Chili

[DonRocks]

Today I had homemade "Michigan Style" chili for the first time. If you must know, it was at Lynn Street Cafe in Rosslyn - a typically dreary office-lunch place, complete with a basket of bananas, apples, and oranges by the cash register (I couldn't stand the thought of going to Chipotle Grill or Baja Fresh. The chili was lame, and served at icebox temperature in parts as they had clearly just carted it out from the refrigerator shortly before dumping it into the cauldron). Anyway, does anyone know if there's such a thing as Michigan Style chili? The only thing notable about it was that it was beanless, with mushroom chunks acting as surrogates.

Cheers,

Rocks.

[Meaghan]

Today I had homemade "Michigan Style" chili for the first time. If you must know, it was at Lynn Street Cafe in Rosslyn - a typically dreary office-lunch place, complete with a basket of bananas, apples, and oranges by the cash register (I couldn't stand the thought of going to Chipotle Grill or Baja Fresh. The chili was lame, and served at icebox temperature in parts as they had clearly just carted it out from the refrigerator shortly before dumping it into the cauldron). Anyway, does anyone know if there's such a thing as Michigan Style chili? The only thing notable about it was that it was beanless, with mushroom chunks acting as surrogates.

Cheers,

Rocks.

Wolverines eat that stuff. What, were you doing penance or something?

[AlliK]

Anyway, does anyone know if there's such a thing as Michigan Style chili?

Cheers,

Rocks.

Having grown up in Michigan, I'm not aware of Michigan Style chili. I guess maybe they're referring to the chili that's commonly used on hotdogs (a.k.a. Coney Dogs - for which there are many proprietors in the Detroit area) which is beanless, but I've never seen mushrooms in it. It never seemed tasty enough to merit standing on its own, but it is good on the hot dog or fries.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

By any chance, did you detect the flavor of peanut butter in the chili? Also, was the meat in the chili beef or venison? I think they make a lot of chili in Michigan with ground venison (lots of venison hunters up there).

[Anna Blume]

I lived in Michigan for a long, long, long time. Granted, there were only a handful of natives in my crowd, but we made chili in lots of different ways, including a beanless, Texas version when the vegetarians didn't outnumber the omnivores. However, I do not recall mushrooms in the stuff.

Now, there IS a Midwestern chili, associated largely with Ohio, but also served in Indiana and other parts I'm sure. It calls for SPAGHETTI and tends to have orange cheese on top with little in the way of a heat content.

Not that there's anything wrong with that ...

[MBK]

I lived in Michigan for a long, long, long time. Granted, there were only a handful of natives in my crowd, but we made chili in lots of different ways, including a beanless, Texas version when the vegetarians didn't outnumber the omnivores. However, I do not recall mushrooms in the stuff.

Now, there IS a Midwestern chili, associated largely with Ohio, but also served in Indiana and other parts I'm sure. It calls for SPAGHETTI and tends to have orange cheese on top with little in the way of a heat content.

Not that there's anything wrong with that ...

From a Frank Bruni article in today's NYT...

"Gold Star Chili, the single worst item of the journey.

It was a gummy nest of thin noodles, which were covered by a watery chili, which was in turn covered by rubbery orange confetti that bore a passing resemblance to cheese."

The author's companion's take on it? "Ewwww"

[Jacques Gastreaux]

I lived in Michigan for a long, long, long time. Granted, there were only a handful of natives in my crowd, but we made chili in lots of different ways, including a beanless, Texas version when the vegetarians didn't outnumber the omnivores. However, I do not recall mushrooms in the stuff.

Now, there IS a Midwestern chili, associated largely with Ohio, but also served in Indiana and other parts I'm sure. It calls for SPAGHETTI and tends to have orange cheese on top with little in the way of a heat content.

Not that there's anything wrong with that ...

The Cincinnati chili also as cinnamon and/or nutmeg in it (Greek influence I think).

[Meaghan]

Michigan is The Bean State (apparently).

[zoramargolis]

Geez, sounds like a total waste of calories. I'd much rather eat Baja Fresh tacos de carnitas or a Chipotle carnitas burrito, no rice, pinto beans any day. Even though they are corporate restaurants, those particular choices are quite tasty. Can't vouch for the rest of the menu at those places.

[DonRocks]

I'd much rather eat Baja Fresh tacos de carnitas or a Chipotle carnitas burrito, no rice, pinto beans any day.

So would I. Although I was rushed and hungry, I did have a master plan: this was mostly protein, and had a lot less sodium than a Chipotle burrito. Plus, with the burrito, there's an almost pathological need to finish the whole thing, whereas with this slop, I knew I could just take a couple bites and jettison the rest.

