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Criticizing the Critics


bilrus

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No, I'm not mortified.

Mark, I'll need to delete your previous post since it's too personal, and I'll probably delete this one too after an hour or so. T.J. said that he didn't know about the chat, and I absolutely believe him. Had I known that, I would have probably PM'd him and asked him to hold off on his posting for a few more days, rather than replying to him in the thread.

T.J. is A-OK with me, and he's welcome to post his comments here anytime.

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I tried posting my response earlier but must have been trying right as Don was doing his maintenance, so my longish, hopefully well thought out post was lost in the ether.

But the gist of it was what caused me to start this thread (or at least post the post that started it) in the first place.

There is nothing inappropriate about someone posting negative comments about a restaurant on this site or eGullet or Chowhound or their own blog assuming a few things:

1) The comments are based on an actual experience

2) The comments are posted to be of some help to a future reader

3) The comments are supported with specifics and facts

4) The comments are posted appropriately and not repeated every chance the poster has to interject them into a conversation

5) The comments are not part of a vendetta against a restaurant (talk about pissing in the ocean - how much real damage, aside from to a chef or restaurateur's ego, can one person do on one of these sites?)

My reading of TJ's originial post would give him the benefit of the doubt on at least three of those. Could he have included more specifics? Sure, but that doesn't rule out the rest of the points.

Would it have been inappropriate for TJ to post his comments in the current chat with Chef Armstrong? Of course. Would it have been inappropriate for him to post about a meal he had six months ago while the chat was going on? Sure. Was it inappropriate for him to post about a recent meal in the ongoing thread about Restaurant Eve? Absolutely not.

And is it appropriate to tell someone to "sit down and be quiet" at any time for posting their opinions? I sure as hell hope not.

Sorry this is wearing you down, Don, but this is just about the only issue in the entire bullshit world of online food-forum politics that gets my dander up.

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Sorry this is wearing you down, Don, but this is just about the only issue in the entire bullshit world of online food-forum politics that gets my dander up.

Okay, but please note that none of T.J.'s posts were deleted - the timing of things was unfortunate, but the postings themselves were fine.

So yes, people have the right to speak their minds. Of course they do.

But restaurateurs also have the right to come on and defend themselves, and anyone who issues an opinion on a restaurant, especially a negative opinion, should be prepared to have that opinion vigorously scrutinized and challenged.

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Okay, but please note that none of T.J.'s posts were deleted - the timing of things was unfortunate, but the postings themselves were fine.

So yes, people have the right to speak their minds.  Of course they do.

But restaurateurs also have the right to come on and defend themselves, and anyone who issues an opinion on a restaurant, especially a negative opinion, should be prepared to have that opinion vigorously scrutinized and challenged.

Agreed - and if the original poster was straightforward and not personal in their comments, the restaurateur and other members who disagree should follow in kind.

I think this board, and eG before the changes, thrive partially because chefs and restaurant staff feel free to post regularly. Unfortunately, we aren't all going to love everything that someone else does, no matter how well intentioned they are or how hard they work at it.

Don - you've done a good job keeping a balance between the two sides, while dealing with a silly situation. Keep up the good work.

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No need to apologize. It's really a question of proportion. Could the post have been more informative? Of course. Did it lack detail? Certainly. But the reaction it provoked, IMO, was disproportionate to these "offenses".
You're a longtime eG poster without an axe to grind as far as I know, and it would be nice to get a little more detail. Perhaps "slam" was too harsh but Eve seems to get very good reviews for its food, drinks and service. Is the comparison to Maestro fair to Eve, as they seems to have different misions and foci? As for Palena...I am in a distinct minority in not slavering over Palena so that comparison, to me, means nothing.

I'll pull the claws in next time. :P

Bill, you hit it:

Was it inappropriate for him to post about a recent meal in the ongoing thread about Restaurant Eve? Absolutely not.

And is it appropriate to tell someone to "sit down and be quiet" at any time for posting their opinions? I sure as hell hope not.

I've had the "sit down and be quiet" treatment myself regarding Bistrot du Coin, and Palena. Asking a poster for more detail, especially when their opinion is contrary to most postings, hardly qualifies.

