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Dress Codes


bilrus

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Question -- Open Table has a "Dress" recommendation for each of the restaurants listed there. Who supplies that? The restaurant? Or does Open Table make that determination? Do people here take that as the dress code they should adhere to? Or do folks tend to look at how others are dressed when they go? I was a little surprised to see Central listed as "casual dress", but I suppose I see both "dressed to dine" and "damn, blew out my flip flop" on the occasions I've gone. Heck, I'm not sure I even know exactly what casual dress means.... :D

ETA Maggie O'Houlihan.

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What we all need to do here, before this discussion continues any further, is first, to decide with whom we identify:

Judge Smails-click

Al Czervix-click

Ty Webb-click

Danny Noonan

Carl Spackler-click, click

Spaulding-click

Lacy Underalls

Maggie O'Houlihan

Mitch Kumstein

Once you have determined your sympathies, announce them at the start of your comments, and then espouse the view which corresponds to the relevant character.

Like in all things, life is merely a macrocosm for Bushwood Country Club, and the truth lies herein.

Could you convert this to Repo Man? If so, I will be putting my sympathies with Otto. Thanks.

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What we all need to do here, before this discussion continues any further, is first, to decide with whom we identify:

Judge Smails-click

Al Czervix-click

Ty Webb-click

Danny Noonan

Carl Spackler-click, click

Spaulding-click

Lacy Underalls-click

Maggie O'Houlihan

Mitch Kumstein

Dr. Beeper

Once you have determined your sympathies, announce them at the start of your comments, and then espouse the view which corresponds to the relevant character.

Like in all things, life is merely a macrocosm for Bushwood Country Club, and the truth lies herein.

No love for the gopher?

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It's ridiculous that you even care about what people at other tables are wearing (assuming they are not bothering you or naked or something like that). Is it possible that the reason you don't like it when people at the table next to you wear shorts is that you feel that you're better than them and they don't deserve to share the establishment with you? It does make you sound like a snob that you aren't focusing on your table and your meal, but somebody else's--indeed, it makes you a snob. My point in discussing the restaurant's right to enforce a dress code is that it's up to the owner who he wants to serve, and it's only up to you whether you want to dine. You don't have a right to demand that a place be exclusionary just because you think the food is high class.

Yes, indeed, anyone who expects other diners to dress fitting to the occassion of a big night out is a snob. As is anyone who expects their neighbors to mow their lawn, the person next to them on the subway to bathe regularly or the clerk behind the counter (assuming a native speaker) to be relatively articulate and polite. Suggesting that Giorgio Armani my be a little more sleekly elegant and tastefully appropriate for some occasions is snobbish, as is suggesting that -- objectively speaking -- Matisse is more talented than Thomas Kinkade, Bach more talented than Joe Strummer or RJ Cooper more talented than Spike. Anyone suggesting that there are objective aesthetic, moral or behavioral standards is a snob. In fact, anyone who goes out for a nice meal is probably a snob because, you know, it's just food. And anyone who expects others to act like a snob merely because our public behavior affects those who join us in the public square is a prig. That's why I always wear my "get over it, tightass" t-shirt to the Palm, to let the prigs know where they stand with me.

Further, as I've learned from two decades of close-quarters, pseudo-legalistic argument with children, if it's not written down, it's not a rule. That's why I'm comfortable farting on elevators or touring holy places dressed like a leather boy after a 36-hour rave. If you weren't supposed to show up to Cafe du Parc dressed like a refugee from an Orange County camp for hipster wannabees, they would have written it down and taped it on the front door next to the "no shirt, no shoes, no service" sign which, since they don't have one, means you can probably eat there with no shirt or shoes. If there's anything we've learned in almost three millenia of written human history, it's that, for God's sake, people cannot be expected to use their judgment, particularly if it might interfere with their own self-interest, however trivial. That's why there aren't enough lawyers in the world and also why PX felt compelled to put up that list of rules that you'd have thought everybody old enough to drink legally knew to follow without being reminded -- especially because Todd often resembles a hitter for the Gambino family, if the Gambinos were Irish -- but didn't.

