Gardening for Beginners

[DanCole42]

So if you ask me, the Gardening thread is a behemoth brimming with enough information to be worthy of being split into its own forum. I don't even get why it belongs in Shopping and Cooking; shouldn't it be part of the Farms forum?

But I digress. About the only thing I feel comfortable doing in my "garden" is mulching. This year, though, there are two large (?) planters in my yard that I would like to use to grow herbs (I'm sick of Wegman's always being out of what I happen to need that day).

Here's my problem, though. I've never seen a good step-by-step guide to gardening. Everything seems to be informative: "here's the difference between annuals and perennials," or "Tricyrtis also make great cut flowers." But I don't see those as being very helpful to the beginning gardener. It would be like learning to cook by reading McGee off the bat rather than a recipe book.

So that's what I want. Just a step-by-step "recipe" for growing herbs. "RECIPE FOR GROWING ROSEMARY: Okay, dummy. Go to the hardware store. Buy this soil. Do this do it. Put it in this part of your yard. Now do this with the seeds. Now add water. Now buy this particular fertilizer. To harvest, cut this, but don't cut that. OPTIONAL VARIATION: GROWING MULTIPLE HERBS IN ONE POT."

And help or recommendations?

[leleboo]

(FYI: There is one in the F&FM forum; I'm still trying to figure out how/if to combine them.)

[lperry]

The only thing you need to know about growing herbs in pots is which ones like lots of water, and which ones do better a little dry. That way, you can group them. So go to Costco and get the giant bag of Miracle-gro potting soil. It works great and has the fertilizer already in it. Fill your pots about 3/4 full. Now choose your plants, and I would suggest buying herb plants because it is a lot easier. For the drier pot. put in some rosemary, thyme, oregano, and sage. For the wetter pot put in mint, parsley and chives. Basil deserves its own pot because you will probably use a whole lot of it. Tarragon gets its own pot because it's a little fussy. you let it dry out all the way before watering, and don't overwater under any circumstance or you get mold and dead tarragon. Or just buy the tarragon until you feel pretty good about growing things. Now add soil to fill up the gaps between plants, water everything in very well, and make sure all the roots are covered.

Now you have two nice big pots of herbs and a pot of basil, and you put them in sunny areas of your yard. The "dry" pot and the basil can take full blazing sun, and the "wet" pot can take some shade if you don't have enough room in the sun. In the dead of summer, you may want to move the "wet" pot to a shadier area or you will have to water it all the time. You will know when you need to water because the plants will tell you by wilting a bit. When you cut them, cut parsley and chives at the base, and the other herbs wherever you want them to branch. For branching, cut back to a node where there is another set of leaves. The plant can resprout from there. Does this help?

Edited to add - I should have said when transplanting plants from little pots to the big pot, spread out the roots so they will grow better. It's OK if you break some of them when you pull them apart.

[DanCole42]

lperry, I love you

For parsley and chives, when you say "cut at the base," how much do I leave sticking up out of the soil? An inch? Nothing? How much can I cut before I kill the plant?

For the other herbs, how do I know where I want them to branch? How often/how much can I cut?

When should I plant? Now? Later? How long do things take to grow?

Where should I buy my seeds? The hardware store? Is there a special herb provider I should be using?

I'm extremely impatient. Is gardening for me?

[DanCole42]

Edited to add - I should have said when transplanting plants from little pots to the big pot, spread out the roots so they will grow better. It's OK if you break some of them when you pull them apart.

Transplanting? How do I do that? When? What happens if I just scatter a bunch of seeds here and there on the ground?

[leleboo]

I'm extremely impatient. Is gardening for me?

No. (I'm fairly convinced this is why everything I've ever tried to grow has died, but I guess YMMV.)

[lperry]

lperry, I love you

For parsley and chives, when you say "cut at the base," how much do I leave sticking up out of the soil? An inch? Nothing? How much can I cut before I kill the plant?

For the other herbs, how do I know where I want them to branch? How often/how much can I cut?

When should I plant? Now? Later? How long do things take to grow?

Where should I buy my seeds? The hardware store? Is there a special herb provider I should be using?

I'm extremely impatient. Is gardening for me?

OK, line by line. You can leave an inch or cut them to the soil. These plants won't resprout from the stems you cut, so its more a matter of aesthetics.

