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Taylor Gourmet Deli, Local Sub Chain in Numerous Area Locations - All Stores Are Closing


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I actually approve of a change to a local breadmaker. Seems like an environmentally friendly and a sound logistical move.

I have had three real frustrations with Taylor, the first was that too many times I walked over from my office (not a short trek) to find a sign in the window saying that they were either closed or opening late because of a late bread delivery, so this solves that main frustration, and in comparison the other two frustrations are rather minor and unimportant. I am not from Philly, so whether they use Sarcone bread or not means absolutely nothing to me.

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I agreed that they’re guilty of misleading their customers. But there are major violations and minor transgressions, and for me a largely undetectable change in the bread counts as a pretty small trespass, far below the sins of, say, industrialized “organic” agriculture or factory farmed “free-range” eggs.

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Restaurants have outdated web sites, with menus that are no longer available, incorrect hours of operation, specials that are no longer honored...I think that sometimes actually informing people of changes falls through the cracks because so much time goes into *making* substantive change. True, Taylor should have removed references to the supplier when the supplier was no longer used. Menus should have been updated. But Taylor is hardly the only perpetrator of these kinds of inaccuracies. I'm going to cut them some slack.

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My issue wasn't and isn't any kind of "malfeasance" or legal transgression. Have no idea about that. I just wrote that I found it pretty disappointing. It's about their intent from the day they switched bread suppliers 'till today and likely tomorrow.

Absolutely true that many places (restaurant and otherwise) don't update customers on various changes or have out of date websites or materials. That's to be expected, excused and understood. Usually, it doesn't matter since the business is about what customers are buying anyway. I don't care about a supplier being changed. I just care about what I'm buying.

What got my attention here wasn't simply that they changed a supplier and were slow to update their materials. It was four things:

-1) the fact that, if the City Paper piece is accurate (more on that below), they knowingly and intentionally tried to persuade customers they were doing X when really they were doing Y

-2) that even after they'd been outed and given a chance by the reporter to explain, apologize, take responsibility, something, they didn't (as the article makes clear)

-3) that this wasn't just any supplier that was changed--it was arguably their single most significant supplier fundamental to their brand and value if one considers the Sarcones name was the one they chose to trumpet at the top of their menu boards, on their menus, on their website and in many interviews with outlets like Washington Biz Journal, WashPost, QSR Magazine or blogs. Here's a link to the QSR piece as just one recent (post bread vendor switch) example:

http://www.qsrmagazine.com/articles/ones_to_watch/141/taylorgourmet-1.phtml

and, here's another link to a blog entry with which TG seems to have cooperated. This from fall, 2010 after the time when they allegedly stopped sourcing from Sarcones.

http://bethesdafoodie.blogspot.com/2010/09/taylor-gourmet-welcome-to-our-hood.html

there are many more you can google but all make a big deal about just one ingredient: Sarcones bread. And, that's becasue Sarcones IS Philadelphia and TG's whole positioning is Philly sandwiches in DC.

-4) finally, and this is maybe the most important thing, I think they totally deserve to be cut some slack...if they'd just freakin' own up to this or apologize for it in a simple, straightforward and honest way. In doing so, they could correct any record about the City Paper reporting. They could explain as necessary. Most important though, they could just own the mistake. That's easy to do but, as with many businesses that become scandalized, they're slow to own a mistake until the clamor becomes overwhelming or the business begins to suffer. TG could do this easily by posting on a few well-subscribed blogs like DR, by working with the City Paper reporter, or even through their own platforms like:

http://www.taylorgourmet.com

http://taylorgourmet.wordpress.com/

My view: even with the less good bread that I wish they hadn't switched to, they make a pretty good sandwich. Nothing like something like Bunk (Portland, OR and probably my favorite sandwich place in America) but, as Rocks pointed out, can't put them lower than Lost Dog or the other chain sandwich spots in the dining guide on a food quality basis. They're better than that. And that's what makes this so very disappointing. If was another sandwich chain X, one might say, "well who the hell cares, X puts out crap anyway" but TG is better than that. And with being better and having big aspirations should come more respect for their customers.

