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The Golden State Warriors (1971-), Western Conference, Pacific Division - 2015-2016's Record the NBA's All-Time Best at 73-9


DonRocks

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A little truism about sports:  Every year there is a new "greatest".    Which actually brings to mind one of the better comments about sports via Super Bowl 5 & 6 Dallas Cowboys running back star, Duane Thomas.  Thomas wouldn't speak to the press all season.  He did speak up a bit before  Super Bowl 6  with this comment:

Quote

"If it's the ultimate game, how come they're playing it again next year?"

Anyway, this year in the NBA Western division finals Golden State will be taking on the Houston Rockets.  The Rockets had a better regular season record, will host the first two games and if the series goes to 7 games they will have the advantage, playing at home.

The Houston Rockets had a phenomenal season with the best regular season record, destroyed teams, unleashed a unique and advanced modern day offense, fueled by one of the fantastic offensive stars in the game in James Harden, and have, as a team, been obsessed with beating the Warriors

The series feels more like a finals than a division championship.  These two teams have dominated the league this season.  They have incredible offenses and they do play tough defense.  Between their styles and their stars they are impossible to defend. 

What is interesting they both have historically powerful offenses but they play the game with completely different styles

I've been looking forward to this series.  It seems to me like this years version of "basketball greatest".  I can't pick em and I wonder who will be next years version of the greatest.

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Anyone who thinks the Warriors play team basketball is wrong - championship NBA basketball is no longer a team game; it's a bunch of guys, running around behind the 3-point arc, trying to get free for a jumper. The Warriors happen to do this better than any other team ever has - if they didn't shoot so well, they wouldn't be winning so much. The 3-point shot has killed team basketball.

Anyone who thinks *baseball* is (or ever has been) a team sport is also wrong - it's a bunch of individuals, performing to the best of their abilities. There are exceptions (the communication between catcher and pitcher, hitting to the opposite field, the shortstop throwing to the first baseman <cough>, etc.), but great teams have always been comprised of great individuals - don't mention Moneyball; there's a reason the Yankees have won so much: They've bought the best players.

This is what the two sports have (d)evolved into. I'm not saying it's "right" or "wrong"; I'm merely stating my observations of the way things are.

Meh, there's always volleyball.

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1 hour ago, funkyfood said:

Strongly disagree about your view of Warriors basketball.  The Rockets, on the other hand...

Let's watch a film of one of their games sometime, and we can share our thoughts. Personally, I can watch one game, ten times, by watching one (and only one) position each-and-every game (the first time), then doing it again (the second time), etc. etc.

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10 hours ago, DonRocks said:

Anyone who thinks the Warriors play team basketball is wrong - championship NBA basketball is no longer a team game; it's a bunch of guys, running around behind the 3-point arc, trying to get free for a jumper. The Warriors happen to do this better than any other team ever has - if they didn't shoot so well, they wouldn't be winning so much. The 3-point shot has killed team basketball.

Anyone who thinks *baseball* is (or ever has been) a team sport is also wrong - it's a bunch of individuals, performing to the best of their abilities. There are exceptions (the communication between catcher and pitcher, hitting to the opposite field, the shortstop throwing to the first baseman <cough>, etc.), but great teams have always been comprised of great individuals - don't mention Moneyball; there's a reason the Yankees have won so much: They've bought the best players.

This is what the two sports have (d)evolved into. I'm not saying it's "right" or "wrong"; I'm merely stating my observations of the way things are.

Meh, there's always volleyball.

Basketball is a sport that has for decades highlighted both individual ball AND team play. They are and can be evident simultaneously.  

The volume of 3 pt shots combined with a current loss of highly skilled big men operating down low with post moves has changed the look more dramatically though some young skilled big men with possibly more on the way may change that perception. 

I find watching the intricacies and the team element difficult to catch with one view during the game.  It moves at high speed.  I only observe it through replay and highlights.  Specifically off the ball screens  that free players like Korver for Cleveland or Redick for Philadelphia for timely pass and shoot 3 pointers are great examples of intricate team play finished off with a very timely pass and shot.

I rarely catch those plays in development but only see the final pass and shot.  That is what replay is for.

Finally team sports such as soccer, basketball, football, hockey etc are all focused on creating open spaces for stars to perform their individualistic magic.  

(I should know, I was a lifelong screener). :)

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1 hour ago, DaveO said:

I find watching the intricacies and the team element difficult to catch with one view during the game.  It moves at high speed.  I only observe it through replay and highlights.  Specifically off the ball screens  that free players like Korver for Cleveland or Redick for Philadelphia for timely pass and shoot 3 pointers are great examples of intricate team play finished off with a very timely pass and shot.