Knowing where you want them to branch is a combination of utility and aesthetics, because the plant will grow more quickly producing more herbs to use, and it will either look weird or nice. (I think that made sense). Basil is usually pinched back to a set of double leaves, rosemary close to the ground level of the stem, etc. You will see as they grow and decide what you like. A rule of thumb is never remove more than one-third of a plant at a time. Time between cuttings will depend on how much you use. If you raze your basil for pesto, it could be a couple of weeks before you can go back. If you just grab a few leaves off one stem, there are more the next day.

You can plant now inside only. Put things outside around Mother's day. Things grow much more quickly in warm weather than in cool.

If you want to go with seeds, you can buy them anywhere. I've had luck with cheap drugstore seeds and with expensive organic seeds from Whole Paycheck. Home Depot and Lowe's have seed displays up already. Keep in mind, if you grow from seeds, it will be a much longer time between planting and harvest. For herb plants, DeBaggio's is nice, but places like Trader Joe's and other grocery stores also have good plants.

If you are impatient, go with several plants of each type. When the summer is really scorching, I have to weed-whack the mint in my yard to keep it from devouring the house. Herbs are pretty weedy, so as gardening goes, they will test your patience less than other plants.

Transplanting? How do I do that? When? What happens if I just scatter a bunch of seeds here and there on the ground?

I meant transplanting the plants from the little pots you buy them in to the big pots where they will live in your yard - I added an edit. As for scattering seeds, you might get some herbs in a few months, or you might feed the squirrels. It's a bigger risk and will take a lot more time for production.

[DanCole42]

These plants won't resprout from the stems you cut, so its more a matter of aesthetics.

Once I've cut them, what do I do with the space? Replant more herbs there?

How much area do I need to plant in? If I plant one rosemary "stalk," will it grow into many rosemary plants and fill up the pot? Or if I wanted a full pot of rosemary, should I plant multiple rosemary plants? I.e. is what you plant what you get?

So I don't exhaust your keyboard, IS there a "recipe book for gardening" out there?

[KMango]

...So I don't exhaust your keyboard, IS there a "recipe book for gardening" out there?

The Moosewood Restaurant Kitchen Garden

I can give you my copy (not gardening this year) if you are interested. A super resource.

[lperry]

Once I've cut them, what do I do with the space? Replant more herbs there?

How much area do I need to plant in? If I plant one rosemary "stalk," will it grow into many rosemary plants and fill up the pot? Or if I wanted a full pot of rosemary, should I plant multiple rosemary plants? I.e. is what you plant what you get?

So I don't exhaust your keyboard, IS there a "recipe book for gardening" out there?

Do you mean once you've cut them completely and the plant is gone? If so, sure, dig out the roots and plant something else. If you mean just regular pruning of the plants for use, the plant will continue to grow from the center and will produce more parsley that will fill in the space. The plants will grow in size over the season and occupy more space, but how much they grow depends on the combination of how much water they get, how much space they have for roots, and how much you cut them.

What you plant is not what you get. Rosemary will grow into a multi-branched plant the first year, but if you keep it pruned, it won't get really big. It took a few years for me to grow the rosemary "shrub" I have now, and it will probably take it all this year to recover from the branches that broke off in the snow. You can buy a full pot to start if you really like a certain herb.

You may want to take up KMango on her offer of the Moosewood book. I'm not familiar with it, but I like other Moosewood publications. I don't have a book to recommend, because I had excellent gardening teachers from the time I could walk out into the fields. I'm lucky enough to be the daughter of a master gardener and the granddaughter of farmers. I think that the best advice I can give is, don't overthink this. (Advice from a takes-one-to-know-one overthinker.) Gardening is supposed to be fun and relaxing. See how your plants do, then go from there. Maybe you will want to plant more of something next season and less of something else. There's usually some trial and error, but the worst thing that can happen is you lose a plant, learn a lesson, and head to Super H for a bunch of basil.

[zoramargolis]

Dan--

getting a sense of where you are at this point vis a vis gardening knowledge, my rec would be this: don't bother with starting seeds. Most herb plants are not easy to grow from seed, even for an experienced gardener. Buy plants--and multiples of any you are planning to use regularly. It takes a while for them to get established and grow vigorously, and if you cut and pinch them too much too soon, they won't be able to survive and thrive. Plan on letting them grow in their planter pots for at least a couple of months before you use more than small bits--and don't expect to harvest big bunches like the kind you get at the market--those come from huge plantings--except late in the basil season when your plants have been encouraged to grow full and bushy by judicious pinching.

