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Bob Dylan (1941-), Lyricist and Troubadour from Minnesota, and 2016 Nobel Prize Winner for Literature


The Hersch

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To bring this back from the ridiculous to the sublime, Bob Dylan, "Absolutely Sweet Marie", from Blonde on Blonde.

A transcription of the lyric (not mine, so I can't vouch for every detail):

"Absolutely Sweet Marie"

Well, your railroad gate, you know I just can't jump it
Sometimes it gets so hard, you see
I'm just sitting here beating on my trumpet
With all these promises you left for me
But where are you tonight, sweet Marie ?

Well, I waited for you when I was half sick
Yes, I waited for you when you hated me
Well, I waited for you inside of the frozen traffic
When you knew I had some other place to be
Now where are you tonight, sweet Marie ?

Well, anybody can be just like me, obviously
But then, now again, not too many can be like you, fortunately.

Well, six white horses that you did promise
Were fin'ly delivered down to the penitentiary
But to live outside the law, you must be honest
I know you always say that you agree
But where are you tonight, sweet Marie ?

Well I don't know how it happened
But the river-boat captain he knows my fate
But ev'rybody else, even yourself
They're just gonna have to wait.

Well, I got the fever down in my pockets
The Persian drunkard, he follows me
Yes, I can take him to your house but I can't unlock it
You see, you forgot to leave me with the key
Oh, where are you tonight, sweet Marie ?

Now, I been in jail when all the mail showed
That a man can't give his address out to bad company
And now I stand here lookin' at your yellow railroad
In the ruins of your balcony
Wondering where you are tonight, sweet Marie ?
 
Some commentary I wrote to a friend a couple of years ago:
 
I've always thought that this was one of Bob Dylan's most brilliant songs, although it's obviously not one of his most famous. I was thinking of trying to explain its genius, but then I realized I'm not nearly clever enough to do that. But just listen to this and notice how all the boy-girl relationship stuff that the song starts out exploring sort of collapses at "six white horses", when the song is suddenly and magically transfigured into something that inhabits a mythical world rather than the familiar terrain of pop songs. And then Dylan slides in one of his most effective epigrams, tossing off "to live outside the law you must be honest". And then "I got the fever" -- sort of conventional-- but "I got the fever down in my pockets" -- where does that come from? Who has the fever down in his pockets, and how did anyone ever think to say that? Was he just going for the off-rhyme in "I can take him to your house but I can't unlock it"? Or did the pockets lead him to "unlock it" outside his own control? And then that breathtaking harmonica solo, which in its way is probably as good as Dylan ever got playing an instrument.
 
Anyway, enjoy this, in the ruins of your balcony.
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Bob.  
The Great Music Experience.  
Japan 1994.  
3 Songs with full orchestra.  (A Hard Rain's A Gonna Fall, I Shall Be Released, Ring Them Bells)
 
If you have 15 minutes of free time, lose yourself in this.

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On 10/30/2014 at 11:18 PM, The Hersch said:

Song literature. No one artist has produced a comparable body of song literature since the world began, and if you can name one who did I'll eat my headgear. Even if you don't like the songs, if it comes to that.

BTW, I'm not sure what you consider to be a song (you did say "since the world began"), but I would put Telemann ahead of anyone, and not by a little. You can take *just* his cantatas (which are absolutely songs), and they'd be double the total output of Dylan.

(If the world began in 1950, I think Frank Zappa might have Dylan beat; either way, you measure these two in the "hundreds," and you measure Telemann in the "thousands.")

Also, I wouldn't discount the quality of cantatas - just listen to Bach's BWV Number *One* (this isn't the first piece he ever wrote, but it's the first in his catalog). For awhile, he was writing one of these damned things a *week*!

I know, I know ... it's the gestalt.

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A 36 disk set of concerts in 1966, coming out in November.