People who follow rules that aren't written down are wimps. People who follow rules that aren't written down in part because their actions might make life incrementally more pleasant for another human, are pussies. People who expect them to behave that way without being slapped, or handed a rulebook, are snobs.

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Yes, indeed, anyone who expects other diners to dress fitting to the occassion of a big night out is indeed a snob. As is anyone who expects their neighbors to mow their lawn, the person next to them on the subway to bathe regularly or the clerk behind the counter (assuming a native speaker) to be relatively articulate and, indeed, polite. Suggesting that Giorgio Armani my be a little more sleekly elegant and tastefully appropriate for some occasions is snobbish, as is suggesting that -- objectively speaking -- Matisse is more talented than Thomas Kinkade, Bach more talented than Joe Strummer or RJ Cooper more talented than Spike. Anyone suggesting that there are objective aesthetic, moral or behavioral standards is a snob. In fact, anyone who goes out for a nice meal is probably a snob because, you know, it's just food. And anyone who expects others to act like a snob merely because our public behavior affects those who join us in the public square is a prig. That's why I always wear my "get over it, tightass" t-shirt to the Palm, to let the prigs know where they stand with me.

Further, as I've learned from two decades of close-quarters, pseudo-legalistic argument with children, if it's not written down, it's not a rule. That's why I'm comfortable farting on elevators or touring holy places dressed like a leather boy after a 36 hour rave. If you weren't supposed to show up to Cafe du Parc dressed like a refugee from a Manasses trailor camp, they would have written it down and taped it on the front door next to the "no shirt, no shoes, no service" sign which, since they don't have one, means you can probably eat there with no shirt or shoes. If there's anything we've learned in almost three centuries of written human history, it's that, for God's sake, people cannot be expected to use their judgement, particularly if it might infere with their own self-interest, however trivial. That's why there aren't enough lawyers in the world and also why PX felt comepelled to put up that list of rules that you'd have thought everybody old enough to drink legally knew to follow without being reminded -- especially because Todd often resembles a hitter for the Gambino family, if the Gambinos were Irish -- but didn't.

People who follow rules that aren't written down are wimps. People who follow rules that aren't written down in part because their actions might make life incrementally more pleasant for another human, are pussies. People who expect them to behave that way without being slapped, or handed a rulebook, are snobs.

Atrocious spelling. For such a verbose, snobby, and vaguely bigoted, (to good for the trailer, notice the spelling, trash in Manassass?) lawyer, or whatever you are. Oh well. Truly offensive rant.

The question is moot. I win the car. Thanks for playing..

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People who follow rules that aren't written down are wimps. People who follow rules that aren't written down in part because their actions might make life incrementally more pleasant for another human, are pussies. People who expect them to behave that way without being slapped, or handed a rulebook, are snobs.

I didn't call anyone a wimp or a pussy. I just implied that people should keep to themselves and mind their business. If your perspective is of a restauranteur, expecting your patrons to show you the respect that you show them, fine. If your perspective is as a diner, the table next to you owes you nothing.

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Atrocious spelling. For such a verbose, snobby, and vaguely bigoted, (to good for the trailer, notice the spelling, trash in Manassass?) lawyer, or whatever you are. Oh well. Truly offensive rant.

The question is moot. I win the car. Thanks for playing..

Point taken on the Mannasses folks: I edited them out. And you should have seen the spelling before I edited twice, my typing sucks. On the other, I stand by every other word, assuming they're spelled right. Or would that be "spelt?"

Have a nice drive. I'm thinking that a little engine work just before dinner would have you looking good when you sat down. Wear your best wifebeater, for that special touch.

