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porcupine

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I'm in the early process of selecting new appliances and checked Consumer Reports -- Bosch, Kenmore, and a third (LG, Samsung?) topped out their list. Looking at the dish washers in the store, I'm inclined to stick with my stand by, Kenmore.

Our neighbors went with a suite of Kenmore appliances when they redid their kitchen (just before we did ours), and they love them-- the dishwasher in particular was gushed over (pardon the pun).

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Also, can I get opinions on installation?  Home Depot and Lowe's charge an extra $150 or so to install, and Costco has it included in the total price.  Costco comes in below both Home Depot and Lowe's with the installation included, and I tend to trust them (American Express) more than the others for backing up their work, but I'd like to hear from others about it.  Everything online about HD and L is a horror story.  They can't all be horror stories, right? :)

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The only thing we ever had Home Depot install was cabinetry and, while I can't remember details this many years later, the whole process was one problem after another.  Once it was finished, we said, "Never again." They also arrived much later than they said they would.

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Sears sells almost all brands and has reliable installation and repair techs. We've had reasonably good luck with Kenmore appliances, which in the past were mfg'd by Whirlpool--not sure if they still are.

I think that while it  may be something of a mixed bag these days, Whirlpool is still their primary source.  I have found that one way to know what you're getting is to go down the row and open the doors of the various models on display -- focus on those with prices similar to the Kenmore you're interested in.  Often they sell the manufacturer's own brand stuff, so when you find one whose interior matches the Kenmore, you have found the manufacturer.  There are often several models in the same line -- check the features (bells and whistles) and you can probably get pretty close to the same model.

Having read seemingly millions of reviews of appliances, I've concluded it's a crap shoot.  You just never know what you'll get.  My only advice is don't spend too much ; $4-500 for a DW ought to do it.  Beyond that and it really is mostly bells and whistles.  Basically they all clean dishes.

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Yeowch.  That seems excessive.  I resurrected mine with a citric acid treatment, but it's making a screechy sound, so it just buys me a little more time to decide.  FWIW, CR likes Bosch, but Whirlpool has the best rep for not needing repairs.  

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When my washer/dryer broke, I researched the heck out of dealers in this area. I ended up choosing M&M Appliance (http://www.mandmappliance.com/by-brand/ask/Asko.html) for my Bosch set. They were great to deal with, I got to haggle, and look at the appliances right there.

There are A LOT Arlington moms who are unhappy with Bray & Scarff, so don't use them...

Hope this helps...

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When my washer/dryer broke, I researched the heck out of dealers in this area. I ended up choosing M&M Appliance (http://www.mandmappliance.com/by-brand/ask/Asko.html) for my Bosch set. They were great to deal with, I got to haggle, and look at the appliances right there.

There are A LOT Arlington moms who are unhappy with Bray & Scarff, so don't use them...

Hope this helps...

I'm not an Arlington mom, but I would avoid Bray & Scarff like the plague. We ordered a large number of appliances from them about two years ago. Aside from the very genial and proactive salesperson, dealing with everything from delivery to customer service was an absolute nightmare. Every appliance we purchased from them has already had multiple repairs, and in the case of a standalone freezer, numerous complaints to the BBB had to be made in order to rectify a simple situation. We will never use them again, and deeply regret giving them the business in the first place.

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Some more info from my research last night:

Sears Appliances in Tenleytown had about 20-25 models to look at and delivery, install, haul away and the stainless steel hose they recommend (or perhaps require) was going to cost $205. There's a promotion with the Boschs though and I think install was either free or rebated $150...something like that. To be honest, at that point of my search, I wasn't really interested in the Bosch models because they don't have heated dry and because of some loading/configuration complaints I had heard from others.

The Best Buy across the street has a free delivery and haul away promotion, but install isn't free and I think that was estimated to be $160.

I really liked the sales rep we worked with at the Bray and Scarff in Bethesda and they had several ASKO models to look at. Good to know about others' experiences though.

It turns out our existing dishwasher is a slightly smaller, "European" width and because it's built into the cabinetry, it looks like I have to stick with the 23" brands/models...so ASKOs and Boschs...? Does anyone else have this issue?

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I really liked the sales rep we worked with at the Bray and Scarff in Bethesda and they had several ASKO models to look at. Good to know about others' experiences though.

