Italy

[reedm]

9 minutes ago, DonRocks said:

Having a car *in* a major city is usually more trouble than it's worth (in some cities, you'd have to be crazy), but when getting between cities, having a car can make all the difference between a straight-shot train ride, and meeting your new best friends in some random small-town tavern, and also seeing various sights along the way. It can be a tough balancing act, that's for sure.

Great points. The prospect of driving in Rome was a bit terrifying (this was many years ago). The Italians are notoriously disobedient drivers; at one point, they attempted to synchronize traffic lights, but the Roman drivers would drive twice the speed limit to take advantage of the timing. They also loved to TRIPLE park. I'll never forget the sight of someone backing up on the shoulder of the Autostrada because they missed an exit. (The exits tend to be several miles apart in places.)

One of my favorite cities!

[DonRocks]

3 minutes ago, reedm said:

The prospect of driving in Rome was a bit terrifying (this was many years ago).

Hell, the prospect of *walking* in Rome is terrifying - the scooters are lethal weapons at intersections.

[astrid]

I wouldn't drive through big European cities, even without the ticketing issue.  Parking and navigation are sufficient discouragements.  But the ticketing issue is arising for medium and small tourist cities such as Florence and Pisa.

We found Rome very walkable and honestly not much scarier than a road crossing in DC (especially suburban DC where drivers don't see anything smaller than another car).

[crazeegirl]

I'm planning a trip to Pisa-Cinque Terre-Tuscany (staying at vineyard) ....would love any recommendations of restaurants along the way.  I (am) was planning to drive but reading this post concerns me re: driving.  Are there driver options? and if so, where would one inquire?

[Rieux]

I'd drive. Honestly many of the major charming places in Italy are the small villages accessible only by car

[Rovers2000]

I drove when I was there 2 years ago (well, 2 years come October) and did Rome, Tuscany, Florence, Cinque Terre, Venice and Verona.  We used the car purely to get from place to place, parking and walking / using trains once we got to our destination.  I rented through Hertz and purchased "Neverlost" and kept a small international data plan for my phone so I could fire up google maps if needed.  The Neverlost actually had built in alerts to the speed cameras and as long as I was paying attention, found that it gave me a pretty solid warning.  I ended up getting one ticket for like 35 euros billed to me over a two week trek that head me driving across most of the middle / northern part of the country. 

To Rieux's point above, there were places in Tuscany and Verona that I would never had access to without a car.  For Cinque Terre, we drove into the area, parked above Manarola and walked down into the town (we also had a great meal at Chez Billy's there).

[DonRocks]

On 7/5/2016 at 9:48 AM, crazeegirl said:

I'm planning a trip to Pisa-Cinque Terre-Tuscany (staying at vineyard) ....would love any recommendations of restaurants along the way.  I (am) was planning to drive but reading this post concerns me re: driving.  Are there driver options? and if so, where would one inquire?

1 hour ago, Rovers2000 said:

I drove when I was there 2 years ago (well, 2 years come October) and did Rome, Tuscany, Florence, Cinque Terre, Venice and Verona.  We used the car purely to get from place to place, parking and walking / using trains once we got to our destination.  I rented through Hertz and purchased "Neverlost" and kept a small international data plan for my phone so I could fire up google maps if needed.  The Neverlost actually had built in alerts to the speed cameras and as long as I was paying attention, found that it gave me a pretty solid warning.  I ended up getting one ticket for like 35 euros billed to me over a two week trek that head me driving across most of the middle / northern part of the country. 

To Rieux's point above, there were places in Tuscany and Verona that I would never had access to without a car.  For Cinque Terre, we drove into the area, parked above Manarola and walked down into the town (we also had a great meal at Chez Billy's there).

Somewhere, at some point in time, I must have waxed poetic about the Gnocchi al Pesto I had in Spezia, which is where I stayed in 1989 while my buddy went on to Nice - I took the train from Spezia into the northern-most town in Cinque Terre, and hiked about 3-4 of the towns (they get progressively less interesting as you head south). If I had to pick one, single day as "the best day of my life when I was alone," it would be this one. I met an old lady on the goat path, so old she was hunched over, but still tending to her olive trees - or were they grapevines? It doesn't matter - this hike was the greatest thing I've ever done alone.