I didn't call anyone a wimp or a pussy. I just implied that people should keep to themselves and mind their business. If your perspective is of a restauranteur, expecting your patrons to show you the respect that you show them, fine. If your perspective is as a diner, the table next to you owes you nothing.

I just picked on you because you did the thing of calling people who notice their surroundings and sometimes expect them to reflect the occasion a "snob" which is simultaneously very tired, pretty juvenile and a logically (rhetorically? it's been a few years) fallacious. But you, and other posters, surely put your manhood on the line (and simltaneously questioned the manhood of others) with the "I'm not lettin' The Man tell me how to dress," line of argument.

Finally, and this should be apparent even to you, if you and I are in the same room, our business overlaps quite a bit. You're a lucky man if you've never had a dinner ruined by the table next to you (though I can't claim to have had one ruined by their clothing).

Pizzaman -- check my spelling, will ya? I hope I caught the one before Don did but, if not, it will be posted soon.

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I am going to register my vehement opposition to the notion that wearing a suit is considered "sad". If anything is sad, it's the business casual uniform of a blue oxford button-down shirt w/ khakis, and it is a pox upon the American workplace and culture on the whole. I long for the return and widespread acceptance of men's business attire like that of the 1940s to 1960s-era (think 'Mad Men'), where being well-dressed was respected rather than being spat upon.
Or Cary Grant in The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit."
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People who follow rules that aren't written down are wimps. People who follow rules that aren't written down in part because their actions might make life incrementally more pleasant for another human, are pussies. People who expect them to behave that way without being slapped, or handed a rulebook, are snobs.
I would love to see this on a tee-shirt, or
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This whole thread calls to mind the apocryphal story of Jackie Kennedy who, while hosting a dinner at the White House, noticed that a guest was drinking from her fingerbowl. Rather than let the guest be ridiculed for her ignorance, Mrs. Kennedy then drank from hers.

Some use this story as the definition of true manners and class. Others would insist on their right to judge and find fault.

It may be wrong to dress inappropriately in a restaurant, but it is a far greater trespass to judge.

What I'd like to see is a real discussion on the violations of behavioral codes in restaurants that pass without comment, judgement, or outrage.

I have witnessed many well dressed figures browbeat, insult, denigrate and demean simple hostesses, servers and busboys--often with a real, vicious rage--just because they feel they can. (Rarely have I seen this from someone wearing jeans and a T-shirt, by the way).

That is where the real cause for alarm lies, for those who fear the collapse of civilization.

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It may be wrong to dress inappropriately in a restaurant, but it is a far greater trespass to judge.

What I'd like to see is a real discussion on the violations of behavioral codes in restaurants that pass without comment, judgement, or outrage.

I have witnessed many well dressed figures browbeat, insult, denigrate and demean simple hostesses, servers and busboys--often with a real, vicious rage--just because they feel they can. (Rarely have I seen this from someone wearing jeans and a T-shirt, by the way).

That is where the real cause for alarm lies, for those who fear the collapse of civilization.

It isn't wrong but it is disregarding the policy of the restaurant (I assume there is a written dress code in this case). Thinking you are above the law or rules makes you the snob, not those who obey the rules "exclusionary" as asserted by another poster. As for people browbeating wait staff, it has nothing to do with how they dress - if there is a correlation, it's a tenuous one at best. Disobeying the law and the rules will directly lead to the collapse of civilization - see Iraq. Wearing suitable attire has no such direct causal effect as far as I can tell.

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I just picked on you because you did the thing of calling people who notice their surroundings and sometimes expect them to reflect the occasion a "snob" which is simultaneously very tired, pretty juvenile and a logically (rhetorically? it's been a few years) fallacious. But you, and other posters, surely put your manhood on the line with the "I'm not lettin' The Man tell me how to dress," line of argument.

Finally, and this should be apparent even to you, if you and I are in the same room, our business overlaps quite a bit. You're a lucky man if you've never had a dinner ruined by the table next to you (though I can't claim to have had one ruined by their clothing).

