cjsadler

Domaine de la Pepiere Muscadet

97 posts in this topic

So come on folks, give it a try. Next time you taste a wine, think about what you are tasting and write down in general terms what you think it tastes like. Post or talk to other people and see what they think. Over time you will be able to detect certain things that you never thought you could. Hell I did it.
It might be fun (and a great learning experience for some of us, like me) if we tried something that was once attempted on another food board (but bombed): pick a wine each month that's available at a store or two around here. Would be great if someone (or someones) knowledgeable here could pick wines that really express a certain terroir/style/varietal (and explain why and what to try to pick up on). People can then try the wine and post their thoughts on it...

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It might be fun (and a great learning experience for some of us, like me) if we tried something that was once attempted on another food board (but bombed): pick a wine each month that's available at a store or two around here. Would be great if someone (or someones) knowledgeable here could pick wines that really express a certain terroir/style/varietal (and explain why and what to try to pick up on). People can then try the wine and post their thoughts on it...
That's a great idea. I have some thoughts on good, pretty cheap, archetypal, reasonably available stuff we could work with. And if availability becomes an issue, we can always work through Riley :o .

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That's a great idea. I have some thoughts on good, pretty cheap, archetypal, reasonably available stuff we could work with. And if availability becomes an issue, we can always work through Riley :o .
Hmmmm. The 07 Avondale rose should be appearing any day now. :lol:

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No...that's not really an archetype. The first one I had in mind was 2005 Domaine de la Pepiere Muscadet. It's available at Whole Foods and a few other places.

And there's still a good bit of 06 rose available. And it's goooood right now :o . '07 in late May, if we're lucky.

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The first one I had in mind was 2005 Domaine de la Pepiere Muscadet. It's available at Whole Foods and a few other places.

That is a very good choice. Is it available in the tasting room at the FLWF?

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That is a very good choice. Is it available in the tasting room at the FLWF?
No. The muscadet on the enomatic at WF is the Luneau-Papin Muscadet Clos des Noelles "Terroir des Schistes" "Excelsior" 2002. Great wine, but a bit impenetrable right now. It would be fun to line up the various Excelsior bottlings (the schist, microschist, and gneiss bottlings), but they're not all available in this area. Nor are all the Bossards. Pepiere is classic, classy muscadet (remember, NOT muscat!), $9.99 retail, and relatively well available.

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It's available at Whole Foods and a few other places.
Anywhere in Maryland? [fyi: it is that small state on the other side of the Potomac River.]

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Contrary to everything you've ever heard or read, there really is only one kind of wine in the world: The kind you like.
I am with you there

On another note, I tried what MDT suggested. I had wine last night. I won't bother witrh the name, but I tried to pick out "notes" etc., I couldn't. It just tasted good. (Well, it was smooth, not tannc at all, but that doesn't describe much) So I respectfully disagree, unless you are taught, or you have an insured nose and tongue like Parker, or you are just sensitive to minute tastes, I do not necessarily think it is possible for everyone to be able to describe a wine or all wines. Sometimes they just taste good and you like them.

Jake, I think your idea is a great one. Make a firm decision on what you would like us to try. I will look around and post all the stores I find it at if you would like.

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I am with you there

On another note, I tried what MDT suggested. I had wine last night. I won't bother witrh the name, but I tried to pick out "notes" etc., I couldn't. It just tasted good. (Well, it was smooth, not tannc at all, but that doesn't describe much) So I respectfully disagree, unless you are taught, or you have an insured nose and tongue like Parker, or you are just sensitive to minute tastes, I do not necessarily think it is possible for everyone to be able to describe a wine or all wines.

One of the best ways to start is to think of other wines it reminds you of. This is actually a frustration I get with some SA producers--they don't spend enough time seeking out and analyzing non-SA analogues.
Jake, I think your idea is a great one. Make a firm decision on what you would like us to try. I will look around and post all the stores I find it at if you would like.
It's Sadler's idea :o . But let's do the Pepiere while we're still in the "R" months. The label is similar to this one: 50201.jpg.

Current vintage is 2005, but past vintages are wonderful too.

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It's Sadler's idea :o . But let's do the Pepiere while we're still in the "R" months. The label is similar to this one: .

Current vintage is 2005, but past vintages are wonderful too.

Cool. Hopefully we can figure out some specific places to get a bottle (I find the WF selections vary quite a bit from store to store) and then reconvene to taste and post about it. Jake, can you start us off next week with some info about the wine, the region and why the one you've chosen is archetypal?

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I am with you there

On another note, I tried what MDT suggested. I had wine last night. I won't bother witrh the name, but I tried to pick out "notes" etc., I couldn't. It just tasted good. (Well, it was smooth, not tannc at all, but that doesn't describe much) So I respectfully disagree, unless you are taught, or you have an insured nose and tongue like Parker, or you are just sensitive to minute tastes, I do not necessarily think it is possible for everyone to be able to describe a wine or all wines. Sometimes they just taste good and you like them.

Jake, I think your idea is a great one. Make a firm decision on what you would like us to try. I will look around and post all the stores I find it at if you would like.