[Anna Blume]

It won't be long before flower and plant growers return to farmers markets with trays filled w fledging herb plants.

Some offer deals for buying in volume and have a variety of types of basil, mint and thyme (for example).

[legant]

A variation on the question: if you were to have one... and at most, two... indoor window sill herbs, what would you grow? I don't get that much sun or have that much space so I realize my options are quite limited. Suggestions? What are your "essentials"?

[lperry]

Low light will be a bigger obstacle than the space. Mint will do OK in less sun, and it is essential in mojitos... Chives or parsley might also work in low light. I don't think you would have good luck with something like basil, thyme, or rosemary unless you get four or more hours of sun on the plant. (Sorry. )

[sandynva]

Low light will be a bigger obstacle than the space. Mint will do OK in less sun, and it is essential in mojitos... Chives or parsley might also work in low light. I don't think you would have good luck with something like basil, thyme, or rosemary unless you get four or more hours of sun on the plant. (Sorry. )

sadly, i have to second this, i'm very interested in gardening, particularly edibles, but unfortunately have mostly shade. what you can grow will depend on exactly how much sun you do get. in the brightest moments on your windowsill, if you raise your hand above it, do you get a shadow? if so, that's good news and you can try more things. if you don't get a shadow, that's pretty low light for plants, and you might be stuck with the most shade-tolerant herbs, which are, in my experience, parsley and rosemary (which doesn't grow very fast in low light, but at least doesn't die). oddly, pepper plants also do ok--you don't get many peppers, but you do get some. if you get more light maybe try chives or mint? anothe shade-toleranbt thing to try might be scented geraniums, particularly the lemon or rose scented ones. these do tolerate some shade, and supposedly you can cook with them, mostly baking i think. however, i just love them for the smell of their leaves, it's an instant pick-me up!

[legant]

how much sun you do get. in the brightest moments on your windowsill, if you raise your hand above it, do you get a shadow? if so, that's good news and you can try more things.

Interesting point. For the better part of the day I do get a "shadow." However, there is about 60 minutes... in late afternoon... when the sun rises above the trees and comes through in such a blindingly fashion that I raise my hand to shield my eyes. Because of this I always thought I had "low" light. It's not enough light to keep orchids, but it may be just enough for some basil or thyme.

[Barbara]

Interesting point. For the better part of the day I do get a "shadow." However, there is about 60 minutes... in late afternoon... when the sun rises above the trees and comes through in such a blindingly fashion that I raise my hand to shield my eyes. Because of this I always thought I had "low" light. It's not enough light to keep orchids, but it may be just enough for some basil or thyme.

No, it isn't. Sorry.

[porcupine]

. Because of this I always thought I had "low" light. It's not enough light to keep orchids,

eh, not to go off on a tangent, but it might be fine for orchids. Most of the common houseplant orchids don't want too much light.

signed, a recovering orchid fanatic,

[Anna Phor]

I sprout(?) green onions in hanging baskets indoor. To do this, you buy something called onion "sets"--these are baby onion bulbs, usually available in the fall. I can get a pack of 100 from an organic wholesaler online for less than $10. Stick a few in dirt with the tops just poking out, and in about a week, you have a pot of green onions. Clip as needed; then replant with a new onion after you've exhausted one.

[DanCole42]

So my plan was to harvest all of my tomatoes and make a sauce for pizza. The only problem is, the tomatoes are ripening one... at... a... time...

What are my options?

[leleboo]

Give them more time; I bet you'll hit critical mass a little later in the season.

[monavano]

Finally, a soaking rain today! I'm keeping fingers crossed that I get useable tomatoes this year. Not once since we moved to our current house have I had a successful gardening season, especially tomatoes, which have always failed in one way or another. This after having an amazing 2-tiered garden in Richmond, when I had to give food away.

I'm hoping to just get enough tomatoes to keep my happy in salads.

Hope springs eternal.

[lperry]

So my plan was to harvest all of my tomatoes and make a sauce for pizza. The only problem is, the tomatoes are ripening one... at... a... time...

What are my options?

Option 1: Make a new plan. Option 2: See Option 1. Farmers' markets? Plant more plants next year so you have a few ripe at a time? Sneak into the neighbor's garden?

Finally, a soaking rain today!

