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Specific Wine/Beer Glass Type


pras

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Does anyone really think the shape of a glass enhances or detracts from a specific type of wine or beer?  I have the special Dogfishead IPA glass, I enjoy beer and really cannot tell any difference whatsoever in taste for the same IPA in the "IPA Glass" or in a normal beer glass.  One difference I will note, when I sample a high gravity beer, drinking from a snifter does add something to the experience because it allows me to enjoy the aromas, but as far as taste is concerned ...?

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16 minutes ago, pras said:

Does anyone really think the shape of a glass enhances or detracts from a specific type of wine or beer?  I have the special Dogfishead IPA glass, I enjoy beer and really cannot tell any difference whatsoever in taste for the same IPA in the "IPA Glass" or in a normal beer glass.  One difference I will note, when I sample a high gravity beer, drinking from a snifter does add something to the experience because it allows me to enjoy the aromas, but as far as taste is concerned ...?

Yes, the shape of a glass absolutely enhances (or detracts from) the olfactory experience of a drink - any drink, even tea, or milk, or a soft drink, or even water. You simply cannot separate "smell" from "taste," as they are interwoven.

That said, they took the marketing of said phenomenon to an extreme, and it went overboard into the Sea of Ridiculousness.

A good, all-purpose glass - preferably made of decent-quality crystal (expensive crystal is not needed) - with a stem for holding, a wide bowl at the bottom to gather the aromas, and a more narrow opening at the top so you can sniff and sip, is all you need in 95% of situations. There are exceptions, but that's the rule (you won't see that rule written anywhere, but that's my rule, and I know my rule to be correct even though I can't prove it).

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I can only address wine for the most part. 

Specific glasses deposit the wine on a different part of your tongue when you take a sip, and thus have an effect on how you taste them.  That said, any glass will do in a pinch, but for the most part you need a glass like Don said.  However, I would also add that the size of the glass is also a factor.  Not saying that bigger is better, but too small of a glass means that the wine fills up too much of the bowl and you cannot get full effect of the nose and flavor.

 

 

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23 hours ago, dinwiddie said:

I can only address wine for the most part. 

Specific glasses deposit the wine on a different part of your tongue when you take a sip, and thus have an effect on how you taste them.  That said, any glass will do in a pinch, but for the most part you need a glass like Don said.  However, I would also add that the size of the glass is also a factor.  Not saying that bigger is better, but too small of a glass means that the wine fills up too much of the bowl and you cannot get full effect of the nose and flavor.

Have you done a blind taste test with the same wine in different glasses?

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On 4/29/2016 at 2:32 PM, dinwiddie said:

I can only address wine for the most part. 

Specific glasses deposit the wine on a different part of your tongue when you take a sip, and thus have an effect on how you taste them.  That said, any glass will do in a pinch, but for the most part you need a glass like Don said.  However, I would also add that the size of the glass is also a factor.  Not saying that bigger is better, but too small of a glass means that the wine fills up too much of the bowl and you cannot get full effect of the nose and flavor.

I'm sorry but "any glass will (not) do in a pinch."  I could not disagree more passionately with this statement.  There was a time when I traveled and I would bring a bottle of wine or two.  Now, I pack a glass before I even think about the wine.  For red this is my "everyday" wineglass and excepting Reidel Sommeliers @ $100 a glass this is the equal of any. 

Also, it is not just "the shape."  It is also the thickness of the crystal which influences the texture and perception.

Then, we can have the discussion of what to decant it in and for how long and at what temperature.

Of course there is also bottle variation of the particular wine which might render all of this obsolete...  Then, I should also mention barrel variation at the winery...  And last, having two bottles of wine from the same barrel.  One is hand carried on an airplane to the U. S. (when we could do this onboard) and another spent several weeks at sea as part of a large container.

Difference was night and day.

Point is that some wine, truly, is a once in a lifetime experience that cannot be duplicated. And sipped in a thin fishbowl on a skinny stem.

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2 hours ago, Rhone1998 said:

Another article relevant to this conversation.  And a thousand others, some of which appear here (umami anyone? MSG?).  Rational evidence is just much less powerful at convincing people to change their beliefs than we'd hope it to be, unfortunately.  