I think you are trying to be too specific. Think in generalities and what it reminds you of when or what you expect when you are tasting. Think of things like red, black, tropical, or citrus fruit and if you can narrow down from there. Does it taste like jam? Does it taste spicy? Does is taste herbal? Forget about which spice and what herb.

You may need an insured nose to detect certain subtleties, but general flavor profiles are recognizable by almost anyone. I am positive that you, or anyone, can do this. The hardest thing for me was trying to put words to the flavors that I recognized and that just takes time.

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Some info on the vigneron. The normale bottling is a blend of gneiss and schist sites, IIRC. But it's a penetrating example of classic muscadet.

The grape is melon de bourgogne, which is vaguely in the pinot family and is related to gamay in particular.

If Pepiere is hard to find for you, look for muscadets from Luneau-Papin, Chasseloir (by the glass at the seafood stand at WF Fair Lakes), Bossard, Landron.

I am a bit of a muscadet nut, so I'll post later on about some adventures around muscadet, such as aging. Which might segue into a second unit on gruner veltliner. Or gamay.

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I don't think the issue is really that people cannot discern the nuances unless they ahve an insured nose etc. Its that they neither have the vocabulary or the practice in doing do. Join a wine tasting group (or form one yourself). Pick a theme and have every one bring a bottle on that theme. Taste, discuss, repeat. In short order, you will sound wine geeky as the best of them.

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RaisaB, I think mdt and Dean are right on the money.

Given your presence on this board, I'm pretty certain you can break down and analyze a dish to every nuance of flavor, texture, and aroma, and you can understand and vocalize why those elements work together (or don't work.)

It's really no different with wine. We tend to get intimidated because we are describing flavors that don't come directly from ingredients. If you smell garlic in a dish, you know it's in there.

With wine, it's just fermented grapes, and it can offer an endless variety of aromas and flavors. As said above, it just takes time and practice to recognize and name them. A wine class or wine tasting group can be a huge help, as you get to have a dialogue with other people to get your brain going.

It's also a lot more fun that way.

The vast majority of us are born with just about the same level of taste and smell sensitivity. If you're into food, you're already more attuned to those senses than most people (it's just about paying attention to what you're sensing, really.)

The only way, I'm afraid, is to keep drinking lots of wine. It's a hard life, I know, but rewarding.

This project sounds like a lot of fun, and could be very educational. Muscadet will be a great wine to start off with.

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Anywhere in Maryland? [fyi: it is that small state on the other side of the Potomac River.]

per their websites:

$10.99 at Corridor Wine in Laurel

$9.99 at Beltway Fine Wines in Potomac

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What the hell, I'm game for this. Hopefully the powers that be will keep the selections as reasonably priced as this one seems to be. I do like minerally dry whites and I don't think I've had a muscadet (veltliner and Alsatian whites, yes) before so this will be a good experience.

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per their websites:

$10.99 at Corridor Wine in Laurel

$9.99 at Beltway Fine Wines in Potomac

Corridor only has the 2004. Beltway's office is in Potomac, but their only retail store is in Towson. It has the 2005. They are both - as well as Total Wine in Virginia - the same company. (At least that's what they told me when I called.)

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That is a very good choice. Is it available in the tasting room at the FLWF?

I would be very careful with the wine that you sample from that room. I've had 15 or 20 now over a number of visits and there is a large variance in the particular wine and how long the bottle has been open. I realize they have some kind of vacuum system (or whatever) that allows them to pour for several weeks but I've found that wine that is more than a day old is wine that is more than a day old, regardless of the system that is used to try and preserve it. I really like the room and its concept but I believe you have to stick to the wines which are more popular since there is a much greater likelihood that they were just opened that day. An ounce of Sassacaia was awful; when I complained staff noted that it had been open for several weeks and had suffered from this. They will even admit that the room and system is a work in progress, a kind of ongoing trial if you will. A taste of the Dead Arm shiraz, on the other hand, was very good. I was told that this is a wine that "turns over" with the likelihood the bottle is recent.

The room is the closest, the only thing that Fairfax County has that is similar to a real European wine bar; for this I wish it luck and hope that more of them are opened. But you have to be careful what you drink there. I would also add that any wine will taste better when tasted from a proper glass not just the small tasting glasses they use.

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There's nothing quite like good Muscadet. I love the stuff.

A grower once told me that good Muscadet should be, "as flinty as a Presbyterian minister" :o

Cherreau-Carré (Château de Chasseloir) is one of the great growers. Their Cuvée Ceps Centenaires is a paradigm of what great Muscadet can be.

I'm also a fan of Domaine Guindon. Pierre Guindon owns a 28ha domaine composed of many different parcels located around 4 different villages : 13ha in Muscadet Coteaux de la Loire, 2ha in Gros Plant and 13ha in Coteaux d’Ancenis. The soil is primarily clay-granite-schist on hillsides. . All of the vines are harvested by hand, something of a rarity in Muscadet. In Muscadet Coteaux de la Loire, Pierre makes 3 and sometimes 4 different cuvées. The “Prestige” is consistently the most interesting of the group. The 2004 is particularly impressive. The nose is restrained but with pronounced notes of minerality. The mouth reveals the maturity of the grapes – gras with hints of gingember and white fruits all firmly underlined by an intense minerality.