I rarely catch those plays in development but only see the final pass and shot.  That is what replay is for.

Finally team sports such as soccer, basketball, football, hockey etc are all focused on creating open spaces for stars to perform their individualistic magic.  

(I should know, I was a lifelong screener). :)

This is absolutely right.  The Warriors set way more off-ball screens than any other NBA team.  That takes serious effort, misdirection, and proper spacing.  Their open threes don't just happen out of nowhere.  Modern-day NBA defenses are remarkably sophisticated -- it just so happens that the Warriors and Rockets, primarily known for their offenses, are also at the forefront of how to fight back against the prevalence of pick-and-roll through anticipatory switches.

Notable quote from Steve Kerr in the latter article:  "You have to cover more ground than ever before. It’s amazing: Sometimes I’ll turn on the classic sports channel and find Lakers-Celtics games from the 1980s — some of the best games ever — and the game is played in this tiny little radius. Now it’s way out on the perimeter . . . Every possession was, you dump it into the post, a double comes, and you might see six or eight threes taken in a game. But everything was different. The rules were different. The talent is different. Very few low-post players anymore. The league’s adapted. Coaches have adapted. Things are ever-changing. And you have to change along with that."

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On 5/21/2018 at 10:20 AM, silentbob said:

Notable quote from Steve Kerr in the latter article:  "You have to cover more ground than ever before. It’s amazing: Sometimes I’ll turn on the classic sports channel and find Lakers-Celtics games from the 1980s — some of the best games ever — and the game is played in this tiny little radius. Now it’s way out on the perimeter . . . Every possession was, you dump it into the post, a double comes, and you might see six or eight threes taken in a game. But everything was different. The rules were different. The talent is different. Very few low-post players anymore. The league’s adapted. Coaches have adapted. Things are ever-changing. And you have to change along with that."

I’ve watched those games.  They highlight just how much the court spacing has changed and how the game has spread out over a far larger area.  In the old game there were big visible picks by huge bodies  such as Unseld, that  freed up shooters.  Now there are picks everywhere with players going from left to right to be the recipients of passes for long distance shots.  It’s very different spacing all over the half court with the Warriors expanding the court the most because Curry can shoot effectively from further out than anyone else.  

That off ball screening isn’t new it’s just more pronounced.  20 years ago I watched  U Maryland perfect it over the 3 years that led to their national championship team with Juan Dixon getting off ball screens and curling/breaking into the open to get timely passes from fellow guard Steve Blake.   They practiced it for three years.

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On 5/20/2018 at 9:50 PM, DonRocks said:

Anyone who thinks the Warriors play team basketball is wrong - championship NBA basketball is no longer a team game; it's a bunch of guys, running around behind the 3-point arc, trying to get free for a jumper. The Warriors happen to do this better than any other team ever has - if they didn't shoot so well, they wouldn't be winning so much. The 3-point shot has killed team basketball.

Anyone who thinks *baseball* is (or ever has been) a team sport is also wrong - it's a bunch of individuals, performing to the best of their abilities. There are exceptions (the communication between catcher and pitcher, hitting to the opposite field, the shortstop throwing to the first baseman <cough>, etc.), but great teams have always been comprised of great individuals - don't mention Moneyball; there's a reason the Yankees have won so much: They've bought the best players.

This is what the two sports have (d)evolved into. I'm not saying it's "right" or "wrong"; I'm merely stating my observations of the way things are.

Meh, there's always volleyball.

Fast moving team sports are “difficult” to watch IF one is trying to take in the entire picture of all players and of “strategy” or the team component of the game.

At least that is my perspective and I believe it’s evident from my posts that I’ve been watching (and used to play) for decades.  I simply can’t follow everything on TV and at times less, at other times more, when watching in person.  The field or court or rink is too large with too many players making too many moves at high speed to follow everything.  

How do players get open for the oft used “catch and shoot”. Ie Klay Thompson etc.  I almost never see it until there is replay.  Like most my eyes are on the ball not the other 4 players let alone players screening and cutting on the opposite side of the court.  That is where replay describes the intricacies of teamwork.  Without replay I’d miss all of that.  

Another example is the video above provided by @funkyfood.  The offense didn’t have the old traditional post man, the defenders were all between the ball and man, but all leaving distance between them and the man they were covering, all watching both the ball and their man, as the drive started one defender closed on the closest most obvious recipient of a pass and 3 shifted to cover the ultimate drive. 

COMPLEX!  I can’t follow all that without multiple watching of replay.  Can anyone else??