Yes! The Wikipedia article on "The Backfire Effect." The one that says, "The backfire effect is extremely strong. But there are some proven ways to bring someone around to your point of view." 

The one that should be required reading in Law 101 - for those whose sole ambition is "to argue to win" instead of "to discuss to learn."

I don't see how "The Backfire Effect" is relevant to the size, shape, and thickness of wine glasses and ones perception of the wine they're drinking, and I didn't agree with much of what Joe said, but his post isn't entirely wrong, either. What I can't tell is whether he's advocating for thick or thin crystal, because the Riedel Sommelier Series - especially the Red Burgundy glass which can hold an entire bottle of wine - is possibly the thinnest crystal I've ever seen, and can break just from *swirling the wine* much less cleaning the glass. I have unopened boxes of them in storage, and have no desire ever to use them again. At the other extreme, serving a nuanced wine from a ceramic coffee cup is a complete waste of the wine.

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23 hours ago, pras said:

Have you done a blind taste test with the same wine in different glasses?

pras, there have been tastings done in opaque glasses where semi-experienced tasters didn't even know if they were drinking a white or a red.

You absolutely don't need to be a professional taster to perform some very simple tests:

* Try taking a sip of wine without breathing - take your other hand and physically hold your nose if you have to. Then, try sipping *while* you're breathing - note the finish on the exhale. That should prove beyond a doubt that smell is an integral part of taste (hell, for that matter, hold your nose, and put a teaspoon of pepper on your tongue - don't breathe for ten seconds, neither exhaling or inhaling - you won't taste a thing, but when you start breathing again, look out!). 

* Try drinking the exact same Eau-de-Vie out of these two glasses (the shapes don't need to be exact):

220px-Drikkeglas_med_brud-1.JPG1416178....jpg

 

 

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This isn't limited to stemware, or wine cost/quality.  Here is an article discussing studies showing how even the clothes we wear affect how we interact with the world around us.  While none of them (that I know of) specifically address how we perceive our food and drink, I can't imagine it wouldn't follow suit.  Serve me the same glass of wine at Metier on my anniversary, when I'm in a suit and my wife is dressed to the nines, and at home in jeans with my 2 kids running wild, and I'm betting it will "taste" different.

I wrote this wearing a suit after speaking at a medical conference, so I am feeling extra authoritative right now.  Don't even try to argue with me. ;)

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10 minutes ago, JoshNE said:

This isn't limited to stemware, or wine cost/quality.  Here is an article discussing studies showing how even the clothes we wear affect how we interact with the world around us.  While none of them (that I know of) specifically address how we perceive our food and drink, I can't imagine it wouldn't follow suit.  Serve me the same glass of wine at Metier on my anniversary, when I'm in a suit and my wife is dressed to the nines, and at home in jeans with my 2 kids running wild, and I'm betting it will "taste" different.

When I was in my 20's, and hungover as hell, one remedy I'd use would be to shower, shave, and put on a nice pair of clothing. It didn't physically relieve the hangover, but it made me feel better about myself. This works up until about the time when you turn 30. Then, you say "Leave me alone!" and lie under the covers in a cold, dark, quiet room.

10 minutes ago, JoshNE said:

I wrote this wearing a suit after speaking at a medical conference, so I am feeling extra authoritative right now.  Don't even try to argue with me. ;)

Yes, sir!

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18 hours ago, DonRocks said:

Yes! The Wikipedia article on "The Backfire Effect." The one that says, "The backfire effect is extremely strong. But there are some proven ways to bring someone around to your point of view." 

The one that should be required reading in Law 101 - for those whose sole ambition is "to argue to win" instead of "to discuss to learn."

I don't see how "The Backfire Effect" is relevant to the size, shape, and thickness of wine glasses and ones perception of the wine they're drinking, and I didn't agree with much of what Joe said, but his post isn't entirely wrong, either. What I can't tell is whether he's advocating for thick or thin crystal, because the Riedel Sommelier Series - especially the Red Burgundy glass which can hold an entire bottle of wine - is possibly the thinnest crystal I've ever seen, and can break just from *swirling the wine* much less cleaning the glass. I have unopened boxes of them in storage, and have no desire ever to use them again. At the other extreme, serving a nuanced wine from a ceramic coffee cup is a complete waste of the wine.

