Dining in Tysons Corner

[Joe H]

I think this is one of the best threads that I have read on this board.  Absolute pleasure to read everyone's thoughts.

I was at Tysons today and drove by the Ritz Carlton towards 123.  To the left of me was the crane for Lerner's new tower being erected and three or four people walking on its skeletal steel framework a couple of hundred feet above the ground.  I pulled over on the side of the road and watched them for a while.  Perhaps as breathtakingly dangerous of a job as I have ever seen.

[DaveO]

I was speaking to a friend in the real estate business far more knowledgeable than me and current.  He suggested a 30 year time frame for all that development.  That is probably pretty reasonable.  It takes a long time for enough people to want to move to Tysons to live and for businesses to want to relocate and take advantage of metro.  30 years.  Probably reasonable.  Consider the time it has taken Arlington to build out from when Metro hit the Rosslyn to Ballston corridor in the late 1970's.  At that starting time the Rosslyn to Ballston corridor was pretty much Rosslyn with high rises and the Ballston Mall at the other end with little high rise in between and many choices for Vietnamese food in Clarendon.

Now there is one old Vietnamese restaurant in Clarendon, tons of high rises, expensive real estate everywhere....and as all this has occurred over 30 years, as Joe pointed out there is a big big completely finished empty office building in Rosslyn, and another one around the corner that won't start construction because the current office market is week.

Meanwhile most of the wonderful older Vietnamese restaurants in Clarendon have departed the area and a wide variety of wonderful newer choices have arrived.  It takes a long time, for all this to occur though.

[kirite]

In 2006 Zachary Schrag, an urban history professor at George Mason, published The Great Society Subway (Johns Hopkins University Press) which is a fairly detailed history of Metro. In it he explains how decisions made by the Fairfax County BOS in the early 1970s directly led to the deformation of Tyson's Corner into the car-centric concrete jungle we've all come to love. Arlington planners were much savvier and envisioned a Rosslyn to Ballston corridor built around Metro stations.

[DonRocks]

Does anyone know when they put the gate up in the apartment complex on Holly Ridge Drive? For 15 years, this was my primary cut-thru from Magarity Road to Old Meadow Road; this evening, I tried to drive through there, and it's now blocked off for residents only. I'm pretty sure the last time I took this route was sometime in 2009, so it could have been anytime since then, but I was shocked to see it, and it's absolutely a result of the development in Tysons Corner (I don't to object to it - it's private property - but it surprised me, and I had to turn around). For decades, a series of nasty speed bumps was enough to do the trick; apparently not anymore.

[DaveO]

Any way to avoid tysons traffic is a good way. Perhaps the horrible traffic is a major detriment to better restaurants. How can one rely on making reservations with that traffic?

[JBag57]

Does anyone know when they put the gate up in the apartment complex on Holly Ridge Drive? For 15 years, this was my primary cut-thru from Magarity Road to Old Meadow Road; this evening, I tried to drive through there, and it's now blocked off for residents only. I'm pretty sure the last time I took this route was sometime in 2009, so it could have been anytime since then, but I was shocked to see it, and it's absolutely a result of the development in Tysons Corner (I don't to object to it - it's private property - but it surprised me, and I had to turn around). For decades, a series of nasty speed bumps was enough to do the trick; apparently not anymore.

I'm pretty sure I cut through there as recently as 2011, but my calendar is not as reliable as in the days of old.  I have heard from the caretakers of Westgate Park, where the Little League fields are, that there is going to be some realignment of roads in that area to adjust for Metro traffic. (please don't press me for details at this late hour).

[Joe H]

My wife and I were looking through our high school yearbooks tonight and we thought about what has happened in Arlington and Silver Spring.  She graduated from Wakefield in 1964 (2,200+ students in three grades) and I graduated from Blair in 1964 (2,500+ students in three grades).  I note this because we both remember Rosslyn with pawn shops, Parkington and Clarendon which had a large Hecht's and downtown Silver Spring which was the second largest city in Maryland and had three major department stores (Hecht's, Sears ((at 2nd and Colesville)) and Penny's.  Tyson's was a crossroads and Wheaton, until Wheaton Plaza opened, wasn't much more.  Still, both Arlington and Silver Spring had very real downtowns.  I remember meeting a girl (not my wife) in the late '60's who lived in Reston and thought she might as well have lived in West Virginia.  Reston just seemed that far away.

