Great American Restaurants, Inc. (GAR) - Owners of Artie's, Best Buns, Carlyle, Jackson's Mighty Find Food, Mike's American, Ozzie's Good Eats, Silverado, and Sweetwater Tavern

[ustreetguy]

I hadn't been to Carlyle Grand (well now it's just Carlyle) since they remodeled but went last night for a friend's birthday dinner. Now it really shouldn't have surprised me, but when I opened the menu I started to wonder whether I had eaten here more recently that I thought. You see at some point in the past year, I've probably met friends at Arties, Coastal Flats, or Sweetwater Tavern and I started noticing a pattern on the menu at these places (similar to the Passion Foods places that someone pointed out a few months ago).

Have the Great American Restaurants group just gotten lazy or have the menus of all their restaurants always been practically the exact same? I think at least 5 of their 6 restaurants (I'm not including Best Buns) serve the Tex Mex Eggrolls, Blue Crab Fritters, and Hot Spinach & Artichoke Dip - and that's just the appetizers. You can always count on a salad with Warm Goat Cheese & Spiced Pecans, and for dessert you'll never have to miss out on the Warm Flourless Chocolate Waffle. I won't even go into the main courses.

As for specifics about the food, my halibut (special last night) was sauced with the same mystery brown sauce that accompanied the roast pork tenderloin another friend had ordered. A bite of the Hong Kong Style Sea Bass made me wince from its overly sweet sauce (live near Tyson's? Try it for yourself at Coastal Flats!) However that goat cheese and pecan salad was actually not too bad.

All of this may be old news to people, but I had always thought that Carlyle Grand had always been favorably reviewed (it's one of WP's Editor's picks and had been one of those places that had occupied a spot on Washingtonian's Top 100 for much longer than it probably should have). Is it mere coincidence that they've dropped the word "Grand" from their name?

[ScotteeM]

Have the Great American Restaurants group just gotten lazy or have the menus of all their restaurants always been practically the exact same?  I think at least 5 of their 6 restaurants (I'm not including Best Buns) serve the Tex Mex Eggrolls, Blue Crab Fritters, and Hot Spinach & Artichoke Dip - and that's just the appetizers.  You can always count on a salad with Warm Goat Cheese & Spiced Pecans, and for dessert you'll never have to miss out on the Warm Flourless Chocolate Waffle.  I won't even go into the main courses. 

I've eaten at Carlyle, Sweetwater, Silverado, and Mike's American Grill, and there is a sameness about the food. It's not awful food, but I am disappointed that they don't have more variety among their restaurants. Why bother with different names and decor if the menu is the same?

I will say that I had excellent service the last time I ate at Sweetwater in Merrifield, and the food was very good (lobster bisque and grilled or roasted chicken with mashed potatoes).

[mdt]

My last couple of meals at a GA restaurants had me thinking the same thing. Overall I say that the quality has dropped off a bit. Not a place to go out of your way for, but certainly nothing to avoid at all costs.

[Bob Wells]

Have the Great American Restaurants group just gotten lazy or have the menus of all their restaurants always been practically the exact same? 

there's definitely a lot of menu overlap. recently someone gave us a GAR gift card for doing them a favor, and we went on line to compare menus at the various locations. after reviewing the menus we decided it didn't matter too much which one we went to.

We ended up at the Centreville Sweetwater, by the way, and it was very good.

[DLB]

Sweet Water has the best food in the mall right now:) and Best Buns has really good bread. I am surprised how they never get mentioned as a great place for bread in the DC area. Also, the smoked rib eye and the crab cakes at Carlyle are pretty damn good as well as the service

[Joe H]

For the kind of "chain" that these are I believe we are extremely lucky to have them. Of course there is similarity in many of their dishes but I'd also suggest that I'm thankful for this, especially with the dependably good salads, soups and some of their "specials." Overall for the style of restaurants these are, whether it is Artie's, Sweetwater, Mike's or Coastal Flats they are superior, perhaps far superior to other "chains" that I would compare them to. This is also reflected in the various waits for a table in them on any given night.

I wouldn't mind a bite of their shrimp ceviche or ahi tuna salad right now as a matter of fact...

[ustreetguy]

For the kind of "chain" that these are I believe we are extremely lucky to have them.  Of course there is similarity in many of their dishes but I'd also suggest that I'm thankful for this, especially with the dependably good salads, soups and some of their "specials."  Overall for the style of restaurants these are, whether it is Artie's, Sweetwater, Mike's or Coastal Flats they are superior, perhaps far superior to other "chains" that I would compare them to.  This is also reflected in the various waits for a table in them on any given night.