Amen to that! I diverted the gutter drains into the garden area, so everything should be very happy now. The rain gauge has 1.25" in it, and there is more forecast for Wednesday. Fingers crossed...

[porcupine]

So my plan was to harvest all of my tomatoes and make a sauce for pizza. The only problem is, the tomatoes are ripening one... at... a... time...

What are my options?

Next year be sure to plant at least one determinate variety of tomato. Fortunately, the best tomatoes for sauce are determinates. Many of the heirloom varieties are indeterminates.

Determinates tend to stop growing early, then flower and set fruit in a short period of time, which will ripen all at the same time (or close to - like, within a two week period).

Indeterminate vines will keep growing, flower, set fruit, and ripen continually until killed by the cold. You'll get a tomato or three a day for many weeks.

What varieties did you plant?

[DanCole42]

What varieties did you plant?

I don't know. The sign at the farmer's market just said tomato.

[mdt]

I don't know. The sign at the farmer's market just said tomato.

Wouldn't that make them indeterminate?

[ktmoomau]

Between the heat, stupid morning doves building nests in my flower pots using my plants as building materials and a bug blite I am having, my flowers and veggies on my balcony are not doing well. I have tried to keep the bugs off the non-edibles with soap spray, but then it damages the plants still.... and with the heat they are getting really dry really fast, but I also have to be careful not to over water a lot of them. I think I will have 3 tomatoes this summer and that is it. Luckily my orchids are loving the humidity, and they can go a few days if I travel. Maybe I just need to acquire even more orchids... if only they tasted as good as tomatoes and peppers.

[lperry]

Next year be sure to plant at least one determinate variety of tomato. Fortunately, the best tomatoes for sauce are determinates. Many of the heirloom varieties are indeterminates.

Determinates tend to stop growing early, then flower and set fruit in a short period of time, which will ripen all at the same time (or close to - like, within a two week period).

Indeterminate vines will keep growing, flower, set fruit, and ripen continually until killed by the cold. You'll get a tomato or three a day for many weeks.

What varieties did you plant?

<Smacks forehead> Doh! Determinates! I never plant them, but I'm not sure why that is. I think my favorites just happen to be indeterminates. Porcupine is right - Roma paste tomatoes are determinate, and San Marzanos can be (order the "bush" instead of the "vine" type), and they have the added benefit of being shorter plants so they actually fit in those $1 cages you can get at a hardware store. They do great in pots.

[porcupine]

Wouldn't that make them indeterminate?

press the button.

[bettyjoan]

So...is this the topic in which to chat about beginner gardening?  We just had our first community garden meeting (our plot came with our house), and I am excited to learn but don't really know where to start.  We'll be having our community work day (to clean up from winter, weed, and put down wood chips) at the end of March.

[ktmoomau]

I really miss having a community garden plot.  I gave mine up when my best friend moved out of Arlington, we had a joint plot.  What types of vegetables are you looking to grow?  What does your plot look like- any shady spots?  Some gardeners will put in a spring garden, but I think the late bad weather probably thwarted that inclination for most people.  I think the best thing to do is to map out your plot and then figure out what you what to plant, what can be planted next to each other and etc to maximize space.  For instance we used to put hot peppers at the end of our rows and between plants to discourage animals from eating things.  

[porcupine]

So...is this the topic in which to chat about beginner gardening?  We just had our first community garden meeting (our plot came with our house), and I am excited to learn but don't really know where to start.  We'll be having our community work day (to clean up from winter, weed, and put down wood chips) at the end of March.

Ask me some specific questions and I'll be happy to answer what I can (I was a Master Gardener for 7 years).  Here are a few generalizations.

Beginning gardener mistake #1: jumping the season.  Don't let a warm spell fool you.  Don't plant things too early.  Check the recommended dates for the plant and double check with your cooperative extension service for recommendations specific to your area.

Beginning gardener mistake #2: not prepping the soil.  A house built without a foundation won't stand for long.  Soil is the foundation of your garden.  Assess it, determine what it needs for what you're growing, and amend.  You live in DC, right?  Depending on which part of DC, you have either Piedmont or Coastal Plain soils - very different from each other.  But if this is an established plot, it might have pretty good soil already.

Combination of #1 and #2: working your soil too early.  Wait until the soil is somewhat dry before tilling and amending.  If you do it now, while the soil is still sodden from winter, you risking destroying the tilth.

[Bart]

How big is your plot and what do you want to plant?