We both have our fifty year high school reunions this year.  Her Arlington high school will have its reunion in Reston (!) and my Silver Spring high school hasn't announced where yet although the 25th was in Ocean City.

As for traffic in Tysons I wonder where all of the new residents' kids will go to school given the planned growth.  There is nowhere to build a new school for any age.  In Reston the three schools behind our house (South Lakes HS, Langston Hughes MS and Terraset ES) have a combined 49 classrooms in trailers because of growth.  For us the upcoming construction dust is the issue of the day with traffic to follow.  And, I should note there will be more trailers to follow.  The other hs that services Reston is Herndon and a $90 million dollar rebuild is planned for that in several years.

Perhaps the model is suburban Dallas where two hs in Plano and one in North Dallas each have over 5,000 students.

I wish Fairfax County would think about this.  On the one hand it is truly exciting to watch so much development going up.  On the other hand I also know that there will be a lot of people-and businesses-who won't move into the County knowing that their child might spend the next three or four years in a trailer.  In the mid '60's Blair and Wakefield (and Don went to Northwood that had over 2,000 students also) were large high schools with the impact of baby boomers and explosive suburban growth.

I love Reston, I love Bethesda, I love both Silver Spring and Arlington today and what they have evolved into.  I'm not so sure about Tyson's which is trying to rebuild itself but will probably end up as islands of development for years to come.  And where the kids will go to school for the 50,000 more that will move there is an interesting question in and of itself.

Regardless, I am venting off topic (!!!) and the good news is that sooner or later Tyson's should get a restaurant that is not a steak house.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the Metro opens.

[MsDiPesto]

Does anyone know when they put the gate up in the apartment complex on Holly Ridge Drive? For 15 years, this was my primary cut-thru from Magarity Road to Old Meadow Road; this evening, I tried to drive through there, and it's now blocked off for residents only. I'm pretty sure the last time I took this route was sometime in 2009, so it could have been anytime since then, but I was shocked to see it, and it's absolutely a result of the development in Tysons Corner (I don't to object to it - it's private property - but it surprised me, and I had to turn around). For decades, a series of nasty speed bumps was enough to do the trick; apparently not anymore.

I get my hair done at a salon in a blue-hair condo building on Old Meadow, and it was years before I realized that I was seeing the back of the complex you reference that fronts on Magarity Rd. I think the gate's been in for at least a year now.

[DaveO]

My wife and I were looking through our high school yearbooks tonight and we thought about what has happened in Arlington and Silver Spring.  She graduated from Wakefield in 1964 (2,200+ students in three grades) and I graduated from Blair in 1964 (2,500+ students in three grades).  I note this because we both remember Rosslyn with pawn shops, Parkington and Clarendon which had a large Hecht's and downtown Silver Spring which was the second largest city in Maryland and had three major department stores (Hecht's, Sears ((at 2nd and Colesville)) and Penny's.  Tyson's was a crossroads and Wheaton, until Wheaton Plaza opened, wasn't much more.  Still, both Arlington and Silver Spring had very real downtowns.  I remember meeting a girl (not my wife) in the late '60's who lived in Reston and thought she might as well have lived in West Virginia.  Reston just seemed that far away.

We both have our fifty year high school reunions this year.  Her Arlington high school will have its reunion in Reston (!) and my Silver Spring high school hasn't announced where yet although the 25th was in Ocean City.

As for traffic in Tysons I wonder where all of the new residents' kids will go to school given the planned growth.  There is nowhere to build a new school for any age.  In Reston the three schools behind our house (South Lakes HS, Langston Hughes MS and Terraset ES) have a combined 49 classrooms in trailers because of growth.  For us the upcoming construction dust is the issue of the day with traffic to follow.  And, I should note there will be more trailers to follow.  The other hs that services Reston is Herndon and a $90 million dollar rebuild is planned for that in several years.

Perhaps the model is suburban Dallas where two hs in Plano and one in North Dallas each have over 5,000 students.

I wish Fairfax County would think about this.  On the one hand it is truly exciting to watch so much development going up.  On the other hand I also know that there will be a lot of people-and businesses-who won't move into the County knowing that their child might spend the next three or four years in a trailer.  In the mid '60's Blair and Wakefield (and Don went to Northwood that had over 2,000 students also) were large high schools with the impact of baby boomers and explosive suburban growth.

