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"Owning" Your Businesses on Google - Not As Difficult As It Used To Be, And A *Very* Wise Thing To Do


RoastMonkey

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Fermat: Best to do it yourself. If manager leaves later he might leave with that contact info. It's easy and quick to do

I also reported it as open as should others....but you should claim it direct as Joel suggested

And Google confirmed the edit Drift is open. And if others do so it will change in Google probably tomorrow or today if reviewers work on Sunday's. But you should claim the listing rather than an employee. Not a huge huge deal but if and when the manager leaves it could be a problem for point of contact. It's easy to do. Follow their directions.

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Fermat: Best to do it yourself. If manager leaves later he might leave with that contact info. It's easy and quick to do

I also reported it as open as should others....but you should claim it direct as Joel suggested

And Google confirmed the edit Drift is open. And if others do so it will change in Google probably tomorrow or today if reviewers work on Sunday's. But you should claim the listing rather than an employee. Not a huge huge deal but if and when the manager leaves it could be a problem for point of contact. It's easy to do. Follow their directions.

This sounds like really good advice.

And Joel, thank you for looking out for one of your own.

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Ferhat:  Here are some benefits to claiming the listing:

(this is for Ferhat, but its useful for other restaurants and local businesses)

1.  you can upload pictures, rather than have anyone's good or bad pictures be uploaded.   FYI, when uploading check out how they show.  You can control the visual impact via cropping, which can make a big visual difference.

2.  You can respond to reviews in google....good and bad.

3.  you can choose categories, which can have a significant impact on how well your restaurant shows for various search terms in google.

4.  You can change and update your hours of operation......and other benefits.

5.  Currently a verified owner is the strongest source of data in google.

I've been working on this "stuff" for over 10 years.  Ever since google started google maps and set up a system for small businesses there have been endless problems with the information that is shown and getting it corrected.   Their systems are far better today and in the last few years but they are still prone to errors and mistakes.   One of the issues that continues to haunt some businesses is that an ex employee or a "now disgruntled" ex employee has control of the "claimed listing".   It is why you should do it yourself.  Google's systems for correcting this are better but not fullproof.    Do it with a gmail account.  You can give access to that account to an employee but you should control it and ensure that access via  a cell phone.  It gives you control and gives them access to you to correct bad mistakes.

BTW:  I reported the erroneous "closed message via a 2nd gmail address.   One way to hasten correction is to crowd source it.  But the best way is to claim the listing.  You can do it at night, at home etc.  Its simple.   Here is the general link to the process but I'd do it off the picture of the box that Joel provided.  That "box" is called the google knowledge box.

One other thing:   Google has not associated the website and url with the brick and mortar business to date, or made a strong association.  One can tell that by searching for your business by name in google   ie...something like this....."Drift on 7th, DC".   If google had made a strong connection...by you having claimed the listing...your url would show first in their results, rather than the news stories and other items that rank over your website.

If you are going to share the "management of a listing" with an email set up a separate gmail acct for the business...something like DriftonSEVENTH@gmail, or anything you choose.   That way employees don't have access to your email.

Once you claim the listing your url will almost assuredly pop up first for searches by name.   (claiming is that important these days).

BTW:   Once you claim the listing in google also claim it in bing.  The process is similar.  

Take the time to carefully add categories.  They are important for visbility.  Restaurant and Seafood are no brainers but there could be other helpful categories.  you can add categories later...but definitely do restaurant and seafood now.  There are STILL an enormous number of searches in google for things like "restaurants DC", "restaurants Shaw", "seafood restaurants DC" etc with seafood being a major subcategory.

Lets see, within the last couple of months Dino's was reported "closed" in google.  He got FB fans to report it in google and it changed within a day.

One other thing I noticed...google is mixed up between the connection to the location between Fishnet and Drift on 7th.  You can see that via the google reviews.which are old fishnet reviews....  Ultimately those can also be changed although its a more cumbersome process

As long as you are "claiming listings", claim it in Yelp, outside of the two big search engines that is the site(directory) which will be viewed the most by likely visitors and diners.  You want that updated also. (I haven't looked up Drift on Yelp)

Good luck.   But seriously, claim the listing yourself.  If you don't want to be responsible for handling and managing it...give access to that gmail acct and managing the listing to an employee...but make sure you have control.

Its really easy.  Thank goodness.  It hasn't always been easy.

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I just googled the restaurant and it's listed as open today, so something worked.

I looked it up one place and saw it was claimed!!!!   Fast and good work, Ferhat.   Let those diners know you are open!!!!!!    :D

(my gut is that your url will show first in search rankings when one google's it by name in a day or 3.)...hopefully sooner.  (attractive website imho)

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Danged google is again showing Drift on 7th as closed again today.  If you google drift on 7th and see the box with that message...click on it and report that the restaurant is open.  They are...and they are aware of this...but help them.

I went to a separate source about google maps and small businesses and noted that someone with a gmail acct (I suspect its one person) reported dino's closed in early Jan, and the same "acct" is reporting drift closed.  I smell a rat.

Hopefully this gets fixed ASAP.

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Ferhat:  Google is complicated.   With regard to these records and information there is a left hand and right hand and they don't always know what they are doing.  Assuming "claiming the listing" as Joel first suggested, and I agreed is the right hand....it appears the left hand, something called google map maker, has created the "closed signals" and when they show instead of stating drift is closed ..they show fishnet is closed....when someone is searching for drift.   Terrible signal.   I sent you an email pointing to a discussion that should resolve this closing issue.

I added new information in map maker about drift on 7th.  It came off your web site.  You can adjust it, fix it, update it, whatever.   Hopefully this will end the problem with the recurring closed signals in google.

