Thai Noodles 101

[Fishinnards]

More than you wanted to know about Thai noodle dishes (ก๋วยเตี๋ยว).

Thai noodle dishes are of Chinese origin and are relatively recent additions to the Thai culinary universe. Traditionally, Thai people prepared and ate food at home. When large groups of Chinese laborers arrived, they brought their own cuisine and street vendors who sold prepared food for the mostly Chinese clientele. This happened throughout Southeast Asia, and “street food” owes much to Chinese migration. The Chinese brought new cooking techniques to Thailand, which were quickly incorporated into Thai cuisine. These include stir-frying and deep frying. In Thai, the word for stir-fry is Pad (or Phat ผัด, pronounced closer to the name Pat but with a long a, rather than the word pad as in “notepad”). Thai dishes with the name Pad (Phat) in them are of Chinese origin, even Pad Thai. One of the Thai words for rice noodle, the kind of rice noodle used in Pad dishes (not all Pad dishes are noodle dishes, most are not) is Kuaitdiow or Guai-tiaw or Gu-tiaw (ก๋วยเตี๋ยว) a word of Chinese origin. There are several types of rice noodles distinguished by size, i.e. Guai-tiaw sen lek is small cut, Guai-tiaw sen yai is wide cut.

Thai people make another type of rice noodle that has a much longer history in Thai cuisine. These are thin round strands of fresh rice noodle usually folded into small nests. Confusingly, the Thai name for this noodle in Kanom Cheen (ขนมจิ้ม). Kanom means snack or sweet, and Cheen (sometimes written jin) means Chinese, so the Thai name for these noodles translates to Chinese snack. These are usually served with curries, especially Nam Ya, a fish curry, and green curry (gaeng kiew wan).

Confused? Ok, back to Guai-tiaw.

The four most popular Guai-tiaw dishes in American Thai restaurants are Guai-tiaw Pad Thai, Guai-tiaw Pad See Ew, Guai-tiaw Lad Na (also transliterated Rad Na, or Lard Na or Rat Na, all are pronounced the same) and Guai-tiaw Pad kee Mao. As you have probably figured, most Thai menus drop the Guai-tiaw as it is difficult to pronounce and transliterate. In the cases of Pad Thai, Pad See Ew and Lard Na, with the Guai-tiaw dropped, noodles are still implied. This is not necessarily the case for Pad Kee Mao, which can be prepared without noodles. Lets go ahead and break down each of these.

Guai-tiaw Pad See Ew, Guai-tiaw (rice noodles, in this case wide rice noodles, Sen Yai) Pad (stir fry) See Ew (soy sauce). That’s right. Noodles stir-fried with soy sauce, definitely a dish of Chinese origin. Ingredients are oil or lard, garlic (but no ginger, Thai cooks do not use ginger in the same way Chinese cooks do), sliced meat, egg, Chinese broccoli or similar green leafy vegetable, and a seasoning combination of any or all of the following; dark soy sauce (a must for this dish, See Ew), regular soy sauce or golden mountain sauce (a kind of Thai version of Soy sauce/maggi sauce), oyster sauce, sugar, sweet dark soy sauce, fish sauce, MSG, and white pepper. You could just use dark sweet soy (aka kecap manis in Indonesian) or a combination of some of the above listed ingredients. Each cook has her own formula, but obviously some form of soy sauce is a must in this dish. Here is a video of a nice young Thai lady teaching you how to make it.

Guai-tiaw Lad Na. I actually have no idea what Lad Na (Rat Na, Lard Na, Lat Na) means. This dish is also super Chinese. It is very similar to Pad See Ew but is distinguished by a “gravy” or sauce, and the noodles are browned in a dry hot wok. Ingredients are almost the same as Pad see ew, but no egg, and the sauce is thickened by a slurry of starch at the end, usually tapioca starch, but corn starch or potato starch could also be used. This is the only Thai-Chinese dish I can think of that uses this thickening technique, a technique used in many (most?) Chinese stir-fries. So, noodles (again Guai-tiaw Sen Yai or fresh wide rice noodles) are browned in scorching hot wok, usually without oil, till they darken at the edges, and are then set aside. This is the “hard” part. You need very fresh noodles and a very well seasoned very hot wok or you get a sticky burnt mess. Then lots of garlic is stir fried with sliced meat. Greens are added, usually Chinese broccoli. This dish uses similar seasonings as in Pad See Ew above, but this time dow jiow (fermented soy beans, aka Chinese miso) could also be added. Some stock or water is added and then thickened with starch. The result is poured over the waiting browned noodles.