I would've agreed with you in the 90s, but the food I've eaten at these places in the past year have been mediocre at best. The entrees we ordered at Carlyle last night fell betwee $18-25.00. I can't say they were worth the price.

And you and I both know that a long wait isn't a surefire indication of quality. Otherwise we'd all be touting the virtues of the Cheescake Factory.

[Principia]

Given the choices available at most of the locations these joints are at, I'll take a GAR restaurant - except Carlyle, perhaps.

I only ever get to Coastal Flats and Sweetwater, and even so I've noticed menu creep.

I fail to comprehend why, if they are going to continue merging the menus of their various outlets, GAR doesn't just turn them all into CFs and STs? Or are they just too cheap to redo the buildouts?

[Meaghan]

Why change something that works, tho?

[shogun]

For the kind of "chain" that these are I believe we are extremely lucky to have them.  Of course there is similarity in many of their dishes but I'd also suggest that I'm thankful for this, especially with the dependably good salads, soups and some of their "specials."  Overall for the style of restaurants these are, whether it is Artie's, Sweetwater, Mike's or Coastal Flats they are superior, perhaps far superior to other "chains" that I would compare them to.  This is also reflected in the various waits for a table in them on any given night.

I wouldn't mind a bite of their shrimp ceviche or ahi tuna salad right now as a matter of fact...

Who are you and why are you using Joe H's account?

[B.A.R.]

I have long been a huge GAR fan. Lately, my love has been waning. It does seem that each restaurant only has two or three entrees that are special to that particular outlet, and every other menu is repetitive or "cross-marketed" from another property. Back when my wife and I were dating, we used to go to Carlyle Grand, eat well, drink heartily, and get out for a C-note pre tip. Now that's used up with a children's mea, two entrees, a shared app, dessert, and two glasses of wine (each). Still a fan, but not as passionate. Service is always stellar.

And why is it, that at every location, you must order your meat selections at least two degrees of doneness more than you generally would? I know the drill now, but Rare is Raw and MR is barely rare, across the board.

[Principia]

And why is it, that at every location, you must order your meat selections at least two degrees of doneness more than you generally would? I know the drill now, but Rare is Raw and MR is barely rare, across the board.

Are they trying to keep from appearing pretentious by avoiding the use of the existing French terms?

[Heather]

I've only been to the Tyson's Coastal Flats once, and that was for lunch. The food was nothing I would go out of my way for. The corn and crab chowder had decent flavor but someone forgot to dilute the base because I could have eaten it with my fork. The grilled salmon salad had good ingredients but a bizarrely sweet "champagne vinaigrette", and the $1 upcharge for a little disk of goat cheese seemed odd.

The service was attentive, very very attentive, to the point where I wanted to tell them to go away. And the business of bringing a fresh drink when your glass is half-empty (without asking) is charming once, but over and over through the meal is annoying as hell.

I honestly would have been happier with the eggplant, goat cheese, and bacon pizza at CPK.

[Sthitch]

I have always thought that Carlyle was one of the most overrated restaurants in the area. I have never understood why people would wait for such mediocre food. Yes, fine they have good salads, but I don’t eat salads. As for the rest of the chain, I will join the chorus and say they are suffering from sameness, and mediocre sameness at that.

If there is no wait my wife and I will happily go to Coastal Flats and order the fried calamari. In my opinion it is the single best dish that this restaurant group makes. The sweet, salty, and spiciness of it is perfect, and the squid is perfectly crispy.

[Contesstant]

I have never been disappointed in the fresh fish of the day at any of the GAR restaurants.

[Kibbee Nayee]

I've always been underwhelmed by the food at these places, to the point where they are all redundant (short smoked salmon anyone?) and it's difficult to find something worth eating on the menu. I've been to at least six of them, they are almost always crowded and overly noisy, and finding something to eat other than short smoked salmon on cloyingly sweet salad or too salty drunken ribeye is difficult. I once tried the pork chops at Silverado, thinking they would be a nice change of pace, and they were cooked to an inedible dryness. At least at Clyde's, most of the entrees have different sides carefully matched with the entree. Not at GAR....