Very frustrating.  I lived through these kinds of misinformation.  Very very frustrating to say the least.

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[Thank you to both Joel Finkelstein (detecting the problem) and DaveO (helping to find a solution) for helping Drift on 7th take ownership of their business on Google Maps. The conversation applies to all businesses, and is both general enough and important enough to have its own thread in the News and Media Forum. All the posts relating to this can now be found here, and again, thank you to both Joel and Dave for taking the time to help out their fellow man without asking for anything in return.]

Someone probably needs to talk to Google about the placement of Drift when you do a search. When you search for "Drift on 7th" it comes up, but it's the 9th listing on the page! On my computer, it was the very last one on the first page, and this is what the "preview" on the google page says:

Drift on 7th

drifton7th.com/

A description for this result is not available because of this site's robots.txt "“ learn more.

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Just so you know.  I hunted down where the recurring closed issue could be occurring.  I think I found the answer and started the process to recovery...at least on that google knowledge box, which shows prominently in both mobile and desktop.

I'd actually change the title of this thread Don.  Getting information fixed is easier and more systemic since around 2011 or so...but its still quite complicated and ill described, as is the case with Ferhat and Drifton7th.  I wouldn't characterize it as "easier" per se.  Easier would be a comparison with what then was "virtually impossible" ....it was that bad in the prior decade.

Ferhat's situation has fallen into a more complicated scenario wherein his business record is getting confused with an old record.  I can only say that the ways to rectify those issues have changed innumerably in the decade plus that google maps has been around.  Its still complex and that which might have worked in 2013, and 2014 don't necessarily work now.

For more info on how this system has lurched around over the past decade there was a recent article in the NYTimes business section from Jan 31, 2016.  Its an old story.  The Times has a story like it in 2009 I believe...and the issues predate that.  While the story focuses on local locksmiths the problems hit all types of local businesses.  In fact I emailed the drift situation status to one of the knowledgeable  people referenced in that article.  We've corresponded and spoke over some years.

Its a crazy crazy algo driven system.

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Someone probably needs to talk to Google about the placement of Drift when you do a search. When you search for "Drift on 7th" it comes up, but it's the 9th listing on the page! On my computer, it was the very last one on the first page, and this is what the "preview" on the google page says:

Drift on 7th

drifton7th.com/

A description for this result is not available because of this site's robots.txt "“ learn more.

I think there is a solution to that problem in progress.

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Over the last 10 years one of my biggest pet peeves has been how Google misrepresents information about a business in its search results.   The consequences can kill a business.  For those local businesses that are dependent on search for visibility in the public when google makes a mistake the impact is potentially deadly.  Sometimes the impact is not that severe, sometimes, when more reliant on search results it is simply crushing.

Since 3/3/16 evidently Drift on 7th has been suffering somewhat from these type problems.  I've tried to help.  I've become intimately familiar with many of the issues, and the fixes that have worked from time to time.  Initially these mistakes hit the businesses that we operate.  When the information was correctly shown things were great.  When incorrectly shown things were horrible.  These issues have popped up since around 2006 when google moved its google map results into the first page of google results.

In that time I've learned a good bit, been somewhat of an "expert", helped some businesses get out of these issues, and experienced the incredible variety of ways google has changed its systems vis a vis portraying information about local small businesses.  In effect current google is the hard copy yellow pages that helped consumers find businesses in pre web days....only its far more powerful, has more reach, is used more often.  Its a monopoly for search.

From my perspective the most memorable incident occurred with a business in a city outside of DC.  Some of its location data was being shown incorrectly.  Call it Leo's Tulsa Heath Spa (Leo's).  It was only showing up erroneously in google.   Leo's would get calls from prospective customers.  The consumers would be at the wrong address far away and would complain to Leo's.  Leo's website had the correct info...but there was a prominent "google box" of info.  That had the wrong address.  People were being misdirected.  Those lost souls would go to the wrong address and then call Leo's and complain.  It wasn't Leo's fault.  The google information was bad/erroneous.   We (Leo's and I) couldn't find where the bad information was coming from and how to eliminate it.

I did manage to get Google's attention to the matter.  A representative told us they'd get right back on it.

9 months later they got back to us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Nine months!!!!!!!  People were getting pregnant and having babies in nine months.  People were getting ill and passing away.  Google was simply a black box that wouldn't respond and nobody could make it accountable.

Some of us "helpers" found where the information was coming from for this business and others likewise impacted.  We published the issue.  We went directly to google and put it in a format wherein the larger public and media could see the issues and the problems.  Google responded to Leo's.  Google fixed the algorithmic issue that was causing the problem for Leo's and many others.

Nine months stuck in my mind. The time it takes to get pregnant and have a baby. Frankly, they didn't act until a "fix" or a revelation of the problem went to the press.   I'd have to go back to my old notes.  It was around 2007-2009.

It has been that way since around 2006 and the non accountability remains in effect to this day.  Its what is causing the problem with Drift on 7th since 3/3/16 on and off through today 3/10/16.

That is my rant.  Its a version that doesn't include the hundreds of other such examples over the years.  Very frustrating.

Now today....there are "better" methods for getting one's critical contact information shown.  Google has a "partial" customer service level.   But its not full proof.  Also they change the way they do things and how information can be updated, corrected, and verified.  They have made consistent changes on these systems for years.  Its a full time job to just stay on top of their changes.

Regardless of the rant...its valuable to "claim" one's listing...for dozens of reasons.  Most of the time today the google systems work pretty well.  Sometimes they don't as in the case of Drift.   One thing that hasn't changed is how google slips accountability.  Very frustrating.