What I did was suggest that people who get up in arms about what other people are wearing at restaurants are snobs. I refuse to believe that the posts complaining about t-shirts, shorts, zubaz, tourists, Manassas and trailer parks were really motivated by anything other than a feeling that the common folk don't deserve to share a table or a room with the poster. I fail to see where anything I've said is logically fallacious (and I can assure you that nothing I said was intended to be fellacious) or any of the other sharp adjectives you used.

Also, I didn't say anything about The Man or how people should dress, so please address concerns with that idea to those who actually expressed it. When I go out to eat, I obey dress codes, say please and thank you to wait staff, and tip generously, because I think it is the right thing to do. I just don't get my panties in a bunch because someone next to me doesn't share the same behavior, because at the end of the day, fuck, there is so much more in the world to be worried about than shorts and fanny packs. Get over yourself, your elite dining experience is just not that vital to the rest of the world.

Really? So there's no problem with the table next to you farting and belching eh? I'm with Waitman on this one.

OK, OK, fine, I would have a problem with fellow diners vomiting on my table, stealing my girlfriend, exposing themselves to passers-by, throwing things or yelling at me. But if a fart from across the room never reaches my table, should I really give a shit? Obviously the behaviors you describe cannot be ignored, but a t-shirt can be.

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If there's anything we've learned in almost three centuries of written human history, it's that, for God's sake, people cannot be expected to use their judgement, particularly if it might infere with their own self-interest, however trivial.

The wisest thing I've read in this thread so far, and one I'm tempted to change my e-mail sig to quote.

:D

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What I did was suggest that people who get up in arms about what other people are wearing at restaurants are snobs. I refuse to believe that the posts complaining about t-shirts, shorts, zubaz, tourists, Manassas and trailer parks were really motivated by anything other than a feeling that the common folk don't deserve to share a table or a room with the poster. I fail to see where anything I've said is logically fallacious (and I can assure you that nothing I said was intended to be fellacious) or any of the other sharp adjectives you used.

Also, I didn't say anything about The Man or how people should dress, so please address concerns with that idea to those who actually expressed it. When I go out to eat, I obey dress codes, say please and thank you to wait staff, and tip generously, because I think it is the right thing to do. I just don't get my panties in a bunch because someone next to me doesn't share the same behavior, because at the end of the day, fuck, there is so much more in the world to be worried about than shorts and fanny packs. Get over yourself, your elite dining experience is just not that vital to the rest of the world.

OK, OK, fine, I would have a problem with fellow diners vomiting on my table, stealing my girlfriend, exposing themselves to passers-by, throwing things or yelling at me. But if a fart from across the room never reaches my table, should I really give a shit? Obviously the behaviors you describe cannot be ignored, but a t-shirt can be.

I said that promiscuously flinging about the word "snob" rather than constructing an argument was tired, juvenile and fallacious because it has been made for (probably) centuries by people who just don't feel like putting on a necktie or resorting to reason, because it is the kind of "you're just a poop-head" argument a child would make, and because it is a documented logical (not rhetorical, looked it up) fallacy, up there with "poisoning the well" and "post hoc ergo propter hoc."

As I suggested many posts ago, the quality of the wall art, heft of flatware, origin of the plates and garb of the host are all secondary to the quality of the food. But, when attention is paid to them, they combine to enhance the enjoyment of the meal. The same is true of the manners of the guests, including their raiment, which needn't be expensive to be appropriate.

And, that, and a nod to Mr. Landrumm's wise words above, I think I'll catch some sleep.

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Am I alone in finding this thread just a little bit funny?

Granted, I often come to restaurants directly from work, when I'm in a suit. And, when I go to a "fine dining" restaurant on the weekend, when I'm not at work, I think that I typically wear a suit, sportcoat, etc.

But, REALLY?

