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Advice to Bartenders from Diners


DonRocks

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I want to start this thread in order for experienced diners to offer up helpful ideas for bartenders.

Speaking for myself, and I believe speaking for others, the diners on this website (and I remind people that our members are 25-30% industry insiders) have a deep-seated respect for bartenders, and can use this thread to communicate helpful hints to make tricky situations easier. 

What I don't want this thread to be is a finger-wagging "shame list," full of "Thou shalt not" commands designed to be passive-aggressive venting. The overwhelming majority of diners here have a genuine compassion for our bartending brothers and sisters, and can use this to suggest things to create win-win situations for all involved.

Most of these types of lists in other publications are of the form, "10 Secrets Your Bartender Doesn't Tell You," and are designed not only to be click-bait, but also to make the diners feel like shit about themselves. I want none of that here, although I would love to start a reverse thread titled, "Advice to Diners from Bartenders," with the same spirit of mutual respect as its goal. 

I could probably think of fifty things to rattle off, but I'd rather do them one at a time, so that they can be discussed and absorbed - maybe some of them aren't even valid points, I don't know; but hopefully, with an attitude of mutual respect and admiration, we'll be able to accomplish quite a lot here.

I'd like to start out with one thing that's small, and relatively unimportant, as an example of a single issue that most people might have differing opinions about.

The issue is, "When Happy Hour ends at 6, and it's 5:50." 

All the diners are possibly holding a separate menu, and people undoubtedly try to put in a big order at 5:58. I can see where this could be annoying from a bartender's point-of-view (especially when it's 6:05).

A couple of thoughts from my perspective:

* In general, people don't like being lied to, but this is one particular instance where it might be best for the menus to announce the end of Happy Hour 15 minutes before the restaurant actually wants it to end, i.e., the "real" ending time would be 6:15 PM. This will make customers feel like their bartender is doing them a favor by "sneaking in" one last order, and might even result in a bigger tip. Diners really appreciate gestures such as this - just have your staff sworn to secrecy!

* Clear and concise communication is always best, and I personally like it when a bartender traverses the bar, collecting up all the Happy Hour menus at 5:55 (or whenever), and clearly asking, "Are there any more Happy Hour orders?" While this may err on the aggressive side, it's for the best, as it leaves customers no wiggle room, and clearly establishes that Happy Hour is now over, while giving diners one, last chance to order three beers for "those friends who are about to arrive." (Yeah, right!) :)

* If the bartender is swamped at 5:53, make sure to give everyone one, last chance to get a drink order in, even if it means going over. It always amazes me how bars clear out when Happy Hour ends, so I guess people in general can be pretty cheap. I like to arrive about 15 minutes before Happy Hour ends, so I can save a couple bucks on my first drink (which I tend to enjoy by itself), but then I have the luxury of an empty bar afterwards. Note to diners: While I don't think it's required to tip on the full price, I do think it's important to remember that this is these people's livelihood, and adding something extra may mean more to them than it would mean to you - but again, this would be generous on your part (then again, the world would be a better place if more people were generous). If you're wealthy, keep in mind that they probably aren't, and they've been working to please you.

* If it's possible, have your cash registers set up so that it's physically impossible to enter a Happy Hour item after the witching hour. This gives the bartender an "out" without looking like a creep. Also, if possible, set up the registers to allow an override for emergency situations - but when that happens, make it look like a big deal by calling the manager over to unlock the register, etc. Make sure the diner knows you've broken the rules in this one, particular situation.

I can't think of anything else about this particular issue - if any bartenders have any "dos or don'ts" for diners, that would be an excellent chance to quote this post, and put the response in a new, "bartenders-to-diners" thread. If you don't know how, just say so, and I'll do it for you - it's simple when you know how (then again, so is brain surgery).

Cheers,
Rocks

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Along the happy hour theme, be up front with what is and is not on happy hour.  I'm not sure why so many happy hour menus have gotten so complicated (chains seem to be the main culprit here), but if a guest has expressed interest in happy hour, and you then see them fall pray to the fine print, a friendly heads up is appreciated.  For ex. - the 16oz beer is on special but the 20oz is not - it can save hard feelings later to flag that.  While not expected, bonus points for something along the lines of "That is a nice IPA, though this other IPA is also nice and is on happy hour for $4 right now".  Typically the beer costs me the same price, it just depends on whether you get the difference in tip, or the restaurant does in sales.