Rant over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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thank you all for the great help and support, especially DaveO!

Google has been playing us, no question about that. Today I was able to get them on the phone, have the business show open again but as `Fishnet`. they will mail a verification code `the third one` and once that is put in, the whole thing will change to Drift.

lets wait and see!

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Great!!! Watch your mail like a hawk.  The old snail method was via postcards.  If you don't get one in a few days, call and complain.  Ask for a phone verification.  Normally when one does get the mail verification and responds the correction occurs quickly.

Good luck.

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Really great thread, amazing community helping each other out.  Let me know if you have further issues, I went to high school with Brin so I can call him up and make him fix it.  haha, not really, on the latter part of that.

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Really great thread, amazing community helping each other out.  Let me know if you have further issues, I went to high school with Brin so I can call him up and make him fix it.  haha, not really, on the latter part of that.

ooooh....I used to have some "ins" there....but way way way way...and a lot more ways below that level.   I doubt I have any now.   I know others with some "ins".   but boy they are a tough nut to crack.   back in the day one of the "helpers" figured out how to make their "group" assigned to dealing with these local business issues jump to and respond.  .....and his method worked.   (those little "tricks" no longer applicable)

We were studying the issues....and we were studying how to get them to respond...in an environment where they never responded.  What a trip.  LOL

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As of today, 3/12/16 Google knowledge box is still showing the business as Fishnet, albeit the Permanently Closed Sign has been removed.   From a business perspective that is better....but absolutely not ideal.  Per some data it appears the Permanently Closed signs first went up on 3/3 went down on 3/6 and have been on and off since then.

Meanwhile, Bing, Apple Maps and Yelp all have the data correct showing the business as Drift on 7th.   (I bet all that data came through Yelp).   Unfortunately Google is the dominant monopoly controller of search.

Getting that data up correctly is vital for search and the business.  Its unfortunate Google is such a brutally difficult entity, who for some reason escapes scrutiny and responsibility for its mistakes and in this case slowness to correct its own crap data.

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On Thursday 3/17 Google had Drift's information up correctly and prominently in the Google Knowledge Box....but cripes on Friday it was messed up again; and today, Saturday there is the big box for Fishnet with the Closed Sign.   I have a huge burr up my butt for these google errors and their inability to fix them and more significantly their cavalier attitude and complete inability to take responsibility.

From years of working on that stuff....those google mistakes just "crush" businesses.  How much???  No one can tell for sure...but since google is the overwhelming monopoly on search....it usually has a terrible effect.   And boy I've seen it in spades.

So I went over there to chat with Ferhat...and more relevantly here...had the mussels dish that I'd heard was excellent.  And it is!!!!!   Plump, plentiful, tasty mussels.  A terrific broth/sauce....spicy with red curry, garlic, corn...nice thickness with a  splendid taste.   Kept asking for and getting extra bread to sop up every last drop....it was that tasty.   A relative steal at $17 in my experience.  Had a nice riesling and the banana split dessert...but those mussels...oooh la la.   A well recommended dish.

Back to that google problem...it simply screws businesses.  Currently both Apple Maps and Yelp have the information on Drift correct and have had it correct for at least 2 weeks.  Its not rocket science for the big internet sources of info.  Its just that google has been completely uncaring and held blameless for years.  Tsk tsk.

Two ways to get it cleaned up:  A) get a major media source such as the Washington Post or NYTimes to blast the article and shame google. B)  B.)  The other way is when the functionaries at google can't clean this thing up to go up through the ranks.   I've managed or participated in getting both those actions but they are hard and really should not be required.   Google is equivalent to a utility as it relates to "search".   There should be accountable customer service.  There still isn't.

Back to the mussels.  An excellent dish!!!!

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This is what shows up on my Chromebook when I perform a Google Search for Drift on 7th:

post-2-0-39101200-1458650331_thumb.png

If there's anything we, the members, can do to barnstorm Google, someone tell us what to do. There must be some central repository of business records that Google checks (I doubt it's the Google cars that are responsible for this - I can't remember if Dave mentioned this upthread, but I'm wondering if Ferhat needs to update whatever that central repository is). Has the legal business name changed, or just the signage?

Perhaps just as importantly, I cannot urge strongly enough to put a "Menu" tab on the top of your home page:

post-2-0-26552300-1458650856_thumb.png

I looked around for 5-10 seconds before I noticed "See What's Cookin'" down below - you can have that there, but there also needs to be a plain vanilla Menu tab on the top of the page. It's a nice-looking website, btw, but that one omission will really hurt you. If your menu changes often, I would make it so you only need to update one place, and have all tabs and links point to that one place - minimize your upkeep.

It's also important to have your drinks menu online, and to have prices next to each dish (right now there are none). Also, have someone copy-edit the entire menu (right now, for example, it says "tepenade" which may be an Italian variant, but it's more commonly spelled "tapenade"). I can do this in 20 minutes if you want me to. If it was me, I would have only one copy of the menu - the real thing - and not have separate entries in a different area - too much maintenance. Go ahead and do it now to get it out of the way and finished.

My guess is that nobody is going to look at this:

post-2-0-28881600-1458651669_thumb.png

and that this .pdf version takes virtually no time to load, and it much more appealing:

post-2-0-92861400-1458651781_thumb.png

Looking at the website, there are so many things I'd do differently. I'll be happy to sketch out a redesign that won't take very long to implement - you can buy me a beer or something. You're not going to have time to maintain a chef's blog, and besides, you can have your own blog here. :) (We actually have that capability, and that perk is available to any of our members who don't want the hassles of maintaining their own blog software - it doesn't even need to be about food).