Now my favorite, Guai-tiaw Pad kee Mao. Guai-tiaw (again Sen Yai, wide fresh rice noodles) Pad (stir fry) Kee Mao (a drunk person is called a Kee Mao, kinda sort of translates to shit (kee) faced (mao), but Kee Mao is not a state of being, but a type of a person, a drunkard, or lush) thus this is noodle stir-fry for a drunk person. The menu at Po Siam used to say “noodles of the drunks”. I always liked that. As I am a Kee Mao, I enjoy Guai-tiaw Pad kee Mao very much. As this a dish for drunks (which can also be made without noodles and served with rice) anything goes as far as what vegetables and stuff that can go into it. The way I like it is pretty much Pad Grapao (holy basil stir fry) with noodles and cherry tomatoes, but finding it like this in the States is fairly impossible because holy basil does not grow that well all year long (only in the summer) and is highly perishable. In this dish, again garlic is used, but also lots and lots of Prik kee Nu Chilies (Prik=pepper or chili, kee= shit, Nu=mouse, so mouse poop peppers). I like to use about 20 of these hot little bastards, if it’s too hot to eat it’s perfect. Some cooks grind the garlic and chilies to a paste in a mortar and pestle, and may even add some fermented shrimp paste (kapi, shrimp miso). This resulting paste is fried in hot oil and some meat is added (either sliced or coarsely ground, I prefer the latter). Almost any vegetable is fair game it seams, bean sprouts, baby corn, whatever, who cares, they’re drunk, bell pepper, onion, I hate that shit, bell pepper sucks in Thai food, leave that shit out, and no onion either, but sliced shallots are ok. My vegetable of choice is holy basil, a big ass handful. Most Thai restaurants only throw in a few leaves cause their cheap bastards and your drunk and farang and it’s the wrong kind of basil anyway. It’s usually Bai Horopa (Bai= leaf, horopa = “Thai Basil”) which is ok, but really not the same at all. I like cherry tomatoes in this. In general, central Thais (Bangkok area) do not like tomato, especially cooked tomato. However, northern Thais (Lanna) use it quite a bit cooked, also northeastern Thais (Issan) like to roast tomatoes for one of many types of dipping sauces called jeaw. Seasoning is also kinda whatever, a combination of salty condiments as in the dishes above. Sometimes just fish sauce and palm sugar will do the trick, but oyster sauce is very trendy nowadays. I’ve heard of some cooks adding whiskey, but remember, it is the diner who is drunk, not the noodles.

Guai-tiaw Pad Thai, literally stir fried noodles Thai style. The word “Thai” is a qualifier that indicates that this is not a Chinese style Pad (Phat). My understanding is that this dish was invented (by a contest) in the 1920s during a fit of Thai nationalism (i.e anti-Chinese sentiment). The flavor profile of this dish is very different from the above in that there is no soy sauce, oyster sauce, fermented bean paste or any other seasoning of Chinese origin. The very Thai sweet and sour seasoning is usually Tamarind, palm sugar, and fish sauce. The ingredients, however, are all Chinese, rice noodles (sen lek this time, thinner cut), dried radish, pressed tofu, chives etc. Leela of Shesimmers.com has way more info about this dish and I encourage you to read all five posts of her Pad Thai series.

Condiments. In Thailand, noodle dishes are always served with condiments. The condiments come in what is call a Khrueng Puang (เครื่องพวง) or ring of spices. Usually this is four or five containers with little spoons arranged in a metal holder. Ask for it if you don’t see it on the table. Each container had a different condiment, usually white sugar, crushed hot pepper (prik pon, made from dried prik ee nu), fresh green sliced chilies in vinegar (prik chee fah, milder bigger chilies or finger hots), fish sauce or fish sauce with chilies, and crushed roasted peanuts. Each diner is expected to season his or her own noodle dish to their liking. Here is some quick advice. Chilies in vinegar is a must for Pad See Ew and Lard Na, crushed dried chili (prik pon) is a must for Pad Thai (along with a squeeze of lime). Everything else is up to you.