Finally better analysts describe the games better.  @weezy credited Caps announcer Alan May.  He was a grinder as a player and ex Cap.  He had to know all the team elements to be any good— and he articulates them making the game more comprehensible.  Analysts like him in any sport enhance appreciation of what is going on.

Its fun to watch and to be a fan of a winning team or fave player.  It’s more involved to take in all the other elements of play.

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Watching Game 4 of the Championships now, with 1:15 left in the 2nd quarter ...

I reiterate my claim that Golden State is mainly a bunch of mega-shooters scattering to get open for 3-pointers. Yes, there are picks, but there were picks in the 1940s - I'm not impressed by this in the least.

And this isn't a knock against Golden State; it's a knock against how utterly *boring* the NBA has become (I acknowledge that this is my own personal opinion).

I'm losing interest in the NBA - not because Golden State is *so* much better than everyone else (they are, and all good dramas need a villain), but because there are too many 3-point shots taken, and too much reliance on the 3-pointer.

I used to *love* long-distance shots - they were so novel and exciting; now, they're Required Reading, and you just know that an entire generation of kids is growing up learning to shoot 3-pointers, at the expense of other basic skills.

The NBA needs to move the 3-point line back by a foot (which, admittedly, wouldn't leave much room on the sides. so it can't be a universal foot), but the entire nature of the game has changed. The sport I grew up loving is no longer the same sport - that doesn't make it "better," or "worse"; it simply makes it less appealing to me.

Fake a drive, kick it out, launch a bomb ... set a pick, shooter gets open, launch a bomb ... stutter dribble, step back, launch a bomb.

The 3-point shot was introduced, with complete disregard for the future, as a novelty. Now, the game is played largely outside the 3-point arc. This is not a positive change - imagine the first shooting savant who can hurl in 40% of his shots from mid-court - does anyone think something like this isn't coming in the next twenty years?

Are you sure? <--- Watch the video in the post.

Obviously, tens-of-millions of people most likely disagree. A couple of these posts probably should be split into a separate thread, because I'm certainly not knocking Golden State - they took the rules, and built a championship team around them.

---

Congratulations in advance to all Warriors fans for their 2017-2018 championship - they absolutely deserve it. And from what I see, I'm no longer sure that LeBron James is going to win the MVP award (I thought he would win it in a losing effort, but I think it's going to go to a Warrior - if Cleveland had taken Golden State to 6 or 7 games, then maybe, but if it's a 4-game sweep, I just don't see James winning).

Compare the excitement level of this game to the Capitals' game last night.

What if ... Chris Paul hadn't gotten injured? 

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Well..a couple of years have passed a few things have changed....and this aint your '15-'16 all time best NBA regular season team.  This year's version of the Warriors are terrible.  REALLY TERRIBLE.  Curry out with an injury for a good part of the season, Durant now signed to play for a different team, Klay Thompson out all or almost all of the season, Green currently injured and out, Iguadala no longer playing for the Warriors.  Even their big signing this year: Deangelo Russell is out with injury.  This most definitely is not the team with the greatest record in NBA history.

Last night they lost a little regular season game.  Against the Dallas Mavs, currently not the best team in the league, but one with a winning record and high hopes.  Meanwhile with that loss the Warriors are a miserable 3-13.  Worst record in the West, worse than the Wizards, worse than the sad-sack Knicks.  The Warriors have plummeted from ALL-TIME BEST to current worst. 

They didn't just lose--they were crushed.  In the first period and it only got worse.  142-94.  A complete smack down.  Never close.  Never a chance. 

When the season started and predictions were being made most of the experts suggested the Warriors would be real bad.  I silently thought they would be competitive and in the playoffs.

I was wrong.  Big dead wrong.    Well for the time being so much for what was once amazing Warrior basketball.  

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13 hours ago, DaveO said:

I was wrong.  Big dead wrong.    

Along with every other person in the world - nobody could have possibly foreseen this. I'm still not exactly sure of the timeline of disasters, and how this all happened.

Last night in the first quarter, Luka Dončić out-scored, out-rebounded, and out-assisted the entire Warriors team in the first quarter. That's just nuts.

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8 hours ago, DonRocks said:

Along with every other person in the world - nobody could have possibly foreseen this. I'm still not exactly sure of the timeline of disasters, and how this all happened.

Last night in the first quarter, Luka Dončić out-scored, out-rebounded, and out-assisted the entire Warriors team in the first quarter. That's just nuts.

I believe the published prognosticators had them ranked around the bottom of the playoff teams (i.e.  7th or 8th) or out of the playoffs.  I had them higher.  Of course I thought Curry, Green and Russell would be playing. 

In any case the Warriors are starting a team of unknowns and undeveloped players.  They do stink it up right now.

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