"Bob Dylan - The 1966 Live Recordings" on amazon.com

It's sometimes called a copyright dump when you do this mainly for the purpose of re-establishing your copyright claim on creations whose terms would otherwise soon expire. Put it back on the market for a short while, and keep it under copyright for another 50 years (or something like that). No one thinks there's much of a market for this, though it's a good deal at under $4 per cd, from what I have been hearing.

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On 9/14/2016 at 10:33 AM, DonRocks said:

BTW, I'm not sure what you consider to be a song (you did say "since the world began"), but I would put Telemann ahead of anyone, and not by a little. You can take *just* his cantatas (which are absolutely songs), and they'd be double the total output of Dylan.

It's interesting that you've moved this thread from music to literature, while having written that Telemann's contribution to song literature trumps Dylan's. How many of Telemann's vocal works have texts written by the composer? Telemann was a composer, not a song-writer. Irving Berlin wrote songs; George Gershwin composed. Dylan writes songs, many of which I think will live for a thousand years.

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6 hours ago, Bart said:

What's a good starter album (or 3) for someone who doesn't know anything about him [Leonard Cohen]?

I was going to ask the same thing about Dylan sometime in 2017, but I figure now's as good a time as any.

Earlier, I set off on my usual "beginning-to-end" trip, never failing to delude myself into thinking that I'll cover an artist's entire oeuvre; I'm still on Dylan's first album.

I make valiant efforts to familiarize myself with the principal work (or works) of as many Nobel Prize Winners for Literature (*) that I can find the time for - right now, I'm still in the early stages of a book by Mo Yan, but when I'm finished, I'm going to turn towards Dylan.

However, instead of "doing the cycle," I'm going to head straight for the tenderloin - if you read "The Great Gatsby" - a good novel - you'll probably think F. Scott Fitzgerald is a talented author; any trained reader who makes the mistake of reading "This Side of Paradise" would think Fitzgerald is nothing more than an arrogant child, who laughably assumes that he's in possession of all of life's answers at age 24. To say, "He needed a few years to mature," is putting it mildly.

I'm currently working under the hypothesis that I've approached Dylan from the wrong angle - as a musician instead of an author - and I'm eager to take a fresh look at him through a different lens. Other than with his first album, most of which I *really* scrutinized, I know virtually nothing about him, and haven't paid attention to the lyrics of a single one of his songs (partial exception - "Like a Rolling Stone"), and since Dylan didn't write the vast majority of songs on his first album, I essentially know nothing about him from a literary perspective (yes, there are performance decisions used when covering other people's compositions, but this isn't the type of thing that would involve any literary award).

So, with that in mind, I'm going to ask the same thing: What are Dylan's works that his followers feel are his best? I will take dcs's advice, and approach Dylan using the gestalt of his works, rather than as a pure musician. People have cited "Homer" as an example of a literary figure who "sang" his works, but that's a separate topic which could (and perhaps should) be discussed endlessly - I strongly suspect Homer was more concerned with the "gestalt" of presenting his lyrical, epic poetry with cadence, rhythm, and an occasional strum, rather than spending endless hours becoming a virtuoso musician (here's something you've never thought of before: "Lyrical," as in "lyrical poetry," means, "of or pertaining to the lyre"). 

What I generally do with a Nobel Prize-winning author - or any author with whom I want to become familiar quickly - is take the work I feel is most representative, and dive right in - is there any reason that same approach shouldn't be used for Dylan? Or is there some sort of non-traditional means that should be used? If you were introducing someone to Dylan who knew absolutely nothing about him, what would you encourage them to do? (This has probably been addressed somewhere in this thread.)

I'm most interested in the opinions of people who love Dylan, but not for his musicianship, as I've already made up my mind about his pure musical abilities. I'm also mainly interested in the opinions of people who read literature as an important part of their lives - poetry, novels, short stories, non-fiction - anything that takes some mental fortitude, and isn't just a newspaper editorial, internet rant, or a "beach book." The multi-layered irony that I just read and posted about "The Alchemist" is not lost on me.