I bought my appliances from Bray and Scarff in Bethesda almost 10 years ago now, and it was a great experience. At the same time, friends used a Bray and Scraff in VA and were very unhappy.

I will not buy any more GE appliances though. They do not hold up.

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We bought our Bosch from the Great Indoors, which is now gone, but it was Sears essentially.  Let's see we put that in I think in 2007-8, I still love it.  It's a really good dishwasher.  I wouldn't use those gel packs in it, I have never done so, but, we use the finish detergent and it seems to work the best as without rinse agent you will get some white residue.  I can wash china in it.  You do have to pre-rinse stuff that is really cooked on (my le creuset get this a lot because I bake or braise in it, but not anything you wouldn't expect.  

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Extremely happy with bosch but unfortunately the first one only lasted about 6years. Still bought another one because it cleans well and is so quiet you dont know it is running. Use the finish powerballs. Much better than powder be because you cant over fill and end up clogging the machine over time. I think that is what caused the premature failure of the first bosch

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We bought a floor model Bosch from M&M. The showroom/buying experience was easy and pleasant and we were thrilled to hear that we would have the dishwasher delivered and installed 2 days after buying it. The delivery process was a pain in the a though.

First the machine came without needed parts, so it couldn't be installed. Then, when I called the store to find out when they'd have the parts and get the dishwasher to us, I was told that it WAS already delivered and installed.

A few days later, when I called for an update, I was again told that the dishwasher was delivered and installed already. Believe it or not, this happened 4 times. When I was given a second delivery date and hadn't received anything by 5:30pm that day, I called the store and was told that the delivery already happened that day. It hadn't. Then they said it would probably still happen later that night. It didn't.

At that point, we went over to the store to find out what was going on. To a managers (or maybe owners?) credit, he told Tim we'd have the dishwasher the following day, no matter what, and we did.

So...long story short...I bought a Bosch. I'm still getting used to the fact that there's no heated dry. I keep waiting to smell old, stale water, but haven't yet. Most items - with the exception of tupperware - come out clean and dry, and I'm so relieved to have a dishwasher back that I'm pretty happy.

And despite the communication and delivery issues with M&M, I won't rule them out the next time I need an appliance. I will make sure that at least one person - whether it's the sales person or, more likely, a manager - stays constantly in the loop of my purchase status though. Dealing with multiple sales people and distribution managers was frustrating and futile.

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We bought our Miele from Candey's Hardware when they were still downtown. (That tells you how long we have had it!) No longer downtown, but same owners, I believe. They are now in Alexandria. Eric was really great, and they did their own installation.   We moved it with us from our prior house 10 years ago and it is still going strong. We got a model with not a lot of bells and whistles-it was the lowest model that still had the heated dryer. So no problems for us. And we love, love, love the top shelf for utensils. My guess is that it is a love it or hate it feature, but also might be one that a person could learn to love if using it. Kind of like the "which side" debate of where to put the dishwasher. I see that Candey's carries many brands, so I would recommend checking them out. And I don't recall if the spelling was Candy's or Candey's, but I've seen both spellings and it seems they go by the "no e" spelling here.

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Not the same owners anymore.  Eric may be working for the new folks, but the company & name was sold to someone else.  The spelling should be with an "e" (as was the name of the original proprietor downtown), but the new owners/mgt may have dropped it along the way.

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Not the same owners anymore.  Eric may be working for the new folks, but the company & name was sold to someone else.  The spelling should be with an "e" (as was the name of the original proprietor downtown), but the new owners/mgt may have dropped it along the way.

That makes sense about the name confusion. Sad to hear it was sold. Hopefully they still have the expertise and value of the old store. Any reason to not check them out or are they along the lines of Bray & Scarff now?

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We bought the Whirlpool Gold stainless model "with total coverage spray arm."  I couldn't be happier.  We decided against the Bosch because of the bipolar nature of anecdotes from friends along with a warning from a repair person (this could be bunk, I don't know) that Bosch parts are made in two places and you don't know if you will get a quality one or a crap one.  We went with Costco because they beat everyone else by at least $100 after installation was included, and even though they said it would take two weeks, two nice young men showed up in two days and installed it the day before Thanksgiving.  Note:  They do not UN-install, so if you are not comfortable unhooking water lines and an electrical cord, go elsewhere.

