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Home Gardens - Tips, Tricks, Methods, and the Bounty


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Don't pinch it back until it starts growing quickly. You do know about pinching basil...?

Thanks, porcupine. You're right - in the past week, it's really perked back up. Leaves are fuller and greener in the past few days. Just looks much more healthy all of the sudden. Will start pinching when it stops raining (whenever that might be!) :unsure:

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Mmm, harvested my first few tomatoes the other day, Sungold, a cherry type. I also have Black Krim, Mortgage Lifter, Lemon Boy, Brandywine, Purple Cherokee, & a bunch of Sweet 100s, none of which look as healthy as the Sungold. I fell for the hype & got some Earthboxes to plant them in, but received them a little late, so we'll see how they do....

I only have hot peppers, not partial to bell, 4 Biker Billy jalapenos (loaded w/ peppers!), 6 little habanero, & a Kung Pao. Also a Tasty Jade asian cucumber, vietnamese cilantro (which doesn't bolt like the regular stuff), basil, thyme, tarragon, chocolate mint, all mixed in the flower beds (except for the mint, which is contained). Also, my great joy, figs-just because they're so cool-looking!-all from Paradise Nursery in VA Beach, who are just the nicest folks-Celeste, Sandy's Strawberry Verte, 2 mystery, Violette di Negronne, & Conadria. All my plants are loving this rain, hope everyone has a great growing season....

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Hi All,

I thought I'd turn to the DR collective brain to ask a question about my tomato plants. I have 2, bought early in June and planted in large containers. They are about 8 and 6 feet tall, and have yet to hold on to one damn tomato that they've grown (all of 3 so far). Now, they have some blossoms again and I see one marble size tomato.

My question is, it's almost August and I don't see reaping a tomato crop anywhere in sight. I've grown plants before with so much success I couldn't give them all away. And to my recollection, I got good produce by July.

Does anyone else have this problem? Can I hope for a late crop? Why are they almost to my roof line yet not showing any fruit?

Thank you!

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Hi All,

I thought I'd turn to the DR collective brain to ask a question about my tomato plants. I have 2, bought early in June and planted in large containers. They are about 8 and 6 feet tall, and have yet to hold on to one damn tomato that they've grown (all of 3 so far). Now, they have some blossoms again and I see one marble size tomato.

My question is, it's almost August and I don't see reaping a tomato crop anywhere in sight. I've grown plants before with so much success I couldn't give them all away. And to my recollection, I got good produce by July.

Does anyone else have this problem? Can I hope for a late crop? Why are they almost to my roof line yet not showing any fruit?

Thank you!

Did you prune the plant as it was growing? As the tomato plants grow branches from the main 'trunk' additional branches start inbetween (think of a Y with an additional line growing out of the top). These need to be clipped off so that the plant spends energy on producing fruit, not green.

I have had fruit drop of the plants in the past, but that was usually due to various animals in the garden. Do you have deer, racoon, or other wildlife in your area?

BTW, what type of tomato are you growing?

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Did you prune the plant as it was growing? As the tomato plants grow branches from the main 'trunk' additional branches start inbetween (think of a Y with an additional line growing out of the top). These need to be clipped off so that the plant spends energy on producing fruit, not green.

I have had fruit drop of the plants in the past, but that was usually due to various animals in the garden. Do you have deer, racoon, or other wildlife in your area?

BTW, what type of tomato are you growing?

Thanks. We definitely have some vermin around here. If something got to them, it would be a squirrel. The plants have a cage of chicken wire around them, so it would have to be a small animal.

I've never pruned my tomato plants, but that makes perfect sense. The are amazingly tall. Taller than ANY tomato plant I've ever had. We heavily doused them with Miracle Grow early on.

And, I do remember one plant is an Early Girl, and can't remember what the other one is. All I remember is that it should yield a bigger tomato.

Can I prune now? Any corrective actions?

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Quick question -- How much sun are these plants getting? I have a few that I planted as an experiment in a shadier spot of the back yard (no more than 3-4 hours direct sunlight) that pretty much share some of the characteristics that you describe.

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Quick question -- How much sun are these plants getting? I have a few that I planted as an experiment in a shadier spot of the back yard (no more than 3-4 hours direct sunlight) that pretty much share some of the characteristics that you describe.

