, as well as Chez Billy, which has recently received a very favorable review from Tom Siestma.

OT for this thread but I'd also point out that Three Little Pigs (one of the newer charcuterie type places in town) is just up the street from Joel. And, Qualia itself has a good amount of space relative to some other, more-shoebox-like ICHs, so a fine place for a break to try to some very freshly roasted coffees and even learn a bit if inclined.

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So, what are your baseline roasts/beans for coffee brewing? What do you look for in them? I need to rethink how I evaluate/brew my cups.

Although I will keep an open mind to many of your coffee suggestions, I absolutely refuse to part with my Winnie the Pooh ceramic mug--some rituals are too sacred.

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So, what are your baseline roasts/beans for coffee brewing? What do you look for in them? I need to rethink how I evaluate/brew my cups.

Although I will keep an open mind to many of your coffee suggestions, I absolutely refuse to part with my Winnie the Pooh ceramic mug--some rituals are too sacred.

Strictly speaking, espresso is a brewing method and does not refer to any specific bean or roast. Any coffee can be brewed on an espresso machine, whether it works palate wise is another matter.

My preferred brewing method for judging coffee is the hand-poured drip method. I think there is a strong argument as well for French press. A vacpot is absolutely the best, but even I have a hard time pulling that one off on a regular basis.

I know a lot of people like a dark roast, but for me, you lose too much of the natural flavor of the coffee. I think a good roast is invisible, that is to say you taste the coffee not the roasting process. I roast as light as a bean will allow. Unfortunately I think some people may have been turned off by light roasts that were handled poorly and ended up tasting overly woody, astringent or sour.

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Ah, I finally score some cool points -- I like lighter roasts as well. Glad to hear your thoughts as a roaster. But I guess what I'm asking when I say "baseline": is there a particular bean (i.e. varietal, origin, harvest in your words) that is readily available to most roasters, that is best-suited somehow to evaluate the roaster's style? Or to evaluate a brewer's style? When you walk into an unfamiliar craft coffeeshop, is there a particular v/o/h that you choose just to use as a baseline of evaluation? If not, how do you evaluate them?

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Ah, I finally score some cool points -- I like lighter roasts as well. Glad to hear your thoughts as a roaster. But I guess what I'm asking when I say "baseline": is there a particular bean (i.e. varietal, origin, harvest in your words) that is readily available to most roasters, that is best-suited somehow to evaluate the roaster's style? Or to evaluate a brewer's style? When you walk into an unfamiliar craft coffeeshop, is there a particular v/o/h that you choose just to use as a baseline of evaluation? If not, how do you evaluate them?

I actually have two very different answers to this.

If you want a coffee that will be commonly available across different roasters, your best bet is an Ethiopian, a Yirgacheffe or Sidamo, or a Brazil Mogiana or Cerrado. Those would offer a nice generic basis for comparison and are often available year round.

But, if I want to really know how good a roasters is, I would probably look for the coffee they offer with the most biographic information. The more specific details you have about where the beans come from and how it is processed, the more origin character or unique terrior it should have. If they offer a coffee from a specific small farm that has been lovingly cultivated by a dedicated and experienced grower, the coffee should be bursting with flavor and complexity.

Joel

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Strictly speaking, espresso is a brewing method and does not refer to any specific bean or roast. Any coffee can be brewed on an espresso machine, whether it works palate wise is another matter.

My preferred brewing method for judging coffee is the hand-poured drip method. I think there is a strong argument as well for French press. A vacpot is absolutely the best, but even I have a hard time pulling that one off on a regular basis....

Of course agree with the espresso thoughts but the thing w/ espresso for me is, in part, the choices made by the roaster. Many espressos (and even worse, the ubiquitous "holiday blends" that appear near end of year) are ways for roasters who look for shortcuts (less concerned about quality) to get rid of older, less saleable beans. For an espresso, a roaster who does it right will have experimented and trashed many batches of beans before landing on the one (or blend) they think best. So lots of art there before you even get to the shop, where an untrained barista can still ruin the best of espressos.