They lied to their customers and then they tried to ignore it and hope it'd just go away. And maybe, even in spite of City Paper and the current buzz around this, it will. But it'd be super refreshing and cool if one or both of the owners simply took the opportunity to say:

We're sorry. We learned something valuable from this. We remain committed to quality and deliciousness. oh, and 10% off to anyone who mentions DR.com for February :)

Other posters here shouldn't have to defend or explain their actions. They're perfectly capable of doing that themselves and it'd make all the difference in the world while saying a lot about how they plan to grow their business and how they value their customers. That wouldn't cost them a thing. And I bet it'd drive trial (new customers) and loyalty (repeat customers) even higher than it was before.

They should do that. And they should do it asap.

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Have to add one more observation to this as I was at TG today (and did have a decent sandwich to be fair).:

They've been super aggressive at marketing, not only giving interviews to a large number of local and national media outlets ranging from the NY Times, WashPost and QSR magazine to Dwell, Wash Biz Journal and even Travel & Leisure. Beyond giving those interviews enthusiastically and always--without fail--trumpeting their commitment to Philly roots and Philly (Sarcones) bread, they've actually framed all the print pieces and hung them on the walls in the shops, where they remain today. Virtually every one (there are more than 20) has Sarcone's as the centerpiece of their story and their main point of uniqueness. The most egregious one on their wall: a September, 2010 extensive article about locally focused food businesses that cited the DC Lobster Truck with its Maine roots and others. In that piece, there's actually a highlighted box with headline: "The Key to Success: Authenticity" and goes on to again cite TG, their wonderful Sarcones bread, etc, etc.

Here's the link to the WBJ article from Sept: http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2010/09/13/focus1.html

And here's the key excerpt from that same article titled "Growing popularity of hometown flavors is bringing new restaurants, food trucks and changing menus to D.C." | Washington Business Journal

"Authenticity: Success’s secret ingredient

Taylor Gourmet’s Casey Patten and his partner David Mazza knew the secret to a great Philly hoagie was in the bread, so they went to great lengths to get rolls shipped from Sarconne’s bakery in Philadelphia."

Conversely, according to Reitz and City Paper, TG stopped sourcing bread from Sarcones that same September (excerpt from CP below). And, as of today, the printed menus in their stores STILL advertise the Sarcones link prominently. Seems pretty clear by any reasonable measure that they are knowingly and intentionally still trying to represent something so foundational that simply isn't true.

If City Paper isn't accurate, then the TG founders should come clean and say so; tell their side. If it is accurate, they should come public and simply apologize and move on. Every day that passes with their stores still promoting Sarcones as they are...and with the owners still remaining silent...speaks loudly as to whether this was an "oversight" or something much more intentional and calculated. It really stinks of hypocrisy as no oversight could. Taylor Gourmet should have a higher standard than this for honesty and the "authenticity" they've promoted so very hard. That they don't is deeply disappointing. Yes, the sandwiches are better than Lost Dog and Pot Belly...clearly that's true though they'd be so much better still wtih better bread and more careful preparation. But when a place attracts customers by loudly and frequently promoting itself as something it isn't, is that just okay because, well, stuff happens and some might not be able to tell the difference in bread? That's tough to swallow.

From Reitz's City Paper's Jan 14th article:

"During my first interview with Patten, he described in detail the bread transportation arrangements. According to Patten, 500 to 1,000 rolls make the trip down Interstate 95 every day. And when I asked about future expansion plans, he told me that if his arrangement with Sarcone’s ever fell through, he had a back-up Philadelphia bread supplier.

During a follow-up interview, Patten’s story changed significantly. I had pressed him for a ride on the bread-delivery van, to no avail. After several requests, Patten made a surprising admission: Taylor had stopped using Sarcone’s a few weeks earlier. He said capacity concerns forced him to switch to a Washington-area bakery as his business expanded. He declined to name his new supplier.

I followed up with a call to Louis Sarcone Jr., a fourth-generation baker and vice president of the bakery. He confirmed Taylor no longer uses his bread. He told me they actually stopped purchasing the rolls back in September."

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I'm tired of all my north Bethesda options, so I took the Bethesda Circulator over to Taylor Gourmet today. The Ritner Street (Taylor Home roasted Angus beef, sharp provolone, lettuce, tomato, onions, added hot peppers) was dry as a bone - no juiciness to the roast beef, not enough dressing, slightly stale roll - and tasted (& smelled) of nothing but the onions. Add slapdash assembly and a $6.90 price tag, and it's an choice I won't be making in the future.