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On 11/20/2016 at 8:55 AM, DonRocks said:

Note to diners: While I don't think it's required to tip on the full price... this would be generous on your part (then again, the world would be a better place if more people were generous).

I disagree - I always tip on the full value, and I believe that's the ethical, not generous, thing to do. To me, happy hour pricing is no different than using a Groupon, half-price app night, comps, etc. - you should always tip on what the check would have been without the discount.

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On 11/21/2016 at 2:18 PM, DanielK said:

I disagree - I always tip on the full value, and I believe that's the ethical, not generous, thing to do. To me, happy hour pricing is no different than using a Groupon, half-price app night, comps, etc. - you should always tip on what the check would have been without the discount.

You may be right about it being the ethical thing to do, but you have to answer these questions first to convince me:

1) Why should the "full value" be the prime-time dinner-hour price instead of the happy hour price? This series of questions all address what, exactly, "full value" is.

2) What about restaurants, e.g., "The Inn at Little Washington," that charge less on Tuesdays than on Saturdays? Or should I say "more on Saturdays than on Tuesdays?" Should you tip 20% on the Saturday night amount, even on a Tuesday? If not, why not?

3) What about New Year's Eve, Valentine's Day, or other occasions when restaurants gouge their patrons? Are those the real prices? 

4) What about Restaurant Eve's Lickety Split lunch? Should you tip the same amount as you would during a $200 dinner? What about lunches in general, which are almost always less expensive than dinners?

5) What about breakfast at a hotel (*the* most dreaded service of any in the industry for servers)? Should you tip full dinner prices for an $8.99 omelette? 

6) What if you order a $150 bottle of wine? Do you tip $30? What if you order a $40 bottle of wine? Do you still tip $30? Same amount of work.

7) Why are you assuming "discount" rather than "supplement?" This "30% food cost" you always hear about is not based on Saturday night alone - it's the average for all sales: lunch, happy hour, dinner, holidays, etc. Why should I assume the most expensive moment (with the exception of days like New Year's Eve) is the "correct" moment to base a tip on? I just paid $15 to park in a garage because there was no street parking available at 4:30 PM. Who's going to reimburse me for that?

I could come up with twenty more questions - I came up with these in about two minutes. They're all Tema con Variazioni.

You posted two days ago, and have gotten 5 Likes - let's see how many I get. Probably none.

Adjunct: Why did the standard tip go from 15% to 20%? It was about to go to 25% a few years ago before it was beaten back down by consumers.

I contest that doing away with tipping is the answer, and that it is the industry's responsibility to handle this issue; not the consumer's.

Daniel, don't get suckered into addressing each of these questions individually - I'm making a larger point here (just trying to save you some time). You're well-meaning and a good person, but in this case, I also think you're wrong about it being "the" ethical thing to do - this is an enormously complicated, multi-faceted issue.

Jul 12, 2016 - "Einstein's General Theory of Relativity" by Nola Taylor Redd on space.com 

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On 11/21/2016 at 2:18 PM, DanielK said:

I disagree - I always tip on the full value, and I believe that's the ethical, not generous, thing to do. To me, happy hour pricing is no different than using a Groupon, half-price app night, comps, etc. - you should always tip on what the check would have been without the discount.

The other evening a companion and I were comped for what must have been 65-70% of the bill.  It was a complete surprise.  There is a "story" behind it, but I'm not sure I can relate it in full, and frankly that comp (any comp) was at the discretion of the management.  Obviously I can't source their perspective.   We left a very large tip.  Very large.  I'm not even sure how much we left but it was very generous.

I  tend to tip well.  I don't tell others what to tip.  Its not my business.  There are standards out there.  Good.  At least set a norm. 

I've been on the other side also.  FOH people are at the mercy of customers.  One can get unbelievably great tips and one can suffer from horrific nights serving "cheapskates".  Every so often in the news (or social news) we'll see these stories of people who leave notes in lieu of tips with some crappy stupid racist garbage on it and no tip.  Always good when the cheapskates get called out.  OTOH, every so often in the news or social news some incredibly generous person will leave a tip or gift that is in the thousands of dollars.  (I guess those two extremes might balance out on the mega scale...but they don't make up for the FOH staffers who are stiffed.

