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15 minutes ago, TedE said:

There are myriad undercounter units out there, but I found that something labeled as "built-in capable" does NOT imply it is a true built-in unit; have to look for the front venting. Expect to pay double or more than a comparable free-standing unit.  I just went through this process buying units for our soon-to-be-built wet bar.  Unless you are going high-end, name brand like Eurocave there are tons of options in the 50-60 bottle range around $1000, many with dual zones.  As with any appliance you can get the same internals as the very expensive models for a big discount, maybe with not as nice finishes.  Lots of brands use the exact same compressors which really is the only thing that matters, and many you'll see have what look like the exact same cabinets and doors with a different label slapped on it.  Stay away from the really low end (Avanti, Haier), research warranty and company reputation.

Great advice.  

What did you choose? I'm looking for $1k or less. 

 

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1 hour ago, reedm said:

Great advice.  

What did you choose? I'm looking for $1k or less. 

I had looked at several units here and here, as well as Vinotemps from Costco.  Again, it's likely that almost all of these have the same or very similar internals.  We were restricted somewhat in that we wanted a wine cooler/beverage fridge combo (French door unit with wine temps on one side for ~30 bottles and normal fridge temps for beer/water/juice boxes/etc. on the other).  I actually ended up finding exactly what we wanted as an open box item from Wayfair for (drum roll) .... $200.  At that price I was willing to take a flyer on a returned item!  I haven't even plugged it in to test yet.

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1 hour ago, TedE said:

I had looked at several units here and here, as well as Vinotemps from Costco.  Again, it's likely that almost all of these have the same or very similar internals.  We were restricted somewhat in that we wanted a wine cooler/beverage fridge combo (French door unit with wine temps on one side for ~30 bottles and normal fridge temps for beer/water/juice boxes/etc. on the other).  I actually ended up finding exactly what we wanted as an open box item from Wayfair for (drum roll) .... $200.  At that price I was willing to take a flyer on a returned item!  I haven't even plugged it in to test yet.

My goodness, I've never seen a product with prices so all-over-the-place. 

Companies have been *screwing* wine consumers with these for decades, overcharging out the wazoo; now, it's pretty much <<Cave>> Yacht Tempt Whore.

See what I did there?

Let us know how you like it - more importantly, let us know how you like it a few years - how many bottles? It has a condenser, right?

Also, if others could chime in with their experiences, it would be *very* helpful. I have absolutely no clue how to help you. :(

I'm going to ask people on my super-duper, double-secret wine mailing list for their opinions.

I notice a double-clustering: one in the $100-500 range, and another in the $700-1500 range. Of the 172 units for sale, 114 of them fall into these pricing categories.

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As an aside, I don't think I've ever met someone with my level of wine knowledge who is *worse* with a corkscrew than I am - that's why I lean so hard on my Durand (I haven't checked prices for this, so shop around if you're going to buy one - it's worth every penny, and you may well never lose another cork in your life - I got mine from Rare Wine Company, and gave them my blessings to use me as a reference (and I haven't seen a better price, either). If you're on the fence about this, turn off your mind and BUY ONE. Tell them Don Rockwell referred you (maybe if they get a few sales they'll throw in some free shipping for me - goodness knows, I've paid them a *lot* of money for shipping over the decades). Anyway, here's a portion of the letter I sent them:

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Just FYI, my Durand has saved two bottles since I bought it

2000 Dönnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshohle Auction Spätlese ($100)
2004 Jacques-Fréderic Mugnier Clos de la Maréchale ($75)
 
Just five minutes ago, I drove a cheap corkscrew through the Burgundy cork, and it came out, alone, with no cork. So there was now a tunnel in the cork.
 
I put the Durand in, and the cork came right out. Both times, I didn't think it would work, and it did. It is *awesome*.
 
Happy New Year,
Don Rockwell
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1 hour ago, DonRocks said:

My goodness, I've never seen a product with prices so all-over-the-place. 

Companies have been *screwing* wine consumers with these for decades, overcharging out the wazoo; now, it's pretty much <<Cave>> Yacht Tempt Whore.

See what I did there?

Let us know how you like it - more importantly, let us know how you like it a few years - how many bottles? It has a condenser, right?

Also, if others could chime in with their experiences, it would be *very* helpful. I have absolutely no clue how to help you. :(

I'm going to ask people on my super-duper, double-secret wine mailing list for their opinions.

I notice a double-clustering: one in the $100-500 range, and another in the $700-1500 range. Of the 172 units for sale, 114 of them fall into these pricing categories.

The price I got is way out of line with standard cost, it retails for around $1000 from what I've seen elsewhere.  But somebody is making a profit even at that price.  That should tell you what the mark up is on these things.  It holds 56 bottles on one side in two zones (based on experience with bottle sizing we'll probably be lucky to fit 40).  We previously had a cheap-o Haier from Costco.  It was in the unfinished basement and I never bothered to vacuum the coils, so I suppose I should be glad we got 12 years out of it!

That being said there probably is some actual differentiation at those price points.  At the low end they are literally dorm fridges with shelves and a glass front.  At the higher end they may include dehumidifiers, smarter thermostats, more reliable industrial compressors, better insulation, plus swanky touches that befit a product designed to store and show off luxury goods.   When you add those improvements I'd still bet the mark up scale is logarithmic, not linear.

A decade ago I thought that by this point thermoelectric coolers would have basically taken over the market.  These are what those tiny desktop coolers that hold 3 cans of soda are, or if you have a car that has a cooler in the armrest.  They are ubiquitous in the sub-10 bottle, countertop wine cooler range.  However, they don't scale as well, you can't build them in and are much more sensitive to ambient temps and slower to recover.  In every other way I would assume a sold state device is much more reliable than a compressor.  I'll give them another decade to improve :)

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On 4/14/2017 at 3:07 PM, TedE said:

The price I got is way out of line with standard cost, it retails for around $1000 from what I've seen elsewhere.  But somebody is making a profit even at that price.  That should tell you what the mark up is on these things.  It holds 56 bottles on one side in two zones (based on experience with bottle sizing we'll probably be lucky to fit 40).  We previously had a cheap-o Haier from Costco.  It was in the unfinished basement and I never bothered to vacuum the coils, so I suppose I should be glad we got 12 years out of it!

I used to have a very, very old unit (perhaps 10-20 years of use) that was given to me by a friend, and the condenser broke down. There aren't any "wine cooler repairmen," so I called a regular old air-conditioner repairman who said he could work with it. He took it home with him, charged me a few hundred dollars, and said, essentially, that this thing was a piece of junk, and if it sold for more than a few hundred dollars new (I happen to know it was over $1,000 new), someone got ripped off. This was probably over fifteen years ago, so just take it as an anecdote.

This is a similar reason that I recommend using a plain old carpenter to build your wine cellar, and calling me for specifics (I can tell people what they need to know in ten minutes, and I don't charge anything!) - people who "specialize" in wine-cellar construction *always* rip you off; I had an entire cellar built, with room for a cooling unit through the wall, for less than $1,000, and it was done in two days (the second day was for painting).

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We got our U-line undercounter wine cooler from Watershed Appliance.  They seem to specialize in floor models and refurbished units and offer a pretty hefty discount off new in box if you want to go that way.  Our unit has only been in place for a few weeks so can't comment on its longevity obviously, but we were happy with their customer service and shipping.

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