[jandres374]

I've always been underwhelmed by the food at these places, to the point where they are all redundant (short smoked salmon anyone?) and it's difficult to find something worth eating on the menu. I've been to at least six of them, they are almost always crowded and overly noisy, and finding something to eat other than short smoked salmon on cloyingly sweet salad or too salty drunken ribeye is difficult. I once tried the pork chops at Silverado, thinking they would be a nice change of pace, and they were cooked to an inedible dryness. At least at Clyde's, most of the entrees have different sides carefully matched with the entree. Not at GAR....

They don't pretend to be cutting edge or aspire to be that. They aim to be consistent and offer options that most people are comfortable with and enjoy and I think they are successful in that plan. If you are looking for anything more you will be disappointed. Based on how busy they seem to be even in this economy I would say they have foudn their target audience.

[DanCole42]

I find it so interesting that all these posts here are not "love it or hate it," but rather, "good or mediocre." GAR clearly doesn't inspire passion, but they seem to have consistency nailed down.

I've enjoyed every meal I've had at Coastal Flats, but I'm tempted to try Artie's per B.A.R.'s recommendation.

[DonRocks]

I find it so interesting that all these posts here are not "love it or hate it," but rather, "good or mediocre." GAR clearly doesn't inspire passion, but they seem to have consistency nailed down.

I've enjoyed every meal I've had at Coastal Flats, but I'm tempted to try Artie's per B.A.R.'s recommendation.

Artie's has a great bar area.

[Escoffier]

They don't pretend to be cutting edge or aspire to be that. They aim to be consistent and offer options that most people are comfortable with and enjoy and I think they are successful in that plan. If you are looking for anything more you will be disappointed. Based on how busy they seem to be even in this economy I would say they have foudn their target audience.

Hmmm, sounds like McDonalds, Burger King, and .... Cheesecake Factory...

[napoleonva]

I think they've got one of the best filets in the area. I eat at both Carlyle and Sweetwater fairly regularly and have never been disappointed.

[Kibbee Nayee]

Some people have a soft spot for the GAR chain. I personally find them appalling. First, they are uniformly too noisy for a pleasant meal with conversation. Second, I swear there's a trained monkey in the kitchen of each one of them, with one hand in a bucket of sun-dried cranberries and the other hand in a bucket of salt, making sure that each dish that comes out of the kitchen gets one or both flung at it to excess. Third, the creativity of menus are cringe-worthy -- must I have short-smoked salmon on every menu and all over it, and must I have those vapid garlic mashed potatoes as my side for every entree? Fourth, the quality of most ingredients conjures up the Sysco truck, at best. I could go on, but why bother? This is a religious war around here, and I am decidedly anti-GAR. And getting back to the heart of this topic, I have had better meals at M&S Grill than I've had at Mike's or Sweetwater or Silverado.

[DannyNoonan]

Some people have a soft spot for the GAR chain. I personally find them appalling. First, they are uniformly too noisy for a pleasant meal with conversation. Second, I swear there's a trained monkey in the kitchen of each one of them, with one hand in a bucket of sun-dried cranberries and the other hand in a bucket of salt, making sure that each dish that comes out of the kitchen gets one or both flung at it to excess. Third, the creativity of menus are cringe-worthy -- must I have short-smoked salmon on every menu and all over it, and must I have those vapid garlic mashed potatoes as my side for every entree? Fourth, the quality of most ingredients conjures up the Sysco truck, at best. I could go on, but why bother? This is a religious war around here, and I am decidedly anti-GAR. And getting back to the heart of this topic, I have had better meals at M&S Grill than I've had at Mike's or Sweetwater or Silverado.

I understand both sides of this argument. Agreed that it is a religious war, but here's my two cents. There is value in simplicity and consistency and i understand that but what is on the GAR plates smacks of mass produced dishes fashioned from ingredients bought by the pallet. GAR places are a step above the Applebee's/Ruby Tuesdays fare but it depends on what your benchmark is and what your expectations are going in. For me, I would rather buy the ingredients myself and make something at home than eat at a GAR.

[Ferhat Yalcin]

I haven`t tried any of their restaurants other than Carlyle and I won`t comment on food. However, the service is very consistent. Efficient, friendly and fast.

[DonRocks]

However, the service is very consistent. Efficient, friendly and fast.

Like McDonald's. It works seemingly well enough until you throw a monkey wrench into the machine.

"Please pull over and park in one of those spaces over there, and we'll bring your order right over... Beep... This is a reek hoarding..."

