American Express vs. Visa in Restaurants

[DonRocks]

The only thing that I found strange is that they do not accept American Express.  The waiter apologized and said they are still working on getting that account set up.  They do accept Visa.  I know AMEX is more expensive but I don't think I have ever been in a restaurant that accepted credit cards and not American Express.

Have other people found this to be true? I used to be a loyal AmEx member 20 years ago, and after being told they didn't accept it at a Michelin 3-star restaurant in Paris (Lucas Carton, if anyone is curious), I left and haven't looked back.

I got a rather flattering solicitation in the mail the other day, and saved it, but I'm not sure why. Airport lounges may become more-and-more important to me in the future, and that's one perk of AmEx cards - are they worth it, or not?

Right now, I'm perfectly happy with the way I currently exist, but I may ramp up my level of existence at some point in the near future.

Please give me your opinions as to whether AmEx cards - particularly upper-level AmEx cards - are worth it for those who dine, travel, and spend time in airports. My current situation is optimized for travel points, and I don't want to change that unless there's good reason to do so.

I cannot remember the last time I paid for an airline ticket; yet, I've only been in an airport lounge once in my life, and it was a lovely experience, and my Visa cards just don't seem to provide for that.

Thanks!

Rocks

[Joe H]

I've had a Platinum card since they were first released.  Over time the cost has dramatically risen to where it is now $500 or $550 a year.  There are a host of reasons that I prefer it and feel that it is worth the investment.  These include airport lounges (I no longer use miles or pay for United's Red Carpet Club), guaranteed transportation at AMEX's cost back to the U. S. if I am sick or injured overseas, compensating me for several hundred dollars of airline charges (i.e. ticket change fees, baggage, cancellation fees, etc.)(these themselves lower the cost to $350 or so), reservations in some better restaurants overseas that would not otherwise be available  (note I averaged six trips per year to Europe on business for over 20 years), better discounts on rental cars than, say, AAA, outstanding supporting travel and concierge service that is free and a significant credit line is also available that would not be with a green or gold.  I have never used this credit line but appreciate it being there.  Also, when purchasing something overseas there are no foreign transaction fees-I get the actual rate of exchange.

I will also make the argument that the AMEX Platinum card sometimes gives a kind of credibility at hotel registration that, I swear, occasionally helps secure an upgraded room which otherwise would not be available. But that's my perception.

To be honest I also view it as a reward, as a measure of success for a successful career.

I would not replace American Express' Membership Miles with any other travel reward program.  I typically transfer my points into Starwood at a rate of 3 to 1.  Because I charge everything possible on AMEX from cable and phone to gas, groceries and almost   every travel expense as well as even house repairs-everything that I can-I will end up with two free nights per year at most Starwood properties around the world.  If, say, the Willard Intercontinental or the Westin St. Francis or the Le Meridien in Munich are each 10,000 points, for me, that is a savings of approximately $400 or more per night that the card allows.

In combination with the airline compensation this now means the American Express Platinum Card is then paying me to have it.

I do not know how much you have to spend before you can qualify; it used to be $10,000 but it may be more now.

I have one VISA card and typically use it once every several years when I have no alternative.  When American Express is not accepted I use a Debit card.  American Express Platinum has been very, very good to me.

[dcs]

In my view, everyone needs two credit cards, but no more than two.  One American Express and one Visa or MasterCard.  Every now and then something funky happens to one of the cards and a store's swipe cannot read it or some other such nonsense so I always like to have a back up.  I pay up for the Gold AmEx membership to get points.  The higher level cards provide more perks such as greater lounge access, but are really nothing to justify the exorbitant membership fees charged, at least for what I need or will reasonably use. (Also, for some reason they require you to get a new card number to upgrade to the higher level cards.  I have so many bills auto paid to the AmEx card that the few times I have been tempted to upgrade, the thought of changing all of the other account information for the new card number just seemed like too much of a hassle.)  Everything goes on the AmEx that can.  The points can be transferred to most frequent flier programs, or you can use them directly with the AmEx travel service and avoid any of the blackout problems you increasingly encounter with frequent flier programs.  We all went to Rome a few years ago on AmEx points through the AmEx travel service.  Visa and MasterCard have no annual fees so it is really no trouble or expense to have one as a back up.  This strategy only works if you only buy what you need or can afford and pay off the balances at the end of every month.