Great question. They get partial sun, whereas my previous plants got full sun. I thought about moving them away from the house for more exposure.

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Great question. They get partial sun, whereas my previous plants got full sun. I thought about moving them away from the house for more exposure.
They need full sun, and you might want to buy a fertilizer richer in phosphate than Miracle Gro to ensure more blossoms.
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I've never found pruning to make much of a difference. The plant might be neater, but I've done both and not seen much change in the amount of fruit. I know that goes against the grain of many generations of gardeners, but I believe that more leaves lead to healthier plants - and healthier, stronger fruit.

Your issue isn't that it's not blossoming, but that the blossoms are dropping off, right? I think critters are a possibility, but lack of sunlight will definitely bring that about too. My two cents.

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This is true. I've had pretty good luck with Espoma's "Tomato Tone."
Our situations may differ. I grow them in pots on the second floor deck, and use Miracle Gro potting soil as a starter. Then, I add Espoma's "Triple Phosphate" every two weeks or so. Generally, the balance of nutrients should be either 5-10-10 or 10-10-10 nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium, and too much nitrogen will result in plants that are quite tall, but bear no fruit.
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Where was I reading recently about tomato nutrition? Something about the plants becoming ravenous for nitrates once they set fruit, and that unless supplemented, they'd begin to scavenge nitrogen from the developing tomatoes, robbing them of flavor.

FWIW, mine got a good shot of Tomato-Tone when potted, plus pelletized lime to fend off blossom-end rot. They're potted on my deck, because it's the only place I've been able to successfully fend off the deer.

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These are great suggestions. I'll move them into the full sun and get some phosphate for them. Hopefully, I'll be frying up some green tomatoes soon! :)

Full sun and Tomato Tone. Yep. (I also use compost and manure).

But the other thing is, do you have bees? No bees, no pollination. No pollination, no 'maters. And if the blossoms aren't pollinated, they just drop right off.

People take bees for granted like they're always everywhere, like ants and mosquitoes, but no.

The wild ones are being killed off by mites. And people that used to keep bees mostly are giving up.

In DC, for example, it's against the law to keep bees.

I used to keep bees but got too much grief from the neighbors and gave up.

I sure miss those little buggers.

Maybe there are tomato varieties that don't need pollination?

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Full sun and Tomato Tone. Yep. (I also use compost and manure).

But the other thing is, do you have bees? No bees, no pollination. No pollination, no 'maters. And if the blossoms aren't pollinated, they just drop right off.

People take bees for granted like they're always everywhere, like ants and mosquitoes, but no.

The wild ones are being killed off by mites. And people that used to keep bees mostly are giving up.

In DC, for example, it's against the law to keep bees.

I used to keep bees but got too much grief from the neighbors and gave up.

I sure miss those little buggers.

Maybe there are tomato varieties that don't need pollination?

Interesting. My husband said that he heard due to all the rain we had for so many days, it really cut down on the bee pollination and that's why our first round of flowers didn't turn into tomatoes.

We definitely have bees around here. Very heavily wooded beyond my deck and we have flowers all around the house.

thanks :)

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My husband said that he heard due to all the rain we had for so many days, it really cut down on the bee pollination and that's why our first round of flowers didn't turn into tomatoes.

Wonder if that explains why we have no beans.

Tomatoes, yes, squash yes, okra yes, only a couple of cucumbers, but zero beans.

The weirdest thing about "no beans" is that I put in dozens of bean plants. Not a bean among them.

Beats me. (My first year growing beans.)

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My tomato plants (all 7 of them) are also underperforming, only one has had a decent crop, that's the Sungold, about 6' tall, lots of tiny tomatoes that taste great-but the other ones-Phah! Only one tiny tomato off of a Black Krim that now looks almost dead. I think they get plenty of sun, they're planted in Earthboxes, w/ an organic mix of Espoma plant food,seaweed, lime, they get regular water, but they don't look too good-only thing in my garden that looks vigorous is the Vietnamese coriander, almost too much so, it doesn't quite sub for regular coriander...I have a few other herbs that are thriving, purple basil, rue, tarragon, thyme, & purple fennel that I grow strictly for the foliage next to my roses...I'm looking forward to the fall gardening season, maybe I will be happier with my plants...(lots of bees, though, I have alot of agastaches, which are thriving)

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Adrian Higgins chat on WaPo.com today featured lots of posters complaining about their tomato yields this year. I too, have had a dissapointing summer of tomato growing but had put it down to other factors, such as gettinmg them outside too late, not spending enough time in the garden my letting the cherry tomato plants overwhelm the others.....maybe my soil was 'tired' (been growing tomatos in the same plot for 3/4 years now)....wonder how other folks are doing - I have hundreds of cherries and a few cherokee purples ripening but thats about it......I planted purple tomatillos and the plants are developing beautiful purple-veined husks but they seem to be hollow....

how are other folks faring this year?

