Pizza Terrorists (AKA The Chicago Fan Club)

[ktmoomau]

I just want to know where to find a mechanic at $40/hour.

The same place you will find an attorney for $150/hour.

[pizza man]

Hopefully you can find both at Pizzeria Orso, eating over priced pizze.

[Miami Danny]

Just this morning I read pretty harsh and personal complaints on the internet about the local bike shop, and a veterinarian I know. Both had been responded to by their respective targets, and, just like here, there was plenty of give and take. I have a friend in the hotel business (not a restaurant) who was (unfairly) excoriated on Trip Advisor and almost got fired. Even my dentist has comments all over the place. I don't think that chefs and restaurants are called out more than any other professionals, or businesses (other than the obvious fact that there are more restaurants than vets or bike shops). And often, you can't make a comment without someone 'from the business' telling you how wrong you are, or supporting (some might even say shilling for) their compatriots. Pros get on the internet all the time to promote their businesses. And consumers have the same right to make their comments. I think it is important to have a sense of humor about it, like Pizza Man seems to have. I already have several great pizza joints in my neighborhood, and I'm not renting a car to go to Falls Church to eat pizza; but if the business plan works, more power to PO.

[mame11]

Last week I had a pizza lunch at Mozza Pizzeria in L.A. I don't recall a pie on the menu being less than $15. I also don't recall any of the pies being simple in nature, not even a plain cheese pizza. I recall examining the menu thinking "really, I'm going to pay this much for pizza?" I sat at the pizza bar watching the 4 chefs do their thing from stretching the dough to applying a tiny amount of olive oil strategically to create the delectable char on the crust, then into the pizza oven and on to the precise cutting. I examined the menu and considered my options. I chose the mushroom pizza because it was a mid-day meal and thought a meat pizza would be too heavy. The pizza arrived covered in many kinds of mushrooms that I have no doubt cost a fair amount of money regardless of wholesale prices. I felt the pizza was worth the price.

Here, it seems the chatter and some of the posters on this board are highlighting that basic ingredients like flour, cheese and tomato sauce are not enough (no matter how good) to justify $15 pies in D.C. I haven't been to Orso but wonder if I would be willing to pay the same prices for pizza at Orso as I would at Mozza. I am not sure I would. Also, I am not convinced that the D.C. dining community is the same as the one in L.A. that can support a restaurant at those prices...

Remember that the $16 Hamburger is found on menus where it is a bargain or in line with other prices at expensive (relatively) restaurants. The $10 Ray's Hell meal is a value compared to even the bargains at Ray's the Steak.

Just my $.02

[DaveK]

Here's an idea: If the cost thing is bothering you, why not think about it as going out for a great meal, instead of going out for pizza? What difference does it really make as long as the food is excellent? If a meal is expertly prepared and made with fine ingredients it will be a pleasure to eat. What it actually consists of is almost secondary if it's terrific.

It's very hard for two people to have an outstanding dining experience anywhere in this area, regardless of cuisine, for less than $75. But this can be done easily at Orso. So just relax and enjoy your food.

[ema]

Restaurateurs absolutely have to consider the area they are in and the clientele they are catering to. This is why you rarely ever see authentic ethic food or restaurants charging $30 per entree in most small towns. I have been to Orso one time and the overall atmosphere didn't really scream to me that they are trying to cater to families with small kids type. I am one of those people who thought the price at Orso was quite steep, but this is their choice. Why not charge $15 or more for a pizza if they have no problem filling out the dining room? On the other hand, if business tappers off beyond the initial opening buzz, then they might want to consider making some changes. In the end, only time will tell whether the people of Falls Church are ready to invest in a $15 pizza.

Here's an idea: If the cost thing is bothering you, why not think about it as going out for a great meal, instead of going out for pizza? What difference does it really make as long as the food is excellent? If a meal is expertly prepared and made with fine ingredients it will be a pleasure to eat. What it actually consists of is almost secondary if it's terrific.

It's very hard for two people to have an outstanding dining experience anywhere in this area, regardless of cuisine, for less than $75. But this can be done easily at Orso. So just relax and enjoy your food.

I agree with the first point, but pizza is comfort food, and people still have problem paying extra for something they consider as easy to make (regardless the fact that it actually takes work to master something simple). Its kind of like me refuse to pay more than $10 for noodles and dumplings because in the back of my mind, this is cheap comfort food for me, something I ate for breakfast almost every day when I was a kid. The latter is somewhat true in DC, but not in Falls Church. Hong Kong Palace, Mui Kee, XO, Present, Rabeing, any number of places in Eden Center, and many I didn't mention where you can have an excellent meal for less than $75.