[mdt]

Some people have a soft spot for the GAR chain. I personally find them appalling. First, they are uniformly too noisy for a pleasant meal with conversation. Second, I swear there's a trained monkey in the kitchen of each one of them, with one hand in a bucket of sun-dried cranberries and the other hand in a bucket of salt, making sure that each dish that comes out of the kitchen gets one or both flung at it to excess. Third, the creativity of menus are cringe-worthy -- must I have short-smoked salmon on every menu and all over it, and must I have those vapid garlic mashed potatoes as my side for every entree? Fourth, the quality of most ingredients conjures up the Sysco truck, at best. I could go on, but why bother? This is a religious war around here, and I am decidedly anti-GAR. And getting back to the heart of this topic, I have had better meals at M&S Grill than I've had at Mike's or Sweetwater or Silverado.

Boring! You consistently rant against this place and it's Sysco food. Are you ever going to let it go? My guess is that you have never been into one of their kitchens or have any real clue as to where they get their food. That said, do you truly believe that most of the local Springfield joints that you rave about get their product from anything better? Please.

[Kibbee Nayee]

Boring! You consistently rant against this place and it's Sysco food. Are you ever going to let it go? My guess is that you have never been into one of their kitchens or have any real clue as to where they get their food. That said, do you truly believe that most of the local Springfield joints that you rave about get their product from anything better? Please.

More than happy to tilt with you on this one. I have had many horrific meals at GAR establishments, and have seen the Sysco truck parked at all of them throughout the mornings. And in the case of Mike's and Sweetwater, the kitchens are somewhat on display. Never saw the trained monkey flinging sun-dried cranberries or salt at any of the dishes coming out of the kitchen, but they sure taste like he's back there. And as far as service is concerned, the robotic feel at the GAR places in no way compares to the genuine mom-n-pop friendliness at the family-owned places.

Never once saw a Sysco truck at the family-owned establishments I frequent throughout Springfield and Burke. There's honest food and a family feel at Aabshaar, Ravi Kabob III, House of Siam, Tommy Thai, Canton Cafe, Delia's, Village Chicken, El Sabor Bolviano and a dozen or so others. And you can actually carry on a conversation with your dining companions at these places too!

[dcs]

I have had many horrific meals at GAR establishments

I have to ask, if this is your experience why do you keep going back?

[CajunJason]

I believe it's worth mentioning that the presence of a Sysco truck is not evidence of poor quality ingredients. Some of the finest & most celebrated restaurants in our area rely on purveyors like Sysco for products like paper towels, drinking straws, table salt etc.

[hopsing]

I love Carlyle Cafe, haven't been to the others in the group. My favorite appetizer is the lobster potstickers. Those are delicious. I also like their steak and crabcake combo. My husband loves the chicken paillard. Their bread is from their bakery next door. I don't know if it comes off a Sysco truck or not, all I know is that it tastes good. My only nit is the call-ahead system--I would prefer if they just took plain old reservations like other restaurants. Also the mashed cauliflower. I love cauliflower, but not that way. Would prefer some potato side.

[Kibbee Nayee]

I have to ask, if this is your experience why do you keep going back?

By the nature of what I do for a living, I get asked out a lot. Thankfully, I rarely have picked up a tab at a GAR restaurant.

[porcupine]

GAR plates smacks of mass produced dishes fashioned from ingredients bought by the pallet.

Hmmm... "Fresh from our pallet to your palate."

[kirite]

Hmmm... "Fresh from our pallet to your palate."

Not that it matters much, but Tom S. at WaPo, not exactly a blue collar guy, consistently recommends these restaurants and laments that none have opened in Maryland.

[jayandstacey]

The GARs cater to the masses, and the masses are willing to sacrifice certain things for "reliability" which others might interpret as "predictability". Many on this board don't fall into that camp in this way: Many here will try different places in a journey of improvement and newness of dining experience. The general population isn't willing to do that. Most know of a certain rhythm to service, to menu selections, to decor, to taste and to quality. And the risk of downside FAR OUTWEIGHS the upside surprise to them - so GAR caters to that desire. In short, people go to GAR to get:

- service that's understandable, not like dim sum or family style or other slight variations

- menu selections that cover a wide enough range of desires (beef, chicken or fish?) while never straying too far from the known realm

- decor that is of a certain level of sophistication while still following a plan: leather booths, plain tablecloths, etc.

- taste that is as expected. Pasta, gravy and other items match what people think they should taste like.

