Di Fara Pizza, Pizzaiolo Domenico DeMarco on Avenue J and E. 15th Street in Midwood

[DonRocks]

"Not A Love Letter: Di Fara Is Home To New York City's Junkiest Pizza Slice" by Katie Parla on foodrepublic.com

[Joe H]

"I grew up in central New Jersey eating greasy pizza made by Italians who were either too lazy to source decent cheese, too greedy to splurge on the good stuff, or too confident their clients couldn't tell the difference. I know oily industrial cheese and second press olive oil when I taste it and I am neither willing nor able to overlook Di Fara's liberal use of both. The ingredients, and consequently, the pizza, at the uber-famous Di Fara in the Midwood section of Brooklyn suck. I explain why on Food Republic."

In her article she states:  "When the pizzeria was first lauded by Eric Asimov in the New York Times back in 2001, the pizzeria was pulled out of relative obscurity and more positive reviews rolled in."

Above is how she introduced her slam of Di Fara on the food blog, Food Republic.  I have been to Di Fara.  Before the New York Times wrote about it.  When Chowhound and Jim Leff first raved about it.  In fact it is simply wrong to claim that the New York Times made this place famous.  They were at least three years after the fact, long after the Village Voice put Di Fara on its cover.

"In his 1998 book The Eclectic Gourmet Guide to Greater New York City, Jim Leff called the sauce used by the restaurant:  a restrained, low profile masterpiece of optimal acidity and spicing (bolstered by a goodly shake of black pepper). Like everything here it's delicious in a magically old-fashioned way.^[8] Fame for Di Fara came in 1999 when The Village Voice, a popular New York City publication, put him on its cover and proclaimed it as one of the "Best Italian restaurants".^[4] From that point and going forward, Di Fara has been regarded as a top pizzeria by many established publications, including the Daily News.^[4][21] Di Fara has received many awards, and has been labeled the "Best... pizza in New York" several times by many publications, including New York and the online publication Serious Eats....Chef Anthony Bourdain called the restaurant's pizza: "the best of the best." In 2011, Zagats gave the restaurant the top pizza restaurant food rating in New York City, and in 2013, Frommer'scalled its pizza "the Best Hand-Made Pizza in New York City."

Now, to my point:  I drove from D. C. to Di Fara to eat it.  Stood in line for an hour after the four hour drive and it was worth it.  This was 14 years ago. I would and will do it again.  He is 69 and he's not going to be around forever. No, it is not the best pizza I have ever had; certainly not the best crust (Pizzaria Mozza in L. A.).  But it IS the best New York pizza I have ever had.  It is also rich in character and tradition. I am seriously suggesting that her comment that it "sucked" puts everything in perspective.

I also wonder what she might say about New Jersey pizza where she grew up.

[Steve R.]

It's an interesting piece.  Katie Parla (whom I've met) is a very respected blogger based in Rome.  And she gets around -- as a matter of fact, she did an event at Paulie Gee's in Williamsburg, Brooklyn with a great pizza maker from Rome this past October or so.  She's serious about the sourcing of ingredients &, apparently, did not like DiFara's one bit.  Oh well.  However, don't, for a minute, think that she doesn't know about Leff.  She's been a poster on CH for years.  I'm not sure how she wound up not mentioning him in her piece.  And, Elizabeth Minchilli also had a blog piece on DiFara's recently (Eliz. is another prominent blogger (& CH contributer) based in Rome who was in NYC this past Xmas).  It seems that she and Katie don't agree"¦ not surprising, since their Rome tastes diverge as well.   http://www.elizabeth...oklyn-new-york/   For what it's worth, both of them (& Maureen Fant) have helped me & Ginny in our Italy trips but, as with this, I find that my tastes are more similar to Elizabeth's than Katie's.

As for DiFara's, I'm not at all objective.  I grew up 3-4 blocks from it and have been going there since I was 14 or so (I'm 61 now"¦ do the math).  With or without the cult following & all the media attention, I'd be eating pizza there anyway and loving it.  True story: my wife bought me Leff's "The Eclectic Gourmet Guide"¦" in '98 saying, "take a look at this"¦ your old pizza place is famous".  That's how I wound up on CH 15 years ago.