I love Reston, I love Bethesda, I love both Silver Spring and Arlington today and what they have evolved into.  I'm not so sure about Tyson's which is trying to rebuild itself but will probably end up as islands of development for years to come.  And where the kids will go to school for the 50,000 more that will move there is an interesting question in and of itself.

Regardless, I am venting off topic (!!!) and the good news is that sooner or later Tyson's should get a restaurant that is not a steak house.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the Metro opens.

Joe:  I chatted with a friend who is an investor in one of those sites in Tysons that has was eligible and has received approval for upgraded zoning  (has received = they paid a lot of money, submitted a lot of paper work and was approved).  The site is approved for "a ton" of extra development over what sits on the property today.  Theoretically its worth a significantly more.  In actuality that value won't hit until the market evolves and the demand begins to migrate to their location.  Then it will have a ton more value.  It could occur in less than a decade, a decade or 20 or more years.  It will take a long time for all that planned development to occur.  That time frame is similar to what has occurred in Arlington, Tysons, Reston, Bethesda, etc.  It can take a long time.

(lord--I was involved in trying to do a cool restaurant deal in Reston in the early 80's that never occurred...so long before the millions of feet that sprung up in that area)

So many events and reactions occur as a result of all these changes.  Your descriptions of an enormous number of classrooms in trailers is a prime example of the less desirable after effects.

It was interesting to read about Silver Spring from the late 1960's.  2nd biggest city in Md.  I didn't know that.  Its before I moved to this area.  Silver Spring got development but has lagged behind so many other areas.  Its rents still lag more fashionable locations such as Bethesda, Arlington, Tysons, and Reston.   Yet, it can be a great location for strong restaurants.  It has huge population demographics that are proximate to Silver Spring, the restaurant competition isn't as fierce as some other areas, and the rents are favorable.  and getting back to demographics....it has lots and lots and lots of population density nearby...of many income levels.

Tysons, though.  Ughhhhhhhhhh.  The danged traffic.  Its a pain to get there.  Its a pain to get through there.  It can be miserable to be in one end of Tysons and go to the other end.  If Fairfax can figure out how to fix the traffic congestion problem it would be a great place for restaurants.

[DaveO]

As an area develops and if sees continued demand big high rise buildings will continue to go up.  This report of a possible new development in Ballston reflects the efforts to sell a car dealership site.    That site has been selling cars for decades and high rise development started in Ballston in the early 1980's....so the demand to build on this site has been around for a long time...but the economics and timing probably weren't there.   I guess the landholders feel its there now.

I suspect the same process will occur in Tysons.  Buildings will go up on land that is less well developed or less economically productive.  I assume all the auto dealerships in Tysons are very productive...but at some point big high rises might create more value.

I suppose down the line on land where you can now evaluate and purchase cars, at some point in the future will be land where you can live, work, stay in a hotel, or dine in a restaurant.......if you can get there without sitting in traffic for a few hours  

[wristband]

Don - gate(s) were activated last month.  They were installed in the fall but became functional only recently due to the imminent arrival of Metro (the complex ownership wants to prevent free parking for commuters).  I sadly know this as I work out at Regency Sport & Health.

For years, I would putter up Old Meadow to Magarity out to Route 7 and points eastward-easy breezy.  No longer. Now, its over to 123, down Intl Drive and endure the long lights.

[BklynBoy]

I am one of the pessimists when it comes to Tysons. I think the failure to tunnel beneath Tysons combined with the width of Leesburg Pike and Rt123 will prevent Tysons from evolving into a Ballston/Clarendon type location. One of the things that makes both of those neighborhoods work is the outdoor seating that integrates eating/drinking spots with pedestrian traffic. That is not going to work in Tysons.  Being a native New Yorker raised a couple of blocks from the "El", I reflect on how different the real estate values and esthetics are on streets with a subway as opposed to the same streets where the subway comes out of the ground and continues as an elevated line.

The other aspect of the plan that concerns me is that none of new stations have any parking and at the same time there is still not much of a mass transit plan to enable people like me who live within a 2 mile radius of one of the stations to get there easily.

[DonRocks]

Don - gate(s) were activated last month. They were installed in the fall but became functional only recently due to the imminent arrival of Metro (the complex ownership wants to prevent free parking for commuters). I sadly know this as I work out at Regency Sport & Health.