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[P.S. Anytime you guys feel a posting has crossed the line, you can always advise me. This is not an exact science (trust me), and the freedom-of-speech versus personal-attack boundary is a fuzzy one.

A lot of this stuff has happened in the past few hours and I'm quite busy with work today, so I haven't had time to moderate things like I'd like to. When there's a flare-up, sometimes I have to make quick decisions, and those decisions may or may not be the correct ones.]

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So it appears there are two camps on this issue:

1) The bilrus camp - We should be free to criticize restaurants without fear of castigation.

2) The Michael Landrum camp - These anonymous internet A-holes are threatening my livelihood.

I always chuckle, yet cringe, when I see something like this on Tom's chat:

"Hi Tom, this is Awanna Sukuptiya, General Manager of Cafe Hooha, responding to the poster who wrote in and complained about his negative experience at our establishment. It is our job to make the customer - every customer - happy, and we apparently failed in this one instance. I would like to apologize publicly, and to reassure the dining community that we take items like this seriously. Please have the customer contact me personally, and we will make every attempt to right our wrong."

<The GM then turns to the chef>

"If we find out who that fucker is, and he comes in here, you spit in his food. Better yet, let me do it."

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So it appears there are two camps on this issue:

1) The bilrus camp - We should be free to criticize restaurants without fear of castigation.

2) The Michael Landrum camp - These anonymous internet A-holes are threatening my livelihood.

I always chuckle, yet cringe, when I see something like this on Tom's chat:

"Hi Tom, this is Awanna Sukuptiya, General Manager of Cafe Hooha, responding to the poster who wrote in and complained about his negative experience at our establishment.  It is our job to make the customer - every customer - happy, and we apparently failed in this one instance.  I would like to apologize publicly, and to reassure the dining community that we take items like this seriously.  Please have the customer contact me personally, and we will make every attempt to right our wrong."

<The GM then turns to the chef>

"If we find out who that fucker is, and he comes in here, you spit in his food.  Better yet, let me do it."

I wondered what that was in my mashed potatoes the last time I went to Ray's. :P

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A trend I'm starting to see more of is The Preemptive Strike: a disgruntled customer will shake his finger at the receptionist upon leaving, stridently threatening that "I'm going to report this on the internet!" and then storm out of the establishment. The restaurateur will then cut them off at the pass, and try to beat them to the internet, often having a letter written to Tom that same evening. Just the other day, I received an email from an important restaurant, asking me to "be on the lookout" for an angry customer who issued just such a threat. I suppose it's the customers who say nothing at all that do the most damage, sort of like that quietly disgruntled postal worker who shows up one day brandishing an uzi.

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A trend I'm starting to see more of is The Preemptive Strike:  a disgruntled customer will shake his finger at the receptionist upon leaving, stridently threatening that "I'm going to report this on the internet!" and then storm out of the establishment.  The restaurateur will then cut them off at the pass, and try to beat them to the internet, often having a letter written to Tom that same evening.  Just the other day, I received an email from an important restaurant, asking me to "be on the lookout" for an angry customer who issued just such a threat.  I suppose it's the customers who say nothing at all that do the most damage, sort of like that quietly disgruntled postal worker who shows up one day brandishing an uzi.

Ha! And you thought this was going to be just a lil old forum with Donnie and his friends shooting the bull about food? Now that you've been approached to be a watchdog, advocate, supporter, and the kitchen sink?

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I just this minute got a message from an employee at an upscale restaurant, saying that some customers were in last night who, at the end of the meal, presented a gift certificate which expired 1 1/2 years ago. The gift certificate was not honored. Then the gentleman angrily said that "six other restaurants have honored our expired gift certificates!" and proceded to stiff the server.

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I, personally, am tired of getting blasted by anonymous complainers. If stuff is so bad, can't you speak up while it's happening instead of posting it the next day anonymously on the interernet where NOTHING CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT?

Rant over.

Hear hear. Having worked both front and back of the house, I can say that all restaurant staff strive for guests to enjoy their experience, and would always prefer righting a wrong than letting a guest leave the restaurant unhappy, unsatiated, or worst of all, misguided.

Is it outside the scope of a server's job to inform a guest of his/her erroneous views on food? For instance, when a guest complains that softshell crabs taste 'metallic', is it appropriate to inform her that the metallic taste, or brinyness, or fresh taste of the ocean, is in fact the hallmark of fresh seafood?