As to whether or not restaurants can effectively change pay scales with a surcharge and simultaneously eliminate tips, thus trying to raise the income levels of BOH (back of house staff) from what I've read and from what I know, its a function of how well that restaurant does overall.  The press I've read on this seems to indicate if the revenues aren't there initially, raising prices with the surcharge negatively impacts customers.  Its simply difficult to do in an environment with thousands of restaurants (just take the DC metro region) with the vast majority not doing exceptionally well.  Of course that is my perspective, some knowledge about restaurant economics, some views into restaurant income statements, and reading through all the press on the pay scale issue; and who is doing this, who isn't, and the stories of those that have tried it and reverted to what is the US norm/ tipping.

I'm not sure about ethics on this issue.  I do know its a tough way to make a living either in the FOH or BOH, but there are also astonishing opportunities for those that start as dishwashers (or something similar) and become owners of successful restaurants.  There are examples of those folks in the DC region (including places referenced in DR.com)

There are also examples of owners stiffing the staff (some of which gets reported in the news and has been referenced in DR.com).  Tough job.  I suggest leave tips!!!

While I know the opening thread has to do with "advice from diners to bartenders" and the initial comments were about announcing when happy hour is about to end, the conversation skewed toward tipping.  As it applies to restaurants, BOH (back of the house) staff, and line managers possibly the largest impact on salaries in the industry and costs to the restaurants will be impacted by a Texas Judge just overruling a pay change instituted by the Obama administration.  

From what I've read this ruling is unlikely to be put in place due to the lateness of the date and change in administrations.  From what I've heard from headhunters in the industry...this change was going to severely impact many restaurants ....and now it won't go into effect.  Similarly it will impact the potential income of thousands of folks in the industry.  Tough business

 

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Should bartenders Announce that Happy Hour is about to end?  (which was the opening thread concept)

Yes.  I think they should.  Many bars get large crowds specifically because of HH and its a smart and appropriate act to let the bar know HH is about to end.  (At times, with large crowds that might be difficult to execute but its an appropriate thing to do).  There is another situation that mirrors this observation:  restaurant bars wherein the bar stays open longer than the kitchen should announce to bar patrons before the kitchen closes.   I'm aware of bartenders who think the opposite in both cases.  These individuals have a very poor concept of customer service.  (go into a restaurant bar about 10-15 minutes before the kitchen closes, and unwittingly put your food order in when its too late.  OOOF.  People hate that lack of common sense customer service)

As to the second element of this idea;  should HH be extended 15 minutes or so?   That is most typically in the control of the restaurant, not the bartenders (in my experience).  Modern POS (point of sale) systems (not cash registers) have all types of bells and whistles wherein pricing can be tied to the hour (in many cases).  Bartenders have leeway on this, but I'm going to leave it up to the establishment and their staff to come up with practices that suit them best. 

 

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I was at La Jambe recently and the (excellent) bartender was really great about letting everyone know that Happy Hour was about to end and giving people one last chance to order at the Happy Hour price.  And the bar itself was very good about printing out a separate small menu which made it clear which items were part of Happy Hour and at what price, which -- as genericeric notes above -- many places inexplicably do not, even otherwise great places (looking at you, Johnny's Half Shell!).

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The bartender at Vola's High Tide lounge was so cute the other night.  She came at what would have been the end of happy hour, and I was going to order another drink, but I had a few sips left in mine, but she came to tell us because of the flooding earlier on that part of King St, they were running happy hour all night so no rush, but also she thought my friend might want another drink.  She was incredibly nice.  It was pretty dead that night, but instead of being grumpy that it likely wasn't a great tipping night, she was really nice to us, and gave us great suggestions and was just all around awesome.

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This is slightly tangential to the topic in the opening thread and title:  Having a bit more to do with training staff Including bartenders.   I happened to run across this quote from a post by pizzaandbrew: 

Quote

Hiring people without experience isn't a problem.  If management is any good at all, they can train anybody how to carry a tray or take orders or learn about product; it is far harder to train people to smile, give a shit or finish a shift as strong as they started.  I've worked with/hired/employed more than a handful of brilliant folks from there who were and are real pros - including Greg Engert (NRG) and Nahem Simon (Jack Rose).  I also interacted with plenty of others who couldn't have been any less interested.  IMHO, it is always the person, not the experience that matters and hiring  for the quality of the person is a reflection of management.  Hiring for experience is lazy.