That evening, after training back to Spezia and taking a shower, I had dinner al fresco at a local restaurant - I have no idea which - with a carafe of Cinque Terre white wine (they make *great* white wine in Cinque Terre for everyday drinking), and to this day, that remains probably my second favorite meal of my life (okay, maybe third, but definitely *first* when I was alone). Get a gnocchi al pesto in Spezia, or Cinque Terre, and have a carafe of whatever white wine they're serving - over 25 years later, and this still makes me smile as one of the greatest memories of my life.

H/T - Rick Steves, without whom I would not have known about Cinque Terre. 

[Rovers2000]

44 minutes ago, DonRocks said:

Somewhere, at some point in time, I must have waxed poetic about the Gnocchi al Pesto I had in Spezia, which is where I stayed in 1989 while my buddy went on to Nice - I took the train from Spezia into the northern-most town in Cinque Terre, and hiked about 3-4 of the towns (they get progressively less interesting as you head south). If I had to pick one, single day as "the best day of my life when I was alone," it would be this one. I met an old lady on the goat path, so old she was hunched over, but still tending to her olive trees - or were they grapevines? It doesn't matter - this hike was the greatest thing I've ever done alone.

That evening, after training back to Spezia and taking a shower, I had dinner al fresco at a local restaurant - I have no idea which - with a carafe of Cinque Terre white wine (they make *great* white wine in Cinque Terre for everyday drinking), and to this day, that remains probably my second favorite meal of my life (okay, maybe third, but definitely *first* when I was alone). Get a gnocchi al pesto in Spezia, or Cinque Terre, and have a carafe of whatever white wine they're serving - over 25 years later, and this still makes me smile as one of the greatest memories of my life.

H/T - Rick Steves, without whom I would not have known about Cinque Terre. 

I had a similar experience to Don, but we ate in Monterosso (the western most town of the Cinque Terre).  We ate at a restaurant with a patio looking out over the ocean, just before the entrance to the trail, and it is the best gnocchi al pesto with a carafe of cinque terre white wine (from the owners vineyard) I've ever had. 

Now, in hindsight was a meal of gnocchi and a full carafe of necessary the best lunch before embarking on a hike that spanned the next 3 towns (the leg to Manarolo was closed due to floods that had happened earlier in the year), maybe not - but it was still damn delicious

[crazeegirl]

39 minutes ago, Rovers2000 said:

I had a similar experience to Don, but we ate in Monterosso (the western most town of the Cinque Terre).  We ate at a restaurant with a patio looking out over the ocean, just before the entrance to the trail, and it is the best gnocchi al pesto with a carafe of cinque terre white wine (from the owners vineyard) I've ever had. 

Now, in hindsight was a meal of gnocchi and a full carafe of necessary the best lunch before embarking on a hike that spanned the next 3 towns (the leg to Manarolo was closed due to floods that had happened earlier in the year), maybe not - but it was still damn delicious

gosh...i so can't wait...thank you for the dreamy recommendations.  wish i could fast forward to end of August.  Did either of you stay overnight?  Would two days be sufficient?

[DonRocks]

2 hours ago, crazeegirl said:

gosh...i so can't wait...thank you for the dreamy recommendations.  wish i could fast forward to end of August.  Did either of you stay overnight?  Would two days be sufficient?

One day is sufficient - either as a day trip, or as an overnight; two days might be eating into the rest of your precious vacation time more than you need to. Just make sure to get a gnocchi al pesto and carafe of Cinque Terre white.

Funny, most of you probably don't know I co-administer a super-duper, triple-top-secret, wine list composed of the best-and-brightest wine minds in the world (or at least the ones we can recruit) - one of our members just wrote this today, in response to me inquiring about dinner vs. lunch at L'Arpège:.

---

It's embarrassing to talk about value having been eating in Piedmont and Liguria this week.  I am sure there are very fancy restaurants in the areas, but the whole point is that you don't have to go that route, as even places we picked randomly produced spectacularly delicious meals cooked to perfection.  Dish and wine prices are borderline silly at times, in the single digits.  No, I am not in Mexico;  pretty sure this is Italy.