She was offered her choice of any entree on the menu as replacement, free of charge. She ordered another seafood dish, and was pleased after all.

Diners, please speak up if you have issues with the food, service, or any aspect of your experience in any restaurant. Give restaurant staff a chance to change or improve your judgement. We'd all get along a lot better that way.

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being in the FOH, I encountered the same issue last night at the bar, but the lady was so cordial about her complaint. 'Salty' dish. I investigated, talked to the chef, we tasted every component, found that the micro-greens may have been a little salty, but nothing too out of the ordinary. Re-did another plate of the same dish, and she was happy as a clam. the difference, the lady was so nice about the whole ordeal. It wasn't life threatning to her, and in the end, she will be remembered by all in the way she conducted herself. People bitch because they feel they can, in the end they know they control their destiny if they want to bitch, because as restaurant owners and employees know, one bad word of mouth leads to 10.

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I, personally, am tired of getting blasted by anonymous complainers. If stuff is so bad, can't you speak up while it's happening instead of posting it the next day anonymously on the interernet where NOTHING CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT?

Rant over.

Is there a specific thing that set you off, or was this a general rant?

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Read the Palena thread.

Sorry, but I disagree. I thought the poster's comments were pretty mild. Anyone who deals with customers, or is in the public eye, ought to be able to stand a little criticism (even of your friends!). Even if it is not exactly accurate. Or if it is anon. If you just want this board to be a big Valentine to restaurants and their owners (see Dino's), and so-called insiders, say so. But it seems like a pretty bland idea to me.

And sometimes people complain the next day because it is not always possible (for any number of reasons) to get one's complaints addressed immediately. I work in TV, (and own a wine and tapas bar) and believe me, I hear a lot of criticism from people outside both industries, and you know they may not know squat. Tough, man. That's why they pay you the big bucks.

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Mild? Sure. But does anyone really care what some anonymous poster thinks of anything?

I am not interested in big wet kisses to restaurants and their owners (just see my comments about BdC on eGullet) but anonymous comments on this board and others should be immediately discounted, IMO. Also any complaints that the poster did not address when the establishment could have made a difference, i.e. during the meal.

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Also any complaints that the poster did not address when the establishment could have made a difference, i.e. during the meal.

Judging from the comments by professionals here, not everybody knows how to take criticism in stride. The problem is not the anonymous poster, but the thin-skinned pros who won't abide by any complaints. Let the anons have their say-I'm not saying they're right, but they often have legitimate gripes that can't be addressed in person. And if they're getting flamed here, imagine how some restauranteur might treat them if they knew their identity.

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I would hardly call this flaming.  :lol:  

What's an example of a legitimate gripe that can't be addressed in person?

Flaming-piling on in a nasty fashion. Read the thread, read Mr. Slater's and others' 'rants' (their quote not mine.).

How many sommeliers does a restaurant have? How many managers? Are they busy? Should I put my night on hold while they get un-busy? "Excuse me, dear, (boss, mother, first date,etc.) I'm going to have an angry fifteen minute discussion about how bad the service/food/music/rat problem is here. Have some more wine." The idea that all problems can (and will) be addressed immediately, and, more importantly, corrected immediately, is ludicrous. Maybe in a perfect world, but not here on Earth. That's just restaurant industry PR BS.

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I know what flaming is, thanks. This doesn't qualify:

Diners, please speak up if you have issues with the food, service, or any aspect of your experience in any restaurant. Give restaurant staff a chance to change or improve your judgement. We'd all get along a lot better that way.

And Mr Slater's comment:

I, personally, am tired of getting blasted by anonymous complainers.

shouldn't have anyone quaking in their boots.

And why does it have to be an angry discussion? Most people have manners, and many remember to use them.

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Flaming-piling on in a nasty fashion.  Read the thread, read Mr. Slater's and others' 'rants' (their quote not mine.). 

How many sommeliers does a restaurant have?  How many managers?  Are they busy?  Should I put my night on hold while they get un-busy?  "Excuse me, dear, (boss, mother, first date,etc.) I'm going to have an angry fifteen minute discussion about how bad the service/food/music/rat problem is here.  Have some more wine."  The idea that all problems can (and will) be addressed immediately, and, more importantly, corrected immediately, is ludicrous.  Maybe in a perfect world, but not here on Earth.  That's just restaurant industry PR BS.