Just because Dylan isn't a good musician doesn't mean he isn't the greatest poet who ever walked the face of the Earth, and I'm going to be starting from a knowledge base of pretty much zero, so who knows, maybe he is. I also have no plans to "post my results"; I usually only post things to foster discussions, and there's already an enormous amount of discussion about Dylan. So, any advice on how to best familiarize myself with Dylan the Artist would be much appreciated.

(*) For the record, I give the Nobel Prizes for Literature about the same level of credence as I do the Academy Awards or the James Beard Awards - it's important to familiarize yourself with these things for cultural and sociological reasons; they are absolutely *not* an indicator of the greatest works of literature, films, or restaurants, but they're also not any sort of indicator of mediocrity - they just ... are what they are, each having its own particular quirks and problems with bias, marketing, personal agendas, politics, and favoritism.

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3 hours ago, DonRocks said:

So, with that in mind, I'm going to ask the same thing: What are Dylan's works that his followers feel are his best?

There is no right answer to this question, and everyone will follow a different angle into his oeuvre.  IMHO, if you listen to the following 5 albums and do not catch the wave, perhaps it is not for you:

Highway 61 Revisited
Blonde on Blonde
Nashville Skyline
Blood on the Tracks
Desire

As I see it, all art is personal at the end of the day.  For the artist and the public.

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5 hours ago, DonRocks said:

Earlier, I set off on my usual "beginning-to-end" trip, never failing to delude myself into thinking that I'll cover an artist's entire oeuvre; I'm still on Dylan's first album.

Appreciating Dylan is more of a soul grabbing/ emotional/ certainly spiritual/ somewhat musically religious experience connected to love, wanderlust, beat/ zen kinds of lyrics that similarly touch the heart.  

I can't see parsing and analyzing it.  One feels it more than dissects it.  As is true with other folk music.  Much longer description than gestalt.

I hung out at Irish bars with Irish immigrants and Irish Americans and loved it ... and that damn Irish music mostly made me want to puke.

Gestalt.....so nebulous in my mind.  Or in this case it's the lyrics, the music, the voice that does or doesn't resonate in an emotional way.

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His best musical album is Blonde on Blonde, for me. I don't even listen for the lyrics sometimes, some of which can be too cute and seem like filler. Listen for the music. I Want You. Stuck Inside of Mobile. One of Us Must Know (Sooner or Later). Absolutely Sweet Marie. Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands.

Ok, listen to the lyrics in Just Like a Woman!  They're great.

Good Rolling Stone article on the making of the album.

Another fine musical album for me is the Soundtrack to Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid. The Mexican sounding guitar really pleases me. Not an obvious choice but a good one.

For lyrics, I don't think he ever surpassed The Times They Are a'Changin', Bringing It All Back Home, Highway 61 Revisited. John Wesley Harding.

His most fun album for me is Basement Tapes. Hands down. And some really stunning songs too. Goin to Acapulco, Tears of Rage, This Wheel's On Fire, Open the Door Richard. I Shall be Released.

Then there's New Morning. The song order is remarkable. Very good production job, IMO. Moving songs, The Man in Me, Father of Night.

Blood on the Tracks is too painful for me to listen to. It's critically up there, but it's just too painful.

Time Out of Mind. Some people even prefer the follow up, Love and Theft.

YMMV of course.

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Dylan's "great" period comprises the four albums "Another Side of Bob Dylan", "Bringing It All Back Home", "Highway 61 Revisited", and "Blonde on Blonde", remarkably all released within the brief span of 1964 to 1966. "Another Side" probably best epitomizes Dylan as lyric poet. Start there.

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Don-- perhaps you'd enjoy these Dylan covers from Chris Smither. You'll likely not be crazy about his voice, but he's a master guitarist.

Visions of Johanna from Blonde on Blonde is one of my favorite tracks. 

"As she, herself prepares for him
And Madonna, she still has not showed
We see this empty cage now corrode
Where her cape of the stage once had flowed
The fiddler, he now steps to the road
He writes everything's been returned which was owed
On the back of the fish truck that loads
While my conscience explodes
The harmonicas play the skeleton keys and the rain
And these visions of Johanna are now all that remain."