For years, I would putter up Old Meadow to Magarity out to Route 7 and points eastward-easy breezy. No longer. Now, its over to 123, down Intl Drive and endure the long lights.

Tell Tony Allen I said hello. Sharon, too.

[DonRocks]

My optometrist is right at the Greensboro Metro stop, and has been working there long before construction began on the Metro line. I asked him how all this affected business, and he said that during construction, places there got *killed* (fortunately for him, his business doesn't depend as much on walk-in traffic as some others do). Now that the Greensboro station has opened, he said things have improved to the point where they were before any of this started. 

[hopsing]

The TJ Maxx strip mall of the Greensboro stop is where China Wok is.  Try their Peking Duck.

[thistle]

Where would you have lunch in this area?-only constraint is trying to keep it at or under a hour.  I'd love to hear of someplace amazing, but will settle for solid.

[Kibbee Nayee]

15 hours ago, thistle said:

Where would you have lunch in this area?-only constraint is trying to keep it at or under a hour.  I'd love to hear of someplace amazing, but will settle for solid.

The Galleria Mall restaurants are geared to the one-hour lunch because of the large office worker population in the area. I prefer Lebanese Taverna, but my friends and colleagues also like Wildfire, Maggiano's, and Legal Sea Foods.

[DonRocks]

16 hours ago, thistle said:

Where would you have lunch in this area?-only constraint is trying to keep it at or under a hour.  I'd love to hear of someplace amazing, but will settle for solid.

If you enjoy upscale Korean, Woo Lae Oak might work (they even serve breakfast).

[Kibbee Nayee]

2 hours ago, DonRocks said:

If you enjoy upscale Korean, Woo Lae Oak might work (they even serve breakfast).

I don't like the parking situation at Woo Lae Oak -- could have an impact on the 1-hour time limit. But yes, that's good food....

[Ericandblueboy]

21 hours ago, thistle said:

Where would you have lunch in this area?-only constraint is trying to keep it at or under a hour.  I'd love to hear of someplace amazing, but will settle for solid.

China Wok makes good peking duck.  Shamshiry is still good for Persian food.  Pho Deluxe is decent.  Asian Origin is upscaled Hong Kong Palace (same owner, many same dishes).  Kizuna's ramen probably won't kill you.

[DonRocks]

3 hours ago, Kibbee Nayee said:

I don't like the parking situation at Woo Lae Oak -- could have an impact on the 1-hour time limit. But yes, that's good food....

There's an adjacent parking garage, and I think the last time I went there, parking was free - I recall walking into a side door.

[thistle]

Thanks for the suggestions, Shamsiry or Lebanese Taverna sounds the best (do they do a good lunch?), but when most of the other options are 'won't kill you', I'd probably opt for fast casual, is there a Cava in the vicinity?

[DonRocks]

32 minutes ago, thistle said:

Thanks for the suggestions, Shamsiry or Lebanese Taverna sounds the best (do they do a good lunch?), but when most of the other options are 'won't kill you', I'd probably opt for fast casual, is there a Cava in the vicinity?

There's one in the original mall - in the newer section. Here's a guide for you.

Also, here's the thread about Dining in Tysons Corner Malls.

Don't forget, Ten Penh is in Tysons Corner now, and we could use some reviews of it.  Remember that its original chef, Cliff Wharton, is at least 50% Filipino, and Pan-Asian cooking seemed to be in his blood; Miles Vaden is a fine chef, but it probably isn't second nature to him (FWIW).

[Ferris Bueller]

Don't forget Greek (great lunch, if you do not have a reservation eat in the bar - Nostos

Thai - Busara - decent, been there a long time and does solid business.

Pizza - Crust

Harth (McLean Hilton) - yea, I know a hotel restaurant, but it is locally-sourced, bee-hive on the roof kind of place.  You can get in/out in 60 minutes.

Lost Dog - says McLean, but it is 1/2 mile from Tysons just off Rt 123. Not as good as the original Arlington location, but decent subs and individual, unique pizzas.

Alborz - another kabob place, I heard is very good, however I have not been here yet - but it is across the alley from Crust pizza noted above.

Chef Geoff's - menu is always interesting, and changes seasonally.

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Clarity (dcs)