PR BS. Give me a break! I cannot remember a time when I have had and issue and not had it resolved quickly and without major hassle. Most of the time the server can handle it and the manager is not even directly involved.

You think these negative posts are read not by others? Try doing a google search on a restaurant and see what shows up. Valid or not these posts can do harm to a place of business. And these businesses are not some big corporate machine with tons of PR money.

While the post was not a complete bash, it was on the poor side. Not liking one dish and saying I would not return for anything but the burger and fries. Come on, it the B&W reactions like that which are unpalatable to me.

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PR BS.  Give me a break!  I cannot remember a time when I have had and issue and not had it resolved quickly and without major hassle.  Most of the time the server can handle it and the manager is not even directly involved.

You think these negative posts are read not by others?  Try doing a google search on a restaurant and see what shows up.  Valid or not these posts can do harm to a place of business.  And these businesses are not some big corporate machine with tons of PR money.

While the post was not a complete bash, it was on the poor side.  Not liking one dish and saying I would not return for anything but the burger and fries.  Come on, it the B&W reactions like that which are unpalatable to me.

So is it NOT OK to post something negative about a restaurant anonymously, but it IS OK to post with your name? Or are you saying it is never appropriate to post something negative? Unless it's a chain? This thread is about using real names. Your reply is a little confusing

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So is it NOT OK to post something negative about a restaurant anonymously, but it IS OK to post with your name?  Or are you saying it is never appropriate to post something negative?  Unless it's a chain?  This thread is about using real names.  Your reply is a little confusing

I can only speak for myself...

I prefer a word from a customer in person in real time. This gives me the best shot to take care of the problem and to be able to get all the facts. Just because a customer complains doesn't mean they are right. But a customer feeling that they are nbot having their expectations merits a reaction on my part.

Second to that is a post or an email after the fact where I can communicate with the customer. I prefer non anonymous ones because it is easy for people to take pot shots at competitors etc when anonymous.

Last but not lease is an anonymous comment. It is better than nothing but, often when given in anger, don't have a lot of constructive content.

I have recieved a lot of good constructive criticism on this board and on other forums. I accept all of it so I can get better at what I do. As a result of negative comments on Don Rockwell, we have changed several recipes, changed our chicken supplier, changed our lamb supplier. Also as a result

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Should I put my night on hold while they get un-busy?  "Excuse me, dear, (boss, mother, first date,etc.) I'm going to have an angry fifteen minute discussion about how bad the service/food/music/rat problem is here.  Have some more wine."  The idea that all problems can (and will) be addressed immediately, and, more importantly, corrected immediately, is ludicrous.  Maybe in a perfect world, but not here on Earth.  That's just restaurant industry PR BS.

I'm not going to delete this thread, because it's a legitimate issue that generated some serious stomach acid before I put this website online. After a lot (a lot) of thought, I decided to go ahead and let people use screen names, because several people expressed serious concern about using their real names on the internet, and I was swayed by their arguments. Though I favor real-name-only websites, I've also noticed a very high percentage of male participants that use them, whereas I'm happy that here, we have a strong, representative female contingent.

I agree with Miami Danny that it isn't always easy to voice a complaint during the meal. It's uncomfortable, especially with other diners around listening. It takes too much time and effort, and it often isn't worth the stress or the hassle.

But that doesn't mean your next resort is to come onto the internet and anonymously trash a place.

How about this sent via private email as a next step?

Dear Sir or Madam,

I was in for dinner last night, and things didn't go as I hoped they would have. The chili was served with a finger in it, our server stuck her hand up my skirt, and the red wine came out at room temperature.

Not looking for a free meal; just wanted to let you know.

Kind regards,

Penile Tendency.

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I've not had the vast experience that some of you have had. That being said, the last meal we had in one of our favorite restaurants, Firefly, and the subsequent after-dinner chat with John Wabeck made a couple of things plain to me. First, that gorgeous braised lamb is going to remain on the menu when winter comes. I don't know if the accompaniments will stay but, then, who cares? I have no doubt that whatever replaces the tomatoes will be just as lovely. Second, there is the issue of chefs getting a bit bored with cooking the same things night after night. (Hey, as long as those fried oysters are on the menu, Craig will happily eat there).

