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#1 plunk

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 04:54 PM

I am very fond of all kinds of "brown liquor", but I do not know much about gin. I like the occasional gin and soda or gimlet, but that is the extent of my knowledge. It is time for me to learn more of this interesting alcohol. And what better way to learn than with the quintessential cocktail - the martini. So, I am asking for you to help me make a classic martini at home (I know the recipe, just don't know about the quality of the ingredients).

For starters, what is a good, middle-of-the-road, not overly-expensive gin? I am aware of Beefeater, Tanqueray, Bombay, Hendricks and Plymouth but wouldn't know the difference between them.

How about vermouth? All I know is Martini&Rossi.

Is it okay to use jarred cocktail olives? Indeed, would any other olives even be appropriate?

I've heard that a dash or two of orange bitters may be fitting. Thoughts?

#2 Waitman

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 05:11 PM

I believe, almost more strongly than I believe in my family and my country, that any martini consisting of any liquids other than gin and vermouth must have a modifier appended to it: vodka martini, dirty martini, whatever. (Appletinis and sakitinis are abominations and should not be mentioned) But, since I believ strongly in my country, and the freedom that rings there, put a dash of bitters in. Just call it a "bitter martini" or something. My first successful mating with a martini-like substance was made with gin, vermouth and just a smidge of scotch and served on the rocks. It was called a silver bullet, and like that first taste of junk backstage with Kurt at the Playpen, it sent me down a path that changed my life, and not always for the better.

I'm a Bombay man, myself. Very Gin-y, ie strongly juniper. Hendricks is a new-wave gin, engineered for the vodka crowd if you ask me but well done, lots of "botanicals," and bit of cucumber. Good for a martini, probably too subtle for a G&T.

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#3 Heather

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 05:15 PM

Bombay Dry Gin, or Tanqueray in a pinch. I favored Tanqueray for a long time, but it tastes too...something. Floral, maybe. I prefer lemon to olives, but cocktail olives are appropriate. Noilly Prat vermouth.

I like Hendricks, but not for martinis. Tanqueray Rangpur makes a good martini, but only with lemon. No bitters.

I think I'll go have one right now. :lol:

#4 Waitman

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 05:23 PM

Found some tasting notes from a freelance piece I did -- in the sense of writing, not in the sense of selling -- on gin.

O, hell, who am I kidding. I just ran over to Timberlakes and had ate eithg eigjt nine martinis.

I'm sure others will have different opinions.

Old School

Bombay: Still the benchmark gin to my taste. Lots of juniper, aggressive herbs, slightly exotic nose…not for the timid. Stands up to any mixer.

Boodles: Lots of lemon and a sandlewood fragrance. At first sniff if seemed flat and uninteresting, but chilled and backed with a bit of vermouth, it acquired a floral nose and an almost sweet taste. A true velvet hammer.

Tanqueray: The most popular premium gin. Crisp, clean, citrus-y, probably the perfect base of a great gin and tonic.

Plymouth: Clean, sweet but with a full juniper nose, but lost its way once chilled and diluted. For martinis only.

New Age

Hendricks: The best argument yet for pulling back on the juniper and letting the other flavors shine. I’m not sure if it’s the cucumber and rose petals, or the other, less sexy botanicals that give this gin its depth and complexity, but it avoids the sometimes resinous taste of traditional gins without losing its soul.

Bombay Sapphire: More than just a toned-down version of its big sister, this gin is sweet, assertive and floral, but with a spicy undercurrent and a personality of its own.

Tanqueray No. TEN: Tanqueray lite: simple, straightforward, lemony, delicious. Where is the juniper?

Junipero: “Made by hand” in San Francisco, this struck me as less subtle than bland. While the juniper is geared down, in deference to contemporary tastes, nothing really steps up to take over. Nice package, though.

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#5 zoramargolis

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 05:28 PM

I don't drink Martinis very often, but when I do I want Boodles. M&R or NP vermouth. Twist and an olive.

Boodles makes a smooth G&T, too. "The velvet hammer" describes it perfectly.

#6 heatherc

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 05:50 PM

I don't drink Martinis very often, but when I do I want Boodles. M&R or NP vermouth. Twist and an olive.

