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Dogs in Restaurants


Cuddlyone

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Well, if they are my cats, they can sense who is not enthralled with them, and will gravitate to that person.

You know, I hate to say it, but this is why women have cats. Like mother, like daughter.

[Fear not, ktmoomau, all the non-restaurant related stuff will get moved to News and Media, and this thread will be left pure and untainted.]

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Why is this such an issue in this country, while in France and Germany (among other countries) the default is that dogs are allowed inside restaurants, and nobody seems to have a problem with it? I really don't understand why Americans are so uptight about dogs, which are generally far better behaved and less likely to give you a disease than other people are, and much less likely to pull a knife on you or get up in your grille as well.

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Couple of thoughts in response to some of the more recent postings.

Half a dozen years ago, I really wanted to get a pet. My husband agreed and, after debating dog vs. cat we decided a cat would work better for our lifestyle than a dog. (He had a beloved family dog as a child. I had a dog briefly as a child that my parents gave away because she was aggressive.) I have had wonderful relationships with some dogs (including those of our across-the-street neighbors when I was growing up) and have also been knocked down by dogs, threatened by dogs, and bitten by dogs. Maybe I’m masochistic, but I always tend to give dogs the benefit of the doubt and think they’re friendly, absent any seriously aggressive behavior.

Dogs off leash make me nervous, however. ...

I’m generally okay with people having dogs outside at restaurants. I tend not to sit outside because of bugs but I do like it sometimes, and I’ve had few problems with dogs . Most people who take dogs to a patio in DC seem to have them under control. I do find it troubling, though, to be told that I should not go to restaurants that allow dogs if I don’t want to be around dogs.

Appreciate this perspective also. Felt the discussion was getting a bit unnecessarily combative but all the posts this afternoon/evening (especially Pat's) have gotten us back onto constructive ground at least. A good thing. On the last comment above that starts "I do find it troubling..." I think that's in response to the ktmoomau post this morning. FWIW, I thought that short one very reasonable. Noone should be told or not told to do anything but seems reasonable that people who really don't like dogs for any reason are probably happier avoiding places where they're likely to be. Similarly, those with dogs or who like dogs will probably naturally own them or not avoid places where they may be. All said, of course everyone should do/go whatever or wherever they prefer.

...But playing devil's advocate here, what if someone told you not to go to a dog park if you don't want to be around dogs? I have no problem with this....

Is this maybe a tone thing more than the content? Agree with Rocks in terms of having no problem with people who don't want to be around dogs avoiding dog parks. Maybe the issue is being "told" to do anything. Otherwise, it seems straightforward to me. If I don't like chinese food, I wouldn't go to a Chinese restaurant but that's my decision alone. Same thing I think.

[Fear not, ktmoomau, all the non-restaurant related stuff will get moved to News and Media, and this thread will be left pure and untainted.]

Was going to suggest this. "Dining with Dogs" is maybe too broad now? One thread might be "Dog Friendly Restaurants" and another for the politics/philosophy/debates around dog-at-restaurant policies? "Restaurant/Dog Policy Thoughts" Random idea.

Why is this such an issue in this country, while in France and Germany (among other countries) the default is that dogs are allowed inside restaurants, and nobody seems to have a problem with it? I really don't understand why Americans are so uptight about dogs, which are generally far better behaved and less likely to give you a disease than other people are, and much less likely to pull a knife on you or get up in your grille as well.

This is a great point. Lots of thoughts in response but I've written way too many words in this thread already so I'm taking a break to go walk the dog. He seems hungry but maybe we'll just get something to go :mellow:

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But playing devil's advocate here, what if someone told you not to go to a dog park if you don't want to be around dogs? I have no problem with this.

I'm not sure I understand your question. Dog parks are where we go to let our dogs play off-leash. Restaurants are where we go to dine. I don't go to restaurants in order to be around dogs. I wouldn't go to a dog park in order to eat.

