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WaPo-Dinner in DC for less than $100


sandynva

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surely i wasn't the only person who read this and thought "Amen! thank goodness someone is starting a discussion on this issue"?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/going-out-guide/wp/2017/06/21/why-its-so-hard-to-spend-less-than-100-for-two-at-dinner-in-washington/?utm_term=.dfe5a05c4fad

I'm not delighted by the high prices in and of themselves, but what bothers me most is the lack of value. i've had way too many mediocre or worse $14 cocktails or $20+ entrees that left me both hungry and nonplussed. It's one of the reasons i value this website--you all have helped me avoid some costly mistakes, and made sure that in the increasingly rare times i do get to go out i actually enjoy it. 

 

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Agreed. Matt and I used to go out more often in DC.  I have gotten a little gun shy, if I am going to spend that kind of money, I want it to be really good.  Put that with just how busy we are, the time to get into DC and the fact that I can cook fairly well, and we just don't get out of VA as often as in the past.  It's so hard even with lots of reviews to determine what we will think is really good.

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from the article:

“The prices of most restaurants is out of control,” says Ian Malcolm, 30, an information security engineer living in the District, who got a serious case of sticker shock after moving here from suburban Virginia. “I couldn't care less about how fresh or sourced the ingredients are or what farm they came from. Whatever makes the meal cheaper would be preferred.”  [emphasis mine]

I don't even know where to begin.

:unsure:

 

 

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58 minutes ago, farmer john said:

Ingredient sourcing is WAY down the list of reasons it is expensive to eat in DC. I would wager "high rent" and "what the market will bear" to be much more likely.

Yup. Exactly. You pay $16+ for Neapolitan pizza, $11 for Brussel sprout, and $35-40 for a steak regardless of quality. It's rents and what people with pay, also money going to corporate for larger groups, and paying for celebrity executive chefs.

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A little while ago I decided to stop commenting on most restaurant meals.  Its simply because of the price/value equation.  I simply don't believe the price value equation works anymore, specifically in pricier restaurants...but I suppose its true across the board.  The meals are not worth the cost.  They aren't that good. 

And then frankly I didn't want to write comments that pan the restaurants. So I've cut back on comments.  I haven't stopped dining out.  I do so less than in the past.  I simply feel like I'm paying too much for meals that aren't that great....not worth the cost.   I've experienced it at a number of restaurants that are well regarded in this forum and elsewhere.

Every so often I see comments about specific mark ups at specific restaurants.  There are mark ups across the board in every element of every meal.  That is the nature of the business.  If the food costs weren't marked up the restaurants would go out of business.  There have to be mark ups.  Its the nature of all businesses.  On the liqueur side mark ups have historically been higher than food and the references in the article to cocktail costs are quite accurate from a price to cost perspective.  For probably about 30+ years I've had this little calculator in my head that starts clicking away when at restaurants.  For some simpler dishes with ingredients with which I'm familiar I'll calculate my costs versus the restaurant cost.  That "calculator isn't 100% accurate.  I'm not purchasing at the same price, and not doing other elements exactly like the restaurants. 
Clearly though over the years markups have gone up.  Markedly so more recently.

Lousy fact of life in this environment.  Tyler Cowen has been keenly observant for many years.  There are far better values in many restaurants in strip malls around the suburbs, many of them ethnic, many of them using less than the prime most expensive ingredients, but they prepare these meals in ways that render them wondrous and the costs are dramatically less than dining in DC.

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4 hours ago, DaveO said:

many of them using less than the prime most expensive ingredients

Which does save money, but....

I care when my food comes from. I care that any animal I eat was humanely raised. I care that my vegetables and fruit don't destroy the world.

It does mean paying more for food, but I think Farmer John is right - location and what the market will bear increase the costs a lot more than food sourcing does.

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Interesting thread.

I go out to dinner with my wife to, more often than not, have time to really connect with her. Talk, catch up, have wonderful meandering conversations. Yes I am there for the food, the cocktails, the wine, all of that as well. It's all part of what makes up what I would like out of a dining experience. Sometimes you look for a lighter meal, sometimes it is pre-theater, or post-concert. Or maybe you do not feel like just cooking.

So, in a perfect world, I'd like to dine out....a lot. I live in Laurel, so walking to any restaurant is out the window. Sure, I can eat at (or get cary out from) local places that are good (Mango's, Curry Leaf, Pasta Plus), and certainly walk away for a meal that is less than $100 for the both of us. But it is not what I crave most often. So we save getting for from those places for once a week or so. On weekend nights we save for targeting places we really crave, or want to try out new and they are almost always in DC.

Are the DC places more expensive? Yes. Are they sometimes loud and obnoxious? Yes (and we tend to avoid the worst of those places). Could I dine out elsewhere for cheaper? Sure.  But a lot of these places can and do make things that are interesting to me and more often than not, hard to make at home, or are very time consuming to make at home. Or they have access to ingredients that I just cannot get, or would make me take great pains and expense to get (or would become old/stale/rotten before I used the rest of what I bought).

It is, to me, a matter of ordering well.

I can make a steak at home. It's very easy, and I have mastered it. I very rarely order it out. Same for hamburger. Same for a lot of basic preparations of meats and fishes. But, say, lobster bisque? I often order that because it is a pain in the ass to make. Can I do it? Yes. Is it hard? No. But it is time consuming. It is a many step process. It also involves processing the lobster carcass that you have as a result of eating said lobster for other reasons. Maybe I do not want lobster AND lobster as a part of a home dinner experience. It saves me a lot of money and hassle to order lobster bisque out. And this is just one simple example. Foods that involve hard to acquire ingredients (or difficult to handle) also make the list - think special birds, rabbits, frogs, organ meats, certain mushrooms, truffles, etc. At places that do this, you are also paying for house-cured, house-smoked, house-pickled, etc ingredients that take time, expertise and money to perfect.

The same holds true to wine lists and cocktails. For wine, restaurants are sourcing wines that are often difficult to obtain, or are bought at auction, or are held on to for periods of time until ready to drink. Proper stemware (polished to perfection). For cocktails, there are house made syrups and concoctions that go in to drinks. Ingredients that are often time consuming to make, so as to perfect that $12-$16 cocktail you are slurping down.

Are some of these restaurants better at this, or worse at that in the greater scheme of the perfect package of delivering to you a great dinining experience? Sure. But that is what this website is for - to sift through all of that and figure out what fits your deeply held desires for a good dining experience.

Do I want to pay $100 or less for a great dining experience? Sure, who doesn't?! But I am willing to step up and pay for what I want out of the experience. I am sure I could cut my tab at a lot of dining out experiences by cutting out all the booze, saying no to desert and keeping it really simple. But that is not what ***I*** want out of the experience. Your desires are, I am sure, different from mine.

I can and do make pretty darn good food at home. I can craft a good cocktail. I am a wine nerd, and I know how to source the good stuff and have the patience to cellar it appropriately. I am sure (and I have done so many times) I can source difficult ingredients, treat them well, get smart about skills I am currently weak on and serve my wife and I an exceptional meal right at home.

But that is not the point of my desire to go out and dine well.

Ah well, this is one of those topics that has endless twists and turns and, in the end, is a very personal thing. Do what you like. Go to places you like. If you don't like paying too much for dining out, this site is a fantastic resource for how to accomplish that. Good luck, eat well and stay on the hunt from great food and drink.

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6 hours ago, Pool Boy said:

 Do what you like. Go to places you like. If you don't like paying too much for dining out, this site is a fantastic resource for how to accomplish that. Good luck, eat well and stay on the hunt from great food and drink.

Wise words. Thank you.

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