So far it's been great, although I like the Cascade detergent better than the Finish.  I had to crank the rinse agent adjustor to the max for the Finish to wash off the glasses in the rinse.  I do not wash the dishes before they go in, although I do rinse off chunky stuff.  I use the sensor cycle and everything comes out sparkly clean, it's amazingly quiet compared to the old Maytag, and it washed Christmas dishes and glasses from seven people along with all the serving pieces in a single load.  FWIW, this one may be a decent choice.

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I have a dishwasher that seems to have been specifically designed to NOT hold dishes. The vertical thingies on the racks are either too far apart or too close together and it has one of those silverware holders that are attached to the door.

I'm just venting after an "incident" occurred last night while loading the damn thing. I'm not proud of my behavior, but that fucking dishwasher deserved what it got.

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Oy. I just found out that my new house has a Bosch refrigerator and dishwasher. They are 4 years old.

For the upcoming bundle of joy, my parents bought us a basic Bosch that includes a half-load setting (Silence Plus 44dDa).  We adore it; completely silent, easy to fill, gorgeous complement to the kitchen interior.  Cleans like a dream, no performance issues we have noted, although it's still less than three months old.  It will get a ton of mileage in the near future; will keep you posted on how it holds up.

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I don't know which Bosch dishwasher you have, but mine washes dishes (and glasses) beautifully every time, is whisper quiet and holds a ton of dishes. can't say anything towards the fridge. I can say the Samsung range that came with my house makes me want to poke out my eyes some days. Total Love/Hate with the induction burner and the microwave was a total piece of shit.

I feel better now

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I realize this is a dishwasher thread, but could you briefly expand on your likes and especially dislikes about the induction?  Is it just that range or induction generally?  

I thought we had a thread on induction ranges, but I did a google search and cannot find it.  Now this is bothering me.  Also let us now how you like the Bosch fridge.  My Kenmore is fine, but very cold, even when you adjust the settings so it is much warmer than the factory recommended setting (i.e. it still freezes stuff in other sections of the fridge and I have adjusted the settings.  I recently got really annoyed when the hardboiled eggs I put in the meat drawer were frozen.  (This is also off topic, I am pretty sure we have an appliance thread. Will have to start looking in the index now.)

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Our rule with dishwashers is now that if it is no longer cleaning the dishes and there are no obviousl problems resolvable via the manual, we replace the damned thing.   Our prior Kenmore diswasher is the last Kenmore appliance we will ever buy.  It had a design flaw which caused the gasket protecting the electronics to leak within a year, killing it in mid-November before Thanksgiving.  The Sears service people took over 8 weeks and 4 visits to fix it. . .that's right, we were without a working dishwasher for Thanksgiving, Hannukah, and several other major entertainment events.  We were not amused.  At that point, we decided that if it broke again, out it was going.  It did, and the Bosch replacement is working fine.  We're not crazy about the lower rack design on the Bosch, but we can work with it. 

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My Bosch dishwasher (same model as KMangos, I think) just died at the age of 5 years and 1 month.

This is the third dishwasher in 20 years.  Bosch replaced a KitchenAid which replaced a GE the builder installed.  Each successive machine lasted less time than the previous.  We're a small family, I'm the only one who runs the dishwasher, and I'm not hard on things.  So I wonder what's up.  

I'm tempted by Miele, because of the built for 20 years philosophy.  The racks seem intelligently designed and maybe the water softening feature will help.   Any bad experience with maintenance/repair? 

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We have had our Bosch (not sure the exact model, but likely a base model) since about 2007 ish, and the only issue is one of the snaps on the bottom for the tilt racks is broken, but (knock on wood) it seems to be plugging away.  It might be your water?  We have had some issues with other small appliances and our hot water heater because we have a huge amount of minerals in our water, especially calcium, that especially in heating units calcifies.  We have a condo in Arlington County, and can't fit in a filter and normal hot water tank in the space it would need to go.  It is so bad we have thought about going to an electric instant heating because it is smaller and we could likely fit in an in-unit filter if we did that.  We probably will when we have to next replace the hot water tank.  It is our first line of defense, so it seems to take the brunt of the hard water, but you can see it on our shower heads and sink faucets too.  And I decalcify stuff a lot. Our dishwasher definitely likes it rinse aid for that reason too.  Never had a Miele.  Good luck on your research, do you have any idea why the others broke down?  It might be worth talking to someone with some experience and see if there may be a pattern?  (Our 5 year old HVAC is having problems and the mechanic said that units are meant to be outside (although how many condos have them on balconies) and that is just what it's going to be like, our previous unit lasted about 15 years, so I am going to do more research this go around.)