And what is it with pasta here?  Are we simply incapable of boiling the right amount of water for a proper duration in the States?  Law of large numbers dictates otherwise, so it must be the pasta itself.  We are importing a couple of boxes purchased in Barolo to play with.

[Rovers2000]

7 hours ago, crazeegirl said:

gosh...i so can't wait...thank you for the dreamy recommendations.  wish i could fast forward to end of August.  Did either of you stay overnight?  Would two days be sufficient?

We spent a day there.  Drove from Florence early.  Got to our B&B in Manarollo (stumbling distance from Billy's restaurant) and threw down our bags and changed.  Took the ferry to the end of the trail (where we had the above meal for lunch).  Then started the hike.  By 5 we were at the end of the trails we could access (and candidly tired).  We went to the B&B, showered and napped then had a great dinner.   We got up, had an espresso and pastry and walked to our car to leave.  

All that is to agree with Don that while Cinque Terre is one of the most beautiful places I've ever been - staying much more than a day is probably not worth it.

[DonRocks]

Beware! I just got this message from my (Russian) friend in Italy!

---

Cinque Terre has restricted access these days.  Too many people at once, apparently.  Russian the first to miss the cut.

In the meantime I had to console myself with some superb testaroli al pesto and a bottle of Vermentino in Finalborgo.

[crazeegirl]

On July 9, 2016 at 7:38 PM, DonRocks said:

Beware! I just got this message from my (Russian) friend in Italy!

---

Cinque Terre has restricted access these days.  Too many people at once, apparently.  Russian the first to miss the cut.

In the meantime I had to console myself with some superb testaroli al pesto and a bottle of Vermentino in Finalborgo.

Thanks Don for the warning!  I'm going in September so perhaps the crowd will slow down....  will definitely have to look into the closing before heading out there.  

But much of itinerary is complete, 1 day Pisa, 6 days in Tuscany wine country, 2 days in Florence and 1 day in Cinque Terre.  Can it be September already?  I'll have to dig up some old recommendations for Florence and wine country on this board.  

[DonRocks]

2 hours ago, crazeegirl said:

Thanks Don for the warning!  I'm going in September so perhaps the crowd will slow down....  will definitely have to look into the closing before heading out there.  

But much of itinerary is complete, 1 day Pisa, 6 days in Tuscany wine country, 2 days in Florence and 1 day in Cinque Terre.  Can it be September already?  I'll have to dig up some old recommendations for Florence and wine country on this board.  

BTW, the same group of people have *unanimously* disagreed with the parking warnings in this thread. At least five different people have chimed in, and every single one said they haven't had any problems with getting tickets.

[Simul Parikh]

Thank you! We decided we didn't want to spend that much time in Rome, not Art History people (maybe we should be?) and will use Florence as home base.

This is the basic framework we laid out.

Day 0 - land in Rome at 3p, do as much as we can in the evening sightseeing-wise and have dinner in Rome

Day 1 - early AM train to Florence/all day Florence, probably on our own just messing around (170 miles in 1 hour and 20 minutes!!! For $20!! How do the Italians have trains figured out and we are still spending 3.5 hours to get to NYC from DC and it costs $250!)

Day 2 - Florence all day (we like tours/tour guides - any good operators you know for an architecture/historical tour?)

Day 3 - Rent car or driver - day trip to Arezzo/dinner around there somewhere - back to Florence to sleep

Day 4- Bike tour of wine country/dinner in wine country - back to Florence to sleep

Day 5 - The leftovers - Siena/Pisa/Chianti - pick 2 of 3. Or any other suggestions?

Day 6 - early flight back home

A little cramped, but don't have to move our stuff around that many times. The one thing I keep reading is that Bologna is sort of forgotten, but is AWESOME. Maybe cancel one of the days planned and do a whole day in Bologna? It's only 35 minutes by train. 

Thanks again, and there is a few PMs I will have to send!