As I see it, the dilemma here is that so many of the chefs and managers of the places we seem to care about the most read this website--an anonymous complaint is a word to the wise. If the lurkers haven't figured that out, then I don't know . . .

On the other hand, we appreciate someone here taking one for the team. Does it matter if the original poster had mentioned that the veal pojarski wasn't up to snuff at the time? Would any one of us not be interested in that particular opinion? And, who among us really wants to make a complaint about the food when it's a matter of personal taste, rather than a menu misrepresentation?

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I, personally, am tired of getting blasted by anonymous complainers. If stuff is so bad, can't you speak up while it's happening instead of posting it the next day anonymously on the Internet where NOTHING CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT?

Rant over.

I feel the need to speak about the use of anonymous screen names. Back when this board was in it's zygote phase Don and I had a conversation about whether or not he should require members to use real names. I was completely against it and made it clear that I knew a number of eGers who would not participate if we were forced to use real names.

For many people, myself included, it is a safety issue. I have had people in my life who did not quite understand that I wanted nothing to do with them. Using my real name would give them access to a part of my life that they do not need nor deserve. I have made a point of being difficult to find on the Internet and know others on this board who have done the same. In fact, if you Goggle my real name you will only find the eG course I co-wrote and that is posted under a different screen name. As much as we like to think that our board is a warm, welcoming place (which I hope it is) the reality is that the real world is not. And since anyone who chooses can read this site, and I hope more people do, I will never use my full real name.

Just for the record, my non-Dr.com are often embarrassed about dining out with me because I do speak up when there is a problem :lol:

edited to add that Rocks is a faster poster than I am and his post went up while I was typing away.

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I was in for dinner last night, and things didn't go as I hoped they would have.  The chili was served with a finger in it, our server stuck her hand up my skirt, and the red wine came out at room temperature.

Not looking for a free meal; just wanted to let you know.

Kind regards,

Penile Tendency.

Glad you got my letter...

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I feel the need to speak about the use of anonymous screen names.  Back when this board was in it's zygote phase Don and I had a conversation about whether or not he should require members to use real names.  I was completely against it and made it clear that I knew a number of eGers who would not participate if we were forced to use real names.

For many people, myself included, it is a safety issue.  I have had people in my life who did not quite understand that I wanted nothing to do with them.  Using my real name would give them access to a part of my life that they do not need nor deserve.  I have made a point of being difficult to find on the Internet and know others on this board who have done the same.  In fact, if you Goggle my real name you will only find the eG course I co-wrote and that is posted under a different screen name.  As much as we like to think that our board is a warm, welcoming place (which I hope it is) the reality is that the real world is not.  And since anyone who chooses can read this site, and I hope more people do, I will never use my full real name.

Just for the record, my non-Dr.com are often embarrassed about dining out with me because I do speak up when there is a problem :lol:

edited to add that Rocks is a faster poster than I am and his post went up while I was typing away.

Let us nor forget those of us who are actually choosing to legally change their given name to their screen name. I'm having trouble deciding if I want to be Mr. Crescent Fresh or simply CrescentFresh, like Cher! :P

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.... The idea that all problems can (and will) be addressed immediately, and, more importantly, corrected immediately, is ludicrous.  Maybe in a perfect world, but not here on Earth.  That's just restaurant industry PR BS.

Sorry, MD, but that is just plain wrong. Problems can be addressed, and are (at least where I work), as soon as you open your mouth. Sitting there fuming silently and then going home mad helps no one- not you, and certainly not the business.

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Isn't part of the point of a board like this to share both good and bad experiences?

Let's say I have a bad dish or bad service at a restaurant and I do mention it to my wiater or a manager. Should I then ignore the fact that I had the bad experience? Or should I post about the bad (and good) experiences along with the response from the restaurant?

Or should I just ignore it completely because I don't want to offend.

Let's face it - there is good and bad in the restaurant industry. And there are a lot of places I can spend my money - more than I can afford to. I want to know about the good and the bad so I can choose wisely. I'm smart enough to distinguish between legitimate complaints and mindless bitching. And I'd bet most of the members here are too.