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Not so well. I have two San Marzano plants, one Early Girl, and one Park's Whopper. The San Marzanos are yielding okay but the fruit have been small, and something nabbed my two almost-ripe Early Girls sometime between Saturday afternoon and last night, before I could get to them. (Since they were picked cleanly, I'm assuming raccoons or neighbors; the squirrels wouldn't have been quite so tidy.)

I've gotten nothing from the Park's Whopper as yet, but I fertilized everything last week and it's bloomed since then, so it might do something soon.

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I continue to have tomato woes. After moving my two plants to prime sun and fertilizing, they blossomed again and produced tomatoes. YAY.

Yesterday I gleefully picked my first Early Girl and it was flat and black on the bottom! Another one which was almost ready was flat and brown on the bottom.

A second larger tomato producing plant has many tomatoes which are far from picking.

The bad luck continues...

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When you fertilized, did you lime as well? That sounds an awful lot like blossom end rot. (pictures here)

Bingo!

Thank you. That's very insightful. I'd never container gardened before and that may also contribute to my problems this year(in addition to what the article pointed out). Hopefully, I'll get something out of this before the end of the season. I'm going to save this info and use it next year to get a proper start.

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When do you pick your figs and know they are ready? When the fruit looks like it is hanging/drooping instead of sticking straight out?
I go by color and softness to the touch. If you wait until they are dead ripe, the birds will get them.
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Bingo!

Thank you. That's very insightful. I'd never container gardened before and that may also contribute to my problems this year(in addition to what the article pointed out). Hopefully, I'll get something out of this before the end of the season. I'm going to save this info and use it next year to get a proper start.

There is some stuff sold in a spray bottle which is SUPPOSED to fix blossom end-rot. Don't waste your money. Lime in the container at the start of the season is what you need. What is that adage?: Too Soon Old, Too Late Wise. Wait 'Til Next Year!
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There is some stuff sold in a spray bottle which is SUPPOSED to fix blossom end-rot. Don't waste your money. Lime in the container at the start of the season is what you need. What is that adage?: Too Soon Old, Too Late Wise. Wait 'Til Next Year!
You know, we didn't have a single incident of blossom end rot at our new garden plot this year, and I didn't put any special calcium or lime products. Just lots of fertilizer -- including Tomato-Tone, Miracle Gro, compost (home grown and purchased) and manure (purchased).

According to the Espoma Products Tomato-Tone website blossom end rot is caused by both a lack of micronutrients but also dry conditions. Also, according to the Tomato Tone label this product does supply calcium, along with 15 other nutrients.

Not that I am shilling for Tomato Tone, there are other products that have a full panoply of micronutrients, this just happens to be one they sell at DeBaggio's Herbs, and I like the people there, but they had at least one other brand, just don't recall the name.

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Also, my great joy, figs-just because they're so cool-looking!-all from Paradise Nursery in VA Beach, who are just the nicest folks-Celeste, Sandy's Strawberry Verte, 2 mystery, Violette di Negronne, & Conadria. All my plants are loving this rain, hope everyone has a great growing season....
I am thinking of attending the annual NAFEX (North American Fruit Explorers) meeting this year, it's very close -- Lexington, KY. Last year was in California.

Anybody interested in coming along and helping pay for gas? I have a Toyota minivan that realistically seats five and their luggage comfortably.

Here is the link to the meeting information.

May as well throw in some other links for fruit tree growers and enthusiasts.