I'm with you on pour-overs. I get the best results (for me) that way. Interesting you think the vacuum siphon systems are superior. There haven't been many ICHs around DC that have offered that. I've had a bunch of cups made with vacuum pots out west (Portland, SFO and Seattle especially). I liked the results but not as much as a well done pourover, one of the oldest methods that there is. One of the major/better roasters and retailers in Portland (PDX), Heart, was using vac pots for awhile and promoted them hard. They don't use them anymore for exactly the reason you state--they couldn't ensure an acceptable level of consistency from cup to cup even with their (highly motivated and generally highly skilled) staff. They were able to get nearly double the price for a coffee made that way though. In part because they had a very impressive looking system. Here's a link for those unfamiliar with vacuum siphon systems. The picture at that link isn't as cool as some other systems that operate the same way.

I actually have two very different answers to this.

If you want a coffee that will be commonly available across different roasters, your best bet is an Ethiopian, a Yirgacheffe or Sidamo, or a Brazil Mogiana or Cerrado. Those would offer a nice generic basis for comparison and are often available year round.

But, if I want to really know how good a roasters is, I would probably look for the coffee they offer with the most biographic information. The more specific details you have about where the beans come from and how it is processed, the more origin character or unique terrior it should have. If they offer a coffee from a specific small farm that has been lovingly cultivated by a dedicated and experienced grower, the coffee should be bursting with flavor and complexity.

Joel

Joel, explain a bit how you source your coffee. Through a wholesaler, right? I've come across some shops around the US who, though small, source directly but that seems much more the exception than the norm. Too expensive for a small business to do that. The regular travel alone--to develop and deepen relationships with farmers, check crops and cherries, consult on processing etc.--isn't affordable for most or can break the back of a shop trying to differentiate itself that way.

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My preferred brewing method for judging coffee is the hand-poured drip method.

Some of the best cups I've had in the past year were pour-overs. Some of the worst cups, as well. I've become wary of ordering a pour-over whenever a shop is busy. Technique is critical and if a barista is distracted trying to do too many things at once, the pour-over suffers. Latest example was from Dolcezza (Dupont), which I've started going to on darkstar's recommendation. Usually excellent, the last pour-over I got there was undrinkable. The shop was slammed and the barista lost track of what he was doing. ugh.

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Joel, explain a bit how you source your coffee. Through a wholesaler, right? I've come across some shops around the US who, though small, source directly but that seems much more the exception than the norm. Too expensive for a small business to do that. The regular travel alone--to develop and deepen relationships with farmers, check crops and cherries, consult on processing etc.--isn't affordable for most or can break the back of a shop trying to differentiate itself that way.

We get all our coffee from importers, although some of our importers are the growers themselves. There are wholesalers, but that would just add another layer of middlemen. We do lean on our importers to develop good relationships in the countries. The logistics of importing coffee are enormously cumbersome and not something I would look to wade into any time soon.

Joel

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Some of the best cups I've had in the past year were pour-overs. Some of the worst cups, as well. I've become wary of ordering a pour-over whenever a shop is busy. Technique is critical and if a barista is distracted trying to do too many things at once, the pour-over suffers. Latest example was from Dolcezza (Dupont), which I've started going to on darkstar's recommendation. Usually excellent, the last pour-over I got there was undrinkable. The shop was slammed and the barista lost track of what he was doing. ugh.

Porcupine's most recent experience at Dolcezza Dupont prompts an ICH recc I'll make here.

At a serious ICH (e.g., Dolcezza, Sidamo, Filter, The Coffee Bar, Buzz, Kafe Bohem, Northside Social, Peregrine), if you get an unsatisfactory drink, TELL THEM and GET IT REMADE. Any shop worth it's salt...er, grind...will do this without complaint. You may have done that at Dolcezza, Porcupine. I just wanted to make the point for all since quality will vary some even at the best of shops whether espresso or brewed coffee.

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Generally I think you're right (about asking them to remake the drink), but in this case I had no hope of things getting better. The woman who helped us at the gelato counter made of point of telling us she was working off the clock. The place was crazy busy and there was a steady, heavy stream of customers that never let up. I don't hold this against them; the woman said she had no idea what was going on, they weren't ever that busy that time of day/day of week. I still think overall their coffee is excelent.