I have been blessed to eat at a number of the best restaurants in this city. I remember those meals well. But I have absolutely no idea what anybody else in the restaurant was wearing. If I knew it at the time, which I doubt, it didn't affect my meal. And it obviously hasn't tainted my memory.

So I have to ask: why is this such a big deal? Isn't a great restaurant great on its own merits, not because of its clientele? Shouldn't great food be considered great food regardless of who is eating it?

REALLY, is anybody THAT worried about the crowd that a particular place draws? These places bug me when I CAN'T get in, not when somebody else does.

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To summarize:

Some on the board feel it is a diner's responsibility to "dress their best" when at fine dining restaurants.

Others feel you should wear what is comfortable.

Still more feel that it is the restaurant who should be the arbitor of what is, or is not, appropriate.

Some on the board feel that other opinions are elitist and snobby. Those holding these opinions are thought of as pompous dickheads.

Those that are in the "dress up" contingent feel the "dress down" group are uneducated asshats.

Michael Landrum is sure this can all be hashed out over two hits of acid and an endless loop of Caddyshack.

BlakeG thinks Hitler is involved.

I am surprised Joe H hasn't weighed in, and can't wait 'til this thread is locked down.

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I am sorry I started this. I am not a snob nor an elitist and don't wear a suit and tie to work(we're not that formal). But I do believe in this just like I give my teenage sons guidance on what to wear when we go out as a family. I.E. a polo shirt is mostly acceptable and a whole lot better then their undershirt with blood and sweat stains from lacrosse or hockey. I give them guidance that I really don't want or need to see their boxers or their girlfriends thong. I would expect have expected most on this list to share these opinions as they do affect the dining experience. But maybe not.

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There's a word for a person who does not follow a specific code of behavior of an establishment and still expects to be "served."

Disrespectful. :D

This applies to the restaurant patron who: brow beats a server - disrespectin' the server, wears flip flops with dirty toe-nails (ever) - disrepectin' his dining companions and self or lacks a coat and tie in an establishment with a specific code - disrespectin' the maker of the rules (presumably the owner). I could go on and not just about restaurants but there's really no need to go OT to make my point.

Except this :blink: , allow me a bit of a reminiscence... When I was a young girl in Catholic school the dress code included white knee socks. I had a basketball game one day and wore my white tube socks with green strips. The principal (Sr. Jean Elizabeth - she was really quite lovely) had me remove the socks and she cut off the stripes. My parents approved. In retrospect so do I.

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This whole thread calls to mind the apocryphal story of Jackie Kennedy who, while hosting a dinner at the White House, noticed that a guest was drinking from her fingerbowl. Rather than let the guest be ridiculed for her ignorance, Mrs. Kennedy then drank from hers.

Some use this story as the definition of true manners and class. Others would insist on their right to judge and find fault.

And here I thought that story originated with Greystoke: The Legend of Tarzan, Lord of the Apes

It may be wrong to dress inappropriately in a restaurant, but it is a far greater trespass to judge.

What I'd like to see is a real discussion on the violations of behavioral codes in restaurants that pass without comment, judgement, or outrage.

I have witnessed many well dressed figures browbeat, insult, denigrate and demean simple hostesses, servers and busboys--often with a real, vicious rage--just because they feel they can. (Rarely have I seen this from someone wearing jeans and a T-shirt, by the way).

That is where the real cause for alarm lies, for those who fear the collapse of civilization.

Yes, behavior is more important than dress, but I appreciate dress appropriate to the location. Does it necessarily mean that I am judging the person whose dress I find inappropriate? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. So much for my nomination to be the Best Person in the World.

However, the true cause of the collapse of civilization is Crocs. :D

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This whole thread calls to mind the apocryphal story of Jackie Kennedy who, while hosting a dinner at the White House, noticed that a guest was drinking from her fingerbowl. Rather than let the guest be ridiculed for her ignorance, Mrs. Kennedy then drank from hers.
And here I thought that story originated with Greystoke: The Legend of Tarzan, Lord of the Apes

I had heard it about Calvin Coolidge (of all people).