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I'm tired of all my north Bethesda options, so I took the Bethesda Circulator over to Taylor Gourmet today. The Ritner Street (Taylor Home roasted Angus beef, sharp provolone, lettuce, tomato, onions, added hot peppers) was dry as a bone - no juiciness to the roast beef, not enough dressing, slightly stale roll - and tasted (& smelled) of nothing but the onions. Add slapdash assembly and a $6.90 price tag, and it's an choice I won't be making in the future.

@Heather - yeah, I don't think the roast beef at Taylor is a winner. I took one togo and loaded it up with pickles from my fridge to try to add moisture and still wasn't digging. In general though I am a huge fan of Taylor Gourmet. I eat there roughly 4 or 5 times a month. But I recommend getting the hot hoagies like the meatball (callowhill), chicken cutlet (esp the Ben Franklin) or the roast pork. The sauce/juice with those meats complements the bread perfectly. The coldcut sandwiches to me are overwhelmed by the bread.

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@Heather - yeah, I don't think the roast beef at Taylor is a winner. I took one togo and loaded it up with pickles from my fridge to try to add moisture and still wasn't digging. In general though I am a huge fan of Taylor Gourmet. I eat there roughly 4 or 5 times a month. But I recommend getting the hot hoagies like the meatball (callowhill), chicken cutlet (esp the Ben Franklin) or the roast pork. The sauce/juice with those meats complements the bread perfectly. The coldcut sandwiches to me are overwhelmed by the bread.

Agree 100%. The roast pork italian (Pattisson Ave) is outstanding, the chicken cutlets are very good, but the roast beef usually falls flat and seems overcooked and dry to me.

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I think they are resting on their reputation. Last week they gave me the wrong sandwich. There is no longer and expiditer making sure things go right. It was a turkey sandwich that i took back to my office and it was pretty bad. Dry meat, poor proportion of meet to cheese and bread was bok not the BEST it was when they first openned.

I called and they said next time I come in they would comp a sandwich. I got a cheicken cutlet sndwich with cheese and pesto. The ratio of cheese to meet was poor. The chicken was overcooked.

I think they ned a restart back to when they first opened.

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dry meat

I've found that their in-house roast turkey and roast beef to be consistently dry - and the turkey has been on the dry side since they opened up shop. I've found the best way to deal with that is to smother it with fresh mozz, proscuitto, and pesto :) . That being said, I have to (sadly) agree with the chorus that there has been a slippage in consistency and quality. The little things that come with proper sandwich construction such as consistent application of toppings and bread/filling ratio have been off the last few times I've been there.

However, while I've cut back on my visits they've hinted on Twitter that an eggplant parm hoagie is in development. If that actually happens I'll come crawling back because eggplant parm is my sandwich kryptonite.

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I hadn't been to Taylor's since they changed from the Sarcone's bread, so I stopped in for a Market Street (pork, red peppers, arugula, fresh mozz). While my pork was very juicy, the bread got very soggy on my 5 minute trek back to work. The sesame crust/outside of the bread was intact, but the rest of the bread totally collapsed from the pork juices. I even skipped getting the oil on it, so I fear what would have happened to the bread then. Aside from the bread , the sandwich was pretty darn good. I hope they find a bread source here in DC that really can replicate more of a Sarcone/Philly hoagie roll that has the chew and can hold up under some juicey fillings.

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I've never done takeout, so I can't respond to the soggy bread. But the Ninth Street Italian sandwich I had from the K St location last week was spot on, no sogginess by the time I finished it, and perfect balance of ingredients.

About 6 months ago, I thought they were inconsistent at both K Street and Bethesda - sometimes too little meat, sometimes wrong balance of ingredients, but since then, I've had great sandwiches from both locations consistently. (I find myself at one or the other once or twice a month).

My regular sandwiches are the 9th Street Italian with hot peppers, the Pattison Avenue (this is the one that can be thrown off by balance - if they skimp on the roast pork or overload the rabe it's not good), or the Vine Street Expressway.