My point is, I have become wary of the pour-over. If the staff don't appear to have their act together, I just don't order one.

btw, I haven't been in about a year, but Cowgirl Creamery used to do an excellent pour-over.

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Generally I think you're right (about asking them to remake the drink), but in this case I had no hope of things getting better. The woman who helped us at the gelato counter made of point of telling us she was working off the clock. The place was crazy busy and there was a steady, heavy stream of customers that never let up. I don't hold this against them; the woman said she had no idea what was going on, they weren't ever that busy that time of day/day of week. I still think overall their coffee is excelent.

My point is, I have become wary of the pour-over. If the staff don't appear to have their act together, I just don't order one.

btw, I haven't been in about a year, but Cowgirl Creamery used to do an excellent pour-over.

Ah, I see. Totally makes sense what happened. Pour overs do take some skill and attention. If chaos is ruling, even a skilled person can screw it up. Combine chaos and a new employee and, well, yeah, then getting something different is probably a good idea. ;)

Consistent with that point--and this more for everyone else out there vs Porcupine per se--can't really say that a place makes a good or bad pourover so much as a person or the people within the place. That's what great places have good days. And it's why generally criticized places can put out something brilliant when the stars align property. This is more about playing the averages than with restaurants. Many variables (coffee, equipment, policies, venue) are reflective of the owner but staffing can be more variable. Better shops will generally have better staff and hang on to them longer but it's never absolute. Can't really have a career path in coffee unless you go into business for yourself. Even more severe example of what has happened to the notion of a "professional waiter" which are now much rarer than years ago and generally only found in fine-dining places. I don't think there's really such thing as a long-term professional barista unless said barista starts a coffee company, in which case most of the new entrepreneur's time won't be spent making pour overs for Porcupine or me. :)

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Very late in reading this thread. I agree with porcupine: Many places are now equipped to do pour overs--it's become quite trendy. But quite a few aren't up on training on how to correctly prepare a pour over. I think its quite like getting espresso. A shiny expensive GB/5 won't get you a good espresso in the hands of a poor barista. A good barista can do a good shot with good coffee, a strong grinder and a decent espresso machine.

Far too many businesses get into coffee perhaps because they think its a profit center or because it's trendy--for whatever reason they're unable to make/maintain a commitment to quality coffee.

Incidentally, a shout out to P & C Market on Lincoln Park. They serve and sell Vigilante coffee, locally roasted. Stopped there after the R&R Marathon/Half.

(BTW, why ever is this thread in Shopping & Cooking?)

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Very late in reading this thread.

...

(BTW, why ever is this thread in Shopping & Cooking?)

while you were away, the number of coffee-related threads mushroomed. they're on most every forum now. most (but definitely not all) make sense in terms of which forum but lots of housecleaning and (re)organization needed. Then again, the winchester mystery house aspect of this website gives it some charm imho. unless I'm looking for something urgently. however urgent, google is donrockwell.com's best friend when it comes to search ;)

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I'm not crazy about Illy--it doesn't compare with what other *real* coffee shops are using. I've had coffee there many times, and its fine. I'd probably not get a pour over with Illy. Pour overs and espresso in Ballston are fine. Not always good, but ok.

I find Illy fine overseas--some of the best espresso I had was at an Illy shop in KL, Malaysia. I wish companies wouldn't change what they sell to the US vs. other countries. The Illy here tastes awful and not smooth at all.

Pour overs are becoming trendy, as even Starbucks has jumped on the trend at certain locations. It's hard for me to see how fashionable coffee can be, as evinced by pretty packaging and an "Artisian" twist seen at Starbucks. I just saw the Clover in action at the Lee-Harrison shop yesterday, using one of these "fancy" beans, and I felt a little sad.

In NoVA (I tend to stick with lattes), the last few I had were:

Bayou Bakery (very nice)

Buzz Ballston (still good and much better compared to its sister location)

Caffe Amouri (it was so nice I bought a bag of their beans for regular coffee)

Northside Social (would like it better if it didn't taste like they needed to clean their equipment that day)

Starbucks (in a pinch and hurry!)