Boodles makes a smooth G&T, too. "The velvet hammer" describes it perfectly.

drop everything and go to Citronelle. Have Derek make you a Martini. You'll never look back. If I wasn't sick I'd join you for one.
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#7 Jlock

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 06:04 PM

I prefer a Beefeater Dry Gin Martini - up with a twist.
Best Ever: in NYC at the infamous "Milk and Honey" - truly an incredible beverage in an old school martini-appropriate setting!
:lol:

"Make it with a layer of ice this time! It's Martini Time!"
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#8 Waitman

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 06:06 PM

drop everything and go to Citronelle. Have Derek make you a Martini. You'll never look back. If I wasn't sick I'd join you for one.

Derek was actually kind enough to help out on my unpublished gin article -- he impartted wisdom and created a cocktail that was quite good, though not a martini. As I recall, he uses a more classic gin/vermouth ratio than most 4-1 or so, and spikes it with something odd. Lillet?

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#9 Mrs. B

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 06:26 PM

I prefer a Beefeater Dry Gin Martini - up with a twist.

This is my gin of choice as well but Hendricks when I can get it/afford it runs a close second. I really didn't care for the Junipero, the flavor seemed muddled but maybe it was just me :lol:
I really despise Tanqueray in a g&t and will resort drinking vodka if that is the only other choice. I think Tanqueray is way too sweet.

#10 Heather

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 07:35 PM

Regular Tanqueray doesn't bug me like that, but Tanq Ten is much too sweet. That's a gin for someone who "doesn't like" gin. Hendricks is great in cocktails but not my favorite for martinis. It makes a delicious Pegu Club, as I discovered tonight.

Derek's martinis are excellent and IIRC Waitman is right about the Lillet.

#11 brettashley01

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 08:35 PM

I like Vodka martinis. Ketel one. Dirty. Loves me those olives

#12 Banco

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 10:16 PM

I prefer a Beefeater Dry Gin Martini - up with a twist.

If I were gay I'd ask you out, so true does this ring to my own sensibilities on this important matter.

Somebody mentioned "old school" without mentioning Beefeater. With respect, this was an error. Beefeater, and perhaps also Plymouth, is the classic martini gin. And Bombay I actually think of as rather soft; the slogan, "the gentle gin," is accurate. It also occupies the intermediate position in proof among the big three, Beefeater being the lowest and Tanqueray the highest. If Beefeater is not available--which I've encountered in a surprising number of otherwise reputable establishments--Bombay is just fine.

Ironically, Sapphire, Tanqueray Ten, and other such marks are more expensive versions of their progenitors but actually are more appropriate for those accustomed to lemonade or Sprite. Their treacly and mawkish overtones tire a sensitive palate far before inebriation begins to set in. And what's the point of that?

But despite my stodginess, I love Hendrick's. It's a marvelous gin with oysters, which tend to have the same cucumber and briny overtones that are so prominent in this Scottish gin.

Incidentally, the only alteration to gin and vermouth that I think is worthwhile is the martini favored by Luis Bunuel, which was flavored with a few drops of pastis, such as Ricard or Pernod. Any martini-lover who hasn't tried this variation owes it to himself to do so.

#13 Mark Slater

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 02:46 AM

I like Vodka martinis. Ketel one. Dirty. Loves me those olives

That's very nice, but vodka isn't a martini. Gin is a martini. What you describe is just vodka on the rocks with some nasty olive juice in it. BLECHHHHHH. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, just don't call it a martini.)

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#14 jparrott

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 07:54 AM

Ironically, Sapphire, Tanqueray Ten, and other such marks are more expensive versions of their progenitors but actually are more appropriate for those accustomed to lemonade or Sprite. Their treacly and mawkish overtones tire a sensitive palate far before inebriation begins to set in. And what's the point of that?

Wow. Extremely well said.

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#15 purplesachi

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 08:19 AM

so i see that citronelle has been mentioned as a great place to get a great (real) martini. are there others?

#16 jparrott

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 08:25 AM

Corduroy (like brother, like brother), the Mayflower.

Lots of places, if you're willing to walk them through it, though that gets awkwarder and awkwarder ("no, more vermouth, no, don't shake it, got any orange bitters?").

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#17 Waitman

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 09:12 AM

so i see that citronelle has been mentioned as a great place to get a great (real) martini. are there others?