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Tried the Pattison Avenue today. Not liking it, to the point that I have eaten a quarter of a small sub and am contemplating throwing the rest away - a major irritation considering it cost almost $8. The broccoli rabe is too sparse, the the meat is heavy and greasy, and the whole thing is just heavy and bland. I was expecting a little more flavor and finesse.

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Yeah--haven't been back in several months with the quality declines and following the bread caper. Funny enough, last week I was in Philadelphia and had a chance to visit Sarcones in the Italian Market. Had never before been there. Damn--that's good sandwich bread. Can totally see why a serious sandwich place really focused on doing something special and great would use Sarcones or, at least, high-quality bread like it. Sadly, we now know Taylor Gourmet isn't that kind of sandwich place. What a shame.

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Tried the Pattison Avenue today. Not liking it, to the point that I have eaten a quarter of a small sub and am contemplating throwing the rest away - a major irritation considering it cost almost $8. The broccoli rabe is too sparse, the the meat is heavy and greasy, and the whole thing is just heavy and bland. I was expecting a little more flavor and finesse.

It's a heavier sandwich, but I've never found it bland. Sounds to me like you may have had a poorly executed sandwich. I'm firmly convinced the Pattison Ave is the best sandwich to get at Taylor.

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I would never describe the Pattison Ave as having finesse, or any of the sandwiches there, for that point. The word "Gourmet" in the store title is from that perspective misleading - this is South Philly, food-with-attitude, feed the bellies of blue-collar workers kind of food.

That said, I've also never found it bland, but I have pointed out before that this is both their best and worst sandwich. When the balance is right with bread, meat, cheese, and rabe, it's amazing, but getting the ratios off can muck up this sandwich quickly.

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Tried the Pattison Avenue today. Not liking it, to the point that I have eaten a quarter of a small sub and am contemplating throwing the rest away - a major irritation considering it cost almost $8. The broccoli rabe is too sparse, the the meat is heavy and greasy, and the whole thing is just heavy and bland. I was expecting a little more flavor and finesse.

I think it tastes very similar to DiNic's in Philly, although I wasn't as wowed as I thought I would be with that either. I dunno what was missing for me. Maybe like some spicy mustard or something. It just isn't my favorite combo of things.

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Yeah--haven't been back in several months with the quality declines and following the bread caper. Funny enough, last week I was in Philadelphia and had a chance to visit Sarcones in the Italian Market. Had never before been there. Damn--that's good sandwich bread. Can totally see why a serious sandwich place really focused on doing something special and great would use Sarcones or, at least, high-quality bread like it. Sadly, we now know Taylor Gourmet isn't that kind of sandwich place. What a shame.

Do you happen to know where the Italian Store gets its bread? Their hard rolls can certainly stand up to these ingredients.

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Do you happen to know where the Italian Store gets its bread? Their hard rolls can certainly stand up to these ingredients.

I don't but I'm sure others on the board will. I'm not a baker or bread expert though I try to pay close attention to those who are like when Mark Furstenberg shared some of his knowledge in the City Paper piece from spring (or when lperry posts anything about baking for that matter). I'd guess one could create a firm or strong roll without great flavor if that was the goal but not sure. Obvious point but great bread is just more labor, knowledge and resource (time, $) intensive; cost reduction is why TG moved away from Sarcones.

Italian Store is one of those places I've known about for a long time and never tried--very remiss but your post is a good reminder. Not as convenient as DC and MD for us but we metro, drive, bike and walk for food so will get over there. B)

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I've now settled on a Race Street with extra pesto here - the extra flavor kicks up what's missing from the old bread. It's a decent sandwich and more consistent than the Pattison Ave. Of course 12 months ago 'decent' was an off day there. Sigh.

On the other hand, the $4 cannoli needs to go back to the drawing board. While it's there, they should teach the staff how to fill them.

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Had a great visit yesterday afternoon. I never expected to have so many menu choices available. I had the Pattison Avenue with roasted pork, broccoli rabe, and sharp provolone. The sandwich (and one of my companions') had a bit of a spicy kick to it. I don't recall seeing on the menu any indication that it would be this way. I'll probably ask next time if it can be toned down a bit.

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After the bread switch, there's really nothing else that they can do that would eclipse that fiasco IMO. I've found that the are catering (literally, I hear of office lunches) to a larger audience so mayo and mustard don't really surprise me. That's more of an opt-in thing that I can ignore, the bread switch was the soul-draining move. On a happy note, I still go there for the Dolci Gelato.