[Waitman]

I have never been to DiFara's and have no dog in this fight, but I will suggest that pizza is one of those potentially alchemical creations that does indeed sometimes turn base metals into gold.  There are a number of memorable pizza places that use ingredients that would likely be sniffed at by Ms. Perla to craft extraordinary pies, just as there are places that trumpet their ingredients (and technique) to produce pies that one barely remembers at all.

On a related subject -- is there point at which highbrow criticism of lowbrow food becomes so intellectual that it's frankly stupid: pizza, hamburgers, pork sandwiches, etc.?  Sure, there are good versions and bad versions, and we all love a good barroom brawl (metaphorically speaking) about who has the best cheesesteak, but really, are we overthinking?

Related to the related subject -- are we overthinking in order to rationalize our affection for  the sort of proletariate and often unhealthy fare that our lizard brains love but our more evolved selves feel guilty about putting into our bodies?  If macaroni and cheese can inspire a 1500 word critique, surely it's sufficiently elevated for sophistos like ourselves to eat, despite being a rudimentary pile of refined starch, fat and salt.

[Steve R.]

I have never been to DiFara's and have no dog in this fight, but I will suggest that pizza is one of those potentially alchemical creations that does indeed sometimes turn base metals into gold.  There are a number of memorable pizza places that use ingredients that would likely be sniffed at by Ms. Perla to craft extraordinary pies, just as there are places that trumpet their ingredients (and technique) to produce pies that one barely remembers at all.

On a related subject -- is there point at which highbrow criticism of lowbrow food becomes so intellectual that it's frankly stupid: pizza, hamburgers, pork sandwiches, etc.?  Sure, there are good versions and bad versions, and we all love a good barroom brawl (metaphorically speaking) about who has the best cheesesteak, but really, are we overthinking?

Related to the related subject -- are we overthinking in order to rationalize our affection for  the sort of proletariate and often unhealthy fare that our lizard brains love but our more evolved selves feel guilty about putting into our bodies?  If macaroni and cheese can inspire a 1500 word critique, surely it's sufficiently elevated for sophistos like ourselves to eat, despite being a rudimentary pile of refined starch, fat and salt.

Your post raises (at least to me) points that I think are very relevant to our new "foodie" culture (which has its moments but, in general, curls the remaining hairs on my basically bald head).  Dividing your note into its 3 parts, my comments:

-Absolutely.  If the resulting product is not tasty to me, I don't care how many top shelf ingredients have been put into its creation.  Or how trained the chef is.  However, as I get older, I have to care how many "really bad for me" things go into foods that I do love to eat.  With DiFara's, the ingredients that bothered Katie do not, in my opinion, create a bigger danger to my health & I do believe the pizza there tastes better than most.  Maybe my opinion on the taste of the pizza is colored by my history with the place; maybe hers is colored by what she saw he was using & how she feels about ingredients.  Whatever"¦ one less person on line.

-I'd more easily agree with you on this if there weren't so many critics who draw the line way further over from hot dogs, burgers and pizza.  I've seen perfectly serious people, with excellent knowledge of the food industry, explain how ridiculous it is to critique entire ethnic cuisines because they were identified (by them) as "lowbrow".  Some would even prefer to restrict "highbrow" criticism to preparations using only French technique.  Slippery slope -- I'm more forgiving of the debates over "best burger", lest they come for my favorite Chinese foods next.

-Yes.  But we're not only rationalizing in order to eat our mac 'n cheese, but our refined richly sauced French food as well.  Surely it can't be bad for you if each ingredient is carefully selected and prepared using precise technique.

[ol_ironstomach]

I haven't returned to DiFara since my previous post about the experience...there have been too many other places that I'd rather try, that make even better pizza.

But you don't go to DiFara expecting that he's considered every possible improvement; every optimal item, source, and proportion.  No, you go to DiFara because a man makes you a pizza the way he's always made a pizza.  It's haphazard and authentic, warts and all, like an old muscle car.  Maybe even a bit horrifying, like that car's lead-filled bodyshell and period safety equipment.  And like that golden age Detroit iron, it won't be around forever, so you've got to get it while the halcyon days are still on us.