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This is what shows up on my Chromebook when I perform a Google Search for Drift on 7th:

attachicon.gifScreenshot 2016-03-22 at 08.37.39.png

If there's anything we, the members, can do to barnstorm Google, someone tell us what to do. There must be some central repository of business records that Google checks (I doubt it's the Google cars that are responsible for this - I can't remember if Dave mentioned this upthread, but I'm wondering if Ferhat needs to update whatever that central repository is). Has the legal business name changed, or just the signage?

Ferhat and his group are facing a "package of problems" on this "box" that keeps showing up with Fishnet.  Because they "rebranded" the business, there a variety of "issues" with getting strong Google visibility.  It appears everything that has been done to try and correct it, has triggered crappy Google algorithmic and systemic responses.  Frankly its not that difficult to get it right.  Yelp and Apple Maps have the correct info right now and for several weeks.

I've been dealing with these things for over 12 years, and with the google maps stuff for about 8 years.  Google has a customer unfriendly, non direct "customer service" application that often screws up.  I just read an article by someone I know who has also been dealing with these issues for a similar period of time.  He more or less addressed some of the things Ferhat is facing.  He didn't lay out an easy systemic solution.

In the past I've found the route to correction is usually easiest or best through direct intervention at Google.  I've suggested to Ferhat a way to do so.  A second way to get these things corrected is if a major media source wrote it up in an article.  It would have to be something like the NYTimes, the Washington Post or a major tech journal with widespread distribution and readership.  When google is embarrassed in the media in this way they bypass all their "systems" and just correct things.

Perhaps just as importantly, I cannot urge strongly enough to put a "Menu" tab on the top of your home page:

attachicon.gifScreenshot 2016-03-22 at 08.44.45.png

I looked around for 5-10 seconds before I noticed "See What's Cookin'" down below - you can have that there, but there also needs to be a plain vanilla Menu tab on the top of the page. It's a nice-looking website, btw, but that one omission will really hurt you. If your menu changes often, I would make it so you only need to update one place, and have all tabs and links point to that one place - minimize your upkeep.

It's also important to have your drinks menu online, and to have prices next to each dish (right now there are none). Also, have someone copy-edit the entire menu (right now, for example, it says "tepenade" which may be an Italian variant, but it's more commonly spelled "tapenade"). I can do this in 20 minutes if you want me to. If it was me, I would have only one copy of the menu - the real thing - and not have separate entries in a different area - too much maintenance. Go ahead and do it now to get it out of the way and finished.

My guess is that nobody is going to look at this:

attachicon.gifScreenshot 2016-03-22 at 09.00.18.png

and that this .pdf version takes virtually no time to load, and it much more appealing:

attachicon.gifScreenshot 2016-03-22 at 09.02.37.png

Looking at the website, there are so many things I'd do differently. I'll be happy to sketch out a redesign that won't take very long to implement - you can buy me a beer or something. You're not going to have time to maintain a chef's blog, and besides, you can have your own blog here. :) (We actually have that capability, and that perk is available to any of our members who don't want the hassles of maintaining their own blog software - it doesn't even need to be about food).

Website owners have to figure out how to best present their info on the web.  Besides what is or isn't on the site...their is a general visibility issue.  Its been noted either upthread and/or in the review thread.  Ferhat and his team are aware of it.  Hopefully they get that fixed very soon.  That would help.

My experience is that in a very general sense its helpful to website owners to get outside opinions on their sites.  In fact I think having a site reviewed by "customer types" before it goes public is a helpful practice.  I personally like pricing on a restaurant menu and I know that it is relatively easy to put the menu on the site, have it subject to changes that the owner has access to.  Its not rocket science and with a little practice it becomes easy.  I also like a menu on separate web pages and not loaded as a pdf.  Over time having the menu as content on the site and NOT as a downloadable pdf will offer any number of advantages to a business and website owner.

Funny thing about getting outside viewership and comments on a website.  Earlier today I called someone I know.  Something screwed up on their website.  I got the partner on the phone, who really doesn't know me.  His first reaction to my comment was a bit negative..but we discussed further, he went to the site and saw the problem, and then thanked me.  He'll fix the mess up.  I know we run a group of sites for different businesses.  Invariably its outsiders who find the mistakes we've made.

Anyway good luck to Ferhat.  All these issues are correctable.  Some take a bit more time.   But those google crack ups.  I think they need to have oversight from a bigger entity.  They should be held accountable for screwing up a business's visibility.  They really are a monopoly in search.   And to repeat...its not rocket science...Apple Maps and Yelp have had the correct info up the entire time google has messed it up.

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This is what shows up on my Chromebook when I perform a Google Search for Drift on 7th:

attachicon.gifScreenshot 2016-03-22 at 08.37.39.png

If there's anything we, the members, can do to barnstorm Google, someone tell us what to do. There must be some central repository of business records that Google checks (I doubt it's the Google cars that are responsible for this - I can't remember if Dave mentioned this upthread, but I'm wondering if Ferhat needs to update whatever that central repository is). Has the legal business name changed, or just the signage?

Perhaps just as importantly, I cannot urge strongly enough to put a "Menu" tab on the top of your home page:

attachicon.gifScreenshot 2016-03-22 at 08.44.45.png

I looked around for 5-10 seconds before I noticed "See What's Cookin'" down below - you can have that there, but there also needs to be a plain vanilla Menu tab on the top of the page. It's a nice-looking website, btw, but that one omission will really hurt you. If your menu changes often, I would make it so you only need to update one place, and have all tabs and links point to that one place - minimize your upkeep.