Put the tomatoes on the north side (or east) so they don't shade the rest of the plant. Tomatoes, basil and parsley will keep you very happy (if you like that sort of thing). There's nothing like a home grown muskmelon (cantaloupe) but they take up a lot of space.

What crops are you interested in?

Also you may want to consider planning between rows of black plastic (or under the rows - just cut hole where you want the plant to go). It's not the prettiest looking, but it eliminates weeds and conserves water and is a huge time saver in the long run.

[bettyjoan]

Awesome, thanks for all the info so far!  I'll definitely come back as I have questions.  I haven't gone out and measured the plot, but eyeballing it, it looks like about 6 feet by 3 feet?  We have a whole separate plot for the group to grow herbs, so I probably won't plant any in my individual plot.  But, tomatoes, zucchini, cucumbers, hot peppers, that all sounds great.  Someone also said that the previous owners grew strawberries very successfully.

[SilverBullitt]

I have found Maryland's Cooperative Extension website and publications to be excellent.  One of their publications, GE-001 , may provide the advice you're looking for.  In addition, publication HG-16 provides guidance on planting dates for various vegetables.  The planting dates are for Central Maryland so if you're in DC, you can plant earlier, subject to weather, of course.

Based on the size of your plot, I have the following suggestions:

1. Plant spring (and fall) vegetables to maximize your production- radishes, peas, and lettuce as well as other greens are all very easy to grow.  Swiss chard is particularly good because it can produce from May-December.  I've never had luck with carrots and limited success with beets. 
2. Incorporate as much Leafgro as you are willing to buy.  In subsequent years, you won't need to till the soil- just spread some more Leafgro on top.
3. Because your plot is small, I'd recommend against zucchini since a mature plant can be 3' in diameter.  I'm not a fan of growing cucumbers since they're cheap in the store and they've always been bitter when I've grown them. 

There's a lot of information out there and it's easy to get stressed about doing everything right.  Don't worry.  You'll learn what works for you and your plot.  I've found that if you provide good soil, consistent watering, and use recommended plant varieties, you'll have success.  Have fun!

[zoramargolis]

LPerry and porcupine are both expert gardeners, so seek them out to answer your questions, and you will get reliable advice.

[Bart]

I have to disagree about growing cukes. Do it! You can grow them up a trellis to save space (and keep them straight). Go for Persian varieties which are very thin skinned. "Diva" is a great one you can find in most seed catalogs (not sure about live plants though). "Damascus" is another great one that I've only found at John Scheepers Seeds. Avoid Biet Alpha as it was my "worst" tasting ( more like, least best tasting) of the three I grew last year.

One plant/hill of cuckes (maybe 3 vines coming from the same spot) will keep you very well supplied.

Agree with avoiding growing Zuch's. They're so cheap in summer and they don't taste any different. (Unless you're looking for a unique type).

Forget about melons or sweet potatoes with that size space.

[astrid]

Cukes are basically impossible in community gardens because of wilt virus infected cucumber beetles.  They may be possible in home gardens, properly crop rotated farms, under horticultural fabrics, or maybe in year 1 of a community garden, but impossible in community gardens in this area.  Many very skilled CC gardeners I know have tried and failed.  While I know a few naive home gardeners who produced magnificent crops.

Bitterness is a non-issue with newer hybrids or even good heirlooms such as Poona Kheera.  But wilt will get your cucumbers.

[astrid]

Don't grow strawberries if the previous gardener did, it probably has an accumulation of diseases and could use a break.  Plus strawberries take a year to really start producing, so it's wasted space in the meantime.

With that amount of space, focus on high value stuff - greens, tomatoes, and herbs.  You can sow greens now - spinach, lettuce, chard, leaf radish, mustard, kale.  Wait until after April 15 for tomatoes and herbs, and opt for small transplants (see if you can get them from a garden club sale or farmer's market - they'll do better than the bigbox stuff).

[astrid]

You should probably give at least 2'x2' space per indeterminant tomato plant.  Use bulky wooden or steel stakes, at least 5' long.  Don't bother with tomato cases because they're far too flimsy.  If you don't plan on visiting the garden everyday, don't bother with cherry tomatoes because they'll be a pain to pick and you'll end up with too many rotting on the ground.  I've had good success with Pruden's Purple, Eva's Purple Ball, Aunt Ruby's German Green, and Kellogg's Breakfast.