- quality that doesn't embarass, ie, they're careful not to serve a fish that's still frozen inside.

Understanding this as their goal, they succeed. It is all about NOT HAVING A BAD MEAL vs having a really good one. Which explains, IMHO, why I believe there is a higher percentage of 4 and 6 person tables vs 2 tops. These are where "other people" are taken, where the other's tastes aren't known... or more likely...the host doesn't trust their own taste. So they throw their taste to the masses, much like an inexperienced investor who might hand their money to a mutual fund vs. making their own choices. They go where many other groups of 4 go.

Which also explains, I believe, why the chain has a handful of different place names yet overlapping menus. It is that same hedging strategy that allows menu items to be tried in one place first, then applied to others. It means if a bad review happens, the other places "are different". It means that with expansion, two GAR places could be opened in a small area without local headscratching. The benefits of scale without the risks of a single name.

It is dining as risk aversion.

[kirite]

The GARs cater to the masses, and the masses are willing to sacrifice certain things for "reliability" which others might interpret as "predictability". Many on this board don't fall into that camp in this way: Many here will try different places in a journey of improvement and newness of dining experience. The general population isn't willing to do that. Most know of a certain rhythm to service, to menu selections, to decor, to taste and to quality. And the risk of downside FAR OUTWEIGHS the upside surprise to them - so GAR caters to that desire. In short, people go to GAR to get:

- service that's understandable, not like dim sum or family style or other slight variations

- menu selections that cover a wide enough range of desires (beef, chicken or fish?) while never straying too far from the known realm

- decor that is of a certain level of sophistication while still following a plan: leather booths, plain tablecloths, etc.

- taste that is as expected. Pasta, gravy and other items match what people think they should taste like.

- quality that doesn't embarass, ie, they're careful not to serve a fish that's still frozen inside.

Understanding this as their goal, they succeed. It is all about NOT HAVING A BAD MEAL vs having a really good one. Which explains, IMHO, why I believe there is a higher percentage of 4 and 6 person tables vs 2 tops. These are where "other people" are taken, where the other's tastes aren't known... or more likely...the host doesn't trust their own taste. So they throw their taste to the masses, much like an inexperienced investor who might hand their money to a mutual fund vs. making their own choices. They go where many other groups of 4 go.

Which also explains, I believe, why the chain has a handful of different place names yet overlapping menus. It is that same hedging strategy that allows menu items to be tried in one place first, then applied to others. It means if a bad review happens, the other places "are different". It means that with expansion, two GAR places could be opened in a small area without local headscratching. The benefits of scale without the risks of a single name.

It is dining as risk aversion.

You have convinced me to stay away from the GAR group. Are there any good to excellent restaurants from Vienna to McLean? I seriously doubt it. As a pevious poster put it--I'm paraphrasing--lots of money, not much taste.

[jayandstacey]

You have convinced me to stay away from the GAR group. Are there any good to excellent restaurants from Vienna to McLean? I seriously doubt it. As a pevious poster put it--I'm paraphrasing--lots of money, not much taste.

Well, in fairness, you could do much worse.

A few months ago I went for pho and the place had no heat that night. It was COLD out - and at that point the kids were cranky and we weren't about to pile back into the car to find someplace else. So we sat with our coats on while a counter-top space heater with oscillating fan slowly panned back and forth across our table. One minute I'm cold, the next minute I've got some tepid breeze in my face, along with the direct light of the heating element about 3 feet from me. To the left, to the right, to the left, to the right...Would have been better off just sitting out in the parking lot with my bowl.

I can promise that would NOT happen at a GAR. Not unlike Cheesecake Factory or Ca. Pizza Kitchen or any other such places. They're a step up from Appleby's, TGI Fridays, Chili's, Uno Pizzaria, etc...and working on the same exact theory, just less pictures in the menu and catering to a slightly different clientele.

[DanCole42]

The GARs cater to the masses

I'm going to cry "food board snobbishness" on this one. While GAR is certainly a "safe" choice, your post seems to lump them into the same category as Ruby Tuesday's and the Macaroni Grill: those are the TRUE lowest common denominator (table-service) restaurants. GAR is a local chain, and I've always thoroughly enjoyed both the food and the service: something I can't say for most of the places the common man would say cater to the common man.