Don:  Either great instinct, assumption or you've studied this stuff.  There is a "central repository" of business data that google uses.  Currently though it is secondary to making direct solid contact with Google (G).   Currently G relies on its own direct contact with businesses and its internal algo's and systems above the "repository".  (It wasn't always this way.)   Somewhere the systems G has and the connection with Drift on 7th have broken down.  At this point I don't know where the breakdown has occurred and I'm not in the middle of this thing.  Unfortunately the breakdown could be occurring in more than one place within G's systems.  Fixing it does require dedicated effort to push the corrections above.    There is also the embarrassment route I've described above.  One has to find a journalist and media source with a large and significant enough following that they will post the story.  Again, not easy to do.

On the menu thing I completely agree with you, Don.  I'd always suggest having a menu in the body of the website and not as a pdf download.  I'd also use simple easy to define and understand words...like "menu".  Both site visitors and search engines understand that right away.  (cute descriptive language might work for part of the population but it won't necessarily work for the search engines and hence visibility and rankings)

Lastly based on some recent experiments were I a seafood restaurant, or a Thai restaurant, or a "specialty" restaurant of any category the content describing my menu...and some of the content on other pages on my site would reference and re reference the category...say seafood.

Traditionally high visibility was a function of links, and for small businesses and restaurants that "central repository".  More and more rankings and visibility are a function of written context.  With more and more experiments its ever more visible.

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Someone probably needs to talk to Google about the placement of Drift when you do a search. When you search for "Drift on 7th" it comes up, but it's the 9th listing on the page! On my computer, it was the very last one on the first page, and this is what the "preview" on the google page says:

Drift on 7th

drifton7th.com/

A description for this result is not available because of this site's robots.txt "“ learn more.

I see this is fixed now!! Bravo

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finally everything is corrected on google.

I do appreciate everyone`s help and support about this crazy issue. We were also able to update the Drift webpage with the direct menu tab and pricing on the menu.

Thanks again!

Wow:   That is progress.  Congrats.  Its virtually been a month.   Those "google guys" aint easy...that is for sure.   There is also a glitch there. and I forwarded it to Ferhat and his team....

Nice going!!!!

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Wow:   That is progress.  Congrats.  Its virtually been a month.   Those "google guys" aint easy...that is for sure.   There is also a glitch there. and I forwarded it to Ferhat and his team....

Nice going!!!!

50 minutes later and the glitch disappeared and the correct info is showing for a variation on the search by name.  Congrats to Ferhan!!!!

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It might be timely to give a quick update on this topic, specifically with an item that has been going public at least as recently as May 14th, and could effect certain businesses, restaurants etc.

First though I'd suggest changing the topic title to Claiming the business on Google (not owing the business).  Claiming is the nomenclature google uses and is the word a business operator will find throughout this process.

Here is an update...and it has some relevance and connection to the process Ferhat and Drift on 7th experienced; vis a vis the Google Knowledge Box situation....

That Knowledge Box is very visible.  On a mobile, which is used far more often for local searches such as restaurants, if one searches for a business(restaurant) by name or type (type ie seafood restaurants dc, Mexican restaurants Bethesda, etc)....Knowledge box information will show up above websites.  

Actually ads will show first, then the knowledge box...and then the websites.  Typically on a mobile ads dominate the mobile view.   But the knowledge box is far more prominent than the website.  The knowledge box is owned by google.  It might be all information provided by the business (and also edits made by the public), but make no mistake google controls it.

Here is the latest news first reported on May 14th in this article summarizing how google changed the knowledge box pictures for virtually ALL HOTELS all over the world  The find was made by a Search Engine Manager for a major hotel chain.  The change was sudden.  In the case of hotels virtually all pictures for all hotels changed to room pictures for the majority of searches  (ie a search for hotels Washington DC, hotels Ocean City) hotels or bed and breakfasts Lancaster, Pa, etc.)   OTOH if you search for a particular hotel by name various other pictures will show.   But the vast majority of searches for hotels are something like  "Hotels, city name".   

Additionally, as it relates to hotels Google has dramatically monetized this vertical industry.  Most of the pack of hotels you see, and if you go to the "more hotels" link...further hotels...will all be showing these pictures tied to booking rooms options.  The booking options are tied to a google payment process.  Google has worked its way into getting paid along with all the internet travel agents such as booking.com and all the "discount travel sites".

I pressed the person who first reported this.  He wouldn't or couldn't give hard data...but he did confirm that the change in pictures would probably assist google in generating more bookings through its processes wherein it makes money off the booking agencies.

But the change in pictures has gone beyond hotels to all industries

Subsequent to the change I noticed that in our businesses (non hotels/ non restaurants) I've seen the knowledge box pictures change and rotate or vary.  I've noticed 3 out of 10 days since the article.  Way too often.  The pictures are not the ones we chose.  They are pictures we've loaded up to the google my business account and/or were loaded to google by outsiders.  But they are not the pictures we chose to be shown all the time.   The article above references the issues, and it includes comments.  

For any particular business you might load a variety of pictures.  But you may not want all of them to be the highlight picture that is first shown to potential customers.  Hence problems.  Google gives the impression you control which picture highlights your business.   That is evidently no longer the case.

After seeing the changes I contacted google my business customer service.  I sent them screen shots of the pictures we had chosen to highlight our businesses and then other pictures google has been showing over the last 10 days.   There "supposedly" is a way to ensure you get the picture you want.  I knew this method but reapplied it with the direction of the customer service rep.  Later today I saw an "alternate photo".

Later I posed this question to a group of people who look for these types of issues all the time.  Here is the link to the discussion (you will have to be signed into a gmail account to see the discussion)   One person confirmed the same phenomena.  (I find this person to be reliable).  In his case he deleted pictures from his various groups of pictures per business and account.  He did not deem all the pictures suitable for being the main profile picture for a business.  I hope to hear from other commentators and observers over time.