The Palm for a classic version.

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#18 ol_ironstomach

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 09:19 AM

Pooh-pooh it as you might, but the original Martinez called for Old Tom Gin which was a sweet gin, not a London dry. Tanqueray is probably a pretty good fit from what is currently available, although I've seen some recipes call for a mix of Tanqueray with Dutch Genever. As for the sweet (red) vermouth, I've had a hard time using anything but Carpano Antico since Derek Brown showed it to us at one of the pre-opening Agraria events.

More on Martini history here. Jerry Thomas' original recipe here, along with a typical modern redaction.

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#19 Heather

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 09:37 AM

More on Martini history here. Jerry Thomas' original recipe here, along with a typical modern redaction.

Interesting, but I am having a hard time imagining drinking one of those before dinner. Maybe for brunch. The pastis variation sounds intriguing.

I like Bombay for the almond notes.

#20 lackadaisi

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 10:11 AM

If I were gay I'd ask you out,

I truly hope he would turn you down. But, I am actually a bit too scared to ask him whether he would choose a martini over me (and, I don't know if he could deal with me without the martini).

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#21 Sthitch

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 10:16 AM

While I agree with most of what you have written about Martini's, I have to disagree with the following:

But, since I believ strongly in my country, and the freedom that rings there, put a dash of bitters in. Just call it a "bitter martini" or something.

Prior to the Second World War, only drinks that contained bitters were considered cocktails, all others were just mixed drinks. The original martini recipes (and its already mentioned predecessor the Martinez) were made with a dash of orange bitters. I find that a martini made with a few dashes of bitters to be a more complete drink than just Gin and Vermouth.

As for Gins, I am a big fan of No. 209 for martini's, it is a full flavored gin, with a nice balance of juniper. As for dry vermouth I really like Vya, it is the most drinkable of any vermouth I have ever tried.

#22 The Hersch

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 10:21 AM

Somebody mentioned "old school" without mentioning Beefeater. With respect, this was an error. Beefeater, and perhaps also Plymouth, is the classic martini gin. And Bombay I actually think of as rather soft; the slogan, "the gentle gin," is accurate. It also occupies the intermediate position in proof among the big three, Beefeater being the lowest and Tanqueray the highest.

While I agree with much of what you say, I don't think you've got this quite right. I believe Bombay is 86 proof, Beefeater 94, and Tanqueray 94.6. Bombay Sapphire is 94, but rather a waste. I don't have an array of gin bottles handy, but I think these numbers are correct. Junipero, which I happen to think makes a lovely martini, is a hefty 98.6 proof.

That said, Beefeater is my preferred martini gin. Vya dry vermouth is the best dry vermouth I've ever had, and is excellent in a martini, although I usually use a bit less of it (about 5-1) than, say, Noilly Prat (the runner-up, mixed 4-1) because it's so assertive. Too bad Vya isn't more widely available. Of late, I find myself favoring the Gibson cocktail over the classic martini-with-olive. I've started making my own cocktail onions, which are terrific. More about that here.

Some of the cheap gins aren't bad. Gordon's is probably the best of the major brands. Calvert-Woodley's 94-proof house brand is really quite good, especially for $12.99/1.75L. Pour it into a Beefeater bottle for your next party!

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#23 Banco

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 10:30 AM

I truly hope he would turn you down. But, I am actually a bit too scared to ask him whether he would choose a martini over me (and, I don't know if he could deal with me without the martini).

It'll be our secret!

#24 Banco

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 10:41 AM

While I agree with much of what you say, I don't think you've got this quite right. I believe Bombay is 86 proof, Beefeater 94, and Tanqueray 94.6.

That's exactly what I thought, too, but then I checked a few pictures online, and they show "40%" on the Beefeater bottle. Yet I also remember Beefeater being higher proof than that. Could Pernod-Ricard, who I believe distributes Beefeater, have changed the proof recently?

ETA: This may shed some light on the proof confusion. It appears the US export version is 94 proof, the UK version 80.

#25 Jlock

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 10:47 AM

If I were gay I'd ask you out, so true does this ring to my own sensibilities on this important matter.

Uh...thank you...I think? That's quite an...ur...flattering statement...

I truly hope he would turn you down. But, I am actually a bit too scared to ask him whether he would choose a martini over me (and, I don't know if he could deal with me without the martini).