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Oh, yeah? What about cheesesteaks?

Question for Tim: with all due respect (and that respect is genuine), why did you debase Frank Ruta by bothering to write this puff piece? Think about it.

Does everyone remember the problems we had ten years ago with local restaurant "non-chain" chains coming into power? Those exact same problems are happening again, except with different restaurateurs, and the food's no better now than it was back then. Think about it.

And writers, critics, bloggers: if you think I'm talking about you ... you're correct.

Good heavens, what would Eric Ripert think of all this? <insert Peggy Ashcroft voice> It's positively dreadful.

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Oh, yeah? What about cheesesteaks?

Wow. Cannot believe this piece was written with zero mention of the intentional bread deception perpetrated months ago. Not a word. The wonderful Philly boys showed then they cared way more about marketing than they did product. Now they're doing a "recon" for the best bread to use for cheesesteaks? Are you kidding me? Really disappointing; especially given the author. I guess "puff piece" is one way to describe it.

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Wow. Cannot believe this piece was written with zero mention of the intentional bread deception perpetrated months ago. Not a word. The wonderful Philly boys showed then they cared way more about marketing than they did product. Now they're doing a "recon" for the best bread to use for cheesesteaks? Are you kidding me? Really disappointing; especially given the author. I guess "puff piece" is one way to describe it.

Actually, there is a mention of it in the third to last paragraph ("That helps explain why Patten and Mazza made the decision last year to create their own hoagie rolls with Hakimi’s help. It was a smart move. What wasn’t so smart was the partners’ slow-footed reaction in informing the public about the switch. The Washington City Paper eventually broke the news in January as part of a cover story about the strange, reverse-locavore trend of buying bread from faraway bakeries; the revelation quickly turned into a PR nightmare for the owners.") But it puts it in the kindest possible terms.

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Wow. Cannot believe this piece was written with zero mention of the intentional bread deception perpetrated months ago. Not a word. The wonderful Philly boys showed then they cared way more about marketing than they did product. Now they're doing a "recon" for the best bread to use for cheesesteaks? Are you kidding me? Really disappointing; especially given the author. I guess "puff piece" is one way to describe it.

see page 2.

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Actually, there is a mention of it in the third to last paragraph ("That helps explain why Patten and Mazza made the decision last year to create their own hoagie rolls with Hakimi’s help. It was a smart move. What wasn’t so smart was the partners’ slow-footed reaction in informing the public about the switch. The Washington City Paper eventually broke the news in January as part of a cover story about the strange, reverse-locavore trend of buying bread from faraway bakeries; the revelation quickly turned into a PR nightmare for the owners.") But it puts it in the kindest possible terms.

Point taken but have to disagree with Carman's characterization of the decision. I think the piece goes beyond "kindest possible terms" to whitewashing. Think the bread switcheroo was a slyly deceptive move and simply bad judgment in that a) it replaced a superior product (Sarcones) with an inferior one, b ) they'd marketed the hell out of the Sarcones connection way beyond the time the switch was surreptitiously made and c) they never acknowledged or apologized for the deception. If this Patten quote was really true:

“One of the texture components that has to be right, since you’re doing sandwiches, is the bread,” says Patten. “That elasticity and pull and chew that you get along with the meat . . .

....they'd still be serving all the other sandwiches on Sarcones. This article would have you believe they switched from Sarcones in search of better bread instead of cheaper ingredient cost. That implication is both revisionist and laughable IMHO.

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I don't care if they're a local "non-chain" chain, if this was a puff piece from Carmen or if they use adorable puppy parts in the sandwiches* -- if this means I can get an edible cheesesteak south of the Delaware Bridge I'm all for it. I'm a bit dubious because every sandwich I've had from Taylor looked much better on paper than in reality. If the rolls and fillings end up being decent, I will eat there.

* OK, that might be taking it a little far :mellow:

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I've got two words that will scare the owners of Taylor Gourmet; Primo Hoagies.