Having access to American Express offices overseas is also a huge perk, or at least it used to be.  I spent a semester in Geneva in college before the advent of ATM machines and I lost my checkbook.  The American Express office let me write checks against my bank account by just giving them my bank name and location (this was back when my bank, like many back then, only had one location).  No account number needed.  They gave me blank checks, I filled in the amount, they gave me the cash, and they figured out the rest.  All because I had that card.  That earned them a lifelong loyal member.  I would feel naked traveling without it.

[barbhelm]

In the less than spendthrift area, I have kept my AmExp card over the years since it is the first one I "qualified" for (does anyone remember when you had to do that?) and I pay it off monthly.  Clearly, this reason is purely sentimental.  I, too, have a VISA as a back up when a place will not accept AmExp.

[DonRocks]

Thanks for the wonderful answers - please keep them coming!

[Mark Slater]

Small merchants don't like to accept AmEx because the rates they charge are almost double those of Visa and Mastercard. 3 1/2 %- 4 % versus 1.5 %-2%.

[lperry]

If you purchase a business or first class plane ticket with a platinum Amex, the second, companion ticket is free - you just pay the tax and fees.  One trip you would have taken anyway, and the card fee is more than paid.

[johnb]

Having access to American Express offices overseas is also a huge perk, or at least it used to be.  I spent a semester in Geneva in college before the advent of ATM machines and I lost my checkbook.  The American Express office let me write checks against my bank account by just giving them my bank name and location (this was back when my bank, like many back then, only had one location).  No account number needed.  They gave me blank checks, I filled in the amount, they gave me the cash, and they figured out the rest.  All because I had that card.  That earned them a lifelong loyal member.  I would feel naked traveling without it.

Interesting.  I lived in Geneva many years ago and that's where/why I dropped my AMEX.  At the time I had both AMEX and Diners Club.  Amex insisted that I convert my account to a card serviced out of the UK, which meant there would be no protection against liability if somebody stole the card and used it (such protection is the law in the US).  I told them what they could do with their card.  Diners was happy to continue to handle my account from the US, with the US rules, so I kept it and still have it.

The other great thing about Diners (which is now charged as a Mastercard so can be used anywhere) is that it is the only card I know of that offers primary rental car insurance, which means if you have an accident you don't have to get your own insurance company involved nor pay any deductible, which can be a big money saver.  I once had a tiny scratch in the UK and was assessed over $500 by Hertz, but got it back due to the primary insurance.  They also have a point-per-dollar program, but I've never redeemed anything except the annual membership fee ($95), so I really don't know how good it is otherwise.  I don't rent cars much any more so may drop the card, but haven't yet.

However I have now switched to Discover as my primary card, and lately have been billing $5k+ a month on it.  It's accepted nearly everywhere that Visa/MC is. They give a simple 2% cash back, so that's $100/month or more, in essence, cash in my pocket.  That's better for me than any other so-called perk; being retired, upgrades and free hotel rooms are not of much interest.  There are a few other cards that have similar programs, e.g. Fidelity has one. Personally, that makes the most sense to me.  Just give me the cash, baby!

[The Hersch]

The other great thing about Diners (which is now charged as a Mastercard so can be used anywhere) is that it is the only card I know of that offers primary rental car insurance, which means if you have an accident you don't have to get your own insurance company involved nor pay any deductible, which can be a big money saver.  I once had a tiny scratch in the UK and was assessed over $500 by Hertz, but got it back due to the primary insurance. 

A couple of years ago I was vacationing on the Riviera. I had a rental car, and I managed to put a bit of a crumple in the right rear fender backing up on a tight curve to let a huge bus coming from the other direction make the turn. (This was in the very lovely Saint-Jean-Cap-Ferrat, and I later had a lovely lunch next to the harbor.) In the wake of this incident I learned to my chagrin that my own automobile insurance covers rental cars only in the United States; I had thought the coverage was for anywhere. But what I also learned was that Visa (which was the card I used for the rental) gave me insurance coverage for international car rentals, and they reimbursed me at 100%, no deductible. The rental company was Hertz, and my experience dealing with them concerning this incident was such that I will never rent from them again, at least not in Europe. After I had paid them, they kept coming back to me over and over again claiming that I hadn't, even after I sent them documentary proof that I had. It went on for months.