Now, now. To quote one of the great drinking enthusiasts of the 20th Century:
"Twas a woman who drove me to drink, and I never had the courtesy to thank her for it."
-- W.C. Fields

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#26 The Hersch

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 10:53 AM

That's exactly what I thought, too, but then I checked a few pictures online, and they show "40%" on the Beefeater bottle. Yet I also remember Beefeater being higher proof than that. Could Pernod-Ricard, who I believe distributes Beefeater, have changed the proof recently?

My hunch is that you were looking at pictures of European gin bottles. Everything seems to be sold at a lower proof over there. The major brands of Scotch that are 86 proof in the US are all 80 proof in Europe.

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#27 Waitman

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 10:59 AM

While I agree with most of what you have written about Martini's, I have to disagree with the following:

Prior to the Second World War, only drinks that contained bitters were considered cocktails, all others were just mixed drinks. The original martini recipes (and its already mentioned predecessor the Martinez) were made with a dash of orange bitters. I find that a martini made with a few dashes of bitters to be a more complete drink than just Gin and Vermouth.

As for Gins, I am a big fan of No. 209 for martini's, it is a full flavored gin, with a nice balance of juniper. As for dry vermouth I really like Vya, it is the most drinkable of any vermouth I have ever tried.

I stand corrected. And, now that I think about it, bitters is likely the third ingredient to Derek's much-praised concoction.

Re: 209, my firm acquired a client associated with it and they send over a bottle for us to sample and -- after a brief tasting before a conference call in case they asked about it (they did -- I used the world "botanicals" in my description and won major brownie points for sounding like I knew what I was talking about) it's been sitting in the fridge. And, after a tough day, I pour about two ounces in a plastic cup from the water cooler to brace myself for the cold wait at the bus-stop. It's quite good, and I think would make an excellent martini. More nuanced than my beloved Bombay, I think, without becoming bland (ever try Van Gough?) and Mrs. B would like it quite a bit. Hard to find, though.

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#28 Banco

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 11:11 AM

I almost forgot about Citadelle, a very elegant French gin with a pronounced anise overtone (which I happen to like, ergo my penchant for Luis Bunuel's pastis-tinged martini).

#29 MBK

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 11:16 AM

I almost forgot about Citadelle, a very elegant French gin with a pronounced anise overtone (which I happen to like, ergo my penchant for Luis Bunuel's pastis-tinged martini).

mmm... Citadelle... now that makes a good G+T...
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#30 Sthitch

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 11:34 AM

Re: 209, my firm acquired a client associated with it and they send over a bottle for us to sample and -- after a brief tasting before a conference call in case they asked about it (they did -- I used the world "botanicals" in my description and won major brownie points for sounding like I knew what I was talking about) it's been sitting in the fridge. And, after a tough day, I pour about two ounces in a plastic cup from the water cooler to brace myself for the cold wait at the bus-stop. It's quite good, and I think would make an excellent martini. More nuanced than my beloved Bombay, I think, without becoming bland (ever try Van Gough?) and Mrs. B would like it quite a bit. Hard to find, though.

I agree that No. 209 is difficult to find, but not nearly as difficult as Martin Miller's Westbourne Strength, which in my opinion makes the best Martini I have ever had. But it is very difficult to find, and I have yet to find it in the city. I had to procure my bottle in New Jersey. As for Van Gogh, I have yet to try it, but would look forward to doing so.

#31 deangold

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 11:37 AM

I am a long time gin martini drinker (my dad taught me to make him martini's, then Tanquerey was really good and hard to find stuff) when I was probably about 10 years old. Like many a thing, I have strong feelings about Martini's. Here are the main ones...

The key to a good martini in my book:
Lots of ice. Everything must be cold. Prechill the glass with ice and water, but then dry it. Or keep your martini glass in the fridge. Not the freezer.

USE VERMOUTH or else its a freaking shot of gin!

Don't use Vodka and call it a Martini. Its a vodka drink then: A Vodka Martini. Perhaps a better name is a Vodka, Martini style but we have more chance of ending the use of the word foodie than getting this usage in place. A Martini is always GIN

Don't use flavored spirits and expect it to be a martini. Now I do like a shot of hangar one lime on the rocks with vermouth and an olive or onion or 5. But it ain't no martini. Its also only for when I'm too tired to appreciate the subtle flavors of gin.