[zgast]

51 minutes ago, Simul Parikh said:

A little cramped, but don't have to move our stuff around that many times. The one thing I keep reading is that Bologna is sort of forgotten, but is AWESOME. Maybe cancel one of the days planned and do a whole day in Bologna? It's only 35 minutes by train. 

Thanks again, and there is a few PMs I will have to send!

Italian saying:

If you want art, go to Florence. If you want history, go to Rome.  If you want love, go to Venice.  If you want to eat, go to Bologna.

Bologna is a collection of individual things you won't remember.  But it is quintessentially Italian, which is what most people remember and love.  I'm biased - spent a year at the University of Bologna - but I've spent time almost everywhere you're looking, both as a student and as a non-poor person.

Other than Siena on a peak travel day, I don't think you're going wrong with any of those options, though.

[washingtony]

Just got back from a week in Rome.  (Yes, it was brutally hot, but that gave us an excuse to eat too much gelato, as well as to indulge ourselves with the cheesy ice bar in Monti.)

When visiting Rome, we like to stay in Trastevere.  The neighborhood is so quaintly Italian that someone should lodge a complaint with the Italian-American Anti-Defamation League.  But the real benefit is that it's walkable to so many destinations and has numerous restaurants and piazzas for the passeggiata.

In Trastevere, Dar Poeta is still a great pick for pizza.  Da Enzo is still serving fantastic cacio e pepe (and one night had a really sublime fresh ricotta that was on the daily specials).  For gelato, Fior di Luna is really good, but the neighborhood's best may be at the local outpost of Fatamorgana.  The delightfully generically named Cooking Classes in Rome is also in Trastevere and is well worth a day, so long as you're doing it for the fun and a good meal rather than expecting it to be a semester at Le Cordon Bleu.

Outside of Trastevere, Testaccio is the place to go for food.  Giolitti has the best gelato we found in the city (and we tried at least a dozen different places).  They take their gelato very seriously--if they don't approve of your different combination of flavors, they'll refuse to put them together.  The food market was also a lot of fun, with some great places for street food, produce, and cheese.  And of course the Volpetti shop is worth stopping into, even if you just sit there and conspire how to get the cheeses through customs.

Finally, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Italy's nascent craft beer scene. Open Baladin is a beer bar near Campo di Fiori run by the Baladin brewery (though they also have beers from other breweries).  It's really like something you'd find in Portland or Denver, but with better ciabatta.  There's a nearby bottleshop called Johnny's Off License.  Fantastic selection with great, friendly staff who are happy to help show you the best of Italian craft beer. 

[Simul Parikh]

So, that was a fun trip with lady friend, sister, and sister's future ex-boyfriend (SFEB, ha ha ha). After a day in London, we got to Rome in the mid afternoon. Our hotel was about 1 mile north of the Fountain of Trevi, and about 25 minutes walk from the Vatican. It was the River Palace Hotel, a cute little place. That evening, we had no real plans and had a drink at the hotel bar with some snacks (apertivos!). Then, we went over to Gusto for drinks and more apertivos. I did not realize that this was a thing... Almost all the places we'd go to would give snacks at happy hour. Not just peanuts. Sandwiches, mozzarella and tomatoes, meats, cheeses, veggies, chips, and a variety of different things. It was either buffet style, or they would give you little plates. This was common place in both Rome and Florence, and I was very surprised, because I've always heard about tapas in Spain, but did not know this was a thing. At times, if we hit the apertivos hard, clearly would not have had to eat dinner. But, we were good soldiers, and would never let apertivos get in the way of our dining plans.

Dinner that night was at Velavevodetto Ai Quiriti. Cute little Roman joint, seemingly local folks. We were a little full and sis and SFEB were a bit jet lagged, but made a decent night of it. We got some appetizers, fried artichoke that was fantastic, very good mozzarella, and also prosciutto. The bread was pretty good, but not warm (I don't think it was at any restaurant we went to). For pastas, we got tonnarelli cacio e pepe, rigatoni carbonara, and a pumpkin ravioli. The carbonara was a bit too salty for me, but all were otherwise very good. Was it fresh pasta? Honestly, I have no idea. Tried to ask. One thing surprised me about Italy vs recent trip to Croatia is that the English speaking is typically poor or non-existent, unless the person works in hospitality (hotels, tour guides, museum workers, etc.), whereas in Croatia, almost everybody spoke FLUENT English. We were too full for secondi or dessert (and that's what usually happened, there was no way for us to get antipasti, primi, secondi, and dessert; who the hell eats like that?) 