The Pennsylvania fruit growers association, Backyard Fruit Growers. Lots of interesting activity there. Coming soon: August 24 Organic Kiwi Production Kiwi Korners, Montour Co. 1:00-4:00pm;$10 PASA members; $15 non-members. Sept 23 & 24 Pawpaw Tours 23 Raffauf / Lancaster; 24 Weeden / Holtwood PA

Vintage Virginia Apples sells heirloom apple trees and fruit. Not to be missed: November 4, 2006: Apple Harvest Festival from 10:00 a.m.-5:00 p.m. The annual Apple Harvest Festival features an appearance by Tom Burford, aka "Professor Apple," an expert on heirloom apples.

Saturdays in the Garden at Monticello has cool food-oriented events every year -- my favorite is the annual apple tasting, also presided over by Professor Apple, this year October 21. (Tom Burford ain't no spring chicken, but apparently an apple a day does keep the doctor away, at least in his case.)

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I guess it's a little early for this, but is anyone thinking about their garden? I was happy with what I planted last year, mostly tomatoes & hot peppers, so this year I plan to 1)add a little more space & try some oddball crops-pinkeye purplehull peas, lots of lettuce/mesclun/greens, okra in the front beds 2)put in more herbs around other plantings & 3), this is a maybe, I'd like to add some bees, I'm thinking about taking a beekeeping class this spring-Anyone besides me have spring fever-how do you plan to indulge it? (ok, I'd really like to take an extended vacation in a tropical paradise, but that's not going to happen)....

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I guess it's a little early for this, but is anyone thinking about their garden? I was happy with what I planted last year, mostly tomatoes & hot peppers, so this year I plan to 1)add a little more space & try some oddball crops-pinkeye purplehull peas, lots of lettuce/mesclun/greens, okra in the front beds 2)put in more herbs around other plantings & 3), this is a maybe, I'd like to add some bees, I'm thinking about taking a beekeeping class this spring-Anyone besides me have spring fever-how do you plan to indulge it? (ok, I'd really like to take an extended vacation in a tropical paradise, but that's not going to happen)....
Yes definitely thinking about the garden. There are seed displays up in places like WalMart and Home Depot. I've already purchased rapini seeds, leek seeds, collard seeds, and chippolini seeds.

Late this fall I planted a bed of garlic, and a bed split between yellow onion (sets) and shallots. With the warm weather, all sprouted but that's supposed to be OK. This is my first year.

I plan to start as early as possible with collard greens, turnips, and Asian greens that are cold-resistant. You can plant these a few weeks before the traditional last frost date.

Still waffling on whether to try growing my own tomato seedlings under grow lights. I don't own grow lights so it may not be cost-effective to buy them, although apparently regular fluorescent bulbs are good enough.

As for bees, I have had beehives in the past but gave them up because the neighbors really hated them. You may have read about the hubbub in the Washington Post or saw a clip about it on one of the local TV news shows. Basically I had one neighbor who was terrified of killer bees attacking her children and tried to get the county to ban bee hives entirely. This in Fairfax.

Actually the beekeepers lobby is quite active in Virginia and Maryland so you can have beehives even in suburban areas but not in DC. We need bees, and the wild honeybees are vanishing due to mites that kill them. Wild solitary bees will pollinate many varieties of plants but some depend on honeybees.

Eventually I just donated the equipment to the Northern Virginia Beekeepers Association. They do have beginners classes, as does the MoCo beekeepers. Register early, they fill up fast.

Also, you need to get cracking and order your bees! They sell out early. In the past the NOVA class included a package of bees along with the class.

It is a fascinating hobby. Beekeeping tends to attract older people with high intelligence and a painstaking nature. The bees themselves prefer people with a lot of patience, and dislike people who move too quickly or abruptly, or have strong body odor, especially in their hair. I never met a beekeeper I didn't like. I am more than willing to share what little knowledge I have.

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Thanks, I may have some questions for you, as I go along. I'm going to register for the beekeeping class that starts next month & I've even ordered some bees for spring, from Rossman Apiaries, in GA. Wish me luck!

I've got lots of seed to start, too, but I usually take the easy way out & get tomato & pepper seedlings. All of my inside fluorescent lighting is dedicated to the orchids, at least until they can move out for their summer vacation. With this recent cold snap, I'm longing for spring, my favorite time of the year...Linda

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I am starting to peruse seed catalogs myself. But I have never invested in an indoor gro-light situation. Can't do it in the house as the cats would mess with the stuff, so I guess I can try the garage.