[Steve R.]

I haven't returned to DiFara since my previous post about the experience...there have been too many other places that I'd rather try, that make even better pizza.

But you don't go to DiFara expecting that he's considered every possible improvement; every optimal item, source, and proportion.  No, you go to DiFara because a man makes you a pizza the way he's always made a pizza.  It's haphazard and authentic, warts and all, like an old muscle car.  Maybe even a bit horrifying, like that car's lead-filled bodyshell and period safety equipment.  And like that golden age Detroit iron, it won't be around forever, so you've got to get it while the halcyon days are still on us.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head.  However, what I do find funny (kinda) is that, for an old skool neighborhood NYC "street slice" pizza place, Dom actually uses better ingredients than just about any other place.   Katie, who is very much concerned with sourcing top ingredients and using them to full advantage, didn't see DiFara as just a neighborhood place, using an old gas pizza oven, but judged him compared to the other top shelf places & practices now in existence.  People forget that much of Dom's notoriety began in the late '90s, before a million "artisanal" pizza places opened in NYC.  Although it was always my favorite "street pizza" (& I still love eating it), even I admit that I can now (& do) get many other pizzas in NYC that taste as good (maybe even better, depending on my mood) from places that have brick ovens, wood or coal fired ovens, ovens manufactured by hand in Italy and with pizzaolas recently immigrated from various areas in Italy or who have studied pizza making.  In my own neighborhood, within a 10 minute walk from home, there are 8 well known places with different styles, almost all good (Luzzo's, Table 87, Fascati, Sottocasa, Lucali, Krescendo, Juliana's, & even Grimaldi's) to choose from & another 15 or so unknown local places to explore.  It's not that Katie was incorrect about things; after all, with DiFara's prices and accepted notoriety he's put himself into play vs. other top places & the quality of his ingredients should certainly be evaluated.  However, like with most street foods, I would think the essence of the question should have been more "how did it taste"? than "is it really high end"?  After all, a classic '60s car didn't have automatic windows, a GPS device, button ignition or good gas mileage, but I sure don't mind riding around in one when I get a chance.

[Josh]

A 77 year old man slinging the same pies he has for decades in the same beat up joint is the NYC I loved when i was there.  There are some great pies in various other styles to be had in the city, but for a straight up NY slice, Dom has my heart.

[DonRocks]

I've been reading this thread with bemusement (that's not a derogatory term, btw). The picture in that article really doesn't look very good at all (the middle of the pizza looks ok); yet, people who know what they're doing are strongly in support of this pie.

Welp, looks like there's only one way to resolve this discrepancy.

To fold, or not to fold, that is the question -

[Steve R.]

I've been reading this thread with bemusement (that's not a derogatory term, btw). The picture in that article really doesn't look very good at all (the middle of the pizza looks ok); yet, people who know what they're doing are strongly in support of this pie.

Welp, looks like there's only one way to resolve this discrepancy.

To fold, or not to fold, that is the question -

It's hard not to be bemused, given the excessive cult-like following that Dom got (& still gets). I've stood there waiting for pizza with other long timers (including Jimmy Smits), chuckling about the situation. I think that even Dom gets a few laughs about the strong opinions he elicits.

Here's a little more fuel:

 

(there are pages of DiFara videos on youtube"¦ i like this one). And, by the way, if you're coming, let me know. Nothing like tennis and a pizza.

[Jonathan]

Di Fara is a neighborhood slice joint in a part of the country where there are lots of neighborhoods with lots of slice joints. From my perspective (as a chef, a pizza fanatic, and a pizza cook who has lived and worked in the great county of Kings and called Brooklyn home), Di Fara is just not that good. It's fine. And I'd be happy if it was my neighborhood slice joint. But I would never, ever conceive of travelling hours, or even across Brooklyn for his pizza. The lines are staggering, the product is middling, and he arbitrarily skips over people causing you to sometimes wait an hour or more even after you have ordered your pie.