The coffee... that's my favorite thing about Spain, and I can say the same for Italy. So good, so available, so cheap. Espresso was almost never more than 1E (okay, b/c the conversion is currently 1 USD = 0.94 Euro, I'm not going to convert it and will just stick to $). Cappuccinos were usually 1.20 or 1.30. Americanos 1.30 to 1.50. Caffe correto (espresso with a splash of booze) was 1.20-1.30 and a nice little pick me up, ha. Really high quality, available everywhere. If the sign says BAR they are serving coffee. We had breakfast at the hotel in Rome, and it was actually very good. Did a lot of tourist stuff (Forum, Colosseum, some palace on a hill, Vatican museums). Was rather exhausting. Had pizza near the Vatican at Pizzarium, which is very highly regarded. Eh... it was too fancy and odd toppings and what not. I wouldn't really recommend it with all the other bakeries and pizza by the taglio type places around.

Went for gelato nearby the Vatican at a place called Gelato Millennium and it was off the proverbial heezy. Then espresso at a tiny shop called Coso (I think that's the name, it was across from Millennium but it may not be right), so we could use the bathrooms, too, haha. That was a nice thing in Italy, though, you could use the bathrooms without having to worry about buying anything. But, we always did, b/c a delicious $1 espresso to go to the bathroom is a win - win situation, as far as I'm concerned.

Went back to the hotel, got refreshed and ready for dinner, and had a drink at the lobby bar. They again forced us to eat delicious snacks (including a random tuna mac that I bet reminded my Arkansan lady friend of home!) but we couldn't very much of them, since the two of us had dinner plans. This was the best meal we had. It was at Trattoria dal Cavalier Gino and was a Katie Parla pick. Man oh man. 1L of house red was so good. Antipasti plate was incredible, the meats, the cheeses, the veggies. Lady wanted minestrone, and it's not something I'd ever order, but so good. Saw some people eating next to us got this parmesan shards topped over some vegetable. It was artichoke and we pointed at that, and wowza. We also got some chicory, it's a root/green sort of thing, and the prep was super simple and delicious. We shared a Bucatini Amatriciana and it was the best pasta I've had ever, I think. Perfect. The whole meal was $54. It's cash only, so prepare for that. It just felt like what I thought dining in Italy would feel like.

Had to head to Florence, so we loaded up on breakfast and went to the station. It's only $15-50 to go to Florence on the train (depends on how early you buy the ticket) and it only takes 1 hour and 20 minutes. Easy peasy. We walked to the hotel from the station and dropped the bags off, of course getting coffee next door. The plan was to go to the famous sandwich place, All' Antico Vinaio. It's famous, and touristy, and there are lines, but that's for good reason. Bread is fresh and made throughout the day, it's foccaccia. The meats. Oh the meats. And the creams (they use a lot of cheese cream spreads). We all had different sandwiches that we didn't really know what was in it exactly except the basics. Didn't see translations until it was too late. $5 for sandwich, $2 for wine, $28 total. Absolutely stuffed. I had some cured pork meats, sis had roast pork, someone had porchetta. It was a sandwich bloodbath. It was very heavy, though. Could have split 2 and have been fine. I think you can refill your wine for free.

From here, we went to some place right by the Duomo for Aperol Spritz and etc before the Duomo climb. That was pretty cool, but I can't imagine what it would be like in peak season, was crowded on a gross November day. Views were super cool. You have to get a reservation, so do that. It's like $20. We went to The Corner for a cocktail and they forced apertivos onto us. The chef was just handing us stuff he fried right out of the kitchen. Would have liked to have sampled more, but we had dinner plans at Cibreo.