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Yes, indeed, anyone who expects other diners to dress fitting to the occassion of a big night out is indeed a snob. As is anyone who expects their neighbors to mow their lawn, the person next to them on the subway to bathe regularly or the clerk behind the counter (assuming a native speaker) to be relatively articulate and, indeed, polite. Suggesting that Giorgio Armani my be a little more sleekly elegant and tastefully appropriate for some occasions is snobbish, as is suggesting that -- objectively speaking -- Matisse is more talented than Thomas Kinkade, Bach more talented than Joe Strummer or RJ Cooper more talented than Spike. Anyone suggesting that there are objective aesthetic, moral or behavioral standards is a snob. In fact, anyone who goes out for a nice meal is probably a snob because, you know, it's just food. And anyone who expects others to act like a snob merely because our public behavior affects those who join us in the public square is a prig. That's why I always wear my "get over it, tightass" t-shirt to the Palm, to let the prigs know where they stand with me.

Further, as I've learned from two decades of close-quarters, pseudo-legalistic argument with children, if it's not written down, it's not a rule. That's why I'm comfortable farting on elevators or touring holy places dressed like a leather boy after a 36-hour rave. If you weren't supposed to show up to Cafe du Parc dressed like a refugee from an Orange County camp for hipster wannabees, they would have written it down and taped it on the front door next to the "no shirt, no shoes, no service" sign which, since they don't have one, means you can probably eat there with no shirt or shoes. If there's anything we've learned in almost three centuries of written human history, it's that, for God's sake, people cannot be expected to use their judgement, particularly if it might infere with their own self-interest, however trivial. That's why there aren't enough lawyers in the world and also why PX felt comepelled to put up that list of rules that you'd have thought everybody old enough to drink legally knew to follow without being reminded -- especially because Todd often resembles a hitter for the Gambino family, if the Gambinos were Irish -- but didn't.

People who follow rules that aren't written down are wimps. People who follow rules that aren't written down in part because their actions might make life incrementally more pleasant for another human, are pussies. People who expect them to behave that way without being slapped, or handed a rulebook, are snobs.

Hilarious. Just like much of the rest of this thread.

I am far more annoyed by other diners who bathe in perfume or cologne before going out to dine, those that treat the staff like crud, diners that are freaking oblivious to how much noise they are generating and affecting the rest of the diners around them by doing so, poor service and/or poor food, dealing with diners (or staff) that, um, smell (lack of deodorant or haven't bathed recently, etc) and the like far more than having a table of diners show up in shorts and t-shirts.

That said, I find it sometimes odd, sometimes curious (or funny), sometimes weird, sometimes inappropriate and often irrelevant what other diners are wearing when I am also dining.

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I had heard it about Calvin Coolidge (of all people).

As a child I was told that it was Mahatma Gandhi who sipped water from his finger bowl during dinner at the Buckingham Palace and the King of England did the same. Now I doubt that the story is true because Gandhi lived in England as a young man and for a while tried to be an Englishman.

Nevertheless, me thinks the "tee-shirtisation" of restaurants and fancy bars started with the "Casual Fridays." Many people go out for a drink and/or dinner after work on Fridays. Restaurants and bars did not want to loose business and insist on ties and jackets....zora

PS: I enjoyed your long post.

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I had heard it about Calvin Coolidge (of all people).

Actually, the story most attributed to Coolidge is that behind the Coolidge Principle, whereby a farmer is giving a tour of his award winning (then) modern husbandry facilities and proudly proclaims to Mrs. Coolidge that his prized stud bull "gets the job done" up to twenty times a day. She says to the farmer, "Perhaps you could mention that to President Coolidge (who was following slightly behind)?" When the farmer does so, the President asks, "Now tell me, is it the same cow twenty times a day, or twenty new ones each time?" "Why, twenty new ones," the farmer replies.