Don't plant Brandywine unless you're prepared to be disappointed.  If you must plant, see if you can get the OTV variant, which is supposed to be better.

Borrow Ira Wallace's book on vegetable gardening in the southeast and Ed Smith's Vegetable Gardener's Bible, from the Library.  Those are probably the best beginner vegetable gardener books - they're straightforward and easy to follow.  Southern Exposure Seed Exchange (which Ira Wallace is associated with) is probably generally a good place to read up on growing guides generally.  Johnny's might be more thorough, but also more biased to more northern and commercially oriented gardener.

[astrid]

Also want to put in a good word for flowering annuals, they have always been worry free for me. A few Benarys Mix zinnias and cutflower marigolds will keep you in bouquets from June to frost.

[bettyjoan]

Holy cow, that is a lot of info!  Thanks so much.  Can't wait to get started!  I've ordered a couple of books to read, so I'm sure I'll keep coming back here with questions as they occur.

[porcupine]

The reason heirloom varieties are heirloom is that breeders developed hybrids that are more disease resistant; these hybrids were wildly popular because they were reliable, and the old-fashioned varieties fell by the wayside until they became trendy again.  Heirlooms are worth exploring - the variety is outstanding - but they don't always taste better than the newer, disease resistant strains.  Astrid makes an excellent point about diseases/pests in a community garden.  Therefore, if you're new to tomato growing, I recommend planting at least one highly disease-resistant cultivar along with any heirlooms.  That way you'll likely get something tasty even if some of the plants fail.

I could write a book about tomatoes, but SilverBullitt is right - check the University of Maryland's Home and Garden Information Center.

A few tomato basics:

"Indeterminate" varieties tend to grow indefinitely, until killed by frost.  They will produce fruit over a long period of time, but only a few fruit at a time.  If you want a few tomatoes every few days, plant indeterminates.

"Determinate" varieties tend to set and ripen fruit within a relatively short period of time - say, 2-3 weeks - then peter out.  If you want a lot of tomatoes all at once, plant determinates.

Plum-type tomatoes - often but not always determinate - have very thick flesh and relatively low water content, making them ideal for sauce or canning.

Beefstake as well as spherical-fruited tomatoes - often but not always indeterminate - have much thinner flesh and high water content, making them a joy to eat fresh but kind of pointless to make sauce with.

The long strand of letters after a tomato's cultivar name shows what diseases that cultivar is resistant to.  They're usually listed in the same sequence.  A highly resistant variety might be labeled something like "Better Boy VFNAT".  It's not important to know what these stand for, but as a rule of thumb the more letters after the cultivar name, the more disease resistant it is.

Use these tidbits to decide which ones to plant.

[ktmoomau]

We had a surprising amount of success with long beans, they grew better in our garden (near Columbia Pike) than any other bean variety we ever planted.  And they are really tasty beans.  They need to be trellised, but we built some trellises out of bamboo from my friend's parents yard.  They were more than happy to let us cut down some of their bamboo.  And we pretty much made our husbands so sick of kale and hungarian peppers.  We had an organic garden, we found neem oil really helped if bugs started attaching a plant.  The weather has varied so much the other crops we have had success with really varied from year to year.  We didn't have success with our cucumber plants, ever.

My brother and I are trying to convince my Mother to put in a garden in her backyard, so we can grow things there, we both miss our gardens.

[sandynva]

other issues to consider with tomatoes--if you have persistent wild tomato-loving critters, and are too lazy/softhearted to do anything to screen them away from your plants, you might want to make sure you plant some cherry tomatoes. take it from me-there are few things more dissapointing than watching scrumptious large tomatoes grow and ripen slowly (they take weeks), waiting for them to get dead ripe, and then waking up to find some critter has taken a bunch of bites from it so you can't eat it. it's less painful when they eat the cherries, because there are so many more of them you're bound to get enough for you, and because they start fruiting (for me at least) 6 weeks earlier, so there's less anticipation.

[SilverBullitt]

Has anyone tried those waxed or cloth bags for protecting tomatoes?  Over the past two years, squirrels (I hope not rats) have done the "bite and move on to the next" thing to my tomatoes.  Last year, I used bird netting to fence my plants and it was effective, though a pain.  I've read the Japanese tie bags around fruit to protect them from bugs and birds.  I've thought about trying bags this year and was hoping one of you had experience with them.

I know it won't stop a determined rodent, I'm just looking for deterrence.  thanks