I was really excited about this place, it's legit Florentine food, but it's aggressively so. I.e. no pasta. Not even one pasta dish! Didn't sit well with my crew. We had a chicken liver appetizer that no one liked except me. Even I don't know how much I love chicken liver, but I kept trying it every chance I could. Had some soups, minestrone and ribollita. Ribollita is delicious and it was Thanksgiving, so the fact that I was having a soup that tasted like liquid stuffing made me happy. We got three other dishes - chicken ricotta meatballs (sort of had an Indian feel to it, like C-T-M mixed with malai kofta), eggplant parmesan (not what I expected, it's not really breaded and the skin is still on), steamed mullet that was pretty good. The desserts were solid, caramel panna cotta and a cheesecake with some sort of marmalade on top. This meal was a bust for us. It was probably too autentico. We just wanted some pasta, man. One of our pricier miles at about $160. Afterwards, had an amaro with the proprietor of our hotel and he recommended a place for lunch the next day.

We went on a guided tour of the city. Was supposed to include tours of the Uffizi and Accademia but in a very European twist, the museum workers were on strike, so no museums for us. It was okay. We aren't museum people. So, after the tour, we just got to wander. We ended up going to a place called La Gratella that was recommended by our host. We enjoyed this a lot. We got a big salad that had cured beef ham (?; that's what they called it) and burrata that was great, antipasti plate of meats and cheese, a bottle of Chianti, and some pastas - ravioli with ricotta in sage butter sauce, gnocchi with gorgonzola sauce and walnuts, and papperdelle with wild boar. Excellent meal, stuffed, $80.

My sister and lady friend had met for the first time on this trip, and they felt bonding would not be complete without some day drinking. The three of us love craft beer, so we made lady friend go with us to Brewdog, a Scottish brewery that has a bunch of brew pubs in Europe. They had stuff that I hadn't had before, and it was a nice respite from the Chianti Classico, Aperol Spritz, and proseccos that were being imbibed. We needed a nap, but sis and SFEB marched on and we met them afterwards to take a walk in the markets and then went into the Mercado Centrale. I loved that place, and sort of wanted to eat something there, but we decided to find a proper restaurant.

We crossed the river to go to 4 Leoni, which is a pretty neat place that gets a mix of tourists and locals. It's semi-formal and really cute. We had a wait, so went to a little bar across the street, who of course had a ton of free food to give us with our drinks, but we had some self control and limited to peanuts and crisps. Got back to the restaurant and we ordered parmesan cheese plate, artichoke with pecorino, linguine with tomato sauce and prawns, and I got the pasta with white truffles and butter/oil sauce (I had just listened to The Planet Money podcast on truffles, and was dying to try them). Everything was really good. We got a liter bottle of wine, tiramisu, and flour less chocolate cake, and cheesecake, and spent just $45 a person.

The next day, we had our tour of Tuscany - San Gimignano, Siena, and then wine tasting. Our guide was Alessandro, coming highly recommended from our very own Astrid. I will say that he was one of the absolute pleasures of this trip. Remarkably knowledgeable, very interesting and funny, and really wants to make sure you have a good time. His classic tour is the one above and it's what most operators offer. The same tour costs you about $60/person if you do a big group with the big companies, and about $400-600 total for smaller groups. His was 360E, and well worth it. His English is excellent, he really wants you to be comfortable and happy, and every bit of the tour is customizable, but his recommendations were all excellent.

The wine tasting and tour at Montagliari was great, and including tastings of olive oil and balsamic and amaro. We ended up eating lunch there, but he didn't push it, nor did the winery folks. We got to meet the owner, who was a hoot and I believe their daughter. Long family history of winemakers and that was neat to hear about. We had antipasti with meats and cheeses and chicken liver crostini (okay, just I had that), peccorino, gorgonzola (that was on point... soft, veiny, funky). Then I had the papperdelle with rabbit ragu which was unbelievable, we shared lamb chops (a little well done for my taste), my sister had a nearly rare sliced steak that was a tad fatty for her, and SFEB had ravioli with cream sauce and walnuts. And another bottle of Chianti (I bought 2 of these to take home, a bottle of amaro for a friend, and lady friend bought the balsamic). Lunch was around $35/person and very much enjoyed. We went to another winery for a tasting, but I have no idea what the name is. The girl serving was South African and hilarious. 