My read on this is simply that the pictures in the knowledge box...and all elements in the knowledge box are google's domain.  A business might supply google with this data.  But the business doesn't control their usage.  Google does.  

Despite language that suggests the business controls this issue it appears that showing the pictures depends on google algos.  

Businesses Need to monitor these pictures

As referenced in the first linked article, these "profile pictures" are the ones searchers see most often while in google. Way too often they see these pictures and not the full value of all pictures on your website.  They'll often see knowledge box and call the business, go to OT...and might never see the website.  

The simple issue is that you want pictures to be portrayed that are a best "first image".  Not all pictures might meet that requirement.  Also the full "package of pictures that the google my business acct has could include pictures that customers or observers load to the acct.  So ultimately you have to monitor these pictures.

 

Which pictures work best???

That is a tough one.  I corresponded with the person from the hotel industry that first referenced the change for hotel pictures.  His corporation might have large data wherein they can connect pictures with bookings.  I don't have that data and we aren't technically capable enough to try and gain that data.  Plus we wouldn't have enough data to establish if certain pictures work well enough.  Google has the data to a large scale.  In the case of hotels they have millions of bookings.  For every booking they know which pictures accompanied the booking.  They have enormous search data and they are tied to the bookings.  They know by "big data" and algos which work best.

I don't know.  In fact if google is adjusting profile pictures at their whim and fancy for our businesses I won't know which profile pictures are being shown on which days.  They will clearly know more than we know.  That will be true for all small businesses.  For businesses down the line, I suspect they will tie this to future advertising opportunities and or other ways to monetize their position  (ie in restaurants if google forces its way into reservations as they did with hotel bookings.)

 

In any case, going forward I would suggest restaurants review their photos and eliminate the photos that might be nice, but you don't think "qualify" for a profile picture.  Good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I Google-mapped Red Apron Burger Bar yesterday, and noticed it wasn't on Google maps. (When it's not on Google maps, you'll get a result that looks like this (this is a random example), with the address, but not the name, and it won't be able to find the name if you search on it.) So I did two things:

1) On Google Maps (see "like this" above), I clicked on "Add a Missing Place." I didn't have all the information, but I had some of it, so I filled in whatever I could and sent it in.

2) On Facebook, I wrote Red Apron Burger Bar's page, and alerted them to the problem. They were very appreciative, and wrote me back, saying that they were also working to get on Google Maps. 

This morning, I got the following email from Google maps:

Success
Based on your suggestion, the listing for Red Apron Burger Bar has been added to the map. See your addition. Note that some changes might take up to 24 hours before appearing on Google.
Thank you for improving Google Maps! Your insights make it a better, more useful map for everyone.

---

I wrote Red Apron, and let them know (I'm sure they also got an email). Their effort almost certainly carried more weight because there's a special thing you can click that says "Claim this business" which I couldn't do. Regardless, there were at least two communications to Google, and now, they're in. I don't know if I helped them or not, but I might have, and that made me feel good.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I propose the following:

* Let's either start a thread (or use this thread) to help restaurants get onto Google maps, expecting nothing in return other than the satisfaction of helping out our neighbors. Listing as much information as possible in your post will be helpful to other members wishing to contact Google. The information (outside of "Claiming This Business") consists of Name, Address, Category, Phone, Website, Hours.

Entering partial information is better than entering no information, and obviously the two things that are paramount are Name and Address. Make sure both are exactly correct, and that the address includes NW, NE, SW, or SE if it's in DC.

* As soon as people see a restaurant that needs help, i.e., has been posted about in this thread, go to Google Maps, and if the restaurant isn't listed, then fill out the form. We don't need to flood them, but if they get a couple submissions outside of the owners, that will probably strengthen their case.

* I will contact the owners and let them know that our members are working on it, and that they should write Google Maps and "Claim the Business."

This is less than 60 seconds of work for people, and it will help small businesses out a lot. They'll appreciate us lending them a hand - I've always said that we are friends of the restaurant community, and this will help us to lead by example, without expecting anything in return.

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14 minutes ago, DonRocks said:

I Google-mapped Red Apron Burger Bar yesterday, and noticed it wasn't on Google maps. (When it's not on Google maps, you'll get a result that looks like this (this is a random example), with the address, but not the name, and it won't be able to find the name if you search on it.) So I did two things:

1) On Google Maps (see "like this" above), I clicked on "Add a Missing Place." I didn't have all the information, but I had some of it, so I filled in whatever I could and sent it in.

2) On Facebook, I wrote Red Apron Burger Bar's page, and alerted them to the problem. They were very appreciative, and wrote me back, saying that they were also working to get on Google Maps. 

This morning, I got the following email from Google maps:

Success
Based on your suggestion, the listing for Red Apron Burger Bar has been added to the map. See your addition. Note that some changes might take up to 24 hours before appearing on Google.
Thank you for improving Google Maps! Your insights make it a better, more useful map for everyone.

---

I wrote Red Apron, and let them know (I'm sure they also got an email). Their effort almost certainly carried more weight because there's a special thing you can click that says "Claim this business" which I couldn't do. Regardless, there were at least two communications to Google, and now, they're in. I don't know if I helped them or not, but I might have, and that made me feel good.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I propose the following:

* Let's either start a thread (or use this thread) to help restaurants get onto Google maps, expecting nothing in return other than the satisfaction of helping out our neighbors. Listing as much information as possible in your post will be helpful to other members wishing to contact Google. The information (outside of "Claiming This Business") consists of Name, Address, Category, Phone, Website, Hours.