I so agree and our school staff ultimately believes the same.  We cover customer service elements in a dedicated class and sprinkle customer service elements in every other class, often relating them to the specifics of drinks, drink types, customers, the types of places certain drinks might be served, etc. We loved this Yelp review that references an old customer service technique applied by one of our grads at Crooked Run Brewing in Leesburg. 

He learned it in class.

The relevant paragraph:  

Quote

The bartender was super nice - while my daughters and I were enjoying our beverages, he went back to the bar and i had supposed he was just reading or something. But no, a few minutes later he came back with a handwritten map of Leesburg with his recommendations for restaurants and a good coffee place. Just a solid comfy welcoming place to enjoy some good brews. Wish I lived here!

Anyway we were "interviewed" by The Melting Pot, a radio show covering Arlington "food news" the other day.  The 26 minute interview includes half our school and half about The Westover Beer Garden a fun and quality place.  (I liked the Westover part of the interview.)

When the interviewer asked about "customer service" I found myself responding exactly like pizzaandbrew above.  We can teach 100 items, we can't teach "being nice" or as he also described...lasting through the entire shift, giving it your all.   In fact, I've heard and read the same thing from countless owners and managers.   Serious people in the front of the house part of the restaurant business can "train themselves up" and practice enough to change from introverted to welcoming...but that niceness and dedication is an internal quality.

Now what does all this have to do with diners giving advice to bartenders???   Probably not much.  On the other hand, if you find really friendly helpful bartenders and servers...they are worth their weight in gold.  Go back.  Revisit them.  They are providing service above and beyond the norm and it makes the visit more worthwhile.

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Stopped by the bar in a local restaurant last night for food and a drink - I knew the bartender in so far as I eat there 2-3 times a month and we recognize each other - she has always been friendly and conversant.  It's a relatively well-admired restaurant within the DR community and in my local community.  But for reasons I don't understand, the annoyance at the fact that I sat down at her bar last night was beyond clear.

I have come across my fair share of rude bartenders.  And bad bartenders.  Bartenders who were too busy to talk, didn't want to take my order, were too drunk to make me a drink (true story) - things happen.  But to be made to feel truly unwelcome at the bar is just not a good feeling, and it's one I've experienced a few times recently (maybe its me? I tend to tip decently well and try not to be rude or get drunk in public). 

Bartending is a job, I get it.  You have good days, bad days, great customers and ones that drive you insane.  And of course I can tell if the ones I'm familiar with are having a bad day, but my advice is to make sure you don't leave the customer feeling like the bad day is because of them.

I guess this could apply to many jobs, but there is something about the bartender rejection that tends to stick with you...

 

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On 4/19/2017 at 3:54 PM, genericeric said:

Stopped by the bar in a local restaurant last night for food and a drink - I knew the bartender in so far as I eat there 2-3 times a month and we recognize each other - she has always been friendly and conversant.  It's a relatively well-admired restaurant within the DR community and in my local community.  But for reasons I don't understand, the annoyance at the fact that I sat down at her bar last night was beyond clear.

I have come across my fair share of rude bartenders.  And bad bartenders.  Bartenders who were too busy to talk, didn't want to take my order, were too drunk to make me a drink (true story) - things happen.  But to be made to feel truly unwelcome at the bar is just not a good feeling, and it's one I've experienced a few times recently (maybe its me? I tend to tip decently well and try not to be rude or get drunk in public). 

Bartending is a job, I get it.  You have good days, bad days, great customers and ones that drive you insane.  And of course I can tell if the ones I'm familiar with are having a bad day, but my advice is to make sure you don't leave the customer feeling like the bad day is because of them.

I guess this could apply to many jobs, but there is something about the bartender rejection that tends to stick with you...

Out of curiosity what did and how did that bartender act to make you feel so uncomfortable??   I can't imagine experiencing something so uncomfortable nor can I envision what a bartender would do to convey that feeling.

....and if they act that way to more than one customer...they will soon start losing all their regulars and be out of a job.

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1 hour ago, DaveO said:

Out of curiosity what did and how did that bartender act to make you feel so uncomfortable??   I can't imagine experiencing something so uncomfortable nor can I envision what a bartender would do to convey that feeling.