[xdcx]

I agree with the first point, but pizza is comfort food, and people still have problem paying extra for something they consider as easy to make (regardless the fact that it actually takes work to master something simple). Its kind of like me refuse to pay more than $10 for noodles and dumplings because in the back of my mind, this is cheap comfort food for me, something I ate for breakfast almost every day when I was a kid. The latter is somewhat true in DC, but not in Falls Church. Hong Kong Palace, Mui Kee, XO, Present, Rabeing, any number of places in Eden Center, and many I didn't mention where you can have an excellent meal for less than $75.

the problem here is painting all pizza with the same brush. The pizza I had at Orso wasn't comfort food at all. I wouldn't put it on the same level as take out pizza or even what someone could make at home. Why do people think that $15 for pizza is outrageous but $15 for a salad or a sandwich or xyz isn't? I just don't understand why because it's pizza there is somehow automatically an arbitrary value assigned to it.

[mdt]

the problem here is painting all pizza with the same brush. The pizza I had at Orso wasn't comfort food at all. I wouldn't put it on the same level as take out pizza or even what someone could make at home. Why do people think that $15 for pizza is outrageous but $15 for a salad or a sandwich or xyz isn't? I just don't understand why because it's pizza there is somehow automatically an arbitrary value assigned to it.

Not to mention that the cost of the ingredients are probably much more than the "comfort food" pizza places. The bottom line is that quality ingredients cost more and folks have to decide if they want quality or quantity. Why go to Palena and pay $15 for half a roasted chicken when I can go to El Pollo Rico and pay less than that for an entire chicken?

[Waitman]

the problem here is painting all pizza with the same brush. The pizza I had at Orso wasn't comfort food at all. I wouldn't put it on the same level as take out pizza or even what someone could make at home. Why do people think that $15 for pizza is outrageous but $15 for a salad or a sandwich or xyz isn't? I just don't understand why because it's pizza there is somehow automatically an arbitrary value assigned to it.

Really? You think people don't think a $15 sandwich or salad is outrageous (or that any pizza isn't comfort food?)?

On the arbitrary note, Pete's, something of a benchmark for "too expensive" pizza in the region, gets $23 for a pie with two toppings, but it's three times as big. I think that a $15 personal pizza deserves a little extra scrutiny for price and value.

Not to mention that the cost of the ingredients are probably much more than the "comfort food" pizza places. The bottom line is that quality ingredients cost more and folks have to decide if they want quality or quantity. Why go to Palena and pay $15 for half a roasted chicken when I can go to El Pollo Rico and pay less than that for an entire chicken?

So, what do we thing the marginal cost of two ounces of pepperoni and three ounces of cheese when you go upscale v. Cisco? And the food cost percentage for Orso versus Vace?

Hey, may well be worth every penny. But when pizza and a couple of beers for two start pushing past the $50 mark, there's a new paradigm in town and it's reasonable to question it it.

The whole "he's a genius and superior ingredients are expensive" meme doesn't always work out well for the dining public.

[DonRocks]

The whole "he's a genius and superior ingredients are expensive" meme doesn't always work out well for the dining public.

No, but I know plenty of people who'd love to have a Picasso doodle magneted to their refrigerator door instead of their kid's finger painting.

IRONY - 1) [adj] - of or pertaining to iron, often used to describe soils in the despicable world of "THOSE" people who post on "YOUR" website

2a) [n] - the fact that I'm going to pick up my order from Pupatella in about five minutes (and can't wait to try their weekly special white pizza) (*)

2b) [n] - the fact that I'm enjoying a 2005 Horton Norton that I bought today at Harris-Teeter for $12.49

---

(*) Some rat bastard picked up my order!

Edited July 22, 2010 by DonRocks

[xdcx]

Really? You think people don't think a $15 sandwich or salad is outrageous (or that any pizza isn't comfort food?)?

On the arbitrary note, Pete's, something of a benchmark for "too expensive" pizza in the region, gets $23 for a pie with two toppings, but it's three times as big. I think that a $15 personal pizza deserves a little extra scrutiny for price and value.

So, what do we thing the marginal cost of two ounces of pepperoni and three ounces of cheese when you go upscale v. Cisco? And the food cost percentage for Orso versus Vace?

Hey, may well be worth every penny. But when pizza and a couple of beers for two start pushing past the $50 mark, there's a new paradigm in town and it's reasonable to question it it.

The whole "he's a genius and superior ingredients are expensive" meme doesn't always work out well for the dining public.