Thai noodle dishes are not part of a regular Thai meal. They are some of the few Thai dishes that are meant to be eaten alone. They are considered one-dish meals. They are usually eaten for breakfast or lunch and are not usually shared. Consider them as we do sandwiches. Now, do you judge an fine Italian restaurant by its subs? Do you order a sandwich as part of your multi-course meal? Generally no, but that is what you are doing when you order your Thai noodle dish along with your curry and soup and other dishes. Thai noodles are specialty foods made by vendors with special equipment who usually specialize in only one or two dishes (like a deli or pizza parlor). Thai restaurants in Thailand (that don’t cater to tourists) don’t usually have Pad Thai or other noodle dishes, because you buy those from street vendor specialists. A regular Thai meal however, is always multiple dishes, never in courses, but all at once and shared “family style”. It is called ahan kap khao, or just kap khao. Ahan means “food”, kap is “with” and khao is “rice”. Variety and contrast is very important to the Thai diner. There must be an array of flavors as well as textures and different dishes balance one another. But noodles have a place outside this type of meal and are dishes unto themselves.

By all means eat Thai food however you like, eat noodles with your other dishes if you want. I hope I have added some context and understanding that will add to your enjoyment of Thai noodle dishes. BTW there are many many more delightful Thai noodle dishes and more being invented everyday. Feel free to ask me questions, argue or disagree. I haven't even mentioned boat noodles.

[DonRocks]

This coming December, if we do a "Best Posts of 2013" thread, remember this one. An amazingly logical, concise, thoughtful presentation, taking a complex subject and making it accessible, even to a beginner. What a superb little piece of explanatory writing.

Here is a video of a nice young Thai lady teaching you how to make it.

The restraint she uses in catching herself at 1:24 is both commendable and hilarious.

[zoramargolis]

When we were in NYC three weeks ago, we had pad Thai for lunch at a small storefront called Pok-Pok, next door to my SIL's building in the LES. All they serve is pad Thai, which you can have plain or with shrimp or pork or both, eat in at a counter or take-out. They have a few beverage options including a choice of fruit vinegars diluted with soda water, plus the ubiquitous Thai iced tea. We stuck with ice water flavored with pandanus, which was free and absolutely delicious.

Unfortunately, they did not have any shrimp the day we were there, so I got the plain and J. got the pork. Any condiments were added by the chef, they were not offered as options. But it was delicious.

---

Pok Pok Phat Thai (weinoo)

[thistle]

I love Thai food, but I am not a noodle person, I prefer rice. My son will occasionally get lad na noodles, & we use all sizes of rice noodles here at the house for the picky pescetarian, who LOVES rice noodles, but usually very simply w/ soy sauce & fish or shrimp.....I had a takeout lunch from Thai Nakorn today- larb gai, & gai ka prow- it was delicious.....

[lovehockey]

Thanks for this this post! Pad See Ew and Lad Na are two of my comfort dishes, and the former was one of the dishes I ordered from Thai Nakorn when I introduced my mom to Thai food (it was mild, mild, mild because she can't have spice, and she loved it).

Here comes my silly question: When I make a noodle dish at home I have a terrible time getting dried noodles "limp" enough when I soak them in water, even if I let them soak for an hour. Should I just forget those and visit the refrigerated case at the Bangkok 54 Market instead, or is there some trick with dried noodles I don't know about?

[thistle]

Don't know if this is right, but we soak our noodles in lukewarm water for about a half hour, & sometimes they're cooked more after that, stir fried...the noodles are the easiest part...

[The Hersch]

Thank you, Fishinnards, for a remarkably informative and interesting post. Between your commentary and your beautiful photographs of your beautiful food, you contribute more here than most of us can hope to.

[Fishinnards]

Here comes my silly question: When I make a noodle dish at home I have a terrible time getting dried noodles "limp" enough when I soak them in water, even if I let them soak for an hour. Should I just forget those and visit the refrigerated case at the Bangkok 54 Market instead, or is there some trick with dried noodles I don't know about?

I don't cook with dried noodles too often, but my understanding is that you should soak them in cold water for at least a half an hour and for up to 3 hours. Warm water could make them too soft for stir frying. I think they will hold for a while in cold water and not get too soft so you can put them in the water ahead of time and forget about them till you need them. If you are stir frying them and they are not soft enough you need to add more liquid (water) and keep frying till they get softer. For soups you just need to blanch them for about 5 seconds in boiling water. Thais make a cool cup shaped strainer with a long handle that is great for blanching noodles (and vegetables and meat).