Anyway, I usually start my seeds as early as I dare in the season directly in my raised beds. Some things I just prefer to buy already started, too. Like tomatoes, peppers and various squash type plants.

I'd love to try strawberries this year. Anyone have any experience with growing these? Is it best to start from seed or can you but started plants? How early can you start?

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I'd love to try strawberries this year. Anyone have any experience with growing these? Is it best to start from seed or can you but started plants? How early can you start?
I have grown them in the past. You start with plants, which are really mostly roots with a tiny leaf area. Unfortunately, I started with ever-bearing, which doesn't produce well in the Piedmont/Tidewater area. The Virginia Cooperative Extension recommends June bearers, but also has information for the day-neutral type of everbearing strawberries.

Small Fruit for the Home Garden.

Day Neutral Strawberries

I did have very healthy plants, as this is a fairly good area for strawberries if you protect them with thick mulch (straw, hay, etc.) during the winter, although a prolonged hard freeze will probably kill them. Some winters are worse than others. The average winter doesn't seem to kill them as long as you mulch.

I would try red plastic mulch during the growing season. I got very good results using this for my tomatoes last year, which was not a good year for tomatoes.

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thistle,

If your okra turns out, please let me know your secret! I have tried 3 times (twice from seed and once from plants) and it hasn't worked. My best chance was last year from plants, but I planted too early even in mid-May. If I try again this year, it won't be until June, maybe even mid-June, from seed, and I understand it is best to let the seeds soak in water for a few days before planting. You can see some good info on okra planting at the Web site of the Maryland Cooperative Extension Service. They name some recommended varieties, but I might try some recommended at the LSU Coop site like Louisiana Velvet, from seed.

MC

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Does anybody have suggestions for what herbs might be suitable for year round indoor herb pots? I've finally gotten my rosemary well established outside and it's having no problems with the mild winter. Nonetheless, I would kill for having an endless supply of fresh flat-leaf parsley, thyme, oregano, maybe even cilantro. Can these be cultivated and maintained indoors?

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All of those seeds are easy to start indoors. Just follow the instructions or grab a book from the library. The seeds will not grow as fast as the do outside, but with some patience you can have most of those herbs in a couple of weeks. I have containers that I can take in and out of the house so that they get sun on days when the temps are high enough not to kill them.

Does anybody have suggestions for what herbs might be suitable for year round indoor herb pots? I've finally gotten my rosemary well established outside and it's having no problems with the mild winter. Nonetheless, I would kill for having an endless supply of fresh flat-leaf parsley, thyme, oregano, maybe even cilantro. Can these be cultivated and maintained indoors?
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Does anybody have suggestions for what herbs might be suitable for year round indoor herb pots? I've finally gotten my rosemary well established outside and it's having no problems with the mild winter. Nonetheless, I would kill for having an endless supply of fresh flat-leaf parsley, thyme, oregano, maybe even cilantro. Can these be cultivated and maintained indoors?

There are several pitfalls to watch for. Thyme and oregano are semi-woody perennials and will provide for you throughout the winter if grown outdoors. Growing perennials indoors can be challenging - they frequently succumb to rot or fungal infection in winter. They need plenty of light, and cool temps/low moisture in winter. It would be easier to keep them healthy outdoors.

Parsley is a biennal herb. In its second year it can get rather harsh tasting, so you might want to grow new plants each year. Also, you'd need a deep pot to accomodate the root system.

Cilantro is a very short-lived herb that bolts quickly in hot weather. I've never tried it indoors, but I know from experience that to have a continuous crop during the growing season, you need to replant every month or two.

About okra: it needs a very long growing season to fruit. Like other plants in the family Malvaceae (hibiscus, hollyhock), it grows deep roots which you would need to accomodate in deep pots if you start the plants indoors. Then you need to transplant very carefully and provide protective cover (floating row cover or coldframe) if the spring is mild. Then you need to hope for a late autumn. Nonetheless, I've grown it here (zone 6b) and gotten fruit. But I like it just as much for the flowers, which are like soft yellow mini hollyhocks. It's a lovely ornamental plant.

also a gardening geek,

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Does anybody have suggestions for what herbs might be suitable for year round indoor herb pots? I've finally gotten my rosemary well established outside and it's having no problems with the mild winter. Nonetheless, I would kill for having an endless supply of fresh flat-leaf parsley, thyme, oregano, maybe even cilantro. Can these be cultivated and maintained indoors?
It all depends on the amount of light they'll receive. A south-facing window would be the best. You'll probably have better luck with the thyme and oregano, especially if you are able to do what Scott does and get them outside in some sun on the nicer days. But, I have found over-wintering herbs inside is usually not worth the trouble.