If someone wants to only hear the good things then maybe someone should start a new board - www.loveletterstorestaurants.com

In the end, the restaurants that deserve praise are going to get praise that far outweighs the criticisms they get, like they always have.

OK - So I am back to work after a week-long vacation. I'm a little cranky.

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I think that the point Mark is making is that the restaurant cannot address your complaint unless they know about it. If you have a problem with the service or the food, it is only right that you should politely discuss it with the manager of the restaurant then, not post an annon. rant or complaint.

There is nothing wrong with posting about a bad experience, but if you puruse any of the posts about a horrible experience, one of the first posts in response will normally be "did you tell the restaurant?"

Of course, if it is so bad that your are fuming, it may be better to wait until you calm down to discuss it with the restaurant, perhaps by phone or e-mail the next day.

I have had experiences at "good" restaurants that ruined the experience, normally because of horrible or rude service. I find that discussing it with the manager in a calm and reasonable manner works wonders. In some cases, meals were comped, but I never expect that. In other cases, I was invited to return with a gift certificate, etc.

But the point is, if the restaurant does not know who you are, or when it happened, they cannot try to fix it for you.

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But I think there is a difference between a post that says "I had dishes x, y and z and I thought that X and Z were really great but Y didn't work for me because of 1, 2, and 3."

And a post that says that "the service sucked, the order was wrong, the room was 50 degrees, the wine was poured on my head and no, I didn't mention it to the staff at the time."

The first post shares the food experience and what the poster liked and didn't like.

The second post is someone who doesn't know how to communicate effectively in real time and needs some help.

I like the first type of post and I want to know what dishes are working and aren't working from a variety of diners. It's like movie reviews--eventually you figure out that if Anthony Lane liked a movie I'll like it too but Stephen Hunter's favorites are to be avoid at all costs.

Did that make any sense at all?

Jennifer

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Isn't part of the point of a board like this to share both good and bad experiences? 

Let's say I have a bad dish or bad service at a restaurant and I do mention it to my wiater or a manager.  Should I then ignore the fact that I had the bad experience?  Or should I post about the bad (and good) experiences along with the response from the restaurant?

Or should I just ignore it completely because I don't want to offend.

Let's face it - there is good and bad in the restaurant industry.  And there are a lot of places I can spend my money - more than I can afford to.  I want to know about the good and the bad so I can choose wisely.  I'm smart enough to distinguish between legitimate complaints and mindless bitching.  And I'd bet most of the members here are too.

If someone wants to only hear the good things then maybe someone should start a new board - www.loveletterstorestaurants.com

In the end, the restaurants that deserve praise are going to get praise that far outweighs the criticisms they get, like they always have. 

OK - So I am back to work after a week-long vacation.  I'm a little cranky.

Of course negative experiences can and should be conveyed on this, and other boards. The problem is the mindless, petty, or just harsh criticism that is unwarranted. While most members here are smart enough to ignore those posts, others that are not familiar with the site or restaurant may not be.

Just think about how much better a 'negative' post would read if someone stated that they talked with someone about the problem and related how things were resolved (or not). That would personally help me decide if I would go or make a return trip to a particular spot.

Just give the place(s) a chance to correct the situation.

Edited by mdt
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But I think there is a difference between a post that says "I had dishes x, y and z and I thought that X and Z were really great but Y didn't work for me because of 1, 2, and 3."

And a post that says that "the service sucked, the order was wrong, the room was 50 degrees, the wine was poured on my head and no, I didn't mention it to the staff at the time."

The first post shares the food experience and what the poster liked and didn't like.

The second post is someone who doesn't know how to communicate effectively in real time and needs some help.

I like the first type of post and I want to know what dishes are working and aren't working from a variety of diners.  It's like movie reviews--eventually you figure out that if Anthony Lane liked a movie I'll like it too but Stephen Hunter's favorites are to be avoid at all costs.

Did that make any sense at all?

Jennifer

That makes excellent sense to me. If someone has encountered downright poor service or poor food, he should say so at the time (that does not preclude him mentioning it here as well, however). But more subjective impressions on what was pleasurable and what was less so--as long as they are substantive and informative--I think are the main ingredients of this site and should be posted freely.