Anyway, I would have expected to be covered by Amex (I have a green card but didn't use it), but was delighted to find that I was covered by Visa; that is, Visa itself, not the card issuer.

[Joe H]

A quick comment about rental cars and turning them in:  in 30+ years of heavy travel I ALWAYS personally checked my rental car in and left with a receipt.  Over the years there were four or five times that whoever was checking me in would note that there was some kind of ding in the car that shouldn't have been there.  In person, with confirmation from when I picked the car up, this was resolved so it was not an issue.

I cannot imagine what kind of bs that I might have experienced otherwise.

I don't believe I ever left a rental car checkin lane at an airport without a receipt.

[ktmoomau]

For all the reasons stated above for Platinum Amex, we have it.  But my husband is on an airplane, probably at least every other week, so airports are important to him and reward points.  We use many of the perks and find it really worth it.  I also have a Visa, but we like the perks of the Amex so we use it most.  There are certain restaurants that you can get into with Amex that you might not otherwise be able to get a reservation.  They got us our French Laundry reservation.  

[jayandstacey]

...

To be honest I also view it as a reward, as a measure of success for a successful career.

I would not replace American Express' Membership Miles with any other travel reward program.  I typically transfer my points into Starwood at a rate of 3 to 1.  Because I charge everything possible on AMEX from cable and phone to gas, groceries and almost   every travel expense as well as even house repairs-everything that I can-I will end up with two free nights per year at most Starwood properties around the world.  If, say, the Willard Intercontinental or the Westin St. Francis or the Le Meridien in Munich are each 10,000 points, for me, that is a savings of approximately $400 or more per night that the card allows.  

....

Well shoot - I didn't even know the Platinum card existed...I mean, I guess I sort of did but never bothered to look at it as a real option.

I also use my (regular) AmEx under the SPG points system.  I find those SPG points to be the best overall value for me.  I find that flying and using points is hit-or-miss with blackout dates and such, locations served by different airlines, etc.  And I don't travel often enough to supplement the points with actual miles flown.  (having said that, SPG points can be used for flights - you just don't get as much "bang" per point when burning them that way.  Better to pay for the flight and use the points for the hotel.)

OTOH, with SPG I'm using the points with almost every overnight trip, flying or not.  I've used it for some dumpy hotels in places like KY (where we were there for the horses, not the resort experience), in Barcelona to stay in that giant glass hotel that looks like a sail over the water, and to stay many nights on property in Disney World.  (the Swan and Dolphin are SPG hotels).  I can't remember the last time I paid for a hotel.

We accumulate a lot of points.  So I wonder how the ratios work out - if I'd be better with a Platinum card and transferring those points in... I doubt they are a precise 3 to 1 ratio...and given the volume of points we accrue, even a slight abritrage advantage might be worth the plantinum card price.

BTW, my favorite game is to shop at Giant food and pay with my SPG card.  I then use my gas rewards to accumulate savings on my gas, which I then also pay with my SPG card.  Then I head down the road to buy my veggies at Lotte

[jayandstacey]

I have one VISA card and typically use it once every several years when I have no alternative.  When American Express is not accepted I use a Debit card.  American Express Platinum has been very, very good to me.

For a few years I was using my debit card as my primary - until about the 3rd time the account was hacked and wiped out.  I was reimbursed all the money, but the hassle of the ripple effect on my checking account steered my away.  Now I use my SPG AmEx card (see above) with a backup Visa that has a low limit as the backup for small stuff.  I have the debit card for cash access, and in case I need to do something really drastic that only takes Visa and exceeds the limit of the Visa credit card.

[DonRocks]

For a few years I was using my debit card as my primary - until about the 3rd time the account was hacked and wiped out.  I was reimbursed all the money, but the hassle of the ripple effect on my checking account steered my away.  Now I use my SPG AmEx card (see above) with a backup Visa that has a low limit as the backup for small stuff.  I have the debit card for cash access, and in case I need to do something really drastic that only takes Visa and exceeds the limit of the Visa credit card. 

2% cash back is better than any rewards  program I've ever heard of. What are the limitations?

[jayandstacey]

2% cash back is better than any rewards  program I've ever heard of. What at the limitations?