Cheers,

Whore Mel.

[jm chen]

Having grown up in Michigan, I'm not aware of Michigan Style chili. I guess maybe they're referring to the chili that's commonly used on hotdogs (a.k.a. Coney Islands - for which there are many proprietors in the Detroit area) which is beanless, but I've never seen mushrooms in it. It never seemed tasty enough to merit standing on its own, but it is good on the hot dog or fries.

Coney Dogs are crazy delicious. I wish I had one right now. The chili poured over them: beanless sounds right, mushrooms sound wrong. Think you been snookered, Don.

[Joe H]

From a Frank Bruni article in today's NYT...

"Gold Star Chili, the single worst item of the journey.

It was a gummy nest of thin noodles, which were covered by a watery chili, which was in turn covered by rubbery orange confetti that bore a passing resemblance to cheese."

The author's companion's take on it? "Ewwww"

Bruni's first mistake was going to Gold Star, the Walmart of Greek chili. Instead, he should have gone to Camp Washington. Second, he went before midnight. He also didn't note if he used Frank's Hot Sauce or, God forbid, Tabasco which would ruin great Greek chili. He didn't even mention oyster crackers, either. Then, more than likely, he unknowingly polluted the mediocre Gold Star four way with beans. Of course I would add he probably, out of ignorance, twirled the Creamette spaghetti on a fork rather than "slicing" and "scooping" it. Last, he didn't follow this with a visit to Graeter's and one of their chip flavors or a Swiss Sundae.

He should have known better.

Of course he was spot on with his thoughts about In 'n Out Burger which essentially redeemed himself for me:

"Produce matters, and the ratio of produce to patty size matters, which brings us to In-N-Out. This California chain inspires worship, and I understand why. The burgers tasted fresher than most — though, like seemingly all fast-food burgers, they were cooked to a temperature well above medium — and the vegetables atop them tasted even fresher. The juicy tomato and cooked onions on an "animal-style" cheeseburger were revelations."

[monavano]

I lived in Michigan for a long, long, long time. Granted, there were only a handful of natives in my crowd, but we made chili in lots of different ways, including a beanless, Texas version when the vegetarians didn't outnumber the omnivores. However, I do not recall mushrooms in the stuff.

Now, there IS a Midwestern chili, associated largely with Ohio, but also served in Indiana and other parts I'm sure. It calls for SPAGHETTI and tends to have orange cheese on top with little in the way of a heat content.

Not that there's anything wrong with that ...

I'd never had chili with spaghetti until I visited friends in Alexandria VA (where I now live!). They picked up some Hard Times chili and we ate it at home over spagett. Later I moved to NoVa and frequently had chili mac at the Vienna Inn. http://www.viennainn.com/lunchdinner.htm

Now, it's the usual way I serve it up. Yellow cheese and all!

edit: all better now

[demandalicious]

The Cincinnati chili also as cinnamon and/or nutmeg in it (Greek influence I think).

exactly. my family recipe also calls for brown sugar.

in my house (i grew up in michigan), especially during the winter months, we used to serve my mother's cincinatti style chili on a scoop of yellow rice with cheddar cheese on top. it's delicious! don't knock it 'til ya try it. i've altered the recipe over the years as i've become a bigger fan of spicy food, but i always use a healthy portion of brown sugar and a few pinches of cinnamon just like mom.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

exactly. my family recipe also calls for brown sugar.

in my house (i grew up in michigan), especially during the winter months, we used to serve my mother's cincinatti style chili on a scoop of yellow rice with cheddar cheese on top. it's delicious! don't knock it 'til ya try it. i've altered the recipe over the years as i've become a bigger fan of spicy food, but i always use a healthy portion of brown sugar and a few pinches of cinnamon just like mom.

Heck, whenever I go to make Cincy style chili, I just use a pack of the mix from Hard Times.

[Joe H]

Hard Times' Cincinnati is not the same as, say, Skyline which is sold by Harris Teeter. In Hard Times they grate their cheese more coarsely than Skyline/Empress/Gold Star/Camp Washington. All of the latter have very fluffy cheese and minced onion. Hard Times onion is chunkier. The four Cincinnati places all use Creamettes spaghetti which is thinner than whatever generic brand Hard Times uses. The actual texture of the respective Cinncinati restaurants' chili is different from Hard Times. In fact the first time that I had Hard Times Cincinnati chili was in the late '70's and I thought it really had little in common with Cincinnati. This was driven home to me when Cincinnati's Skyline opened two stores in the D. C. area: one in Union Station and the other near Merrifield. I use to drive from Silver Spring there at least once a month just for a four way and a cheese Coney. I'm not trying to be disagreeable but what Hard Times calls Cincinnati chili really tastes very little like authentic Cincinnati chili. Of course what they call Texas chili tastes very little like, say, Frank X. Tolbert's. Their Texas chili is actually their version of Hazel's chili from U Street in the '40's and '50's where her menu called her greasy variation "Texas" and became something of a legend before she closed in the '70's. I still remember the day Hard Times opened their first store on King street and drove there from Silver Spring after the Post ran a huge front page (whatever their Style section was called then) story about the return of Hazel's chili to the D. C. area.

