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On Mixing Drinks: Shaken, Stirred, Eyeballing, Counting, Rocks, Straight, Etc.


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On 4/28/2016 at 3:27 PM, JoshNE said:

I don't even know about the "booze" part...my buddy ordered a Manhattan there, and dude shook it.  No no no.

On 4/28/2016 at 3:31 PM, lhollers said:

Sorry Josh, excellent point. Mark, I should've also mentioned that the bar staff don't really know what they're doing - to echo Josh's point, I ordered a Negroni here and the gal behind the bar eyeballed the three parts into a shaker and shook it. Huh. Even normal drinks are STRONG, with way too heavy pours, but the cocktail list they already have built is *alright*. Less than alright, actually, when you consider how close amazing cocktails are at Boundary Road, Copycat, and Church & State.

On 5/13/2016 at 2:49 PM, Mark Dedrick said:

So earlier this week we did check out Ten 01. My Manhattan was eyeballed, but stirred, and tasted pretty much spot on. My wife's mezcal margarita (can't remember the name) was actually quite good. Beer list was very solid, and the space is very cool. We only got two snacks to eat while there, the shrimp and half-smoke corn dogs (burnt, which ruined the fact that they otherwise tasted good) and the fries (eh). 

We then proceeded over to Queen Vic to have dinner. It was good! I'll put it back into the rotation. Solid service, good food. 

The above comments stuck with me.  I preferred  drinks such as Manhattan's, Martini's, Negroni's (mentioned above), Boulevadiers, on the rocks rather than straight up.  Once on the rocks it sort of negates the issue of shaken not stirred.  But its admittedly been a long time.  I scarcely drink.  Somehow--somewhere age caught up with me. ;)  But I found the above discussion haunting and required a field test:  On the rocks vs straight up in a martini/cocktail glass.  I hit a reasonable bar, (where a grad of the bar school was behind the rail) and ordered some dinner and drinks.    Two boulevadiers...(which once was par for the course--and now is probably 1.5 too many).  One straight up, one on the rocks.  

By the way, the bartender "free poured" using a count method.  While I don't pour professionally and often any more I'll get new students started with learning a count method, get behind the bar, demonstrate, and usually I'm on target.  (frankly if I was doing this "professionally" / for fun and money   I'd test my rhythm and count every day behind a bar.  Certain bars require that on every shift--good policy.)  She wasn't eyeballing as she was pouring into a metal mixer, not a mixing glass.  But if your pour and rhythm is on, you should hit accurate pours virtually all the time.  

Anyway the question for me was on the rocks or straight up in a cocktail glass.  The first was straight up.  The cocktail glass was chilled for an adequate time, lot of ice in the mixing tin...and a longish shake.  That conveys a lot of chill.  Nice.  

But....I think the best part of the chill lasted about 1/2 an hour.  I don't recall the room being overly warm.  Its simply that the chill "leaves".  I had her pour the drink into a rocks glass with ice and the chill returned.  Yes, as I got to the last bit of drink it was diluted.   The second cocktail was on the rocks from the beginning.  The chill stayed far longer.  I enjoyed it more.  No I didn't finish it, but toward the end it was diluted somewhat and I could discern that.  Still enjoyed it far more.

Now that ended up being a tough test for me.  About 1.5 cocktails too many at my stage. :D  

As to measuring vs eyeballing or free pouring.  Well I hope or doubt most bartenders Don't Eyeball.  I hope, when they are free pouring they are using a count method...but I know if you don't practice and stay on top of one's rhythm it goes astray.  For some cocktails it shouldn't matter much...for others it makes a big difference.  From an owner perspective, there are just under 34 ounces in a 1 liter bottle.  Over pour all the time...there go your margins.  Pour erratically, drinks come out tasting differently.  

I'd simply suggest measure or free pour...but if free pouring be damned good with your count rhythm.  Its not difficult.

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My perspective from a once-enthusiast.  I haven't consistently made cocktails in about a year or two, but for awhile I was churning thru the Savoy or other cocktail books at a rate of two, usually three, or more per night.  

Pours:  I free poured my spirits, by removing the cap and pouring without any sort of regulator.  Sometimes I pour fast, sometime I pour slow.  For the first year, I poured directly into an oXo slanted jigger.  Now, I can pour 1.5 or 2 ounces by feel, blindfolded.  I don't count, but can judge how much has left the bottle.  Surprisingly accurate, but to my tastes, you really don't need to be accurate for a base spirit.  I feel the same about apertifs.  That said, I do feel strongly that ratios of the recipe ingredients need to be observed as outlined as closely as possible.  

For modifiers, like orange curacao, or especially for provocative ones like Pimento Dram or absinthe, you need to use a barspoon or a jigger.  Whereas I can tolerate a 33% variance for a base spirit pour, for these ingredients my tolerance is closer to 5-7%.  

Rocks vs. Straight up:  I am a pretty fast drinker, and a cocktail straight up won't live to see its eleventh minute in front of me.  Rocks glasses though I will sip slower.  I am fine with warm cocktails and neat spirits, so I am a poor data point on this.  Sadly, cleanliness is oftentimes a more pressing issue that I see at bars than issues of pours, shake vs. stir, or chill issues.  

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2 hours ago, DaRiv18 said:

My perspective from a once-enthusiast.  I haven't consistently made cocktails in about a year or two, but for awhile I was churning thru the Savoy or other cocktail books at a rate of two, usually three, or more per night.  