"Then tell that to Mrs. Coolidge."

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This whole thread calls to mind the apocryphal story of Jackie Kennedy who, while hosting a dinner at the White House, noticed that a guest was drinking from her fingerbowl. Rather than let the guest be ridiculed for her ignorance, Mrs. Kennedy then drank from hers.

Some use this story as the definition of true manners and class. Others would insist on their right to judge and find fault.

It may be wrong to dress inappropriately in a restaurant, but it is a far greater trespass to judge.

What I'd like to see is a real discussion on the violations of behavioral codes in restaurants that pass without comment, judgement, or outrage.

I have witnessed many well dressed figures browbeat, insult, denigrate and demean simple hostesses, servers and busboys--often with a real, vicious rage--just because they feel they can. (Rarely have I seen this from someone wearing jeans and a T-shirt, by the way).

That is where the real cause for alarm lies, for those who fear the collapse of civilization.

QFT.

Treat others with respect and consideration, regardless of how they're dressed.

You want to play dress up? Fine. I don't. Also fine.

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QFT.

Treat others with respect and consideration, regardless of how they're dressed.

You want to play dress up? Fine. I don't. Also fine.

When the restaurant has a dress code and you don't follow it, as Mrs. B points out above, that is disrespecting others. So you talk out of both sides of your mouth?

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QFT.

Treat others with respect and consideration, regardless of how they're dressed.

You want to play dress up? Fine. I don't. Also fine.

Not that easy, Spill (welcome aboard). If a restaurant has an established and publicized dress code, do you just willfully disregard it? If so, is that "treat[ing] others with respect and consideration?" In this case, I'm referring to the owners and chef of the restaurant who have requested that you dress in a certain way.

Whether or not one dresses up in the absence of a dress code is distinct from the question of whether one does so when a dress code is in place (and I think those two questions have been conflated throughout this discussion).

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QFT.

Treat others with respect and consideration, regardless of how they're dressed.

You want to play dress up? Fine. I don't. Also fine.

Fine then please go to Rays don't go to The Prime Rib, or go to the 9:30 Club don't go to the NSO, go to The Reef don't go to the Round Robin or try the Hawk and Dove instead of PX. I will not treat you with disrespect despite the disprespect you show to those around you and to the owners of the establishments that you would like to "grace" with your presence. I will keep my disdain (go ahead call me a snob) to myself if not my :D .

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There's a word for a person who does not follow a specific code of behavior of an establishment and still expects to be "served."
The condition is called "social autism". Most outgrow it when they move out of their parents’ house. Eventually they understand the selfishness and self-worth of projecting the appearance of a boor in a society and what fundamental yardwork such as mowing the lawn, putting empty garbage cans away does to property value.
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Fine then please go to Rays don't go to The Prime Rib, or go to the 9:30 Club don't go to the NSO, go to The Reef don't go to the Round Robin or try the Hawk and Dove instead of PX. I will not treat you with disrespect despite the disprespect you show to those around you and to the owners of the establishments that you would like to "grace" with your presence. I will keep my disdain (go ahead call me a snob) to myself if not my :D .

I'll go where I like; that's not your call. Don't like me not dressing up someplace? *You* don't go there. Or not.

If I don't like the dress code, I won't go there. If the dress code is not strict, I'm sure as hell not worrying about fashion. Fashion is shallow and silly.

The condition is called "social autism". Most outgrow it when they move out of their parents’ house. Eventually they understand the selfishness and self-worth of projecting the appearance of a boor in a society and what fundamental yardwork such as mowing the lawn, putting empty garbage cans away does to property value.

It's ironic that you talk about "projecting" here, when you're judging others.

When the restaurant has a dress code and you don't follow it, as Mrs. B points out above, that is disrespecting others. So you talk out of both sides of your mouth?