We got back and sister, being a Buckeye grad, wanted to watch The Game. I'm not a big Sports Ball fan, but I went to another Big Ten school and have a bunch of friends who went to UMich, so we went to watch the game at an Irish pub, which I believe is called "Irish Pub". My sister was losing her mind, but OSU won at the end. It was pretty late, and we were hungry, but Italian'd out, so we went to this Sichuan place (no joke!) that we passed a bunch of times (that was 1 of 3 Sichuan places that I saw in the area). Not getting into details, because who wants to hear about that type of food in Florence, but if you need a break from pasta, this place was not bad. It's across from Brewdog, don't remember the name.

The next day, SFEB left and it was just us 3. Just kidding about him, he's actually going to make a great first husband for my sister some day  We had pizza at Mercato Centrale for a brunch/lunch and then headed back to do some last minute sight seeing in Rome (Fountain, Spanish Steps) and then headed to our hotel near the airport. We ate a shopping mall there at an American Style Western Restaurant (I don't know .. we were just tired) and that was that. 

Some thoughts (comparing to only recent European trips - Spain and Croatia)

- You eat and drink very inexpensively in Italy compared to Spain, with some really great meals at surprising price points... some times it seemed closer to prices in Croatia, which is a much poorer country.

- The coffee and gelato at even the most random places can be very, very good.

- Unless you are trying to eat at Michelin starred restaurants, too much pre-planning hurts isn't really necessary. Romans and Florentinos LOVE food, and your concierge, your bellhop, your bartender, your cabbie, your tour guide - they all know good restaurants and it isn't like a "kickback" sort of thing - they eat out more than the Spanish or Croatians, and will guide you well. Three of the restaurants that we liked a lot were based on Italian people recommending to us. 

- Shocking how few people speak English. Not a knock. Just unexpected.

- Taxi drivers and Uber drivers are both kind of terrible. Definitely get the run around. Try to walk as much as you can. I think we hit like 40 miles this week.

- Conversely, the other members of the hospitality world - bartenders, waiters, tour guides, and just average Italians are helpful, friendly, and genuinely not pissed off at having a zillion tourists around at all given times. 

- If you aren't interested in heavy dinners, apertivos will be plenty. And drinks are not expensive, so it's a great deal!

- Italian men and women dress quite well. There aren't really dress codes, but I was in my usually hoodie/jeans/sneakers/hat uniform that I wear when traveling in cooler weather. I wouldn't do that again in Italy. I looked like a slob. 

- The idea of getting a place near the airport the night before makes sense, but we got an AirBnb, not a true airport hotel, and that hurt us. 1) You don't get the airport fare to get dropped off there, and even though only a few miles from airport, it's $40 more in a cab (!!!), about $90. So, we rolled the dice and got an Uber Black (they don't have X), and it was $50 (Well, originally $70, but dude obviously taking us for a ride and the moment I put '"wrong route" Uber spit out a $20 refund, that quick) 2) The cab in the morning is about $25 to go about 4 miles 3) There is nothing to do there, so eat in Rome first if you decide to go this route. Or, have terrible Tex Mex at the mall, as we did.  

- Get Alessandro as your guide in Tuscany!! And if you're an American gal looking for a handsome, knowledgeable, food/wine loving Italian man, you're in luck - he loves American gals!

- I'm so fat now. My pants barely fit. 

[Pool Boy]

On 11/28/2016 at 6:43 PM, Simul Parikh said:

 

We crossed the river to go to 4 Leoni, which is a pretty neat place that gets a mix of tourists and locals. It's semi-formal and really cute. We had a wait, so went to a little bar across the street, who of course had a ton of free food to give us with our drinks, but we had some self control and limited to peanuts and crisps. Got back to the restaurant and we ordered parmesan cheese plate, artichoke with pecorino, linguine with tomato sauce and prawns, and I got the pasta with white truffles and butter/oil sauce (I had just listened to The Planet Money podcast on truffles, and was dying to try them). Everything was really good. We got a liter bottle of wine, tiramisu, and flour less chocolate cake, and cheesecake, and spent just $45 a person.