Pours:  I free poured my spirits, by removing the cap and pouring without any sort of regulator.  Sometimes I pour fast, sometime I pour slow.  For the first year, I poured directly into an oXo slanted jigger.  Now, I can pour 1.5 or 2 ounces by feel, blindfolded.  I don't count, but can judge how much has left the bottle.  Surprisingly accurate, but to my tastes, you really don't need to be accurate for a base spirit.  I feel the same about apertifs.  That said, I do feel strongly that ratios of the recipe ingredients need to be observed as outlined as closely as possible.  

For modifiers, like orange curacao, or especially for provocative ones like Pimento Dram or absinthe, you need to use a barspoon or a jigger.  Whereas I can tolerate a 33% variance for a base spirit pour, for these ingredients my tolerance is closer to 5-7%.  

Rocks vs. Straight up:  I am a pretty fast drinker, and a cocktail straight up won't live to see its eleventh minute in front of me.  Rocks glasses though I will sip slower.  I am fine with warm cocktails and neat spirits, so I am a poor data point on this.  Sadly, cleanliness is oftentimes a more pressing issue that I see at bars than issues of pours, shake vs. stir, or chill issues.  

Great for you.  Clearly there are differences at home and behind a bar, making $ for yourself and the bar and working to satisfy customers.  Using a measure or free pouring...I don't see a difference.  Consistency on pours is critical--for the customers and for the bar.  BTW:   pour spouts (or regulators) are very inexpensive.  Certainly if you buy a lot of alcohol and pour a lot very very inexpensive.  They are available on the web and in stores.    

On simple drinks I agree with you on pours....at home.  Modifiers or liqueurs are often where taste comes in.  I agree with you.  Measure.  That can really change taste.  Similarly with infused alcohols or preflavored alcohols.  

Fast drinker.  Oooooh.   I can't do that ..anymore.   :D  Good for you.  Downing a lot of alcohol fast can get you drunker faster and worse.  Size, musculature, and tolerance from "practice" matters on that aspect.  If you are downing them that quickly...yep...shaken, stirred, on the rocks...doesn't matter.  Straight up Chilled drinks will stayed chilled.

Where free pouring comes into play for a bartender and customers is if you are tending at a very busy bar free pouring makes you more efficient and faster.  If you are the 20th customer with one bartender and they can put out drinks 20 seconds faster per drink your wait time gets cut by 4,5, 6 minutes.  That is inimically different than with complex craft drinks, multiple ingredients, complex actions.   Therein lies the utilitarian difference.  

And lastly...I too want a clean bar. here is an old line for working bartenders...."If you can lean, you can clean"

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On June 2, 2016 at 1:00 PM, DaRiv18 said:

My perspective from a once-enthusiast.  I haven't consistently made cocktails in about a year or two, but for awhile I was churning thru the Savoy or other cocktail books at a rate of two, usually three, or more per night.  

Pours:  I free poured my spirits, by removing the cap and pouring without any sort of regulator.  Sometimes I pour fast, sometime I pour slow.  For the first year, I poured directly into an oXo slanted jigger.  Now, I can pour 1.5 or 2 ounces by feel, blindfolded.  I don't count, but can judge how much has left the bottle.  Surprisingly accurate, but to my tastes, you really don't need to be accurate for a base spirit.  I feel the same about apertifs.  That said, I do feel strongly that ratios of the recipe ingredients need to be observed as outlined as closely as possible.  

For modifiers, like orange curacao, or especially for provocative ones like Pimento Dram or absinthe, you need to use a barspoon or a jigger.  Whereas I can tolerate a 33% variance for a base spirit pour, for these ingredients my tolerance is closer to 5-7%.  

Rocks vs. Straight up:  I am a pretty fast drinker, and a cocktail straight up won't live to see its eleventh minute in front of me.  Rocks glasses though I will sip slower.  I am fine with warm cocktails and neat spirits, so I am a poor data point on this.  Sadly, cleanliness is oftentimes a more pressing issue that I see at bars than issues of pours, shake vs. stir, or chill issues.  

I use this at home all the time. It is the only way I know I am pouring the right amount for a given drink I am trying to make. Granted, I have only been making cocktails at home now for maybe 8 or 9 months, but I find that tool extremely helpful.  I think my sense of 'how much has left the bottle' as well as how long a pour takes to get the ounce or two is getting better, but I am too worried I will screw a drink up still, now, to veer away from this tool usage.  I also like to stick precisely to a recipe for a cocktail at first, to know what it is 'supposed to' taste like. After that, veering slightly off course is fine, but I update my notes based on the preferences I have that I discover in doing this.

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re:  an oxo slanted jigger

On 6/4/2016 at 5:11 PM, Pool Boy said:

I use this at home all the time. It is the only way I know I am pouring the right amount for a given drink I am trying to make. Granted, I have only been making cocktails at home now for maybe 8 or 9 months, but I find that tool extremely helpful.  I think my sense of 'how much has left the bottle' as well as how long a pour takes to get the ounce or two is getting better, but I am too worried I will screw a drink up still, now, to veer away from this tool usage.  I also like to stick precisely to a recipe for a cocktail at first, to know what it is 'supposed to' taste like. After that, veering slightly off course is fine, but I update my notes based on the preferences I have that I discover in doing this.

From reading the above I think this makes perfect sense. Free pouring:  its really for professional bartenders...and its best used for very fast paced bars with many customers...and frankly one should practice their pour before every shift.     I do value pour spouts.  They slow down the pour.  Even with a jigger it keeps you from way over pouring.  They are very inexpensive.     For even classic cocktails you can find recipes wherein the "mix" will be different:  ie 1 to 1  or 1 to 1.5   So I think you are right on above. Be precise to start.  Then adjust and test.  That will allow you to adjust for your taste and the tastes of others.  

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