In my experience, flat-leaf parsley can survive our winters outside. In the past, I've knocked snow off of mine to cut some. But it is a true biennial, which means it will not last much more than a season and a half before it flowers and then dies, so you'll want to plant more every spring.

And for a more reliably hardy rosemary, try the "Arp" variety. It is hardy through zones 6-11 (we are zone 7).

While they will die back when it gets really cold in winter, thyme and oregano are hardy (zone 5, I recall) perennials and will regrow in the spring (although I've also seen oregano stay green through the milder winters).

Cilantro is my nemesis. I cannot get it to grow around here without it immediately bolting. :lol: I just buy it at the grocery store. However, you can probably at least get it to sprout inside and enjoy cilantro micro-greens. B)

Someone also asked up-thread about grow-lights/fluorescent lights... I've done the whole fluorescent light route with starting seeds and had pretty good success. The trick is that the lights have to be immediately above the plants (which is not the case with the $$$ HD grow-lights and the more expensive high-output fluorescents) and you'll need to use another light source once the plants are more than 3-4" tall (but, by that point, you can start taking the seedlings outside).

I used plain old shop lights (the cheapest I could find) with a mixture of regular fluorescent and "soft" light fluorescent bulbs (my thinking was to get as complete as a spectrum as possible without buying the pricey "plant" fluorescent bulbs). I hung the lights with chains from hooks so I could easily adjust the height as the plants grew.

To start the seeds I bought a few of this type of seed-starting trays, filled them with sterile seed-starting mix, sowed the seeds at the recommended depth and kept the trays (with the tops on) on top of my radiators and refrigerator to encourage germination. Once the seeds sprouted, I moved the trays to the table in the basement under the lights, adjusted the lights so they were ~1/2" above the sprouts and left them uncovered.

I'd water by filling the bottom tray and adjust the lights up as the plants grew. Another trick is to set a fan (on low) to blow on the seedlings after they sprout. It helps prevent damping-off (a fungal infection) and the air movement will encourage the plants to develop stronger stalks.

When the plants had one or two sets of "real" leaves, I thinned them so there was just one plant per cell. And when the seedlings were 2-3" tall, I transplanted them to larger pots (~3" diameter). Once they settled into those pots, I started shuttling them outside on nice days to get them accustomed to the sun, gradually increasing the time spent outside (initially in the shade), but still bringing them in at night (eggplant and tomato plants will get mad if they get too cold and can simply stop growing).

Yes, it is all a bit of a pain, but it is difficult to find some of the more unusual tomatoes as plants. And I'd usually get my first tomatoes around the beginning of July.

I also started eggplants, parsley, bok choy and fennel indoors, but directly planted the squash, cucumbers and basil once it was warm enough outside (typcially June). Basil grows super fast when it is warm enough, so you don't really lose any time and the squash/cukes don't like to be transplanted.

[While writing my tome, I see that my fellow gardening geek, porcupine, is a much faster typist! :unsure: ]

Edited to add: When I had my fluorescent light set-up, I grew baby lettuces and arugula inside one winter. I started the seeds in large flats and harveted when they were 2-3" tall. It worked great! :)

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Putting the plants a short distance from the grow lights might solve my biggest problem, namely, my big fat cat loves to put her big fat butt on the nice soft peat pots full of soil and bask under the nice warm lights. Which, of course, squishes everything :lol:

But this would be a project for later in the year. Have to calculate based on expected last frost date. Hmmm. Is this changing due to global warming?

My zone used to be 6 something and now it's definitely 7 something.

Oh, well, I bought some of those tomato towers last year but by the time they arrived, it was already too warm to need them. But others in the community plot got excellent results.

Last year was my first year with the community plot. We built four raised beds, but have room for at least 10 (4 ft. x 8 ft.) Ya'll have inspired me to go for an asparagus bed and a strawberry bed. Except I still keep hoping they'll call me with a better plot, one with sun all day long.