As for anonymity, I agree with hillvalley. It's enough for the great Rocks, after all, to know our real names, underwear sizes, birthmarks, etc.

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Of course we want everyone to feel comfortable enough to approach a manager if any service or food issues do arise, but sometimes a sense of awkwardness may come about, and customers feel every need to rant on a website instead. If that be, well hopefully it heals all wounds, but this is an open forum where not only rants occur, but raves do occur. What I read through Marks initial post was something we are all missing. The passion that we feel towards our jobs in this industry. This is a man who works hard, enjoys his job, and puts out a product he feels is his best. How do you think a baseball pitcher feels when at the end of the day, he pitches 9 strong innings of shutout ball, and gives a 5th inning single. A one hitter. Everyone will be saying'Great game!" The pitcher will be saying, " Except for that one hit in the 5th'. We strive for perfection, but realize that its in the effort we put out that we can be proud of our work.

Sorry for the long post.

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Mistakes and issues happen all of the time. If you are looking for anything perfect, will never happen. The real question and mark of good service is how they recover and what they do to fix the issues.

If you have an issue and do not tell someone they cannot help you.

The real key is just be polite and respectful and most of the time things get fixed. It is when you have done the above and nothing happens then the place needs to be slammed, but everyone deserves the opportunity to make it right before they are slammed.

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Sorry, MD, but that is just plain wrong. Problems can be addressed, and are (at least where I work), as soon as you open your mouth. Sitting there fuming silently and then going home mad helps no one- not you, and certainly not the business.

i would like to echo mark's statement. every restaurant pro that i know will bend over backwards to accomodate even what may be viewed as a frivilous complaint once we are made aware. more importantly restaurant managers are paid for our judgement and for our ability to identify problems before they arise. that being said we still miss things, things that are done by design are misinterpreted by our guests, or any other missed opportunity. most managers will tell you that many of the complainers (no slight intended) become some of our most frequent regulars becuase the interaction of resolving a complaint is really an opportunity to make a freind/regular.

notti bianche got slapped around in today's tom s. chat by a guest who complained that her "business lunch" took an hour and 45min and was the "slowest service" ever. through the magic of computers i discovered exactly what table this was. what she did not mention was that during her ordeal of a lunch, managers talked to this table twice (once me, once my assistant gm) and again upon her exit. forget about asking for a manager to register a complaint, managers came to the table and inquired about the status of the meal. and not a peep about anything, but from an anonymous internet perch she declared her experience so interminable that she would never return. she also failed to mention that she arrived 20minutes early and her guest 10minutes late. nor did she mention that they each had 3 cups of coffee that factored into the total time for lunch. that is grossly unfair to a restaurant.

just wanted to provide another example of why restaurant professionals disdain the anon complaint.

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what she did not mention was that during her ordeal of a lunch, managers talked to this table twice (once me, once my assistant gm) and again upon her exit. forget about asking for a manager to register a complaint, managers came to the table and inquired about the status of the meal.  and not a peep about anything, but from an anonymous internet perch she declared her experience so interminable that she would never return.

That's just ridiculous.

And the arriving early/late and 3 cups of coffee... :lol: That's why unless I've been there I take all such "reports" with a grain of salt unless I know the person speaking.

I made the same point as Jennifer in this post:

Something like "I had X dish and the combination just didn't work" or "My entree was cold" or "My steak was really salty" or "It took 20 minutes to get our check" or "Our recommended wine was a poor match with the entree" shows more thought and is far more interesting and informative than "It just didn't wow me". So sorry.

and was accusing of giving a "drubbing." There is nothing wrong with offering one's opinion, good or bad. Just please make it more informative and well-thought out.

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most managers will tell you that many of the complainers (no slight intended) become some of our most frequent regulars becuase the interaction of resolving a complaint is really an opportunity to make a freind/regular.

This is SO TRUE! About five years ago, I went to a DC restaurant for the first time with my wife and my mother. The restaurant was recommended by a friend in the biz. We had some minor issues, probably the most difficult was that my mother's entree was far too salty. We mentioned it to the manager and my mom said, "Can you just bring me a salad instead, please?"