[jayandstacey]

I'm going to cry "food board snobbishness" on this one. While GAR is certainly a "safe" choice, your post seems to lump them into the same category as Ruby Tuesday's and the Macaroni Grill: those are the TRUE lowest common denominator (table-service) restaurants. GAR is a local chain, and I've always thoroughly enjoyed both the food and the service: something I can't say for most of the places the common man would say cater to the common man.

Fair enough, and I agree.

And as I think about it, does success necessarily mean lower quality? Is Bruce Springsteen any less of a guitar player now that he plays stadiums? At what point has an artist or restaurant "sold out?"

I guess the bucket I'm trying to put the GARs in is that they have a laser focus on ensuring you have an experience that does not deviate far from their ideal. But is that very different from, say, Chez Francois? Maybe it is that laser focus combined with other factors like marketing pieces and expansions that make comparisons to the national chains very easy, regardless of the quality of any particular dish. I believe on those fronts (marketing, expansion strategy, etc) there are clear similarities to Ruby Tuesdays...but that doesn't mean the similarity has to spill over to the food/experience quality. It is just hard to escape the sense that it might...

.

[hopsing]

The GARs cater to the masses, and the masses are willing to sacrifice certain things for "reliability" which others might interpret as "predictability". Many on this board don't fall into that camp in this way: Many here will try different places in a journey of improvement and newness of dining experience.

Please don't lump me in as unadventurous just because I like Carlyle Cafe. I also love Chinese, Thai, Ethiopian, Indian, French, Italian, Greek and Mom-and-Pop joints. I'm willing to try any cuisine. But I also like the Carlyle Cafe. Predictable? point me to another restaurant that sell lobster potstickers.

[KMango]

Please don't lump me in as unadventurous just because I like Carlyle Cafe. I also love Chinese, Thai, Ethiopian, Indian, French, Italian, Greek and Mom-and-Pop joints. I'm willing to try any cuisine. But I also like the Carlyle Cafe. Predictable? point me to another restaurant that sell lobster potstickers.

Just for starters.

No pun intended.

[hopsing]

Just for starters.

No pun intended.

I clicked on the link and most of the hits were on potstickers or pot or lobster. The only ones that had lobster potstickers (at least on the first 2 pages) were a place in Baltimore and one in Fairfax. Thanks for looking.

[B.A.R.]

I simply can't let this one go......................... 2000 Nigl Riesling that our leader brought to the DR.com picnic last week.

I will admit to being disappointed with numerous meals at various GAR restaurants over the past few years. IMHO, they have fallen off from their previous quality levels. All of their restaurants seem to be way too similiar, despite their markedly different concepts. I suspect we will find either firecracker shrimp, salt and pepper calamari, and Lobster Bisque on the menu of their new "Italian" concept.

That being said, they are astoundingly busy and successful because they get service right. Service doesn't necesssarily mean "servers", but they get "servers" right as well.These places hum along like a well oiled machine, but the service doesn't appear robotic and formulaic. They don't have the feel of most corporate chain restaurants, which is exactly what they are. A burger or filet ordered MR at any one of their restaurants comes out the exact same - RARE. I know I will have to order my meat Med if I am eating there at it always comes out perfect. No matter how long the wait, or how busy the restaurant, the food comes out timely, well prepared, and hot. And if you ever need your server, hell, ANY server, they are omnipresent without being obsequious. I was in Coastal Flats with my family a few months back, when I counted 11 servers at one point in our section, which was about 48 seats. A child spilled a glass of milk on the floor and it was gone in less than a minute.

They are Disneyesque in their adherance to service standards and principals. My wife waited tables there when she was 18 for three months. She spent the rest of her college years supporting herself waiting tables, and she swears to this day that it was the best run, most professional, most collegial restaurant she ever worked in. Every server had to report to work carrying their presssed and drycleaned shirt. Tag still on it. Shirt still in the bag. They also had to have two pressed and dry cleaned aprons for each shift, just in case one gets dirty during your shift. Working a double, better bring two shirts and four aprons, or you'll be going home. That was 15 years ago, but whenever I see a server walking across the street into Arties, they're carrying their dry cleaning with them.

You never get a waiter that doesn't know what is in a dish. Or what is on Tap. Or BTG. Or what the bottled beer is. You have to ask a pretty unusual question for them not to know the answer, and that answer is always "I'll check". I have never met a restauranteur that doesn't admire their dedication to staff training and server quality.

Ever need a manager? There will be one to your table in a few minutes. Every restaurant, every time.