Where did I say that I do that?

Also, nice to meet you. :blink:

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I'll go where I like; that's not your call. Don't like me not dressing up someplace? *You* don't go there. Or not.

If I don't like the dress code, I won't go there. If the dress code is not strict, I'm sure as hell not worrying about fashion. Fashion is shallow and silly.

I wasn't telling you, I was asking you, politely. Frankly I don't give a damn about "fashion" I do care about appropriate attire.

I really don't care if you are sitting next to me wearing a jeweled crown or a diaper. Either way if it's not appropriate, it's not appropriate and you are the one looking/acting foolish, not I. Although I will add that if you were wearing a marvelous jeweled crown made of the real stuff the other night when I was at Bonnaroo, I might have been a bit distracted if you know what I mean......

Most of my clothing comes from Goodwill & the Salvation Army for whatever that's worth. :D

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Ooooow, this is fun!

Can we start a running compilation of relevant cultural references, books, etc?

I elect EM Forster, "Mistrust all enterprises that require new clothes," from Room with a View.

Here is something to counteract all the hipsterisms: click, though "Putting on my top hat..." would do nicely, too.

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I wasn't telling you, I was asking you, politely. Frankly I don't give a damn about "fashion" I do care about appropriate attire.

I really don't care if you are sitting next to me wearing a jeweled crown or a diaper. Either way if it's not appropriate, it's not appropriate and you are the one looking/acting foolish, not I. Although I will add that if you were wearing a marvelous jeweled crown made of the real stuff the other night when I was at Bonnaroo, I might have been a bit distracted if you know what I mean......

Most of my clothing comes from Goodwill & the Salvation Army for whatever that's worth. :D

Your disdain is not appealing, and doesn't help your cause.

The one who is actually "foolish" is the one who judges others to be foolish based on their appearance.

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If a restaurant has a dress code, I adhere to it.

If someone near me is out of dress code, it doesn't really bother me or detract from my experience.

If other people are bothered by it, who cares?

If you yourself are not bothered by it, but are (as many of you are) bothered by people who are bothered by it, then you are a bit of a hypocrite.

Bottom line, should people adhere to a dress code? Yes.

If someone doesn't adhere to a dress code, do people have a right to be upset by it? Sure.

If you're not upset by it, then no harm no foul. Let those who are just sit there and stew. You can privately revel in the fact that you're above such petty concerns.

Sincerely,

Summer Glau

Don't forget to pick up Season Two of Termintor: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, available from Amazon for $38.99.

I have to go now. Someone is ARGUING on the INTERNET!!!

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Ooooow, this is fun!

Can we start a running compilation of relevant cultural references, books, etc?

I elect EM Forster, "Mistrust all enterprises that require new clothes," from Room with a View.

Here is something to counteract all the hipsterisms: click, though "Putting on my top hat..." would do nicely, too.

Nice but I prefer this version when I'm feeling less nostalgic, plus it reminds me of Waitman's dance style.

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When the restaurant has a dress code and you don't follow it, as Mrs. B points out above, that is disrespecting others. So you talk out of both sides of your mouth?
If the restaurant chooses to seat an underdressed guest, it is THEIR FAULT, not the guests.

I used to be maitre d' of a fancy restaurants. Jackets required, no jeans. A very well dressed gentleman came in, looked better than half the people already seated. Resplendent in a lovely Saville Row jacket, impeccably tailored french cuff shirt, Italian loafers, and.....(gulp) jeans.

Me: "I'm sorry sir, but we don't allow jeans in our dining room."

Him: "But these are Armani jeans" (stated in 1991, when $300 denim was a rarity)

Me: "Sir, it does not matter who made the jeans or how much they cost. We don't allow jeans. I'm sorry."

Him: "That's bullshit"

It was MY decision to honor my patrons who I had told, ahead of time what the dress code was. Had I sat the man in question, and other patrons were upset by it, that would have been on me.

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