I think you meant to ask this of JonB as he mentioned the 2%.   That's DARN good, and yes, exceeds any points program I know of.  I'd think the Discover card isn't universally accepted though - no?

I need to look at these programs again.

The Fidelity Visa card looks pretty good - 1.5% cash back on the first $15,000 per year, then 2% after that - which goes to a Fidelity account.  I'd wonder how "trapped" the money is there - if I can't move it out quickly to another investment or my wallet.

Back to the SPG program, if I spend $10,000, I get 10,000 points.   As an example, that could be used to book the Silver Spring Sheraton where for the night I looked at, the lowest price through Sheraton would be $248 a night.  For that hotel that night, that's a 2.48% return on my money.  Now - there's PriceLine and other sources that could lower the compare-to price...but it still isn't a bad deal.

[JPW]

Had dinner here tonight.  We had the 8 oz steak - oh right that is the only thing on the menu (lol).  Actually it was very good, cooked to temperature order and the sauce had nice flavor.  Nice portion size for the price without being supersized and not leaving hungry.  As mentioned above the chopped salad was very good and not overdressed.  The cauliflower was enjoyed and they didn't overcook it so it still had some crunch to it.

The only thing that I found strange is that they do not accept American Express.  The waiter apologized and said they are still working on getting that account set up.  They do accept Visa.  I know AMEX is more expensive but I don't think I have ever been in a restaurant that accepted credit cards and not American Express.

If I recall correctly, many moons ago, the service fees for Amex were a decent deal higher than those for Visa or MC. As a result, some businesses accepted Visa and MC, but not Amex. I have no idea if this still holds or not.

[Waitman]

To be honest I also view it as a reward, as a measure of success for a successful career.

That's the same way I view my Black Card.  I think the most important feature is that when I need to buy a trinket for some countess or supermodel, even at midnight or on a Sunday afternoon in Paris, the kind people at the Centurion office will have Cartier or Tiffany open up just for me.

If you purchase a business or first class plane ticket with a platinum Amex, the second, companion ticket is free - you just pay the tax and fees.  One trip you would have taken anyway, and the card fee is more than paid.

One highlight of my un-highlight-dotted career was being called to go to Monaco/Nice for a meeting with a Greek shipping billionaire and the publisher of a respected yachting magazine, and being able to take Mrs. B along for a long and romantic weekend on the Cote d'Azure, because my firm had issued us all platinum cards.  It's a pretty excellent perk.

[DonRocks]

One highlight of my un-highlight-dotted career was being called to go to Monaco/Nice for a meeting with a Greek shipping billionaire and the publisher of a respected yachting magazine, and being able to take Mrs. B along for a long and romantic weekend on the Cote d'Azure, because my firm had issued us all platinum cards.  It's a pretty excellent perk. 

Charles, I know you're dripping with sarcasm, but it doesn't take *that* much to have a Platinum card (a Black card ... that's another story). Don't forget, AmEx needs to have customers to survive! If they make it *too* exclusive, they'll be shooting themselves in the foot - it's a balancing act.

[johnb]

Apologies:   This thread caused me to look further into this and I discovered that my remarks above about Discover are wrong.  There is good news and bad news. The bad news is that the across-the-board cash back is now only 1%.  The good news is that there are 5% cash back deals for certain expenditures at certain times, though with a capped amount. Notably for Rocks and readers of DR.com this includes restaurants for three months each year, but unfortunately that is Jan-Mar so it's too late to get on the train this year.  Here is more info.  You have to sign up each time, but they make that a simple click.  Keep in mind that Discover is a no-annual-fee card, which is good.  They also have recently started to give you your FICO score on your monthly statement, which is nice.

I have seldom found a restaurant lately that didn't take the card.

Here and here is more info on good cash back cards.

[DC Deb]

I used to carry a gold AmEx when my work paid for the fees.  I now use a cash back AmEx card with no fees with a back up (also cash back) Master Card.  Cards are paid off each month so they basically pay me for using them.

I don't use a debit card because of the potential theft issues.  Luckily my bank still lets me use an ATM card.