....and if they act that way to more than one customer...they will soon start losing all their regulars and be out of a job.

You can tell when someone isn't happy to see you - the look on her face made it pretty obvious she was not thrilled I was there, followed by the menu tossed in my general direction, rushed order, complete lack of pleasantries, etc. kept up throughout the visit.  Everyone who sat down seemed subject to the same.

I've had that happen before at other bars shortly before closing (happened a few weeks ago at Maple in NYC despite a one drink promise from me to the bartender) before, but this was a. out of charcter for her and b. not near closing

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41 minutes ago, genericeric said:

You can tell when someone isn't happy to see you - the look on her face made it pretty obvious she was not thrilled I was there, followed by the menu tossed in my general direction, rushed order, complete lack of pleasantries, etc. kept up throughout the visit.  Everyone who sat down seemed subject to the same.

I assume she was having a bad day and manifested it upon all visitors.  Terrible thing to do.  A guaranteed way to lose customers.   

The other day a friend and I were at dinner sitting at a table.  An early dinner, place was not busy, before the typical evening crowd.  The waitstaff was mostly hanging in the back, bs'ing when we were seated.  Waiter took our order but repeated them from memory w/out writing them down.  Seeing that we repeated each item a second time   He completely missed/forgot on two items.  

When that lazy bum finally came around to check on us we repeated the two items he didn't deliver.  When hearing the items he looked up in surprise and said something like...somebody in the kitchen didn't prepare them.  Freaking liar.  If you don't punch in the order its not prepared. That is two people unlikely to return for years if ever.   Food quality was pretty good and value was excellent.  The restaurant loses because he was a liar.

 

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I really hate when people don't write down an order. It's inevitable they will forget an item or some kind of modification you make to a dish (no onion, sauce on the side, etc.). Or they'll come back to the table before entering it into the computer to double check: "You wanted the x, right?" "No, I wanted the y."

When they do get your order correct, am I supposed to be impressed you remembered it all? I'm not. I just want the food I ordered, and would prefer you write it down to ensure accuracy. You can't control the kitchen, but I'd like to at least know the order was entered correctly.

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Last evening I was at a bar/sports bar with a friend.  The bartender recognized me.  It had been 3 to 5 years since I had been at a particular place where he had worked.

Remarkable.  He mentioned he had a knack for remembering faces.  Must be and/or he supplements that knack w/effort.  He also gave what looked like excellent service across the bar to other patrons.  It appeared to be effortless.  The bar was busy but not overcrowded.  He mentioned where he had worked in the interim years.  It included casual and fine dining including one place that gets high ratings here for food and service.  He prefers casual.

Earlier in the day I interviewed/spoke w/a grad of our bartending school.  The grad has been in food and beverage management for some years.  In the course of the talk he mentioned that he had fired 5 of 6 bartenders during a little over 1 year.  

He said they gave okay (or worse) service. He and his place wanted exceptional.  They invest in substantial training.  Meanwhile that staff made what he and I felt were damn good incomes.  Also the nature of the bars and the effort required were sort of "cake" compared to many places.  That probably reflects a majority of great tippers for the volume of sales.

I've seen a fair number of people who come out Great American Restaurants (GAR).  It's noted for its training relative to so many establishments.

After all that training I've seen some that take it and provide exceptional service and others that remain mediocre.

The application of that or any training is what really counts and separates the wheat from the chaff.  

Last evening's bartender was "The Wheat".  Hope he makes a lot of $$ going forward.  He gets it and applies it.  In my experience that is the exception rather than the norm.

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My wife and I rarely dine at the bar (or just go for drinks, thus likely being 'at the bar'). But I want all of the bartenders out there making all of the cocktails out there for us to sip while we mull over menus to negotiate what we are going to get (no duplicates allowed, of course!) for dinner, we are in your debt. We appreciate your service, your craft, and your attention to detail. Some drinks are duds. Some are ok. Most are good to very good. Some are exceptional. Part of the fun of trying new cocktails is to figure out ingredients and combinations I like versus those I do not (for example, really not a fan of mezcal). I love trying your tried and true cocktails (many are new to me) as well as those that are fresh out your brain and in to my glass.

I may not make it over to the bar to let you know how great a cocktail it was or is, but I always mention an exceptional cocktail to our server and I hope those comments get back to you. So....thanks.

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