I haven't seen anyone on this site talk about the prices of salads at rustico, any of NRG for that matter or GAR. In fact I can't think of any places in that general price range with entree salads under $14-15. I don't see people complaining about the prices of the sandwiches at central. So what makes pizza so different? How do you determine the value of a meal? What makes that pizza not worth $15?

[Waitman]

I haven't seen anyone on this site talk about the prices of salads at rustico, any of NRG for that matter or GAR. In fact I can't think of any places in that general price range with entree salads under $14-15. I don't see people complaining about the prices of the sandwiches at central. So what makes pizza so different? How do you determine the value of a meal? What makes that pizza not worth $15?

What are you a shareholder? $15 is a lot of money for a snack-size pie, unless its served by topless virgin classics majors who did their junior year abroad in Naples and dusted with strategic metals from Uzbekistan. Is $15 too much? I can't say. I do hit Comet every now and again, but its expense keeps it from being a go-to place. I can say that knee-jerk rejection of price concerns by (people who may not be but who are acting like) affluent jerks is counterproductive.

I'm pleased that price means nothing to you. It's a great country.

I'm heartened by your faith that restaurant owners are merely concerned with serving their customers the best possible ingredients and not with maximizing profit. There's too much cynicism these days.

And I'm impressed by your knowledge of local restaurant chain menus. You must live a gastronomic life.

But I continue to be mystified by the vilification of some poor schmuck who just wants to take his best girl out for a bit off pizza on a Tuesday night without jeapardizing his ability to pay the electric bill. For most of us, cost is always a concern.

[DonRocks]

I can say that knee-jerk rejection of price concerns by (people who may not be but are acting like) affluent jerks is counterproductive.

[xdcx's post was thoughtful and not at all deserving of this comment.]

[xdcx]

What are you a shareholder? $15 is a lot of money for a snack-size pie, unless its served by topless virgin classics majors who did their year abroad and dusted with strategic metals from Uzbekistan. Is $15 too much? I can't say. I can say that knee-jerk rejection of price concerns by (people who may not be but are acting like) affluent jerks is counterproductive.

I'm pleased that price means nothing to you. It's a great country.

I'm heartened by your faith that restaurant owners are merely concerned with serving their customers the best possible ingredients and not with maximizing profit. There's too much cynicism these days.

And I'm impressed by your knowledge of local restaurant chain menus. You must live a gastronomic life.

But I continue to be mystified by the vilification of some poor schmuck who just wants to take his best girl out for a bit off pizza on a Tuesday night without jeapardizing his ability to pay the electric bill. For most of us, cost is always a concern.

you completely missed the point and rather than addressing my question you go off on an unrelated tangent. Now if you want to talk about perceived value and cost, we certainly can, but that'd kind of mean you'd have to cause you to get off your high horse and actually talk about it rather than just spit out snarky bullshit. I'd just really like to know why a $15 pizza is so over priced and why you think it is? From where I sit, $15 for an entree in this area isn't that much and don't really understand why just because we're talking about pizza it's something that only the richest amongst us can afford.

[Waitman]

[xdcx's post was thoughtful and not at all deserving of this comment.]

Anything that starts with "I haven't seen anyone on this site talking about...." is the opposite of thoughtful. It's avoiding actually having to think.

I realize that I'm in one of those death spirals that comes when your life is unfulfilled and small online comments loom large. And that the ex-poor student/veteran leftist in me is whispering my ears.

But this whole thing began with a relatively modest point -- that you should be allowed to comment on a restaurants price point without being dismissed as whiny, under-earning, unappreciative prole who wouldn't recognize the value in a $15 pizza if it was served to them free by Signoro Orso himself.

And I stand by that.

You want to say that the damn pizza is worth a hundred bucks and is a bargain at $15, fine. You want to make arrogant, irrelevant and obvious points -- well, I'm in a mood.

[Pat]

$15 is a lot of money for a snack-size pie,

Some of it depends on who the consumer is, but the $12 pizza I got at Orso was the size of the dinner plate it was served on, and I could only eat half of it. I wouldn't call that a snack, but perhaps someone with a hearty appetite would.

[DonRocks]

Anything that starts with "I haven't seen anyone on this site talking about...." is the opposite of thoughtful. It's avoiding actually having to think.

[xdcx said: "I haven't seen anyone on this site talk about the prices of salads at rustico, any of NRG for that matter or GAR."

And ... that's pretty much correct (GAR rants by Kibbee notwithstanding). I'm not taking sides in this argument; only pointing out that your attack (which crosses the line into being personal (and will probably be deleted)) on this selectively quoted sentence is misguided. Also, please note that xdcx has been a member here for over five years.]