Smither also covered Desolation Row from Highway 61 Revisited. Another of my favorites:

"Praise be to Nero's Neptune, the Titanic sails at dawn
Everybody's shouting, "Which side are you on?!"
And Ezra Pound and T.S. Eliot fighting in the captain's tower
While calypso singers laugh at them and fishermen hold flowers
Between the windows of the sea where lovely mermaids flow
And nobody has to think too much about Desolation Row"

If you get the chance to see Smither live, go! I've seen him a couple of times at The Barns of Wolftrap. I see that he'll play at Ram's Head in Annapolis on 12/2 and Strathmore on 2/11.

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I want to call special attention to Patti Smith, who achieved glory in her stumble, and the subsequent humility she displayed in picking herself back up. Some may consider this a failure; I consider it one of her finest moments.

About Dylan not attending the ceremony, I think it's a big mistake to think he's being haughty or aloof; he could be ill, or he could not be feeling good about himself for whatever reason, and embarrassed to admit it. He is 75 years old, and needs to be given all benefit of any doubt. His acceptance speech was gracious and beautiful.

Dec 11, 2016 - "Read Bob Dylan's Entire Nobel Prize Acceptance Speech" by Joi-Marie Mckenzie on abcnews.go.com

Oct 28, 2016 - "Bob Dylan Breaks His Silence on Nobel Prize Win" by Ali Dukakis and Lesley Messer on abcnews.go.com

Oct 24, 2016 - "Expert Breaks Down Why Bob Dylan Deserves the Nobel Prize for Literature" by Andrea Dresdale on abcnews.go.com

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3 hours ago, DonRocks said:

I want to call special attention to Patti Smith, who achieved glory in her stumble, and the subsequent humility she displayed in picking herself back up. Some may consider this a failure; I consider it one of her finest moments.

About Dylan not attending the ceremony, I think it's a big mistake to think he's being haughty or aloof; he could be ill, or he could not be feeling good about himself for whatever reason, and embarrassed to admit it. He is 75 years old, and needs to be given all benefit of any doubt. His acceptance speech was gracious and beautiful.

What is the Patti Smith stumble/humility/picking herself back up thing that you mention?

As far as him missing the ceremony, I wouldn't be surprised if he has a conflict due to his touring schedule.  Below is his 2016 schedule.  He's not exactly taking it easy. 