Use a Stainless Steel mixing can. If you use a glass mixing glass, the glass will take time to chill and the dilution factors will be off.

Martini = olives
Onions = Gibson (named after the rather large breasted Gibson girls, the onions are said to resemble their ample figures. Or maybe they pickled heir breasts. Who knows?)
Dirty = you really don't want to taste the gin. Friends don't let friends destroy good gin. Dirty is perfectly fine in a Vodka Martini to give it some distinctive flavor.
Twist = a dance made popular by Chubby checker in the 60's I believe. Not a thing that belongs in a fine gin. The level of botanicals should be set by the distiller, adding lemon or lime peel destroys all that fine work. Twists are properly found in many a cocktail like a Aperol Spritz or a Negroni. But not a Martini. PLEASE!

Bitters are historically correct but I am not convinced.

Stirred, not shaken. This is what Bond (Flemming) should have said. Shakers bruise the gin, leave little bits of ice behind that dilute the drink as they melt etc etc. - or - on the rocks. But if you drink a martini on the rocks, drink it rapidly as the ice will continue to melt.


Method...
Take a deep breath and contemplate the task in front of you. Visualize each step. Be thou of zen... be at one with your martini. Work quickly but gently. Add ice to the can, enough to rise above the level of the gin and other ingredients. Then pour the gin in gently. Moving to a planet with lesser gravity so it pours more gently would be excessive. Add vermouth- use good stuff like Quady Vya, Lillet (for a french touch). I do not think much of Martini & Rossi or Cinzano, but the latter is better. Noilly Prat is for chasing away bothersome cats. Dry is 5 to 1 gin to vermouth. Normal is 3 to 1. Now take a bar spoon and stir the drink until the outside of the can frosts. The drink is not just at 32 degrees and the ice melt is perfect. Any more stirring only dilutes the drink or bruises the gin. Strain (Using a standard stainless steel bar strainer to keep the ice out, if you had shaken the drink it will have ice chips and the strainer won't keep these out) into the aforementioned chilled glass and garnish with some good olives: Santa Barbara Olive Co or Divina are my favorites. Pimento stuffed olives only please. Take a sniff of the drink before sipping- smell the botanicals. This is why you are drinking gin. Sip slowly. Tip your bartender well or pat your self on the back if you are making it yourself. If a SO is making the drink for you, find an appropriate way to show thanks.


Here are my current favs...

Raj - made by Cadenhead and flavored with a nice array of botanicals including saffron. Really superior stuff, nicely complex. This makes a well balanced drink that is at once subtle and distinctly flavored. The color is a little yellow because of the saffron.

209 - made in California. Very bracing due to the grain content. Tastes like the Tanquerey of my youth before it became a mass market brand. Makes a power packed martini. I prefer it as a Gibson over a martini as the vinegar of the onions work better than the fermentation and brine flavors associated with an olive. But 209 other than on the rocks straight or in a martini or Gibson is undrinkable to me. Horrible Bloody Mary or G&T.

Brokers- I prefer it to Boodles (the gin it was based on, the owner was brand manage for Boodles back when he had an income) because it is stronger in aromatics.

Plymouth is not a favorite personally but it is a really distinctive London style. I find it fades a little when made into a martini and has a lower flavor profile then I like.

Junipero I love on the rocks as is. It has a nice mintyness but I don't like it in a martini. Haven't tried it as a G&T as I never drink them, but I suspect it might work.

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#32 The Hersch

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 11:51 AM

Lots of ice. Everything must be cold. Prechill the glass with ice and water, but then dry it. Or keep your martini glass in the fridge. Not the freezer.

Why do you say not the freezer? I think the colder the glass, the better. Do you object to the frosting of the glass?

Use a Stainless Steel mixing can. If you use a glass mixing glass, the glass will take time to chill and the dilution factors will be off.

Silver is best. I use a little silver cocktail shaker, but swirl rather than shaking. I think the "bruising" thing is hooey, though. The problem with shaking a martini is aeration. Of course if by bruising you mean aeration, then we agree.

Raj
209

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Tell me, thou little bird that singest,

Who taught my grief to thee?