This is a GREAT recipe for chili. (I came in second to him in a cookoff at Rosecroft in 1979 which was a qualifier for the world chili championship at Terlingua.) It is called Capital Punishment and won the cookoff in 1980. If someone makes it, the absolute best is when you replace the four tablespoons of beef bouillion and two cups of water with beef stock from Emeril's. I posted the recipe for this under "Spanish mushroom soup." The result is remarkably complex and delicious.

Bill Pfeiffer's Chili Capital Punishment

Winner of 1980 World's Championship

1 tablespoon oregano

2 tablespoons paprika

2 tablespoons MSG

9 tablespoons chili powder (I use Gebhardt's)

4 tablespoons cumin

4 tablespoons beef bouillon (instant crushed)

2 cans beer

2 cups water

4 pounds extra lean chuck (chili grind)

2 pounds extra lean pork (chili grind)

1 pound extra lean chuck, cut into 1/4-inch cubes

2 large onions, finely chopped

10 cloves garlic, finely chopped

1/2 cup oil or kidney suet

1 teaspoon mole (powdered)

1 tablespoon granulated sugar

1 teaspoon coriander

1 teaspoon hot pepper sauce (I use Frank's)

1 (8 ounce) can tomato sauce

1 tablespoon Masa Harina

Salt to taste

In a large pot, add oregano, paprika, MSG, chili powder, cumin, beef bouillon, beer and water. Let simmer.

In a separate skillet, brown 1 1/2 pounds of meat in oil or suet until meat is light brown. Drain and add to simmering spices. Continue browning meat in batches until all meat has been added.

Sauté finely chopped onions in oil or suet. Add to spices and meat mixture. Add water as needed. Simmer two hours. Add mole (MOE-lay), sugar, coriander, hot pepper sauce and tomato sauce. Simmer 45 minutes.

Dissolve Masa Harina in warm water and add to chili. Add salt to taste. Simmer 30 minutes.

Yields 14 to 18 servings.

Edited May 26, 2006 by Joe H

[porcupine]

1 teaspoon mole (powdered)

What? powdered? I've made plenty of mole but I've never heard of powdered. What's in it?

[Jacques Gastreaux]

Hard Times' 2 tablespoons paprika

2 tablespoons MSG

9 tablespoons chili powder (I use Gebhardt's)

What kind of paprika do you use, hot sweet, smoked....? Also, where do you find Gebhardt's chili powder in this area, I got some mail order but have run out. I also sometimes get a reaction to MSG. Is it essential? Is there something that could substitute (Adolph's).

[Michael Landrum]

Today I had homemade "Michigan Style" chili for the first time. If you must know, it was at Lynn Street Cafe in Rosslyn - a typically dreary office-lunch place, complete with a basket of bananas, apples, and oranges by the cash register (I couldn't stand the thought of going to Chipotle Grill or Baja Fresh. The chili was lame, and served at icebox temperature in parts as they had clearly just carted it out from the refrigerator shortly before dumping it into the cauldron). Anyway, does anyone know if there's such a thing as Michigan Style chili? The only thing notable about it was that it was beanless, with mushroom chunks acting as surrogates.

Cheers,

Rocks.

Perhaps the reference is to a secret ingredient, the name of which was erroneously lifted from the first name of a much celebrated Warner Bros. cartoon icon, rather than his more correct last name. Hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my ragtime ga-a-a-a-a-l...

[Joe H]

What kind of paprika do you use, hot sweet, smoked....? Also, where do you find Gebhardt's chili powder in this area, I got some mail order but have run out. I also sometimes get a reaction to MSG. Is it essential? Is there something that could substitute (Adolph's).

Hungarian paprika in the red can. I always have some Gebhardt's lying around which I buy in Texas when I travel there on business. The recipe I pasted is the original from 26 years ago. Today I would not use MSG. The addition of the beef stock is a huge improvement over what is already outstanding chili. It's the same stock that I used in the Spanish mushroom soup that you had (and Zora correctly corrected me on). It adds very real depth and complexity, two features not necessarily common to any chili.