4/4/16   Tokyo, Japan - Bunkamura Orchard Hall, Shibuya details set list  
4/5/16   Tokyo, Japan - Bunkamura Orchard Hall, Shibuya details set list  
4/6/16   Tokyo, Japan - Bunkamura Orchard Hall, Shibuya details set list  
4/9/16   Miyagi, Japan - Tokyo Electron Hall Miyagi details set list  
4/11/16   Osaka, Japan - Festival Hall details set list  
4/12/16   Osaka, Japan - Festival Hall details set list review
4/13/16   Osaka, Japan - Festival Hall details set list  
4/15/16   Nagoya, Japan - Century Hall details set list  
4/18/16   Tokyo, Japan - Bunkamura Orchard Hall, Shibuya details set list  
4/19/16   Tokyo, Japan - Bunkamura Orchard Hall, Shibuya details set list  
4/21/16   Tokyo, Japan - Bunkamura Orchard Hall, Shibuya details set list  
4/22/16   Tokyo, Japan - Bunkamura Orchard Hall, Shibuya details set list  
4/23/16   Tokyo, Japan - Tokyo Dome City Hall details set list  
4/25/16   Tokyo, Japan - Bunkamura Orchard Hall, Shibuya details set list  
4/26/16   Tokyo, Japan - Bunkamura Orchard Hall, Shibuya details set list  
4/28/16   Yokohama, Japan - Pacifico details set list review
6/4/16   Woodinville, Washington - Chateau Ste. Michelle Winery details set list reviews
6/5/16   Woodinville, Washington - Chateau Ste. Michelle Winery details set list reviews
6/7/16   Eugene, Oregon - Cuthbert Amphitheater details set list reviews
6/9/16   Berkeley, California - Greek Theatre details set list reviews
6/10/16   Berkeley, California - Greek Theatre details set list reviews
6/11/16   Santa Barbara, California - Santa Barbara Bowl details set list reviews
6/13/16   San Diego, California - Humphreys Concerts By The Bay details set list review
6/14/16   San Diego, California - Humphreys Concerts By The Bay details set list  
6/16/16   Los Angeles, California - Shrine Auditorium details set list reviews
6/19/16   Morrison, Colorado - Red Rocks Amphitheatre details set list review
6/21/16   Kansas City, Missouri - Starlight Theatre details set list reviews
6/22/16   Lincoln, Nebraska - Pinewood Bowl Theater details set list review
6/24/16   Highland Park, Illinois - Ravinia details set list reviews
6/25/16   Indianapolis, Indiana - Farm Bureau Insurance Lawn at White River State Park details set list reviews
6/26/16   Nashville, Tennessee - Carl Black Chevy Woods Amphitheater at Fontanel details set list review
6/28/16   Kettering, Ohio - Fraze Pavilion details set list reviews
6/29/16   Toledo, Ohio - Toledo Zoo Amphitheatre details set list reviews
6/30/16   Lewiston, New York - Artpark Mainstage details set list review
7/2/16   Lenox, Massachusetts - Tanglewood-Koussevitzky Music Shed details set list reviews
7/3/16   Mashantucket, Connecticut - Foxwoods Resort Casino-Grand Theater details set list review
7/5/16   Vienna, Virginia - Wolf Trap-Filene Center details set list reviews
7/6/16   Vienna, Virginia - Wolf Trap-Filene Center details set list reviews
7/8/16   Queens, New York - Forest Hills Stadium details set list reviews
7/9/16   Bethlehem, Pennsylvania - Sands Bethlehem Event Center details set list reviews
7/10/16   Atlantic City, New Jersey - Borgata Casino Event Center details set list reviews
7/12/16   Canandaigua, New York - Constellation Brands–Marvin Sands Performing Arts Center details set list review
7/13/16   Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - The Mann Center details set list reviews
7/14/16   Boston, Massachusetts - Blue Hills Bank Pavilion details set list reviews
7/16/16   Portland, Maine - Thompson's Point details set list review
7/17/16   Gilford, New Hampshire - Bank of New Hampshire Pavilion details set list reviews
10/07/16   Indio, California - Empire Polo Club details set list reviews
10/13/16   Las Vegas, Nevada - The Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas- The Chelsea details set list review
10/14/16   Indio, California - Empire Polo Club details set list review
10/16/16   Phoenix, Arizona - Comerica Theatre details set list reviews
10/18/16   Albuquerque, New Mexico - Kiva Auditorium details set list reviews
10/19/16   El Paso, Texas - Abraham Chavez Theatre details set list reviews
10/20/16   Lubbock, Texas - City Bank Auditorium (CANCELLED) details    
10/22/16   Thackerville, Oklahoma - WinStar World Casino and Resort details set list review
10/23/16   Tulsa, Oklahoma - Brady Theater details set list review
10/25/16   Shreveport, Louisiana - Shreveport Municipal Auditorium details set list review
10/26/16   Baton Rouge, Louisiana - River Center Theatre details set list review
10/27/16   Jackson, Mississippi - Thalia Mara Hall details set list  
10/29/16   Huntsville, Alabama - Von Braun Center details set list review
10/30/16   Paducah, Kentucky - Luther F. Carson Four Rivers Center details set list review
11/1/16   Louisville, Kentucky - Kentucky Center for the Performing Arts details set list review
11/2/16   Charleston, West Virginia - Clay Center details set list  
11/4/16   Durham, North Carolina - Durham Performing Arts Center details set list review
11/5/16   Roanoke, Virginia - Berglund Performing Arts Theatre details set list reviews
11/6/16   Charlotte, North Carolina - Blumenthal Performing Arts Center details set list review
11/9/16   Knoxville, Tennessee - Tennessee Theatre details set list  
11/10/16   Columbia, South Carolina - Township Auditorium details set list review
11/12/16   Asheville, North Carolina - Thomas Wolfe Auditorium details set list reviews
11/13/16   Chattanooga, Tennessee - Tivoli Theatre details set list review
11/15/16   Birmingham, Alabama - BJCC Concert Hall details set list  
11/16/16   Mobile, Alabama - Saenger Theatre details set list  
11/18/16   Jacksonville, Florida - Moran Theater details set list review
11/19/16   Clearwater, Florida - Ruth Eckerd Hall details set list review
11/20/16   Fort Myers, Florida - Barbara B. Mann Performing Arts Hall details set list  
11/22/16   Orlando, Florida - Dr. Phillips Center details set list review
11/23/16   Fort Lauderdale, Florida - Broward Center for the Performing Arts
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2 hours ago, Bart said:

What is the Patti Smith stumble/humility/picking herself back up thing that you mention?

Click on today's article, and play the embedded video.

In terms of Dylan's schedule ... wow! I guess he's not sitting in some hospital, wracked with pain and depression (*); he just has commitments. It's perfectly understandable that he couldn't make the ceremony; I do think he should have made his acknowledgment sooner than he did (he waited five days), even if it was to say something like, "This is an honor beyond comprehension, and I will be writing a detailed response when it fully sinks in - please be patient."

How many people here saw him this summer at Wolf Trap? I remember a few did, but I don't think we got a comprehensive roster.

(*) Funny, I just asked a friend the same thing about Mick Jagger a couple weeks ago. "You hear about Keith Richards, but you don't hear about Mick Jagger lately - do you think he's sick, like David Bowie was?" It turns out the fucker is doing *aerial yoga to maintain his 28-inch waist*! This picture is both awesome and hilarious:

Jagger.jpg

Trivia (which may, or may not, be an urban legend): Mick Jagger is the wealthiest person ever to attend the London School of Economics. True or not, that guy sure seems like he's had (having) a great life.

On 11/14/2016 at 1:13 PM, Al Dente said:

Don-- perhaps you'd enjoy these Dylan covers from Chris Smither. You'll likely not be crazy about his voice, but he's a master guitarist.

Dente et al, now that I've decided to take a fresh look at Dylan (this still won't happen until I finish my current Nobel book, and I'm only 1/3 of the way through - I read about 20 pages yesterday amidst three Pokestops), his voice doesn't matter in the least. 

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5 hours ago, DaveO said:

....and he may not have attended because he is an unusual and non conforming dude

I don't think that's it.  He's won at least one Grammy and attended the (TV) show and gave a (wonderful and weird) speech.  When he won an Oscar for the song Things Have Changed, he was on tour and appeared on the broadcast taped from Australia and he displayed the trophy on stage for over a year.  

Again, for over a year (maybe two) he had his Oscar trophy standing on stage with him.  I don't think he's too cool to attend........maybe 50 years ago, but not now.

Don - I was at the second Wolf Trap show.  It wasn't one of my all time favorites, but I'll see Bob whenever he comes close to town.  He played almost nothing from 2000 or prior.....maybe 2 or 3 songs.  It was nearly all new material, including a handful of old American standard tunes from his last two albums of cover songs.  All were very slow., 1930's and 40's crooner tunes.  If weren't an obsessed fan, I imagine you were pretty lost and bored with most of the show.

Like I said, it wasn't one of my top 10 shows, but I'll see him when he comes through again because he's blown me away many times when I've thought his best performances were behind him.