[DonRocks]

Apologies:   This thread caused me to look further into this and I discovered that my remarks above about Discover are wrong.  There is good news and bad news. The bad news is that the across-the-board cash back is now only 1%.  The good news is that there are 5% cash back deals for certain expenditures at certain times, though with a capped amount. Notably for Rocks and readers of DR.com this includes restaurants for three months each year, but unfortunately that is Jan-Mar so it's too late to get on the train this year.  Here is more info.  You have to sign up each time, but they make that a simple click.  Keep in mind that Discover is a no-annual-fee card, which is good.  They also have recently started to give you your FICO score on your monthly statement, which is nice.

I have seldom found a restaurant lately that didn't take the card.

Here and here is more info on good cash back cards.

Okay, that makes more sense - 2% cash back across-the-board seemed too high for the competition.

I'm very happy with my "Quicken Chase Visa" cards - Google those terms if you're in the market. It's traditionally a travel-based rewards system, but they've been branching out recently. Double points for restaurants (which actually works out to more than 2% if you spend the rewards on airline tickets). Needless to say, I haven't bought an airline ticket in awhile.

I'm thinking of AmEx because, well, I just got invited to apply, and the Airport Lounge deal is pretty sweet, although I've heard they're discontinuing two major airlines in the near future which may break my interest.

[Waitman]

Charles, I know you're dripping with sarcasm, but it doesn't take *that* much to have a Platinum card (a Black card ... that's another story). Don't forget, AmEx needs to have customers to survive! If they make it *too* exclusive, they'll be shooting themselves in the foot - it's a balancing act.

I wasn't being sarcastic at all regarding the Platinum Card.  That's a true tale and wonderful memory, all thanks to American Express (I am available for an endorsement, if Mr. Frost is reading this).  My only regret was that I was apparently within walking distance of Villa Nellcôe, in whose basement much of Exile on Main Street was recorded, and never knew.  Perhaps if I'd had a black card, the "concierge" would have alerted me based on previous spending patterns.

Since I don't travel as much as I'd like and never fly business class, however, I don't see the point in paying extra for a personal Platinum (which I have been offered sporadically over the years, perhaps a reflection of their poor judgment).

[johnb]

Okay, that makes more sense - 2% cash back across-the-board seemed too high for the competition.

I'm very happy with my "Quicken Chase Visa" cards - Google those terms if you're in the market. It's traditionally a travel-based rewards system, but they've been branching out recently. Double points for restaurants (which actually works out to more than 2% if you spend the rewards on airline tickets). Needless to say, I haven't bought an airline ticket in awhile.

I'm thinking of AmEx because, well, I just got invited to apply, and the Airport Lounge deal is pretty sweet, although I've heard they're discontinuing two major airlines in the near future which may break my interest.

As a result of all this I just went ahead and applied for the Fidelity Amex Card.  That one IS a flat 2% and they simply automatically deposit the $ in your Fidelity account which I have one of anyway.  So I can use it for most things and continue to use Discover when they have the 5% deal on things I was going to buy anyway.  Considering your restaurant eating habits, I'd think the Discover would be a good deal for you at least 3 months of the year.

With regard to airline clubs, For me personally, I've had a lifetime membership in the United Club for nearly 30 years, so that takes care of that.  When I bought it it was Eastern, then it passed to Continental and now United.  I paid $500 at the time -- now I think it's several thousand if they even offer it any longer. You can't beat spending time in an airport club when you consider the alternative, but whether it's worth the cost depends on you and your travel habits, and that would apply whether you buy it directly or get access some other way, e.g. through a credit card deal.

[dcs]

I'm very happy with my "Quicken Chase Visa" cards - Google those terms if you're in the market. It's traditionally a travel-based rewards system, but they've been branching out recently. Double points for restaurants (which actually works out to more than 2% if you spend the rewards on airline tickets). Needless to say, I haven't bought an airline ticket in awhile.

One valuable perk of Chase credit cards is that they can get you preferential access to seats at Madison Square Garden and other Garden properties in New York such as the Beacon Theatre.  If you do not think that is worth much just wait until the next time you are trying to score a hot ticket at the Beacon for a show that will sell out in minutes after going on sale.

[TedE]

Okay, that makes more sense - 2% cash back across-the-board seemed too high for the competition. 