What Pat said is spot-on. ("I do find it troubling, though, to be told that I should not go to restaurants that allow dogs if I don’t want to be around dogs.") Consider the restaurant in question: it's not like Palena, Dino, Ardeo, or Ripple offer the kind of dining experience that Medium Rare offers. If Medium Rare is where you want to go, no other Cleveland Park restaurant will do as a substitute. I think it was opened as a steak frites place, not a dog place.

[perspective: I'm a dog owner, animal lover, and animal welfare (not rights) advocate who worked five years in an animal shelter, typing this while the little bastard snoozes in my lap]

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If I happen to be somewhere with my dogs and they aren't allowed in, I just tie them to the nearest post. I'm a little concerned that one might steal Blueboy but so far that hasn't happened. The worst that's happened is that I find people petting the dogs. Thus whether or not a restaurant allows dogs is generally irrelevant to me.

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I'm not sure I understand your question. Dog parks are where we go to let our dogs play off-leash. Restaurants are where we go to dine. I don't go to restaurants in order to be around dogs. I wouldn't go to a dog park in order to eat.

What Pat said is spot-on. ("I do find it troubling, though, to be told that I should not go to restaurants that allow dogs if I don’t want to be around dogs.") Consider the restaurant in question: it's not like Palena, Dino, Ardeo, or Ripple offer the kind of dining experience that Medium Rare offers. If Medium Rare is where you want to go, no other Cleveland Park restaurant will do as a substitute. I think it was opened as a steak frites place, not a dog place.

[perspective: I'm a dog owner, animal lover, and animal welfare (not rights) advocate who worked five years in an animal shelter, typing this while the little bastard snoozes in my lap]

I interpreted this as simply acknowledging that most of us will avoid or frequent places that have whatever attributes we don't like or favor. The law prohibits dogs in some places (e.g., the metro, inside a grocery store or restaurant) but, beyond that, it's generally left to proprietor discretion to define a dog policy. Restaurants are where we go to dine but some of them allow dogs and some don't. Since that decision is the owner's, we customers are left to decide whether we like or don't like their decision and act accordingly. I like ericandblueboy's approach to this with using the nearest post beyond restaurant control. But, at a place like Medium Rare, tying the dog up at a post some distance from the restaurant's outdoor seating would likely mean either the dog would be out of sight or right near busy Connecticut Avenue and many pedestrians and traffic. That's probably okay for a minority of folks but maybe won't be for most others. Like everything else, will depend on the dog, the dog owners, the place, etc.

And, btw, if one prefers not to be around dogs and wants steak and frites in the CP area, maybe Bistro le Zinc will be an option. They have steak and frites on their menu but not sure about their dog policy since the outdoor seating is pretty new.

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I like ericandblueboy's approach to this with using the nearest post beyond restaurant control. But, at a place like Medium Rare, tying the dog up at a post some distance from the restaurant's outdoor seating would likely mean either the dog would be out of sight or right near busy Connecticut Avenue and many pedestrians and traffic. That's probably okay for a minority of folks but maybe won't be for most others.

There's a tree right in front of the restaurant. Trafffic? Just make sure your dog is on a short leash. And your dog won't wither and die if you can't see it. That would work for anyone who wants to eat there and is looking for a solution instead of bellyaching.

How 'bout another dog topic? What do you think about people who drive with a dog in their lap? :mellow:

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[Fear not, ktmoomau, all the non-restaurant related stuff will get moved to News and Media, and this thread will be left pure and untainted.]

Thank you Don, I really am not interested in debating the merits of dog policy and appreciate that thread as a source of knowledge as to where I can go with Max to get a bite to eat. I argue too much in any given day to really want to do it online, as well.

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There's a tree right in front of the restaurant. Trafffic? Just make sure your dog is on a short leash. And your dog won't wither and die if you can't see it. That would work for anyone who wants to eat there and is looking for a solution instead of bellyaching.

How 'bout another dog topic? What do you think about people who drive with a dog in their lap? :mellow:

Yup. Down with bellyachers!! And up with living in a country where everyone gets to make their own decisions with whatever criteria they like (whether or not it involves a dog).