Entering partial information is better than entering no information, and obviously the two things that are paramount are Name and Address. Make sure both are exactly correct, and that the address includes NW, NE, SW, or SE if it's in DC.

* As soon as people see a restaurant that needs help, i.e., has been posted about in this thread, go to Google Maps, and if the restaurant isn't listed, then fill out the form. We don't need to flood them, but if they get a couple submissions outside of the owners, that will probably strengthen their case.

* I will contact the owners and let them know that our members are working on it, and that they should write Google Maps and "Claim the Business."

This is less than 60 seconds of work for people, and it will help small businesses out a lot. They'll appreciate us lending them a hand - I've always said that we are friends of the restaurant community, and this will help us to lead by example, without expecting anything in return.

That is great.  It works CURRENTLY.  It wasn't available a year or so ago.  Interestingly when it first appeared it was presented among commentators as something available for the businesses themselves.  But since its inception its clearly been oriented toward the entire population of google searchers, and as you showed it works.   But it won't in every case.  There are internal google hurdles (spam filters) against this process being spammed.  So if you tried to get that restaurant up in 2 different or 10 different locations when it only had one it probably wouldn't work.  (In fact I suspect the spam filters were what made it so difficult for Drift on 7th to get appropriately seen a year ago.)  Similarly if google has alternative data to that which you sent it won't be verified as quickly or possibly not at all.

Claiming the business is what the business SHOULD do.  Its not difficult.  Google gives more authority if the effort comes from the business itself and if their processes for verifying the accuracy of the data acknowledge the process will work.   Crowd sourcing as you did works, and the efforts of many work better than the efforts of one.

The process for the public, as Don describes, is easy.  Google has fields in which you can fill out the information.  Its VERY IMPORTANT to be precise.  Its more important for the restaurant to verify all these fields and add precise information. So I think I'd follow Don's route which is to notify the restaurant of what you did.

  If I were the restaurant, I'd pay particular attention to the category field.  That is beyond critical.  If one has an Italian restaurant you want to emphasize that category.  If you have an Italian restaurant that serves pizza you definitely want to add the pizza category.  (Pizza is one of the most voluminous searches for food across the US)

These efforts and processes change all the time.  Coincidentally I suspect some time in later January or possibly February of this year an article will come out described somewhat as the current best  ways to get visibility on Google in Maps and organic search.  I recently submitted my best "guesses" or analysis (if you will).  Its a compendium study of the opinions and "research" of many people who practice this. I'd add the caveat that the final report is a compendium of all of the submissions and none of the participants are Google.  So whether its accurate or not....who knows. I've been a contributor since the first year (I think the first publication came out around 2008).   I'll repeat that the processes have changed significantly over the years.  I believe its currently both easier to initially do but more difficult to get wide exposure. 

Anyway its a good suggestion, its easy to do, and it is quite helpful.

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I somehow became a part of the Local Guides community on Google. Basically you provide Google with information about businesses with which you're familiar. I'm sure you can also notify them of a missing business. After I visit a place I get a request via a notification on my phone to answer questions about the place (is there a wheelchair accessible entrance? are they open for breakfast? do they have a full bar?). Some of the questions are more subjective than others (do they have an excellent wine program?). The more you participate the more "benefits" you unlock. You can also upload photos that will appear with their Google Places listing. I took photos at Husk and Hominy Grill in Charleston that have hundreds or maybe by now thousands of views. I haven't participated in the community too much, but sometimes it comes in handy when I need to procrastinate. :-)

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The following links might be helpful for restaurateurs (or for any local business).  Its the latest annual survey of what are considered the current or recent "most important factors" for getting high visibility in google search:  In the maps section wherein 3 businesses show up as a result of a search and in the organic results below.   Its the reason and essence  of "Claiming Your Business" with google my business, or as the title of this thread says "owning your business".

For eight or nine years this survey has been updated with the latest survey of "experts"  (I really hate to use that term as I've been one of them for most of the years (and this year) since it first came out--lets call the participants- observers, testers, and probably obsessively focused on this topic.).   While I contribute, I value it to see the overall perspectives and most significantly from my point of view the insights of the participants.  I know a lot of them so I know what they test, the types of businesses they evaluate, and have a fair idea how they draw their conclusions.   A lot of local search engine optimization (SEO) jargon in it.   But its really about not only having one's business show up in logical searches for one's business....but show up a lot and highly for a great variety of phrases.  

There is an intro and overview of the search ranking factors  The first page focuses on the map part of google, showing up above the organic results (or searching in maps itself).  The graph says survey results suggest that just Correctly Claiming One's Business (as in the topic of this thread) is the most important factor...but it only accounts for 20% of the weight.  In other words if you want to show well for searches beyond one's business name, a business has to do much more than claim its google my business record.

The second page are the detailed local search ranking factors for both maps and the organic results below.  The graph on the left describes what is considered for the map section/ and if one looks at the "more choices" expanded map below the first 3 shown.   The right side graph shows what is considered important for organic results or that which is showing below the maps.  (I'll add that besides the obvious visibility and importance of the maps on top the sites I've worked on which have included a variety of bar schools around the nation and some completely different types of local businesses...have always gotten enormous benefit from the organic results.)

Lots of jargon above: but high visibility in search (which means google) is fundamental to getting a lot of traffic and hopefully lots of customers.

(if you have questions and really care ;)  dm me.)  