#33 Banco

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 11:54 AM

A fine treatise, but I have to disagree with the following:

Twist = a dance made popular by Chubby checker in the 60's I believe. Not a thing that belongs in a fine gin. The level of botanicals should be set by the distiller, adding lemon or lime peel destroys all that fine work.

Actually, that's precisely why I generally don't like olives in a martini: 99% of the olives a bartender is likely to put in your martini are too big, too briny, and too strongly flavored for what should be a subtly balanced concoction. A twist is less invasive and less risky. (At home, however, sometimes I use a couple of black, oil cured provencal olives--that can be very nice indeed.)

#34 brian

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 11:56 AM

If the goal is to incorporate as little water as possible to the gin when icing it, why not start with gin in the freezer? Or, if a small bit of water is desirable, find the perfect amount and add it rather than the imperfection of stirring or shaking the drink.

#35 Sthitch

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 12:00 PM

If the goal is to incorporate as little water as possible to the gin when icing it, why not start with gin in the freezer? Or, if a small bit of water is desirable, find the perfect amount and add it rather than the imperfection of stirring or shaking the drink.

Below freezing the gin would be too cold, and the subtle flavors would be lost. Keeping in the refrigerator might be an option, but I do not have room to keep both my gins and my perishables chilled, so I cede the refrigerator space to the later. If you stir quickly the amount of melting will be minimal.

#36 deangold

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 12:03 PM

Why do you say not the freezer? I think the colder the glass, the better. Do you object to the frosting of the glass?

The ideal for me is a drink at the melting point of the ice... 32 degrees. Freezing the glass will just make the drink colder and reduce the aromatics. But we are talking a minimal difference here compared to shaking.

Silver is best. I use a little silver cocktail shaker, but swirl rather than shaking. I think the "bruising" thing is hooey, though. The problem with shaking a martini is aeration. Of course if by bruising you mean aeration, then we agree.

We agree mostly. The ice chips are unacceptable. If you swirl with gentle hands you can avoid the ice chips. I also want to bring the gin down to temp ASAP to get the minimal melt. so a swirl may be a little slower than a stir. Again, fine points that may have no statistical meaning. If silver is a better conductor of temperature than SS, use it. All I need is a metal can, thin walled that conducts heat quickly. We coould always do a comparative blind tasting but I would also doubt the statistical reliability (or ability to work the next day) if we use a large sample size.

Where do you find these?

On the bar at Dino of course! 209 is currently distributed by Bacchus. Don't know about the Raj. Probably either Winebow or Constatine. Any reasonably friendly spirit shop in DC can order them. Cleveland Park Wines & Spirits have the 209 most of the time.

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#37 Heather

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 12:03 PM

Actually, that's precisely why I generally don't like olives in a martini: 99% of the olives a bartender is likely to put in your martini are too big, too briny, and too strongly flavored for what should be a subtly balanced concoction.

Agreed. Use olives if you want a drink like tastes like olives, which can be good. A twist accents the gin, instead of competing or drowning it out.

#38 deangold

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 12:09 PM

A fine treatise, but I have to disagree with the following:

Actually, that\'s precisely why I generally don\'t like olives in a martini: 99% of the olives a bartender is likely to put in your martini are too big, too briny, and too strongly flavored for what should be a subtly balanced concoction. A twist is less invasive and less risky. (At home, however, sometimes I use a couple of black, oil cured provencal olives--that can be very nice indeed.)

That's why I specify Divina or SB. SB is a pale second. Diving Mt Athos with Red Pepper is in a living, unpasteurized brine with subtlety and complexity. If I cannot get a good olive, I drink a Gibson. But to me, the twist alters the botanical balance of the gin and thus I don't care for it. But to each their own. We do have twists at Dino and do not throw the drink in your face if you order it this way. :lol:

Another thought, the drink was originally made with an olive. So in that sense, it is what it is. If you like a twist, then you are not drinking the classic martini but something else. I guess the same could be said of me as I don't use bitters. It originally had them.

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#39 deangold

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 12:13 PM

If the goal is to incorporate as little water as possible to the gin when icing it, why not start with gin in the freezer? Or, if a small bit of water is desirable, find the perfect amount and add it rather than the imperfection of stirring or shaking the drink.