Johns, Bleecker St., Lombardi's (on a good day) are just some of the many pizza places that are far better than Di Fara.

[Steve R.]

But Jonathan, DiFara was #9 and Franny's only #11 in the Eater "38 Essential Pizzerias Across America" list. 

Seriously though, John's on Bleecker?  Not Keste, right across the street?

[Jonathan]

I was referring to non-Neopolitan pizza joints.

[Steve R.]

Not sure what you mean.  DiFara, like most "neighborhood slice joints" (your phrase), uses a gas oven & sells over the counter pizza, by the slice or pie.  Johns on Bleecker, Lombardi's, etc use coal ovens & are sit down places that serve by the pie only, made to order.  Granted, they are not the wood fired Neopolitan style that Keste, etc are, but comparing DiFara to Johns or Lombardi's isn't any closer (or farther away) than comparing Johns to Keste. 

[Jonathan]

I said John's and Bleecker St., not John's of Bleecker Street. And while yes, John's and Lombardi's are not slice joints, they serve big pies in a non-neapolitan format, so I'm lumping them in with the gas oven places.

Perhaps not apples to apples, but certainly not apples to radiators.

[Steve R.]

True enough.  By the way, I tend to like Dom's square slices better anyway, but get somewhat protective of him/DiFara's when Katie or others compare what he does to others with different facilities & options.  As I said, it's fair game as his prices and accepted notoriety put him in the mix, but its still basically a local place that uses better than usual ingredients and takes more personal care than most others.   And I really do think that it tastes better than the others.

Also, not sure whether you've been keeping up, but the "new" Franny's is even harder to get into than the old, smaller place.  Ate a mid-afternoon lunch at the bar there a week or so ago.  Very nice.

[Jonathan]

I like his square slice better too. And again, I would love to have it in my neighborhood (much better than Smiling Pizza which was my closest slice joint).

As for Franny's, I still keep in touch with all of them and want to get up to Marco's and the new Franny's. It holds a special place in my heart, though it also is a polarizing place.

[DonRocks]

[if you two aren't careful, you may start to find common ground and agree with each other. We can't have that. ] 

[Steve R.]

We already know we have common ground. My wife & I are big fans of the blueberry & the balsamic steaks we had in Florence last summer at his sister restaurant.

[Steve R.]

Just to put a couple of other respected food bloggers into the mix, here's a new review by Ben Kopelman at Immaculate Infatuation.

[Pool Boy]

Had a good pie here 7 years ago. We were very early in the day. There was a pie that was ready to share that several of us did. Two others waited for a fresh pie. The fresh pie was extraordinary, but I only got a bite or two. We were doing an extensive pizza tour that day and I'd wished we finished here with a full fresh pie. <sigh>

[Steve R.]

FYI: Dom (DiFara's Pizza) died today.  RIP.

[lion]

Thanks Steve R. for the posting. Sad to hear that. 

Made a couple of visits out there seventeen years ago and throughly enjoyed them. From my limited exposure, Dom was an old fashioned guy, didn't talk much but had a glint in his eye. I still think it was one of the best NY style pizzas even had. 

 

NY Times

[Steve R.]

Yeah.  I'm 69 years old and knew him since I was 14.  It was my teenage hangout.  I'll miss him being there.

[lion]

Not quite that age yet, but losing unique craftspeople in the Mom and Pop restaurants, who have consistently toiled away over decades, has been one of the melancholy experiences of getting older. I suppose it is appropriate to have these kind of feelings during the Sakura blossoming time of year. 

As my friend reminded me yesterday after texting him about Dom's passing, we made the trek from the UWS to Di Fara’s and picked up three full pies for a house party. Still remember so many people asking us on the subway, where did we get that pizza, it smells so incredible. New Yorkers making conversation on the subway! As someone who still lives in NYC after twenty years, he said that never happens. 

[Steve R.]

So, I turned 70 today & last night had a dream that I was talking to Maggie (Dom’s daughter) about when I hung out at DiFara’s, way before she was born.  I’m gonna choose not to try to delve too deeply into why this was my birthday dream topic. 🤔