I do recommend the fresh noodles from Bangkok 54 (or Duangrat, Great Wall probably has them as well). I got some myself yesterday. If they are very fresh, they will be out by the register and not in the fridge. In the video for Pad See Ew I posted above, Pai recommends not refrigerating fresh noodles. She is correct, but the noodles she is using come pre-cut and are not laying flat. When noodles are refrigerated they become brittle over time, and will stick together and can be impossible to separate if they are not flat, but if you leave them out at room temp they will start to break down and ferment. However, the noodles from Bangkok 54 come in one large folded sheet, so even when they get stiff from refrigeration, you can still separate them (after you cut them into strips). The older they are, the more delicate the operation. You have to peal them apart very carefully or the will break into small pieces. These noodles last night were fairly fresh though.

Here they are in the package:

They come in 2lb packages of two sheets.

I only needed about 8oz so I just unfold it once

and cut that half into strips

Next I carefully separated each noodle and layered them in a bowl, crisscrossing them so they would not stick to each other.

I made Pad See Ew with pork. I usually buy about 3lbs of pork shoulder from my local butcher (Steve at Let's Meat on the Avenue in Del Ray) and cut it into 200-250 gram pieces, wrap them in plastic and freeze them. I can get one or two (Asian) dishes out of one piece.

This pork had a good bit of fat on it, so I rendered some to use as my frying medium.

This shot is about halfway through the process. Those cracklings will go into the dish as well.

Here are the seasonings.

Also included are an egg, lots of garlic, and white pepper.

Here is the finished dish, with chillies and vinegar. ก๋วยเตี๋ยวผัดซีอิ๊ว

It was aroy mak (very yummy).

[thistle]

I hate to add this to this thread, but I've just started watching 'Project Runway' again, & one of the designers, Tu Nakchat, is from Springfield, VA, & says he worked in his parents' restaurant- anyone know which restaurant this would be? Totally off topic, I know, but since I've eaten in a lot of local Thai restaurants, I'm curious-& I also think Tu is one of the more talented designers so far (early days, but I have a fondness for PR, also TopChef, what can I say? I like some competitive reality tv).

[Fishinnards]

I am rooting for Tu. The designs he showed in the first episode were great.

[Fishinnards]

Here is a good article on Field Marshal Plaek Pibulsongkram and the origins of Phat Thai.

[Tweaked]

I hate to add this to this thread, but I've just started watching 'Project Runway' again, & one of the designers, Tu Nakchat, is from Springfield, VA, & says he worked in his parents' restaurant- anyone know which restaurant this would be? Totally off topic, I know, but since I've eaten in a lot of local Thai restaurants, I'm curious-& I also think Tu is one of the more talented designers so far (early days, but I have a fondness for PR, also TopChef, what can I say? I like some competitive reality tv).

According to this article, his family runs the Bangkok Golden Restaurants.

[thistle]

OK, Tu killed it in this last episode, I'll go out & celebrate at one of the very good local Thai restaurants next week, thanks so much for the link to the article, I've eaten at Bangkok Golden (w/ a DR crew, it was great), this makes me happy...

& Fishinnards, I also dislike bell peppers in ka prow, but I guess there's not another way to get that flavor? My friend laughs, because I'm not fond of onions & peppers (but I like scallions & hot peppers), but I will always order this, & just leave the peppers & onions, after I eat the chicken...

[Fishinnards]

& Fishinnards, I also dislike bell peppers in ka prow, but I guess there's not another way to get that flavor? My friend laughs, because I'm not fond of onions & peppers (but I like scallions & hot peppers), but I will always order this, & just leave the peppers & onions, after I eat the chicken...

Bell pepper (prik wan) is not use in (traditional) Thai cooking except for a couple of exceptions. IMO that flavor doesn't belong in krapow or any other Thai stir fry except maybe pad priow wan (sweet and sour, which is more Chinese anyway). You certainly won't find it in pad kra pow in Bangkok. Same goes for onions (hom kaek). I think American Thai restaurants like bell pepper for the color. In Thailand, red long chillies (prik chee fah) would be used, sliced on the bias. These add even more heat to the already spicy dish, so bell pepper adds the color without the heat. As for onion, it's cheaper than shallots, which would be more traditional. Red onion often substitutes for shallots in salads (yum) here in the states. I am not a fan of that practice. Even though the large shallots we get here are different from the small red ones in Southeast Asia, I prefer them to red onion. However, you will find red onion being used in Thailand, but it's a trend I don't favor. I like bell pepper, but I don't like it in Thai food. IIRC we never used it when I was cooking at the Thai Buddhist temple. It's not your fault you don't like them as those things really don't belong in (pad bai) krapow. I never order this dish out because of this and because most of all it never has krapow either. The whole dish is a lie .