Another topic sounds like a super idea. This one has long ago been beaten very dead. Let peace and tranquility reign. :unsure:

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What Pat said is spot-on. ("I do find it troubling, though, to be told that I should not go to restaurants that allow dogs if I don’t want to be around dogs.") Consider the restaurant in question: it's not like Palena, Dino, Ardeo, or Ripple offer the kind of dining experience that Medium Rare offers. If Medium Rare is where you want to go, no other Cleveland Park restaurant will do as a substitute. I think it was opened as a steak frites place, not a dog place.

I don't think that Pat -- or anyone -- has an innate right to enjoy the unique experience that is Medium Rare as a dog-free zone, or that the dog-lovers are endowed by their creators with an inalienable right to tie their dogs up next to their tables at Dino (though, in this limited scenario, everyone gets their way). Some people get irked when a restaurant doesn't allow corkage. Others become miffed by cash-only policies or a chef that doesn't allow substitutions (that would be me, even if I never actually ask for any substitions) or a restaurant requires a decent jacket. A restaurant owner makes a billion large and small decisions that please or annoy potential customers and, frankly, I think his or her right to run an establishment as they see fit and create an atmosphere that comports with their vision outweighs a potential customer's right to park their dog/pay with Amex/get the rice instead of the potatoes. For us, it's dinner. For them, it's their life.

Permitting dogs -- or not -- isn't a moral decision. It's just one more variable in the complex algebra of the restaurant business.

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I don't think that Pat -- or anyone -- has an innate right to enjoy the unique experience that is Medium Rare as a dog-free zone, or that the dog-lovers are endowed by their creators with an inalienable right to tie their dogs up next to their tables at Dino (though, in this limited scenario, everyone gets their way). Some people get irked when a restaurant doesn't allow corkage. Others become miffed by cash-only policies or a chef that doesn't allow substitutions (that would be me, even if I never actually ask for any substitions) or a restaurant requires a decent jacket. A restaurant owner makes a billion large and small decisions that please or annoy potential customers and, frankly, I think his or her right to run an establishment as they see fit and create an atmosphere that comports with their vision outweighs a potential customer's right to park their dog/pay with Amex/get the rice instead of the potatoes. For us, it's dinner. For them, it's their life.

Permitting dogs -- or not -- isn't a moral decision. It's just one more variable in the complex algebra of the restaurant business.

You know, I mostly don't care who or what is sitting outside. Generally, cigarette/cigar smoke bothers me more than dogs. If the configuration of the restaurant is such that people don't have to walk along/through the patio to go into the restaurant, it's probably not a problem for anyone who doesn't insist on sitting outside. I still feel bad for people who have great anxiety about being near dogs, though.

When I wrote my last comment about being troubled, I was thinking of the lengthy list of places in that thread allowing dogs. And I thought, well, my, those restaurant owners probably wouldn't like anyone telling their potential customers not to come there. Maybe there are restaurateurs who would rather have dog owners than anyone else and don't care about whom they alienate. That's totally a business decision.

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I still feel bad for people who have great anxiety about being near dogs, though...

Childhood acquaintance of mine (7 or 8 yrs old at the time) had half her scalp torn off when inexplicably attacked by an otherwise, up until then, friendly, family dog at a neighborhood picnic. Perhaps the dog never saw a child with such vibrant, curly red hair or she had inadvertently startled the food focused creature. No one knows, but the consensus was that she did nothing to intentionally provoke it.

If she ever comes to visit and has not come to terms with her unfortunate, unpredictable accident, I’ll look for a restaurant that caters to her decidedly irrational and exceptional anxiety (one which prohibits contemporary misanthropes who consciously bring dogs capable of biting to dining venues) or one where the outdoor tables are firmly secured to the sidewalk so that a dog doesn’t suddenly disturb a table when surging happily towards another dog on the patio, breaking glasses and plates, like at a restaurant patio in Cleveland Park a month ago.

According to dog bite statistics, tethered dogs are 2.8 times more likely to bite than unchained dogs, though adults only make up 40% of the 4.8 million people bitten by dogs each year. Curiously, muzzles have not been mentioned in this thread and would likely be a reasonable compromise.

CDC doesn’t have hyperbolic corkage or substitution statistics readily available.

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