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Except I still keep hoping they'll call me with a better plot, one with sun all day long.
It is lack of sunlight that thwarts most vegetable gardening at my current abode. :unsure: I'll keep my fingers crossed for you to get a better plot! B)

If I recall correctly, when we lived in southern MD, I'd start my tomato and eggplant seeds around mid-March and plant them in the ground late May/early June. Here is a chart to help figure out when (if you can determine the last frost date! :lol: ) by plant type.

Also, I was just out on my back porch and the sage, rosemary, chives and oregano and all still going strong (well, the oregano is sulking a bit, but I suspect that is more from lack of water/sun than anything else).

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I used plain old shop lights (the cheapest I could find) with a mixture of regular fluorescent and "soft" light fluorescent bulbs (my thinking was to get as complete as a spectrum as possible without buying the pricey "plant" fluorescent bulbs). I hung the lights with chains from hooks so I could easily adjust the height as the plants grew.

If anyone is interested in having this kind of setup, I have old ballasts and bulbs that I am willing to give away. Really. I'd like to get rid of them - please contact me.

My current setup - I really am a gardening geek, you'll see - is a single 1000 watt (not a typo) full spectrum bulb in a metal halide ballast, with heat mats and yes a small fan to prevent damping off, and an indoor hose bib with a fine mist sprayer. And two 4'x8' (not a typo) tables I built for this purpose (3 coats marine grade [polyurethane?] waterproofing on top).

This setup works really, really, really well, but I would not recommend it unless you like throwing money after hardware just for the fun of it.

I truly am a geek.

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When I was growing African violets (they are edible, aren't they?), I had them in a West facing window. I used a gro-light

to provide longer light (a timer clicked on the light an hour before dawn). It worked. Much has been written about how much light, length of light, etc. Get into this and you are real gardening geek. The lights really help.

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OK, Porcupine, what are you growing under that light? Not just veggies, I guess-what is your other obsession?

Herbs just take a little time, once you get them started, they're easy -thyme, oregano, rosemary can be perennials. Cilantro is a challenge, this past summer I planted Vietnamese cilantro, it doesn't bolt as quick as regular cilantro & it flourished-as a matter of fact, it grew to an enormous size & engulfed a nearby rose- between that & a Mexican bush sage, my tiny bed was overwhelmed.

The only things that look like they have survived the winter in the beds that are going to be planted with vegetables are a few agastaches, hollyhocks, purple fennel, & the scraggly rosebushes. I'm going to edge them w/ boards, dump on a bunch of composted leaves, plant seed, & hope for the best...

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OK, Porcupine, what are you growing under that light? Not just veggies, I guess-what is your other obsession?

Oh, you know, annual and perennial ornamentals, herbs culinary herbs, that sort of thing. :unsure: One season I grew several hundred coleus (from cuttings) under that lamp. Have to admit, though, when I first got the setup going, I jumped every time I heard a helicopter. :lol:

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Re: rosemary. You must really, really love rosemary. The bushes get quite large and woody, especially if you grow them in a bed near the house, which will radiate warmth all winter, especially on the south side which is the warmest side during the winter.

My favorite place for pre-started plants, and the main reason I don't do lights, is DeBaggio's. They do a wonderful job with herbs, tomatoes and other vegetables, geraniums and other flowers, and shrubs. Won't reopen until March.

http://www.debaggioherbs.com/

Last year the tomatoes I planted from other dealers must have come pre-infected with viruses. I decided to try tearing the worst infected ones out and replacing all with virus resistant tomato plants from DeBaggio or else their heirlooms. Excellent idea. DeBaggio tomatoes, even though they started out smaller, quickly caught up and then passed the others.

Don't be alarmed by the gentle presence of a peculiar but benevolent man who hangs out there. That's Tom DeBaggio, the founder, who came down with early onset Alzheimer's, lost his memory but retains his good nature. He's very sweet. The backbone of the outfit is Francesco, Tom's son, typically seen with long hair down his back and a straw hat. He knows pretty much everything there is to know about selection of cultivars and how to cultivate them for the best results.

But I am hankering to try grow lights for cabbage and broccoli -- these are not terribly susceptible to viruses.

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