...but did you read "Shattered Myths"?

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6 minutes ago, DonRocks said:

Yes, why?

Because I expected "to discuss to learn", but instead you seemingly ignored it to jump on a wikipedia article. I though "Shattered Myths" was a real eye-opener, because the conclusion is not what you're expecting, but the reason why makes total sense.

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3 minutes ago, porcupine said:

Because I expected "to discuss to learn", but instead you seemingly ignored it to jump on a wikipedia article. I though "Shattered Myths" was a real eye-opener, because the conclusion is not what you're expecting, but the reason why makes total sense.

Well, I've been blind tasting wines for 30 years, so the article didn't say a whole lot to me, as I've heard it all before, in myriads of permutations - in all honesty, I found it very hard to finish, though I did try, and I eventually did finish.

An article in Gourmet magazine is going to teach me as much about blind tasting as an article in the New York Times will teach you about driving a race car, or will teach a neurosurgeon about a new surgical technique - by the time it hits *this* level of publication, you've already known about it for years. If you want to discuss certain aspects of the article, that's fine, and I'll be happy to (but you're going to have to tell me which aspects); I didn't realize you'd posted it with me in mind.

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One more comment:  I like to swish wine in the glass.  Perhaps because I quit smoking 28 years ago I need something to occasionally do with my hand (i.e. lifting a cigarette to my lips).  Last night sitting at Clarity I noticed that from time to time I would touch the stem of the glass and lightly swirl the wine inside.  This was not a conscious effort to help the wine open; rather, it was an act similar to "taking a drag."

It is easier to do this in a larger glass.

I almost always ask for the largest available glass regardless of what its shape is intended for.  

Again I note the the Schott Zweisel Tritan (dishwasher safe with a frame that allows it to hang) Diva Burgundy glass is supurb.  I have used them for perhaps 15 years or more.  I do not use these for white or a dessert wine but for red they are perfect. 

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48 minutes ago, Joe H said:

One more comment:  I like to swish wine in the glass.  Perhaps because I quit smoking 28 years ago I need something to occasionally do with my hand (i.e. lifting a cigarette to my lips).  Last night sitting at Clarity I noticed that from time to time I would touch the stem of the glass and lightly swirl the wine inside.  This was not a conscious effort to help the wine open; rather, it was an act similar to "taking a drag."

It is easier to do this in a larger glass.

I'll take you seriously when you confess to finding yourself unconsciously swirling your water glass.

#guilty

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7 hours ago, DonRocks said:

I'll take you seriously when you confess to finding yourself unconsciously swirling your water glass.

#guilty

I actually thought about this last night at Clarity, too.  After two hours or so the wine bottle directly in front of me was almost empty.  The glass of water poured when I sat down was still full.

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We've had this discussion before.

The human tongue has only 5 (maybe a few more -- not proven yet) types of taste receptors; as an aside, they are all scattered all over the tongue. They are so few and so limited that there's no way they could tell you much about any wine you are drinking. Meanwhile the human nose has hundreds (?? I have seen the number and it is very large) of different aroma detectors. What you think you are tasting when you "taste" wine or most anything else is actually smelling.  Your brain assembles all the sensory inputs (and many other inputs too) and comes up with what you experience as "taste."  Where wine hits your tongue has little to do with the outcome.  The vast preponderance of taste is based on aromas which are detected in our noses, not on our tongues.

Most importantly, your pre-conceptions, and other inputs such as your surroundings, your experience, and many other factors have a large impact on what your brain comes up with.  For example, you could give two samples of wine or just about anything to people, saying sample one is high quality and expensive and sample two is crap, and most people will say the first is much better, even if they were both from the same bottle.  But here's the point -- they would be right -- the first really and truly did taste better to them.  Why? Because their brains took all the information, the back story along with the sensory information, weighed and processed it, and came up with a better result for the first one. That's how our brains work, and sometimes send us off the rails.

You could say that fine wine will always taste better than plonk, even if it doesn't.