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15 hours ago, DonRocks said:

In terms of Dylan's schedule ... wow! I guess he's not sitting in some hospital, wracked with pain and depression (*); he just has commitments. It's perfectly understandable that he couldn't make the ceremony; I do think he should have made his acknowledgment sooner than he did (he waited five days), even if it was to say something like, "This is an honor beyond comprehension, and I will be writing a detailed response when it fully sinks in - please be patient."

I didn't realize that the shindig was happening now.  For some reason I thought it was next spring.  Obviously he's not touring now but maybe he's got some other commitment.  

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On 12/11/2016 at 3:11 PM, DonRocks said:

(*) Funny, I just asked a friend the same thing about Mick Jagger a couple weeks ago. "You hear about Keith Richards, but you don't hear about Mick Jagger lately - do you think he's sick, like David Bowie was?" It turns out the fucker is doing *aerial yoga to maintain his 28-inch waist*! This picture is both awesome and hilarious:

Jagger.jpg

Trivia (which may, or may not, be an urban legend): Mick Jagger is the wealthiest person ever to attend the London School of Economics. True or not, that guy sure seems like he's had (having) a great life. 

Warning - thread drift ahead.

Did I ever mention that, 30 or so years ago, I saw Mick Jagger completely nude while I was standing only 3-4 feet away?

Okay, so it was a gym locker room & we both were playing squash (separately).  And, as I've repeatedly told my wife and every other person whom I've related this event to, "no, I didn't look".

Never saw Dylan (my feeble attempt to get back to topic).

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34 minutes ago, Steve R. said:

Did I ever mention that, 30 or so years ago, I saw Mick Jagger completely nude while I was standing only 3-4 feet away?

Okay, so it was a gym locker room & we both were playing squash (separately).  And, as I've repeatedly told my wife and every other person whom I've related this event to, "no, I didn't look".

I know someone who said the exact same thing (squash excepted) about Artis Gilmore, except he said he *did* look.

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Bob Dylan's Nobel Prize lecture.

Nearly thirty-minutes long, and awesome.

"Quotable poetic phrases that can't be 'Beat'" [capitalization mine] - there's so much here.

I honestly believe Dylan waited so long because he felt he wasn't prepared to give a worthy speech - it took him a long, long time to get this together, but get it together he did: He took this honor too seriously to stand before the committee on a week's notice just to give a vacuous "thank you" - he spent many months working on what will be considered one of his finest moments.

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Now it all makes sense😎

"Kanye West makes products. He's gonna put his product out, he wants his product to sell. I don't take things ... I would not give seriousness to what he said in that way, okay? This guy's making products, he's making him some money, he's got probably a product coming out that he's selling ... he senses that people talking about him, they gonna buy his product. I don't look at it like, uh, it's not like Martin Luther King said it, or a person that knows, or is conscious of a certain thing, or it's not like, uh ... he's a pop figure, and I don't understand when pop figures became that empowered. I'm also not a big guy for critiquing popular figures. I'll critique the suit they had on or something, but ... he's entitled to whatever it is he wants to say: The quality of his thought is in the products he makes."

-- Wynton Marsalis on Kanye West

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I respect every point you make, and actually agree with all of your premises.

But I fail to see how they apply to Mr Dylan. Dylan (and I wish he'd chosen another stage name, such as Zimmerman (unlikely) or Jones (if he kept the Dylan forename; it would be very Welsh, don't you see ( like one of his namesakes, the Welsh poet,  inexplicably revered). Dylan remains a vital,  productive performer, unlike the performers you undboubtedly have in mind, although I have no idea why., in spite of the vocal deficits almost everyone observed,  Dylan remains not merely productive but has made himself the richest musician/lyricist in the world if not in human terms then, surpassing even Herbert von Karajan, the aged former Nazi who at the time,of his death was worth a cool zillion. Even in your premises, that should be worth something).

PS: I was reflecting upon the great big improvements in the WWW,, especially with the laggard (and niggardly) unlikely improvements in mail-based VM systems, introduced by IBM in 1964 and still going strong at the time I had to bid it a disconsolate farewell, by an ever-improving but step-sister IBM, which has an always ghastly, expanding reputation for screwing shit up, mostly by catering to its least-important (i.e., important constituents which aren't major financial institutions.) 