I really wish that the food was as good as it was maybe 10 years ago. It's not. But they get most of the other things so right, that it is little wonder they are still amazingly busy, despite the sometimes middling food.

[squidsdc]

I have the same beef with movie reviewers as I do here...more often than not, a movie is reviewed by a standard that does not apply. For example, take something like "Letters to Juliet" One review I read bashed it for being the same old love story. But how about reviewing it for the audience that is going to seek it out? The (mostly) women and teens that want to see a love story, will most likely love to see it, and enjoy it. I have not personally seen the movie myself, but since I read this review in the Post it just jumped out at me how frustrated I get when movies are not reviewed for what they are, and the audience for whom they are intended.

So this brings me back to GAR. Stop trying to fit the square peg in a round hole and take it for what it is. It is several steps above a Ruby Tuesday or whatever other mass chain those have referenced before. Just because it is formulaic, does not mean it is "bad," just perfect for when one needs that type of place. My family, which has several different dining needs, does very well here. On Saturday we trekked from Silver Spring to Fairfax to go to Artie's for my father's birthday celebration. Everyone was able to order to their liking, allergies are handled quite well, as are special requests for "sides" etc. The thing I find funny about GAR, however, is that their model works really well for groups, but they themselves limit to only groups of a certain size. So if one has lots of extended family in the area (as I do) you may have problems fitting them all in at a GAR location.

Our food was well prepared and quite good. Halibut, Beef Ribs, Spare Ribs, and Salmon were the entrees we ordered. Of the 3 Halibut orders, each one had a different special request, or substitute, due to lactose intolerance, soy allergy and high cholesterol concerns. The main complaint from our dining here was that the plates were too big, and nearly forced those on the ends of the table to feel "squished."

Unfortunately, we've not found a place in Silver Spring or nearby that can do what the GAR group does so well.

[jayandstacey]

Please don't lump me in as unadventurous just because I like Carlyle Cafe. I also love Chinese, Thai, Ethiopian, Indian, French, Italian, Greek and Mom-and-Pop joints. I'm willing to try any cuisine. But I also like the Carlyle Cafe. Predictable? point me to another restaurant that sell lobster potstickers.

I've actually lumped you into the adventurous group by virtue of being on this board. The point is that GARs focus more on the masses, everybody, which only include a relatively small number of adventurous souls. I don't believe I've said their quality lacked, or that you couldn't get good meal there. Or that you couldn't be a fan. Rather, just that it is taking a little different approach from most places we discuss here.

As for predictability, I'd put lobster pot stickers into that category of foods that are easily understood. I know potstickers and I know lobster. I can readily guess what a lobster potsticker is going to be about and so can the masses. Not so with many of the ethnic foods where the ingredients, spices and even method of eating are 'foreign' to the average american. Yes, GARs are ahead of Ruby Tuesdays, where even potstickers might be too far off center. But not by too much in this regard. They aren't out to differentiate primarily on their menu choices, whereas many mom and pops will open to meet a local need for a different menu (like a local missing ethnic choice).

And again, predictabilty isn't such a bad thing. As pointed out, in service it can be a very good thing. And i was using predictability to cover all aspects of the GAR experience, not just the menu selections.

But there are some sacrifices:

- The chances of developing a relationship with a known waiter or host are slim. But note that's where the heavy training comes in - mom and pop places can deliver familiarity in the form of "hey Jay, great to see you again!" whereas GARs deliver it in the form of a hostess who will ask the same questions, give you the same beeper (if there's a wait) and provide the same reliable wait time info. Because they have it down to a science that can be relied upon vs a single person that can be relied upon.

- There's little chance of a true "special" or deviation from the menu on a given night. Like taking advantage of some different fresh fish available just that morning, or the chef trying a new recipe that night.

Do these mean you'll get bad food or that you can't like GARs? Of course not! And truth be told, you could probably do well to become a regular at the bar and get the familiarity that might not happen in the dining room.

In sum, this isn't a black-and-white, GAR-is-bad and mom-and-pops are good stance. Rather just my own point of view on what makes them a little different (and more successful) than most.

[Kibbee Nayee]

Normally these places are fine, and they are great for the unadventurous type, you know people in town or etc. But my dish last night was so salty. And had I not ordered asparagus, then the pud of corn salsa would have been the only veg, at least the asparagus was good. And the service was very slow, I think our server just had too many tables, but it took forever to get our wine and have an order placed, after that the service got better though.