Hungarian paprika in the red can. I always have some Gebhardt's lying around which I buy in Texas when I travel there on business. The recipe I pasted is the original from 26 years ago. Today I would not use MSG. The addition of the beef stock is a huge improvement over what is already outstanding chili. It's the same stock that I used in the Spanish mushroom soup that you had (and Zora correctly corrected me on). It adds very real depth and complexity, two features not necessarily common to any chili.

An apology for the above post: I inadvertantly tripled spaced and did not mean to. This is just to show that I can amend my ways if I simply think a bit first.

[Al Dente]

Substitute wolverine for the beef. I believe Whole Foods carries it.

[monavano]

Substitute wolverine for the beef. I believe Whole Foods carries it.

And cook it on the engine of your GMC Yukon for a real authentic taste!

[porcupine]

And cook it on the engine of your GMC Yukon for a real authentic taste!

Manifold Destiny

[KOK]

Hard Times' Cincinnati is not the same as, say, Skyline which is sold by Harris Teeter.

Joe, do you know if any Harris Teeter stores around here sell the Skyline in a can, or frozen? I looked on-line but saw nothing on the Harris Teeter website.

Thanks,

Kevin

[Sthitch]

Joe, do you know if any Harris Teeter stores around here sell the Skyline in a can, or frozen? I looked on-line but saw nothing on the Harris Teeter website.

Thanks,

Kevin

I have seen it frozen at several Harris Teeter locations around (Glebe Rd and Pentegon Row). I found the frozen to be a pale version of what you get at a Skyline locations.

[Al Dente]

Anyone making chili for the big game this weekend?

Remember, it's the World Championship! We had to beat Mozambique and Bulgaria to get there, and we sure kicked Cambodia's ass.

[mdt]

Anyone making chili for the big game this weekend?

Remember, it's the World Championship! We had to beat Mozambique and Bulgaria to get there, and we sure kicked Cambodia's ass.

Nope. Oven braised pork shoulder and roasted red peppers for sandwiches. And that opening round game against Liechtenstein was a doozy!

[Anna Blume]

Anyone making chili for the big game this weekend?

I actually bought canned American tomatoes to make chili some time next week, but what big game?

The Jacques Rivette film series continues at the National Gallery both Saturday and Sunday...

[jparrott]

tomatoes

chili

<stirring the pot>

Eh? Eh?

</stirring the pot>

[plunk]

Anyone making chili for the big game this weekend?

Remember, it's the World Championship! We had to beat Mozambique and Bulgaria to get there, and we sure kicked Cambodia's ass.

yup (and grilled wings). don't have a recipe for the chili, though, as it is a very dynamic process. its a red style with beans and usually has a nice chipotle/adobo flavor. served over pasta or tortilla chips. most likely will be washed down with a few moscow mules (we've got copper mugs and everything!).

[Anna Blume]

(Upon reference to tomatoes in chili:)

<stirring the pot>

Eh? Eh?

</stirring the pot>

I know, I know. What can I say? I'm from the wrong part of the country, and since I've socialized with lots of vegetarians, I'm adding beans, too. Do I get credit for using Mexican oregano and several different kinds of dried chilies? Or finding out Italy's playing against France in the Rugby Union 6 National Championship?

[jparrott]

I've socialized with lots of vegetarians

What is this, True Confessions Fridays?

OK, all right. I once bought Aussie shiraz with my own money.

[JPW]

What is this, True Confessions Fridays?

OK, all right. I once bought Aussie shiraz with my own money.

Yeah, but is the other rumor true that you have a secret stash of white zin at home?

[jparrott]

Yeah, but is the other rumor true that you have a secret stash of white zin at home?

No, but I do own a bottle of vodka.

[jparrott]

Mexican oregano and several different kinds of dried chilies?

Fresh mexican oregano? If so, what's the source? If dried, what's the source?

[Anna Blume]

^NO! I've also socialized with (and worn Vera Wang at the wedding of) someone whose idea of a vacation is picking grapes for Doug Nalle.

[Sthitch]

Fresh mexican oregano? If so, what's the source? If dried, what's the source?

Dean and Deluca sells the dried version. I wish I could find a cheaper source.

[ManekiNeko]

Dean and Deluca sells the dried version. I wish I could find a cheaper source.

Wait awhile and Penzey's will make do on that (or you could mail order). They carry both Mexican and Turkish oregano.