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Corridor only has the 2004. Beltway's office is in Potomac, but their only retail store is in Towson. It has the 2005.
Ooh, ooh. Get both and try them side-by-side, if you can. Tip-top muscadet such as all of Pepiere's bottlings age nicely in the medium term (and some for decades!)

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A grower once told me that good Muscadet should be, "as flinty as a Presbyterian minister" :o
It Rocks.

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per their websites:

$10.99 at Corridor Wine in Laurel

$9.99 at Beltway Fine Wines in Potomac

The distributor for Pepiere in MD and DC is Wines Ltd (which may have just changed names). According to the importer, Wines Ltd has stock of the 2005 Pepiere Muscadet.

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I would be very careful with the wine that you sample from that room. I've had 15 or 20 now over a number of visits and there is a large variance in the particular wine and how long the bottle has been open. I realize they have some kind of vacuum system (or whatever) that allows them to pour for several weeks but I've found that wine that is more than a day old is wine that is more than a day old, regardless of the system that is used to try and preserve it. I really like the room and its concept but I believe you have to stick to the wines which are more popular since there is a much greater likelihood that they were just opened that day. An ounce of Sassacaia was awful; when I complained staff noted that it had been open for several weeks and had suffered from this. They will even admit that the room and system is a work in progress, a kind of ongoing trial if you will. A taste of the Dead Arm shiraz, on the other hand, was very good. I was told that this is a wine that "turns over" with the likelihood the bottle is recent.

The room is the closest, the only thing that Fairfax County has that is similar to a real European wine bar; for this I wish it luck and hope that more of them are opened. But you have to be careful what you drink there. I would also add that any wine will taste better when tasted from a proper glass not just the small tasting glasses they use.

I wont even comment on the Dead Arm as I don't want to sound like a broken record. I am not surprised that it is one of the most popular in the tasting room. That just gives more credence as to why the Aussies are producing barrels of that style.

Day old is not day old when stored under an inert gas system as they are here. Since they are pumping nitrogen, IIRC, there is not much chemistry that I can remember to support the oxidation process that makes day old wine taste day old. I am willing to be corrected though. I believe that the system is the same as is being used by Sonoma and it performs well. Sure some things may not be great and I don't think the system is designed to store wine for several weeks, but it should keep for an extended period of time. If they are responsive and switch the bottle for you then all is well.

The tasting glasses that they have there are standard tasting size and perform well. Sure proper glasses enhance certain wines, but it is a tasting room.

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I think you and I have different tastes in wine. I don't like tasting glasses-I never have and never will; when I can avoid them I will. For me all red wine simply tastes better in a particular glass (i.e. Riedel Bordeaux/Burgundy Sommelier, Schott Zweisel Diva Burgundy which is my everyday glass and can be washed in a dishwasher with a plastic frame. http://www.wineenthusiast.com/E/results.as...E9-DDB1A256AEE6 . Unfortunately a larger glass is not available in this room. For me a tasting glass does not "perform well." But that is me. I am also someone who brings my own glass when I visit one of several wineries. I also bring my own glass when I go to friends' houses in our neighborhood. Again, that is me.

As for the system they are using: old wine IS old wine. In this room I do not know if I am defining "old" as a day or a week but I've had at least five or six different wines out of the 15 to 20 that I've tasted that I felt were "tired"/old/not at their best (pick your adjective). Three of them I asked to have replaced; all three times they were extremely cooperative and did not hesitate to open a new bottle, if one was available. If one was not available (the Sassacaia) they replaced it with a wine of similar value. It's entirely possible that this system allows wine to have a longer "lifespan" but, for me @ $2 to $20+ an ounce, it still has to taste its best, especially if I am trying it to see if I like it. Otherwise there is no point in tasting a better wine.

Still, I really enjoy this room, especially the social aspect of it. I am just noting that one has to be careful in what you drink in it. Not all of the wines are at their best.

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There's nothing quite like good Muscadet. I love the stuff.

Cherreau-Carré (Château de Chasseloir) is one of the great growers. Their Cuvée Ceps Centenaires is a paradigm of what great Muscadet can be.

I went to the P Street WF today with my notes about what to buy. I couldn't find the "Domaine de la Pepiere" Muscadet anywhere. However, I did pick up a bottle of the 2005 Chateau de Chasseloir "Muscadet Sevre et Maine" Chereau Carre for not a lot of money. I plan to hit Bell Liquors on M Street to try and find the "Pepiere." But first, I have many roses to prune. If I am lucky enough to find this stuff, Dame Edna and I will do a "compare and contrast" tasting. Assuming we can stay sober enough to make notes we can actually READ in the light of day. I suspect, though, that neither of us has good enough taste buds or senses of smell to really discern the differences. This may be the actual problem.

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