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I don't believe the "science" behind Reidel's glassware, not even to a small degree.  But there's an elegance to their products that I enjoy.  Notwithstanding, the first time I broke a $40 wine glass by simply washing it, I was cured of ever buying another.  For years now, I have instead bought the sets Reidell sells at Target, which are $40 for four glasses (rather than for $40 or more each glass).  Side by side, they're not quite a lovely as their higher end lines.  But they're close, seem more durable than the more expensive versions, and, if one does break, my evening isn't marred with a tinge of sadness and regret.  A least not because I broke a glass.

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On 4/30/2016 at 7:15 AM, porcupine said:

Read this article. Read the whole thing, it's worth it. The answer is near the end but don't skim looking for it. Also the "tongue map" thing is a myth that was debunked decades 

2 hours ago, RWBooneJr said:

I don't believe the "science" behind Reidel's glassware, not even to a small degree.  But there's an elegance to their products that I enjoy.  Notwithstanding, the first time I broke a $40 wine glass by simply washing it, I was cured of ever buying another.  For years now, I have instead bought the sets Reidell sells at Target, which are $40 for four glasses (rather than for $40 or more each glass).  Side by side, they're not quite a lovely as their higher end lines.  But they're close, seem more durable than the more expensive versions, and, if one does break, my evening isn't marred with a tinge of sadness and regret.  A least not because I broke a glass.

I read the article, Porcupine.  I found it to be well written and very well constructed.  The final part of the article was indeed a surprise.  

I have no experience in this area.  Several decades ago I had a reaction to red wines; my face turned beet red, I was flushed and my appearance was that of a red light.  I stopped drinking reds, then whites.  Its only been in the last decade or 15 years that I've started sipping wines again.  I also don't have expensive stemware.  After reading the article I searched on glassware and stemware and then searched on Reidel's products.

There are a great variety of price points with glassware and stemware.  It ranges quite a bit.  On reading the article it appeared to me to be a classic and potential perfect case study for a marketing class.  On the other hand PT Barnum, might have awarded the Reidel marketing team his gold medal for "there is a sucker born every minute, marketing award."  Reidel did a great job of introducing and selling its own unique brand of expensive stemware.  It is quite beautiful.  Among Reidel's products are simply charming decanters among other items.  

Porcupine:  It was a very educational article.  Thanks.  

 

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2 minutes ago, DaveO said:

Several decades ago I had a reaction to red wines; my face turned beet red, I was flushed and my appearance was that of a red light.

An H2-blocking antihistamine like Pepcid AC or Zantac should prevent this reaction.  There's some reason to think that those drugs may interact less than favorably with alcohol by increasing your BAC.  But if you're just having a glass or two and not driving, it's probably not a big deal.

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Just now, RWBooneJr said:

An H2-blocking antihistamine like Pepcid AC or Zantac should prevent this reaction.  There's some reason to think that those drugs may interact less than favorably with alcohol by increasing your BAC.  But if you're just having a glass or two and not driving, it's probably not a big deal.

Oh great.  Now you tell me!!!! ;)   BTW:  I never had it diagnosed.  I simply stopped drinking wine and drank more beer.  I don't recall any negative reactions beyond what I described above, but it appeared after drinking wine I was capable of causing terrible traffic problems any time I flashed my beet red face at a street corner. :D

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On 4/30/2016 at 9:11 PM, Joe H said:

I'm sorry but "any glass will (not) do in a pinch."  I could not disagree more passionately with this statement.  There was a time when I traveled and I would bring a bottle of wine or two.  Now, I pack a glass before I even think about the wine.  For red this is my "everyday" wineglass and excepting Reidel Sommeliers @ $100 a glass this is the equal of any. 

Also, it is not just "the shape."  It is also the thickness of the crystal which influences the texture and perception.

Then, we can have the discussion of what to decant it in and for how long and at what temperature.

Of course there is also bottle variation of the particular wine which might render all of this obsolete...  Then, I should also mention barrel variation at the winery...  And last, having two bottles of wine from the same barrel.  One is hand carried on an airplane to the U. S. (when we could do this onboard) and another spent several weeks at sea as part of a large container.

Difference was night and day.

Point is that some wine, truly, is a once in a lifetime experience that cannot be duplicated. And sipped in a thin fishbowl on a skinny stem.