St. Elmo's (it's hit or miss there, but I don't which beans they use)

I last went to B&W on Friday and chose a latte using Stumptown. Last Friday, when the weather was nice, there was a line out the door at 3pm. My Stumptown latte (you can now use which beans you want on the board of two--this was Celebrate(?)/Caffe Pronto and Stumptown day) didn't taste so great. Not sure if because it was in a hurry, or I only saw a quick wipe of the grinds carrier instead of a good rinse, or the fact that the barista was using her hand to levels he grind and didn't see a presser? To pack the grinds in, but I probably should have left. It was the first time I felt unhappy about something at B&W. I was $10 out for it too, with $5 on baked goods and $5 on a soy-based latte.

I didn't have a good experience at Misha's and swore I would never go back.

Anywho, in Rockville, I had a nice latte at Dawson's Market. They are using Blanchard's based in Richmond, I think, and I really enjoy their beans.

Finally, I think this is in this forum because i thought it was for where to buy beans for home brew or roast? I guess it has evolved?

If anyone wants to go on a tour of various shops this week, let me know. I'm in-between contract projects again (which is killing me! I need to find a steady job or ask for help in sending out resumes).

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This is a bit last minute, but my coffee grinder bit the dust and I'm hoping to maybe find a good Black Friday deal on Amazon. Recommendations for a good grinder under $100? I don't have a lot of requirements aside from having good options for adjusting the grind (I tend to  use the finest setting - a 1 - on my current grinder for espresso and the 3 for my Aeropress the most, but I sometimes use a courser grind to do the inverted method with the Aeropress. Anyway, aside from that, I would love to not have grounds everywhere all of the time. I don't think the container on my grinder has a good "seal" when pushed into place so you get a little of them flying out and then when you pull the container out they inevitably get all over. The container is plastic so not surprisingly it's also a messy endeavor when opening it and transferring grounds to another container. Other than that, I'd just like something with a small footprint. Space is at a premium in my tiny kitchen. 

Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks. 

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1 hour ago, weezy said:

It sounds like the Bodum in this list is what you're looking for:

"What Is the Best Coffee Grinder Under $100?" on letsgrindsomecoffee.com

My initial thought - which is based on nothing but common sense - when I saw the list is that the manual grinders might tend to be of higher quality than the electric grinders, simply because motors are expensive, and if you can remove that component, the other components may be of better quality (also remember that they're portable, which is another potential bonus). Again, I need to stress that this post is based on absolutely nothing other than the obvious, and might even be entirely wrong.

The biggest drawback may also be the obvious one: You're too tired to manually grind before you've had a cup of coffee - like needing to tinkle in the middle of the night when you have a broken leg. Is it worth it? Meh ... chamber pot (or today's equivalent: Gatorade (one of those moments when you're delighted to be male (men who built their beds up towards the ceiling in their college dorms are smiling right now, (thinking about "the 4 AM rescue" after a night of beer (and may St. Peter take into consideration the living quarters of those who lived in Johnstone Hall at Clemson))))). In all seriousness, this problem can be solved by placing one of these on your nightstand right before going to sleep - consider it the equivalent of a gas can when you're stranded on the side of the road, without the worry of flammability (or inflammability).

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On 11/24/2016 at 11:06 AM, weezy said:

It sounds like the Bodum in this list is what you're looking for:

"What Is the Best Coffee Grinder Under $100?" on letsgrindsomecoffee.com

Thanks. Turns out I had this grinder way down on my Amazon wishlist. Had added it so long ago I completely forgot. It was at it's lowest price yesterday, So that was easy. It will be here tomorrow. :)

Don, I wonder if it's just a function of less parts. No idea really, just know I'm not manually grinding my beans. :D

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So does anyone have that Bodum grinder I ended up with? I'm not impressed so far. I have the setting on the finest grind for espresso and it appears like a course grind from my previous grinder - maybe what I'd get on the 5-6 scale. Nowhere near what you'd expect for espresso. :(  I'm now wishing I hadn't pitched my old one. I jammed up the grinder trying to switch the grind setting with beans in the hopper, but I'm wondering if it couldn't have been fixed. Aside from the coffee grinds everywhere, it did a nice job.

 

I also recently noticed there is a coffee grinder thread that I was unable to locate earlier so if my posts should be moved, feel free. :)

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