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On 1/13/2017 at 1:19 PM, dracisk said:

I somehow became a part of the Local Guides community on Google. Basically you provide Google with information about businesses with which you're familiar. I'm sure you can also notify them of a missing business. After I visit a place I get a request via a notification on my phone to answer questions about the place (is there a wheelchair accessible entrance? are they open for breakfast? do they have a full bar?). Some of the questions are more subjective than others (do they have an excellent wine program?). The more you participate the more "benefits" you unlock. You can also upload photos that will appear with their Google Places listing. I took photos at Husk and Hominy Grill in Charleston that have hundreds or maybe by now thousands of views. I haven't participated in the community too much, but sometimes it comes in handy when I need to procrastinate. :-)

I too am a “local guide”.  Haven’t done much at all recently yet today I noticed an email for local guide swag of 8 free weeks of the Baltimore Sun.  I love the news and I’ve hit my limit for subscriptions so I snagged this swag pronto.  It’s the first swag I’ve gotten or been aware of.

Google started this hype/promo/connection thing in 2015 and that year their volume of reviews vaulted past Yelp TripAdvisor and others after being a google afterthought for a while. Article

I guess a little swag goes a long way

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On 4/9/2018 at 9:13 PM, DaveO said:

I too am a “local guide”.  Haven’t done much at all recently yet today I noticed an email for local guide swag of 8 free weeks of the Baltimore Sun.  I love the news and I’ve hit my limit for subscriptions so I snagged this swag pronto.  It’s the first swag I’ve gotten or been aware of.

Google started this hype/promo/connection thing in 2015 and that year their volume of reviews vaulted past Yelp TripAdvisor and others after being a google afterthought for a while. Article

I guess a little swag goes a long way

It appears Google is upping its game with regard to "local guides".  Just saw my 2nd email on it in 3 days.  Turns out I applied it once in March.  All this interaction suggests they want MORE involvement.

This google local guide "stuff" has had some of the following impacts:

1.  Biggest thing is it dramatically ramped up the volume of google reviews on all kinds of businesses and certainly restaurants.  Total volume of google reviews is now greater than total volume of yelp reviews and as mentioned earlier it exploded in 2015 and has continued since.

2.  Boy businesses crave great reviews.  If you want to see a bit of its underbelly go to facebook and search on something like google review swapping...or review swapping.  There are lots of these groups.  I joined one just to get a sense of it.  There are probably fb updates every day with "fakers" wanting to swap reviews.   Its rampant.

3.  Besides the email interaction google gives "swag" if you take a lot of actions as a local guide.  That means adding reviews, adding photos, informing google of mistakes or business opening or closings of businesses, and feeding them customer info about characteristics of the businesses you have visited.  It is evident that the swag is helping to accelerate the volume of reviews. 

4.  All that has worked to explode their review volumes.  Consumer surveys are reporting that consumers utterly depend on reviews....at least that is what the web marketing world keeps reporting.  We see it among our businesses.   But google reviews STINK in quality, at least imho opinion.  People have measured their content vs other review sites.  They are either painfully short or they are just ratings without any content.   On the swag side, Google recently (several months ago) contacted local guides and informed them they get EXTRA "local guide points" for putting at least minimal content in their reviews.  It might equate to no more than 2 sentences.

Regardless if people use google for a form of search (and they do by overwhelming volumes) once you alight on a particular business in google (before actually visiting the website (if you do).  A big ever growing BOX of google information pops up.  One item that sticks out in that box is the volume of reviews and the ratings.  It is the most visible, most easily accessed, and now most seen review source on the web. 

5.  The big box now includes reams of info about a business, or in the case of a restaurant it might elements such as:  kid friendly or not, hours of operation and days open, wheelchair accessible or not, casual or fancy, price range, cuisine type of course, busyness during typical days and hours (google tracks where people are via their mobiles), price range, etc etc etc.

Yelp has had this info for a long time.  Google is adding it in spades at this point. 

6.  If a restaurateur has an opportunity to meet and chat with diners, one can and at times asks consumers for a review, clearly and especially if they know the diner(s) have good things to say.  Clearly at this point in time google reviews are the one's being seen the most.  If I were in their shoes I'd ask for a google review.  Now here is a little bit of fairly recent "research".  It appears that adding a lot of google reviews "might" be having an impact on getting a site ranked higher in google maps or the "3 pac" that shows on the first page of google search.   It might be...there is a more significant correlation between review volumes and the frequency of adding reviews on google at least in the last year--all to higher rankings in maps.  (that is one of a number of items that seem to relate to higher rankings)

7.  An interesting item relative to reviews is that STILL Facebook doesn't show your FB reviews to your FB friends (unless they changed this in the last 3 months).  In my mind of all large mammoth websites Facebook SHOULD be the most powerful source of reviews in many contexts.  If I had many FB friends in this area and I wrote glowing FB reviews about a restaurant it would reach people who (hopefully) give my judgement some weight.  It would be tantamount to Word of Mouth.  That would drive TONS and TONS of customers.

FB has always known this.  They don't show the review you write on a restaurant's FB page to your FB friends.  If you want your FB friends to see it, you have to write a separate glowing or negative review/comments on your time line in which case your local FB friends will likely see it.

 

In sum this growth of Google Local Guides is impacting what one sees in google reviews and will probably continue to do so for the near future.

 

 

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If you operate a restaurant(s) or a local business(es) I would suggest this survey is a “must read” for “best practices” to getting best and most productive visibility in google search.  2018 Local search ranking factors .   It is a compilation of the perspectives of those who spend their time in this area and study search optimization efforts and results.

(For transparency I’ve been a participant in this annual survey for all but this year and one other year).  (It’s probably better this year without me but in reading summary statements it does highlight some of what I’ve been seeing).  

Much of what is suggested is not at all technical or that complicated or difficult to do

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