My "chili" (and I'll concede to the purists on this) is entirely vegetarian, but that's cuz I feel chili should hurt upon entry and exit. Meat, with all its fatty goodness, tends to get in the way of the heat and the flavor of the peppers and spices. Plus I like beans, much to the chagrin of my wife.

[bioesq]

Dean and Deluca sells the dried version. I wish I could find a cheaper source.

The Bethesda Co-op at 6500 Seven Locks Road in Cabin John sells it for 88 cents an ounce in their bulk spice section.

[Anna Blume]

Fresh mexican oregano? If so, what's the source? If dried, what's the source?

No, not fresh. There's a teeny little bodega next to Yes in Adams Morgan that has good prices and a great selection for its size, especially.

Then, the notorious Safeway in the same neighborhood has been carrying more and more Latino/a groceries, including dried spices.

If Mount Pleasant is convenient, there are options there. Bestway is the name of the big supermarket-sized store that I visit from time to time. Here's the redesigned web site which lists many other locations in the area.

[The Hersch]

I have some Mexican oregano in my cupboard purchased at Wal-Mart in Wilson NC. You could go there. Also, they have a pretty wide range of Mexican herbs and spices at the 7-Corners Grand Mart, although I cannot swear to oregano. They probably have it.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

Mexican oregano is available at SFW.

[Al Dente]

Briskets a braisin' with onions, poblano peppers, ancho, chipotle, Hatch chili powder, toasted cumin, homemade beef stock, tomatoes, a little tabasco, and various other spices. I'll leave it in the oven in the Le Creuset at 250 until about 7:30-8:00.

[Poivrot Farci]

Iberian White Chili.

Coco beans, salt cod, panceta, chipirones, bay scallop, shrimp, pickled white anchovy, mussels, fennel, spanish onion, lemon and parsley bound with an espelette béchamel. Accoutrements of grated garrotxa and peppered crème fraîche.

Awarded cheers and no less than the 9' non-functioning-sombrero-and-cactus-light-string-thing blue ribbon & mini rum bottle at NOAA's 1st and possibly only Chili Challenge Whathaveyou. Unceremoniously redubbed Cheater Chili by disparaging no-hopers and bitter Waterloo revisionists. Jeers and a humiliating Hormel Trophy went the stillborn SPAMish gruel which best exuded chili atrophy; the winning gov't employee cried...heh-heh.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

What is a good local source for dried chili peppers? SFW has the usual varietes but I'd like to locate some chipotles and SFW always seems to be out of anchos.

[mdt]

What is a good local source for dried chili peppers? SFW has the usual varietes but I'd like to locate some chipotles and SFW always seems to be out of anchos.

Any Latino market. I also think World Market carries a bunch, but I have no idea on the quality. I would just order what you want from Penzey's.

[Al Dente]

What is a good local source for dried chili peppers? SFW has the usual varietes but I'd like to locate some chipotles and SFW always seems to be out of anchos.

I've bought from SFW often. Whole Foods Old Town has a decent selection of dried chilis in Produce. For my batch of chili yesterday (which was awesome), I bought them at Safeway on the hill (which suck-diddly-yucks).

[Anna Blume]

What is a good local source for dried chili peppers? SFW has the usual varietes but I'd like to locate some chipotles and SFW always seems to be out of anchos.

See Post 40. Bestway's in Herdon & Falls Church, if not Alexandria.

Whole Foods charges ridiculous prices for dried chilies because they're a gourmet item vs. the day-to-day ingredient for shoppers in Latin grocery stores.

(WF stores sold beef chuck at a great price this weekend, though, for the Superbowl.)

[Husband]

I have to chime in for three reasons. First, I have to defend cincinnati chili. I'm a native son and I would say that by far Goldstar is the worst version that is easily available. I would tell you that if you have have a singlular version of it, you want to have Skyline. There are other good versions in Cincinnati, but this version is the standard bearer for the dish. I suspect Bruni had Goldstar because he was passing through the Airport and there is only Goldstar in the Airport.

Second, Cincinnati Chili is a perception issue as much as anything. It is NOT chili like most people think of chili. If you are going to eat it for the first time, do not say to yourslef this is chili. It's really speghetti with greek style meat sauce. I just think people who get themselves in a twitch so often think they are getting beautiful meaty stew when its nothing of the sort.

Third, I'm going to shamelessly drop some knowledge for people. If you want a fairly reliable and mostly authentic version of the recipe, I have my own version on my blog. So try some cincinnati chili at home. It is definately an acquired taste, I've had Hard Times and I don't think it's that good a version either, so spare yourself the misery and jump right into it.

[JPW]

Welcome to our merry group, Husband!

Acquired taste? I do believe that I agree.