The manager said, "I can do that, but I'd rather you give me the chance to do this dish again. I know we can do it right. And I know we can do it fast." My mom said okay and a short time later the dish came back perfect.

Although our regularity there has since waned since I moved to a job in a new location, the way that incident was handled had my wife and I returning there 2-3 times a week. Sometimes just for a drink after work. Sometimes for a full dinner. Our loyalty was particularly noted in the quiet months and year following September 11 when the place was just dead. And we always would try to introduce others to the place and would bring our out-of-town guests there.

So, yes, how a manager handles a complaint can definitely be huge.

And Danny, may I suggest you send something in to Tom's chat next week pointing out exactly what you noted here about the party that complained anonymously after leaving? I'm sure your former guest will be thrilled to know you know who she is and she's no longer anonymous to you and the restaurant. After all, she's apparently not coming back again....so a little embarrasment couldn't hurt. :lol:

Edited by CrescentFresh
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And Danny, may I suggest you send something in to Tom's chat next week pointing out exactly what you noted here about the party that complained anonymously after leaving?  I'm sure your former guest will be thrilled to know you know who she is and she's no longer anonymous to you and the restaurant.  After all, she's apparently not coming back again....so a little embarrasment couldn't hurt.  :lol:

I second this idea.

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I'd like to start off by saying I have never been forced to stay anywhere for 2 1/2 hours except the time I was arrested for drunk and disorderly, but I digress. If you are so rankled by the "slow service" -SPEAK UP!

I was thinking about this moron on my commute into work. Any reasonable person would have said, after the entrees were dropped "one hour" into their lunch, "You know, we're in a bit of a hurry, we only have an hour. Can we just have our check?"

What the hell was this person doing for the 1 1/2 hours after their entrees were served? Even if this persons original complaint, slow service, is accurate, after the entrees have been dropped the rest of the time is ALL ON THEM.

I can eat a luncheon entree, leisurely, in twenty minutes. With a glass of wine

This complaint was crafted by an idiot. I hope Danny blasts them in a response to Tom. He'll print it.

I'll be darkening the door to Notti Bianche soon, as a show of support.

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What the hell was this person doing for the 1 1/2 hours after their entrees were served? Even if this persons original complaint, slow service, is accurate, after the entrees have been dropped the rest of the time is ALL ON THEM.

Seriously -- if things are so slow, why the dessert, coffee, etc? And what is so bad about a 2 hour lunch? I've had a few business lunches where I actually try to drag them out that long (one actually passed the 3-hour mark at Dish once!). Not because I hate my job, mind you, but because sometimes I need to keep people eating and talking as long as I can. I don't know if that was the case with this lady, but keeping mum about it (even after two managers stopped by) was lame.

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Any reasonable person would have said, after the entrees were dropped "one hour" into their lunch, "You know, we're in a bit of a hurry, we only have an hour. Can we just have our check?"

Any reasonable person would say when they ORDERED the entrees that they were in a hurry. But it's pretty clear that this person, and the other particularly egregious offender in Tom's chat (the one at the end who called a manager to complain and lied about what happened) aren't reasonable.

There's a lot of that going around lately. I confess to being completely baffled by the people who expect things to be comped at the drop of a hat - if they don't *like* a dish, never mind if there's something actually wrong with it.

My current theory is that they were all raised by overly entitled trust-fund howler monkeys. "Didn't receive exactly what I wanted even if it changed between the time I ordered and the time I got food! Sucking up not sufficient for overinflated ego! Must screech and fling poo!" :lol:

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Olive Branch Danny, Olive Branch. The best way to resolve the issue and get some closure on it is to read some of the past chats where managers and owners have chimmed in after a negative response, by asking Tom to relay to the chatter that they would like to further discuss the matter and make sure that it doesn't happen again. As in the past, and usually as the case goes, the chatter is somewhat bending the truth, but instead of name calling in the open, keep it behind closed doors. As I said, be the Olive Branch, and offer her an explanation, not a gift cerftificate, as that would only continue the cycle. Tom is very good at allowing restaurants the chance to tell their side of the story, albeit usually a week after, but he does want awarenesss raised from both parties. Good luck, hopefully the comment in the chat didn't affect your business in anyway, especially after that great review.

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