 

I really like that place. We last hit it in 2008. Good stuff.

[Mark Dedrick]

We're going to be in Rome, Perugia and Santo Stefano di Sessanio in October for a wedding (which is in Santo Stafano di Sessanio). Anyone have any good recommendations, either for food or for stuff to do/see? I've never been to Italy before, and am very much looking forward to this trip. 

[Pool Boy]

On 8/28/2017 at 7:03 PM, Mark Dedrick said:

We're going to be in Rome, Perugia and Santo Stefano di Sessanio in October for a wedding (which is in Santo Stafano di Sessanio). Anyone have any good recommendations, either for food or for stuff to do/see? I've never been to Italy before, and am very much looking forward to this trip. 

There is so much to see and do there. Here's a link for a bazillion pictures in Roma. We enjoyed Enoteca Capranica, especially the Enoteca Cavour 313 (so good and local!),  La Tartaruga Cantina, Dar Poeta, and Checcino dal 1887 (great!). And, as good as the food is in Roma, it doesn't hold a candle to what we have had in other parts of Italy, especially in Emiglia Romana. Have a great time!

[Simul Parikh]

On 8/28/2017 at 7:03 PM, Mark Dedrick said:

We're going to be in Rome, Perugia and Santo Stefano di Sessanio in October for a wedding (which is in Santo Stafano di Sessanio). Anyone have any good recommendations, either for food or for stuff to do/see? I've never been to Italy before, and am very much looking forward to this trip. 

I'm sure it's somewhere up thread, but Katie Parla is a great resource for Rome.

[dcs]

Bros., Lecce: We Eat at The Worst Michelin Starred Restaurant, Ever, by Geraldine DeRuiter, December 8, 2021, on everywhereist.com.

Chef's response at the end of the following article:

27 courses, very little edible: Review of Michelin-starred restaurant goes viral, by Randee Dawn, December 9, 2021, on today.com.

[zgast]

21 hours ago, dcs said:

Bros., Lecce: We Eat at The Worst Michelin Starred Restaurant, Ever, by Geraldine DeRuiter, December 8, 2021, on everywhereist.com.

Chef's response at the end of the following article:

27 courses, very little edible: Review of Michelin-starred restaurant goes viral, by Randee Dawn, December 9, 2021, on today.com.

I'm torn between wanting to try it to see if it can possibly be THAT bad and re-reading the chef's response, which never once defends the food as being good.  Perhaps on his advice, I should order 45 McDonald's hamburgers or 56 pizza slices to have any number of good meals rather than licking foam out of a reproduction of his (or her - really need to clarify which chef made the reproduction) mouth. 

[zgast]

On 12/12/2021 at 10:43 AM, zgast said:

I'm torn between wanting to try it to see if it can possibly be THAT bad and re-reading the chef's response, which never once defends the food as being good.  Perhaps on his advice, I should order 45 McDonald's hamburgers or 56 pizza slices to have any number of good meals rather than licking foam out of a reproduction of his (or her - really need to clarify which chef made the reproduction) mouth. 

Important clarification from the Washington Post's reporting: At the end of his written response to “Today,” Pellegrino addressed “Limoniamo,” the plaster mold that, during DeRuiter’s meal, held the citrus foam. Buyers can purchase the mold, which comes in the shape of either Pellegrino’s mouth or the mouth of fellow chef Isabella Potì, for 58 euros. (sold out)

[Ericandblueboy]

I was supposed to fly to Milan next Tuesday for a few days in Turin, Milan and Venice.  Today I was supposed to have my solar panels installed.  They came right on time but apparently the townhouse is higher than expected (they sent a site assessor months ago).  So the ladders weren't high/secure enough.  If the solar panels aren't installed this year, I don't get the tax credits until 2023.  So I canceled my trip to Italy to have my solar panels installed next week.  This is the 2nd trip this year I had to cancel (first was wiped of by the hurricane that knocked out New Orleans).