[thistle]

After an excellent dinner at Thai Nakorn tonight, I'm switching my allegiance-spicy crispy basil shrimp, no distracting onions or peppers (except for some pretty red pepper rings for garnish), lots of crispy basil & amazing shrimp...I would kill to know how they cook this...

[thistle]

Not noodles, but a Thai dish- what do you think about making larb w/ smoked chicken thighs? I know it's usually made w/ minced chicken, lightly cooked, but I've made it w/ smoked turkey before & it was good. I'm a little worried that the smoke flavor will be too strong &/ or that the meat will be tough/dry, even if it's chopped. I think if there's enough herbs & dressing (lime/fish sauce/dried peppers/toasted rice powder), it should be ok-I'm planning the upcoming grad picnic for my son (sort of like a team dinner, smoked meats, lots of salads, anything I can prep in advance).

[Fishinnards]

The short answer is yes, you can do that. I am djing right now, but I will answer later or tomorrow, perhaps with a recipe.

[Fishinnards]

Laap (ลาบ) is one type of "salad" or yum (ยำ) which means tossed or mixed together. You can make yum with anything. Laap is specific to chopped meat, and the meat should be chopped prior to cooking or the resulting texture would not be pleasing (IMHO). In fact, it is common for the meat not to be cooked at all (at least in the past in rural Isaan, the meat would usually be water buffalo). There is another Isaan salad that uses the same flavor profile as laap, but uses grilled sliced meat, called nam tok (waterfall) or seua rong hai (tiger cry). For yum neua yang nam tok (grilled beef waterfall salad) the dressing and herbs (mint, cilantro or culantro, etc) are the same as laap (roasted rice powder, roasted dried crushed chillies, lime juice, fish sauce). This can also be made with grilled pork neck (kaw mu yang). I'm sure it would be good with sliced smoked chicken as well.

Another option for smoked chicken thighs is to treat them as you would leftover grilled chicken and make yum gai yang (grilled chicken salad). There are countless ways to make yum gai yang, but I love this recipe from Sisamon Kongpan from The Elegant Taste of Thailand. The recipe is somewhat vague in that she calls for one grilled chicken without specifying size or weight, but I usually use half of a (3lb) grilled chicken. The dressing is strong and spicy so use more meat (or less dressing) if don't like it too hot. I wouldn't decrease the chili powder in the dressing, because all the flavors balance each other (salty, sour, sweet, hot). This dressing has no problem standing up the flavor of smoked meat and should compliment it well.

Dressing: (T= tablespoon, t = tsp) as with all Thai cooking, taste as you go

1 T ground hot pepper powder (use a hot kind, Thai or Indian if you have it)

2 T vinegar (white or apple cider, not rice)

2 T lime juice

1 T sugar

2 T fish sauce

1/2 t salt

mix everything together and bring to a boil. Turn off the heat and add

1 1/2 T crushed roasted peanuts

Separated the chicken from the bones and slice diagonally into thin slices,

Mix the chicken with the (cooled) dressing. Add

1 thinly sliced onion (or the equivalent amount of shallots)

1 thinly sliced tomato

mix well

Arrange on lettuce on a platter, serve with fresh vegetables such as raw cabbage.

As you can see, amounts are vague, outside of the dressing, so you can tinker till you like it. You could add herbs (cilantro, maybe mint, culantro, slivered kaffir lime leaves) but it's just fine with onion and tomato alone. Of course, a good tomato also helps. Unlike laap, this salad holds well because the dressing is cooked, so the lime juice won't go off after sitting for a while, and there are no herbs to go off either (unless you decide to put some in). You can mix the meat with the dressing well in advance and then add the rest of the stuff before you serve.

[thistle]

Thanks, that sounds like an excellent alternative, although I might swap out cashews (or even keep them separate) for peanuts, several people are trying to eat primal/ paleo, & cashews are slightly more acceptable. Of course, I'd also have to use a sugar substitute or find some coconut sugar, wonder where palm sugar is on the scale? Arghh, kind of makes my head hurt, but w/ a salad that's somewhat deconstructed (except for the dressing), they could avoid things on their own. I'm not going to worry too much, & just try to have a large variety, so everyone can find something they can eat.

[Fishinnards]

Thanks, that sounds like an excellent alternative, although I might swap out cashews (or even keep them separate) for peanuts, several people are trying to eat primal/ paleo, & cashews are slightly more acceptable. Of course, I'd also have to use a sugar substitute or find some coconut sugar, wonder where palm sugar is on the scale? Arghh, kind of makes my head hurt, but w/ a salad that's somewhat deconstructed (except for the dressing), they could avoid things on their own. I'm not going to worry too much, & just try to have a large variety, so everyone can find something they can eat.