I find this restaurant group to be atrocious. The same basic boring menu at every restaurant, with salads that can't exist without sundried cranberries (yuk!), short smoked salmon (whatever that is) all over every menu, the same unimaginative redskin mashed potatoes for every side dish, a sandwich menu that doesn't have a sandwich worth ordering and far too much salt on every entree. And this is at every one of their restaurants, each of which add the additional dining enjoyment of deafening noise. I can't imagine the draw of these places, and I equate their food with TGI Fridays or Applebees.

[brian]

I've always been underwhelmed by the food at these places, to the point where they are all redundant (short smoked salmon anyone?) and it's difficult to find something worth eating on the menu. I've been to at least six of them, they are almost always crowded and overly noisy, and finding something to eat other than short smoked salmon on cloyingly sweet salad or too salty drunken ribeye is difficult.

Some people have a soft spot for the GAR chain. I personally find them appalling. First, they are uniformly too noisy for a pleasant meal with conversation. Second, I swear there's a trained monkey in the kitchen of each one of them, with one hand in a bucket of sun-dried cranberries and the other hand in a bucket of salt, making sure that each dish that comes out of the kitchen gets one or both flung at it to excess. Third, the creativity of menus are cringe-worthy -- must I have short-smoked salmon on every menu and all over it, and must I have those vapid garlic mashed potatoes as my side for every entree?

More than happy to tilt with you on this one. I have had many horrific meals at GAR establishments, and have seen the Sysco truck parked at all of them throughout the mornings. And in the case of Mike's and Sweetwater, the kitchens are somewhat on display. Never saw the trained monkey flinging sun-dried cranberries or salt at any of the dishes coming out of the kitchen, but they sure taste like he's back there.

I find this restaurant group to be atrocious. The same basic boring menu at every restaurant, with salads that can't exist without sundried cranberries (yuk!), short smoked salmon (whatever that is) all over every menu, the same unimaginative redskin mashed potatoes for every side dish, a sandwich menu that doesn't have a sandwich worth ordering and far too much salt on every entree.

It seems like you have a very legitimate complaint about how the Great American Restaurant Group keeps pushing out the same items with little variation.

[genericeric]

I can't imagine the draw of these places, and I equate their food with TGI Fridays or Applebees.

Applebee's is the only bar outside of security at the Richmond airport, where I had the misfortune of eating last night. We all have differing experiences/tastes etc and I'm not a huge cheerleader of the GAR chain (I too have gotten GAR menu fatigue) but I've never had anything at a GAR that was half as bad as the ill-conceived, ill-prepared glop that was our pair of salads last night. I've found some of their fish specials to be pretty decent, and a lot of times their seasonal vegetables are better than average.

[Joe H]

Jackson's may do $11 million a year and there is not a single VA wine in the house. I know because I asked. In person. 230 Virginia wineries now and Jackson's doesn't sell a single one of them? Do any of the Great American Restaurant Group restaurants sell Virginia wine?

Someone please tell me I am wrong.

[webbo]

GAR pays attention to the details.  I find them to be extremely consistent, but not spectacular.

Are they regional / national, or still just local?

[Kibbee Nayee]

Many of you know that I dislike the GAR Group, its noise, its monotonous menus across all the differently named restaurants, and so on and so forth....so it would be remiss of me not to point out a nice little chance meeting that happened just yesterday at the Springfield Post Office on Backlick Road.

I was conducting business with one clerk, and next to me with another clerk was a young man in Chef's clogs wearing a Culinary Institute of America jacket. We were both walking out at the same time, and I asked him if he graduated from the C.I.A. He confirmed that he did, and then I asked where he worked. He responded that he worked at the Great American Restuarant Group, and at Carlyle specifically.

Then I grilled him a bit, but good naturedly, and asked him why everything on the appetizer menu seemed to come from the Sysco truck to the fryer to the plate. His response was "Oh, no, Sir, we make everything from scratch. Only the french fries are frozen."

He stopped me in my tracks. Here was a pleasant young man, well groomed, a C.I.A. graduate, and very polite. Then he told me that the pay was good, the cleanliness was top-notch, and the benefits couldn't be beat. For those reasons, I will voluntarliy set foot inside a GAR restaurant again -- but hopefully, someone will get them to stop putting those stupid dried cranberries in their salads.

His name is Brandon, and Brandon's Little Food Truck is his "day" job. It can occasionally be found at Court House in Arlington, where I will definitely be taking lunch at some point soon.