They opened in downtown Philadelphia, not very far from Sarcones and all the local places that make Phillie hoagies what they are. And they did gangbuster business from the start. Why? They are authentic and good and reasonable. Nothing "Gourmet" about them. Real blue collar food and good prices. Recently visited Ocean City MD in June and ate their twice. If they opened in the DC or the suburbs, Taylor Gourmet would close up shop soon after. There's just no way they could compete.

http://primohoagies.com/main/?page_id=14

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I'm there probably once a month, my regular sandwiches remain the 9th Street Italian with hot peppers, the Pattison Avenue (pork, sharp provolone, broccoli rabe), and the Vine Street Expressway (chicken cutlet, pesto, sharp provolone, prosciutto).

These days, I find the sandwiches to be remarkably consistent. Tasty (not gourmet - the shop name is a misnomer), reasonably priced (the large at less than $10 is enough for 2 meals if you add chips and a drink), fast, and pleasant service. Mostly I go to the K St location, sometimes Bethesda, almost always at dinner rather than lunch.

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First visit today after craving a great sub for months.....I must admit, I think I ordered wrong.....got (I think), the Pattison Avenue with roast pork and broccoli rabe....rather than just a good old-fashioned cold cut sub.....now I'm as big a garlic fan as anybody but i...was....literally....knocked over backward by the smell...then the taste of garlic on this sandwich...I'm guessing the pork was nicely prepared and tasty but I'd defy ANYone to say anything one way or another in the face of that garlic barrage..........so now i'm bummed....i don't get over in that direction often and i think i blew my shot on a bad order..............

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First visit today after craving a great sub for months.....I must admit, I think I ordered wrong.....got (I think), the Pattison Avenue with roast pork and broccoli rabe....rather than just a good old-fashioned cold cut sub.....now I'm as big a garlic fan as anybody but i...was....literally....knocked over backward by the smell...then the taste of garlic on this sandwich...I'm guessing the pork was nicely prepared and tasty but I'd defy ANYone to say anything one way or another in the face of that garlic barrage..........so now i'm bummed....i don't get over in that direction often and i think i blew my shot on a bad order..............

Pattison Ave is my go-to at Taylor and I've probably had it about 20 times. They are a bit inconsistent, but it's a great order there and I prefer it to any of their cold cut subs by far. I also prefer the chicken cutlets to the cold cut options.

Hoagies aside, their risotto balls, cookies, and cannollie are very good. Some of the salads, such as the Love Park with pastini, are quite good too.

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I just walked by the Taylor Gourmet in Bethesda and a man on the street dressed as a jar of mayonnaise told me to go in for a free 6 inch hoagie, so I did. It is a celebration of their one year anniversary in Bethesda. I believe this special give-away runs through 8pm today and only at the Bethesda location. The line was almost out the door by 11:30am

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Hoagies aside, their risotto balls, cookies, and cannollie are very good.

It's kind of amusing ordering cannoli from the 14th st Taylor's. I've done so four or five times in the last couple of months and the experience is always exactly the same. As soon as you mention a cannoli as part of your order the cashier turns around and asks someone in the kitchen if there are cannolis available. Sometimes the ensuing conversation is in English and sometimes it's in Spanish but what inevitably follows is a lot of peeking atop shelves (for the shells) and opening of random refrigerator doors (for the filling) before it's finally determined whether or not they're available that night (usually the answer is no).

I don't think they get a lot of cannoli orders.

The irony is when they are available, they're actually pretty good.

On a separate note has anyone else found that someone in the kitchen here has a *really* heavy hand with the black pepper?

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Just a bump to note that the Dupont Circle location is now open, right across from Boqueria.

I just tried a "Washington Avenue", with roasted pork and provolone. At least they say it was pork...it was impossible to tell what kind of meat it was under all of that rosemary. Just way, way over-seasoned. The risotto balls were really good though, and the cold subs people were eating around me looked good enough that I'll probably return to try them.

Much better service than the Bethesda location...ran really smoothly at a busy lunch.

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The new Penn Quarter location (7th and E) appeared open today, but lacking signage. If the nearby City Vista location is any indication, this store should do pretty well. The local sandwich market has already lost the nearby Potbelly, for better or worse.

I did hit the City Vista location last week. Despite the rapid expansion, reduction in bread quality, and often careless sandwich assemly, the Vine Street (Prosciutto, Pesto,Sharp Provolone) remains my favorite lunch option.

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