I usually use palm sugar (or coconut sugar). You will need to add a tiny bit more if you do as it's not quite as sweet. You can even used the dried out hard stuff because it melts when you cook the dressing. I think crushed peanuts give it a great taste, but cashews are always good. I will now try to continue keep my mouth shut about the whole "primal/paleo" fad.

[Fishinnards]

Snow Day! Between bouts of snow shoveling I decided to make Lad Na (Rad Na) à¸à¹‹à¸§à¸¢à¹€à¸•à¸µà¹‹à¸¢à¸§à¸£à¸²à¸”หน้า. This is the Thai version of a Chinese dish and has many ingredients and techniques not common to other Thai dishes. There are many ways to cook Rad Na. I hadn't made it in a while but watched this Thai TV show on Rad Na and got a bit of inspiration. A good recipe (with a video in English!) can be found at Hot Thai Kitchen. I took many photos as I cooked and now I will share them with you!

Today we used chicken ไà¸à¹ˆ

Skinned, de-boned and sliced

Chicken is marinaded in a bit of dark sesame oil, Chinese rice wine, white pepper, soy sauce, and tapioca starch (you could use corn starch).

The marinade will give the meat a slippery coating resulting in nice tender bite.

Lots of garlic

well chopped

Fried in peanut oil. When using a smaller amount of oil I like to add the garlic to cold oil and gradually heat it. It gives more control over the browning.

We are going for crispy fried garlic

We want it to brown

And then drain and save that garlic oil

Chinese broccoli (pak ka na ผัà¸à¸„ะน้า) stems sliced and leaves roughly chopped

We have some local fresh rice noodles

Sliced and separated (see Pad See Ew above)

Homemade Chinese chicken stock

We will fry the noodles in garlic oil with some dark soy sauce for color.

We want the noodles to clump and char a little

Fried noodles and set aside with the remaining ingredients at the ready, chicken stock, tapioca starch slurry, marinaded chicken slices, white pepper, Chinese broccoli, soy sauce, golden mountain sauce, palm sugar (regular sugar would be fine in this dish), and fried garlic

And Tao Jiew เต้าเจี้ยว, fermented soy bean paste, Chinese miso or doen jang

Boil the stock and add fermented soy bean paste, soy sauce, golden mountain sauce, a bit of palm sugar, and white pepper

Add the chicken

Boil till the chicken is tender

Add the greens and most of the fried garlic

Taste and adjust and then thicken with the tapioca starch slurry

pour over the fried noodles

sprinkle the remaining fried garlic on top

Serve with chillies in vinegar (a must!) and dried chilli flakes

Yum อร่อยมาà¸

[lizzie]

Fishinnards - thank you for these great posts! I make a lot of asian noodle dishes but have generally focused more on Indonesian, since that is what I was first taught. Question about your homemade chinese chicken stock - what do you add to the stock to get the chinese flavors? I am always looking for something that veers away from the carrot/onion/celery additions.

[Fishinnards]

Fishinnards - thank you for these great posts! I make a lot of asian noodle dishes but have generally focused more on Indonesian, since that is what I was first taught. Question about your homemade chinese chicken stock - what do you add to the stock to get the chinese flavors? I am always looking for something that veers away from the carrot/onion/celery additions.

I learned to make Chinese chicken stock from Fuchsia Dunlop's cookbooks. The idea is to capture the meaty umami taste and the seasoning are just there to neutralize the gamey flavors. The two main seasonings are fresh ginger and Chinese rice wine (you could use sherry). You only use a small amount ginger and rice wine, not enough that you would notice them, just enough to change the smell a little (does that make sense?). With a stock like this you have more versatility and don't need to use in just Chinese food. If you were to use it for European food you could add the appropriate seasonings (onions, celery, carrots, bouquet garni etc.) and simmer for little while. I find this way I'm not locked into using it in only one kind of cuisine. To make it more Thai I sometimes add a smashed clove of garlic, a couple of coriander roots, and some white peppercorns.

I use chicken bones and feet if I can get them. Also, some pork bones are always a good idea. Sometimes I blanch the bones from a cold water start. I just bring them to a boil till the scum starts to rise and them drain and rinse the bones and then make stock. I use a pressure cooker as well.