Better to use an inferior glass than not to drink the wine at all.  I have actually done a tasting of Pinot Noirs using two different types of glasses, one designed to deposit the wine further back on the tongue.  And yes, you could tell a slight difference, but only a slight one.

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On April 30, 2016 at 0:38 PM, DonRocks said:

What I can't tell is whether he's advocating for thick or thin crystal, because the Riedel Sommelier Series - especially the Red Burgundy glass which can hold an entire bottle of wine - is possibly the thinnest crystal I've ever seen, and can break just from *swirling the wine* much less cleaning the glass.

I think that Riedel Somms were the most fragile glasses I'd ever held, but just try drinking from Zalto Denk'art.  They're actually tougher than the Riedels - indeed Zalto claims they're dishwasher safe - but the stems are so slender, you wonder if they'll snap just from lifting the weight of the bowl.

Otherwise, the phrase of the day is "retronasal olfaction".

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On 5/2/2016 at 11:29 PM, johnb said:

We've had this discussion before.

Yep!   

On 12/29/2015 at 7:47 AM, johnb said:

I've participated in many of these discussions over the years, and read through many others.

IMO, in nearly every case, they start with the wrong premise, viz., that taste is based on how things "taste."  This is wrong.  

And a few posts below johnb's, is porcupine's original post of the Shattered Myths article.

Posting this more to reassure myself that I actually do remember reading this before and it's not just a weird deja vu thing happening.

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On 5/17/2016 at 3:01 PM, DonRocks said:

Folks, there's really only one all-purpose glass you need for all of your drinking requirements - it is *the* perfect vessel, and should be a staple in everyone's cabinet.

And it's even available at Crate & Barrel for under $10 - enjoy!

Cheers,
Rocks 

The item, which is a C&B exclusive, is named after a character on Mad Men.  There is another similar item named after another Mad Men character. I have it on good authority (I can not say more) that it will continue to be offered by C&B but may in the future be sold under a different name.  So if anyone wants to buy one/some with the current name sticker, don't delay (I'm talking to you Don).  

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1 hour ago, johnb said:

The item, which is a C&B exclusive, is named after a character on Mad Men.  There is another similar item named after another Mad Men character. I have it on good authority (I can not say more) that it will continue to be offered by C&B but may in the future be sold under a different name.  So if anyone wants to buy one/some with the current name sticker, don't delay (I'm talking to you Don).  

Killjoy.

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13 hours ago, johnb said:

The item, which is a C&B exclusive, is named after a character on Mad Men.  There is another similar item named after another Mad Men character. I have it on good authority (I can not say more) that it will continue to be offered by C&B but may in the future be sold under a different name.  So if anyone wants to buy one/some with the current name sticker, don't delay (I'm talking to you Don).  

Off the top of my head the one cocktail that TV popularized is the Cosmopolitan, made immensely and widely popular in the late 1990's as it was the favorite drink of the main characters of Sex and the City.  It was highlighted so often as those women could be found at some cafe or bar with elegant looking cosmos.  One can read histories of the cosmo.  I don't know who has the best and most comprehensive research, but I've seen cocktails like it described as its origin dating back decades.  Later Ocean Spray advertised the cocktail on its bottles, and later it was picked up or developed in Miami, San Francisco, NY, Provincetown, etc. all according to some of the history I've read.  

I scarcely watched Mad Men.  Didn't pay attention to the glassware and only scant attention to the characters' relationship to alcohol.....but the focus on strong cocktails and rocks drinks cocktails that was evident in Mad Men and a characteristic of that advertising community and others from the 60's certainly carried over to the 80's.  Its when I became aware of the drinks and admittedly enjoyed them.  

Rocks drinks are often (no I'd say usually) strong, dramatically strong.  (Its why I enjoyed and downed them).  They are the signs of a boozer.  --or a boozer in professional attire.

So if Mad Men, Crate and Barrel and other distributors and retailers manage to create a craze, not unlike that associated with The Cosmo....maybe we will see the recreation of a seriously boozing public.  Maybe, or maybe mixologists will create newer less potent cocktails to fill these tumblers.

That is the history.  

Now, Don, if you can work your way into that possible trend....well more power to you. ;)   As for me, I look at those tumblers and I start thinking very high alcohol content!!!!

 

  

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