Those mailing systems/apps were still roaring forward at the time I had reluctantly to bid it a yearning farewell in 2003, when I Ieft American University behind in 2003 three years later. I was able to retain my happy 23 years, although I had already left the green pastures for the ghastly small town of Wilson NC, my bank having stupidly departed its VM mailing system to sell out to a major regional bank in North Carolina, whose name I do not speak but which you are sure to recognize, and probably bank at..  Mmmm, it was very good for the short-sighted shareholders.

PSS I've returned to this forum, as an ever evolving community of once great z/architecture critics. Is the current membership apathetic, or merely uninterested in contentious areas of philosophy, except for the great contributors Don and Al Dente, who himself went away for a long mile, also, I think, out of inescapable real-world tension, to work unfortunately for an aging virulent anti-union young fellow named Mackey, who has himself, unfortunately,' just  sold out to a powerful, the richest and most powerful , now currently the most power guy in the world.  Guy named Bezos, who has inexplicably also sold out to the horribly powerful daily, the Washington Post, whose editorial views  members of the largely sile how current,  the community here woefully now meek? No, now  how provocative I grow, not a peep.  Punkt, schluss!

Johnny,, we hardly knew ye!. When will you proudly come marching home? I, for one, miss your clear prose, so beautifully expressed!  Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?

where have you gone? 

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I grew up with a family that listed to Dylan.  We had inside jokes about songs.  We saw him in a very small space at the Calvert Marine Museum once, which was amazing and other times in big venues.  I missed a lot of the prior discussion, but I think my favorite songs are more poetry than songs: Desolation Row, Hurricane, and Last Thoughts on Woodie Guthrie.  Maybe Boots of Spanish Leather, too.  Certain lyrics would just last with me a while.

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I happened to inadvertently listen to Dylan the other day.  I was listening to the entire CD (yes--CD) version of the Band's last concert:  The Last Waltz, played on Thanksgiving in 1976.   Dylan, along with other well known musicians, performed at this last epic Band concert, that became a well received film, filmed by Martin Scorsese.  I simply haven't listened to the entire concert for a very long time.  Meanwhile I often listen to the version of The Weight, from that album (not performed at the concert but later added with The Band and the Staples Singers).  IMHO the greatest version of this epic song

Anyway Dylan performs on several songs in the concert, including two versions of Baby Let Me Follow You Down.  That is an old folk song.  Back in '61 as part of Dylan's first album, Bob Dylan, Dylan attributes the song to Rick von Schmidt, a Boston based folk singer.  In my mind the 1976 version on The Band album is horrific Dylan.  As I was listening to Dylan I was thinking--"that is horrible"--"sounds like the worst "singer" I can think of--me".  Just horrible.   On the other hand the 1961 version on Dylan's first album is folksy pretty.  It is so representative of so much folk music of an earlier era and music that was part of the early influences on Dylan.  Possibly these old folk songs are not meant to be played with electric instruments. OTOH it could just be that Dylan's voice had deteriorated.  Here is a prettier version of the song by Dylan from his 1961 recording:

Aside:   If you wish to listen to another old folksy influence on Dylan listen to Dave van Ronk.  (for some obviously simplistic reason I remember von Schmidt and van Ronk :D ).  Dave van Ronk had a gravelly often non musical voice, which was nevertheless spiritually suited to folk and produced some beautiful folksy pieces.

Here is  a cute piece, which catches van Ronk in his full throated gravellyness:  

Now here is a folksy masterpiece evidently from the mid '60's.   Dave van Ronk, and his group perform Clouds or Both Sides Now, written by Joni Mitchell.  Van Ronk's voice would never be described as musically outstanding....but it fit so well into the folk music genre and was capable of evoking all sorts of emotions from those who favor this genre. 

 

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