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Thanks.  And, yes, I do think calcification is at the root of the current problem -- machine is not draining properly and neither chemical nor mechanical means have solved that.  My plumber recently mentioned that our (D.C.) water supply seems to brutalize the rubber parts of our toilets -- not just hardness but apparently some sand/grit.   I think we'll address this with a whole house filter.   Also I see calcification near the gasket around the dishwasher door.  So this time around I'm looking at dishwasher that have water softening mechanisms.  My husband hates rinse aid (can always taste and/or smell it, so I don't have that line of defense!) . ((fwiw, the plumber and I had the conversation about water quality in the context of discussing a tankless heater and he said you need extraordinarily fine filters for those -- he's pro tankless and has one at home but suggested both a whole house filter and one specifically for the tankless unit.))

All that said, the reason that this is a replace rather than repair moment is that the plastic piece that functions as a door handle and a panel surrounding the hidden controls snapped (during ordinary use).  Can't tell if it was a poor material choice on their part or a bad installation (latch is a little sticky, dishwasher itself isn't as securely anchored as it might be) or what -- it's not like I use superhuman strength to open the door!

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, smithhemb said:

My Bosch dishwasher (same model as KMangos, I think) just died at the age of 5 years and 1 month.

This is the third dishwasher in 20 years.  Bosch replaced a KitchenAid which replaced a GE the builder installed.  Each successive machine lasted less time than the previous.  We're a small family, I'm the only one who runs the dishwasher, and I'm not hard on things.  So I wonder what's up.  

I'm tempted by Miele, because of the built for 20 years philosophy.  The racks seem intelligently designed and maybe the water softening feature will help.   Any bad experience with maintenance/repair? 

We had repeated problems with our Miele and replaced it after about 6 years because replacement (with a Bosch) was cheaper than the expensive repairs.

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So I purchased a Bosch D/W with concealed controls about 14 years ago.  It ran flawlessly for 12 years with absolutely no issues.  It ran a minimum of 1/day sometimes 2/day based on entertainment.  I never rinse the dishes they go from table to D/W and the Bosch was perfect.  You cannot get a quieter D/W either.  When the original Bosch finally stopped working, I replaced with the newer version of their concealed control model.  Again, 1/day minimum, runs without issue and dishes/pots/pans are spotless.  NOTE:  the newer dishwashers (Model and Brand specific) require a rinse-aid to work properly.  If the rinse-aid is not used, the dishes will not dry properly.  Since SEARS, BestBuy and HHGreg carry many different lines, they all price guarantee and price match. Many times offering free delivery and install which even though a D/W is a very easy install, for the low or almost no price it costs to have installed now it is worth it + they haul away the old appliance(s).

No, I do not work for any manufacturer or have anything to do with Bosch or any of its related subsidiaries, appliances or anything directly related to them.

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Turns out I'm not the only one who had the problem with the plastic door handle/faceplate breaking.  Bumped into this picture on the Bosch website while looking at models with built in water softeners.  What it's showing is how the plastic piece that sits on top (here broken off, inverted, reoriented, and placed on the counter top) cracks and separates from the metal door.bosch diswasher is a dud

The newer models replaced the buttons on the right with a touch sensitive flat panel and I can find a model with what appears to be a metal handle (attached to the front rather than the top of the door).  So I guess I can avoid that problem in the next machine.  Racks look better designed too.  So maybe I'll give Bosch another try.  We have loved the quiet and the cleaning has been slow but acceptable.  No reliability issues until now.

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Likely the metal handle will resolve.  Also for a quicker cycle, on the new models there is an option for Express cycle - that may help with time issues. Not sure when appliance years end (I believe they are like cars so around September/October) but I am pretty certain, deals can be had on last year's model(s).

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