We have one of the AmEx Preferred Cash cards for everyday expenses.  It's 6% at grocery stores, but with a $6K/year limit, 3% on gas and a few other categories (unlimited) and 1% on everything else. Until a couple of years ago the 6% on groceries was unlimited, but they figured that people were gaming that by buying gift cards for lots of other stuff (need a new TV? Buy $1000 worth of Amazon cards at Safeway).  For our spending patterns these days it's the best cash back card I found.  We don't do much flying or hotel stays with two little ones, but from my days traveling for work I still have a Hilton Visa card and we get a couple nights a year out of that (I mostly keep it for the bump in reward level these days)

[Gary Tanigawa]

Nerd Wallet comparison

[lion]

We use my wife's discover for restaurant months with the greater (1-5%) cash back value and for gasoline purchases as well. Otherwise tend to use American Express and pay it off month to month. The Visa card is a backup for places that don't take AmEx.

I had a Gold AmEx but went down to a basic membership since the flight deals usually on national flights within the US were not that competitive. Back in those days, from what I recall, the companion ticket, free was available on Gold cards. I think they main benefit was for international flights.

AmEx sends introductory letters for Platinum all the time, but since we're in a non traveling phase still, think Discover is better for cash back as others have noted.

[deangold]

3.5% vs an average of about 2.3-2.4% for Visa/MC.  The type of card you use {ie lots of points elite card vs debit cards} determines the rate the business gets charged.  Anywhere from 1.6% to 2.9%.  The business pays for the perks you get.  

[SeanMike]

3.5% vs an average of about 2.3-2.4% for Visa/MC.  The type of card you use {ie lots of points elite card vs debit cards} determines the rate the business gets charged.  Anywhere from 1.6% to 2.9%.  The business pays for the perks you get.  

When I lived in Charlottesville the running joke was that the University side of the bridge didn't take AmEx, and the Downtown Mall side did.

[hm212]

While I am not in restaurant business, I do accept credit cards from clients.  AMEX is twice the cost of Visa,  We have talked about doing away with AMEX but sales feels the client backlash would be too great.  It is an expensive but necessary cost of doing business these days.

[darkstar965]

This is an interesting thread. Agree with whomever above posted about the two-card strategy (AMEX and a Visa or MC) as a good approach for many.

For Amex, never saw the value of gold or platinum (despite many solicitations) personally relative to the fees and similar perks provided from the airlines, hotels and via the web.

Agree with Joe that the MembershipRewards program trumps all others of similar ilk. Points are fungible across many hospitality providers and never expire.

Finally, the customer service is a huge thing for me. From the no-foreign-transaction-fees overseas policy and the professionalism of their call center staff to special situations, they're great.

As an example of a special situation, I was traveling in Venezuela years ago just as Chavez was coming to power. We'd taken several days to see Angel Falls and drive up the coast, including Margarita Island. When back in the States, received my statement a week or two later and noted a few thousand dollars in fraudulent charges made in different parts of the country to my card. It took only one short call to resolve with Amex taking on the full burden, without question, for any losses and to investigate and overnight me a new card. It was ridiculously smooth and easy.

All the above notwithstanding, Amex is more expensive for small business (though Square and other mobile payment platforms may be changing this which is why nearly all food trucks, coffee shops and farmers market producers using Square accept Amex) so will sometimes try to use another card or cash depending on where I am and what I know.

[johnb]

Another update to my remarks above.  As noted above, I have a Fidelity-based Amex card that pays 2% cash back across the board.  For me, straight cash back from a card with no annual fee is the optimal choice for a rewards card -- don't bother me with complicated points deals where I have to stay in a particular hotel or whatever to get my reward; just gimme the cash -- at my stage of life I don't use all those "perks" things much any more anyway.  That card has some drawbacks however, since you have to have a Fidelity account, and since you can't use it where they don't take Amex.

When Apple Pay came out I wanted to have the option to use it.  Unfortunately, although most Amex cards can be used with Apple Pay, Fidelity has not seen fit to include its card in the system.  So I went looking.  Citi has a new no-annual-charge Mastercard they call "double cash back" (it's a gimmick but it still works out to 2% flat cash back) -- they've been advertising it heavily, and it works on Apple pay, and obviously you can use the card nearly everywhere.  So I got one.  So now I have two cards that give me 2% cash back, one of which I use when I use Apple Pay, and I can basically charge everything to one or the other of them.  Meanwhile I still have the Discover Card that gives me 5% cash back on a rotating series of types of business, changing every three months, so I use it for the transactions where I can get 5% back (right now it's gas; starting in April it will be restaurants).