The goal is to make the right balance of water to spirits. If you pour room temperature gin into a SS mixing can filled to the point where after melt, the ice is still at least an inch above the liquid, you obtain this perfect amount of melt with no measuring necessary. Further proof that a randomly generated universe (or a loving God) makes for human happiness in simple ways.

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#40 Mark Slater

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 12:37 PM

Thank heaven that no one has mentioned the most disturbing new developement in vodka: Trump Premium Vodka.
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#41 alan7147

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 12:42 PM

Where do you find these?

Raj can be found at Macarthur/Bassin's. It is quite expensive as far a gin goes, usually $55-60 a bottle. I am guessing it is the saffron infusion that drives the price up.

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#42 Banco

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 12:46 PM

That's why I specify Divina or SB. SB is a pale second. Diving Mt Athos with Red Pepper is in a living, unpasteurized brine with subtlety and complexity. If I cannot get a good olive, I drink a Gibson. But to me, the twist alters the botanical balance of the gin and thus I don't care for it. But to each their own. We do have twists at Dino and do not throw the drink in your face if you order it this way. :lol:

Another thought, the drink was originally made with an olive. So in that sense, it is what it is. If you like a twist, then you are not drinking the classic martini but something else. I guess the same could be said of me as I don't use bitters. It originally had them.

I didn't even know a martini was originally made with bitters before reading this thread. (And frankly, I'm still not entirely convinced. It seems "classic" is, when it comes to the martini, a rather *ahem* fluid term indeed.)

#43 Sthitch

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 01:53 PM

I didn't even know a martini was originally made with bitters before reading this thread. (And frankly, I'm still not entirely convinced. It seems "classic" is, when it comes to the martini, a rather *ahem* fluid term indeed.)

You can read about the history of the Martini here, or if you want some additional information on the use of bitters in classic cocktails (including the Martini) you can pick-up a copy of either The Dale Degroff's Craft of the Cocktail, or The Art of the Bar: Cocktails Inspired by Classics which was written by the bartenders of the Absinthe Brasserie & Bar in San Francisco. I should also add that you can get a copy of the Savoy Cocktail Book that was originally published in the 1930's you will find that their Dry Martini Cocktail contains orange bitters. If I were at home I might be able to give you quotes from these and other sources.

#44 pidgey

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 02:20 PM

Stirred, not shaken. This is what Bond (Flemming) should have said. Shakers bruise the gin, leave little bits of ice behind that dilute the drink as they melt etc etc. - or - on the rocks. But if you drink a martini on the rocks, drink it rapidly as the ice will continue to melt.

In truth, Bond never drank a classic martini. His drink is vodka and gin.

#45 porcupine

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 03:05 PM

Stirred, not shaken. This is what Bond (Flemming) should have said.

Not at all. He was trying to make a subtle point that Bond was refined enough to know the difference, but iconoclastic enough not to care.

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#46 christopher

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 03:36 PM

Not at all. He was trying to make a subtle point that Bond was refined enough to know the difference, but iconoclastic enough not to care.

Try one at Eve made by Tammy no matter what your brand or taste. I have just begun drinking martini's again after a long ago bad experience so my experience is limited but in addition to loving Tammy's martini's I hear a lot of Eve customers rave about the martini's at Eve and, in particular, Tammy's. .

#47 Hannah

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 03:51 PM

Not at all. He was trying to make a subtle point that Bond was refined enough to know the difference, but iconoclastic enough not to care.

There's a fairly long aside in one of the early books (prob. Casino Royale, but I can't swear to it) about how Bond prefers shaking specifically because of the bruising effect.

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#48 deangold

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 05:14 PM

Not at all. He was trying to make a subtle point that Bond was refined enough to know the difference, but iconoclastic enough not to care.

But still wrong! :unsure:
All shaking does is dilute the spirits to the point where you lose the distinctive taste. Mixing gin and Vodka has the same effect. So it seems that Mr. Bond just wanted to get fucked up with as little taste as possible and yet still not giving up on his English Gin... :lol:

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#49 DonRocks

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 05:26 PM

Why on earth would anyone drink a Martini instead of a Gimlet?

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#50 MBK

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 05:32 PM

Why on earth would anyone drink a Martini instead of a Gimlet?

Amen. As long as the gimlet is made with real lime juice, and not Rose's...
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