Works for me.

[darkstar965]

I find johnb's comment above interesting. Credit cards are like art or food. Different preferences and needs drive different decisions. The issuers have long known this which is why we have hundreds of different cards on the market and why the real complexity associated with all of that has opened the door widely for very successful new entrants like Square (little plastic square white readers attached to iPhones and iPads) and even PayPal, GooglePay and, perhaps with time, the new ApplePay johnb likes.

For me, Discover has never been an option because historically the retail acceptance rate was much lower than the three majors, AmEx, MasterCard and Visa. That had gotten better in the past couple of years but, those of us who travel (or have traveled) extensively for business have built up large points balances over time so the incentive is there to stick with whatever cards, especially AmEx. JoeH's post upthread explains this well. Using points to fund vacations (or TV sets) hasn't been at all difficult.

ApplePay is going to be fascinating to watch develop. I'm not so sure about their new watches or pay but would never bet against them. ApplePay offers real advantages in security, convenience and, I guess, coolness. But, the challenge there will surely be acceptance and getting it to critical scale. Merchants have to have the hardware (a reader) and, for small, independent businesses, that'll be a slog different from large national retailers like Barnes & Noble, Target or Starbucks who are the first retail adopters.

[johnb]

I find johnb's comment above interesting. Credit cards are like art or food. Different preferences and needs drive different decisions. The issuers have long known this which is why we have hundreds of different cards on the market and why the real complexity associated with all of that has opened the door widely for very successful new entrants like Square (little plastic square white readers attached to iPhones and iPads) and even PayPal, GooglePay and, perhaps with time, the new ApplePay johnb likes.

For me, Discover has never been an option because historically the retail acceptance rate was much lower than the three majors, AmEx, MasterCard and Visa. That had gotten better in the past couple of years but, those of us who travel (or have traveled) extensively for business have built up large points balances over time so the incentive is there to stick with whatever cards, especially AmEx. JoeH's post upthread explains this well. Using points to fund vacations (or TV sets) hasn't been at all difficult.

ApplePay is going to be fascinating to watch develop. I'm not so sure about their new watches or pay but would never bet against them. ApplePay offers real advantages in security, convenience and, I guess, coolness. But, the challenge there will surely be acceptance and getting it to critical scale. Merchants have to have the hardware (a reader) and, for small, independent businesses, that'll be a slog different from large national retailers like Barnes & Noble, Target or Starbucks who are the first retail adopters.

You're right that Discover still doesn't have the acceptance universality that the ordinary cards have, but it is getting much better (for example I haven't pulled into a gas station for a long time where it wasn't accepted); and using it overseas apparently works because they piggyback on Diners Club's merchant payment system which is very widespread outside of the US.

As I understand it, all merchants including little ones are going to have to modernize their card readers before next October when the new chip-and-pin rules take effect. Adding NFC (near field communication) to the new readers is a cheap add-on so one would think most will opt for it.  We'll see, but for those who do acceptance of smartphone-based payment systems will then be very easy.  So we should expect to see a lot more of it.  I am on record as projecting that Apple Pay will become a major revenue source for Apple within the next 5 years or so.  It will indeed be interesting to watch (no pun).

[ktmoomau]

I am in love with Apple Pay, I hope more places start using it.  It's ridiculously easy.  My Capital One Visa, Platinum Amex and my BBT cards all work on Apple Pay.  It would be REALLY nice to be able to use Apple Pay in restaurants.  I keep asking at different places I go, so maybe they will get the memo.

[darkstar965]

I am in love with Apple Pay, I hope more places start using it.  It's ridiculously easy.  My Capital One Visa, Platinum Amex and my BBT cards all work on Apple Pay.  It would be REALLY nice to be able to use Apple Pay in restaurants.  I keep asking at different places I go, so maybe they will get the memo.

Apple has the brand power and financial leverage to make that happen but will take years under the best scenarios. There are too many other powerful players competing to own as many points-of-sale as possible to make it very easy for any one, The banks and large payment processors and e-payment providers among them. And, of course, Google too. Here's hoping!