Fabio Trabocchi in New York City The star chef parts with The Four Seasons, destination unknown
#51
Posted 24 October 2007 - 06:46 AM
#52
Posted 25 October 2007 - 08:11 AM
I appreciate the point of view, unclouded by any sense of sacred cow. He's also a good friend whose palate I really trust, he understands getting bang for your buck.
Brian: Stewie, if you don't like it, go on the internet and complain about it.
http://synaesthesia.wordpress.com
DCist Food and Drink
#53
Posted 25 October 2007 - 09:01 AM
And how could anyone predict complete satisfaction when trying a restaurant for the first time? I often feel I didn't get my moneys worth trying new restaurants. Disappointed at times sure. But without trying something new, true jewels like Komi and others would have passed me bye.
I'm hoping to get to Fiamma in the next month or so. Will report back.
#54
Posted 30 October 2007 - 08:36 AM
http://www.nydailyne...w_chef_fab.html
#55
Posted 30 October 2007 - 08:44 AM
Quote
They might not want to frame that one.
I'm drinking heartbreak motor oil and Bombay gin
straight from the bottle, twisted again
#56
Posted 31 October 2007 - 06:32 AM
#57
Posted 03 November 2007 - 09:06 AM
Even on a "shoestring" you can have Chanterelle mushrooms! Go Fabio!
#58
Posted 27 November 2007 - 09:23 PM
Four you cannot have.
Two would be an injustice.
Three it will be.
Stars are for fools.
#59
Posted 27 November 2007 - 09:57 PM
#60
Posted 27 November 2007 - 10:09 PM
robert40, on Nov 27 2007, 09:57 PM, said:
http://events.nytime...ews/28rest.html
F yeah.
Inox Restaurant
Tyson's Corner, VA
#61
Posted 28 November 2007 - 01:12 AM
Johnny Rooks, on Nov 27 2007, 10:09 PM, said:
"Since Mr. Trabocchi took over the kitchen at Fiamma in September, much of the response to his cooking has been perplexed, centering on questions of nomenclature and ethnic fidelity.
Can a lasagna with as little sunshine and as much stormy intensity as Mr. Trabocchi’s justly call itself lasagna? And can a restaurant with food as ornate, saucy and creamy as Fiamma’s rightly call itself Italian?"
Fabio needs to leave New Yawk where every review wants to discuss whether or not his cuisine is Italian. It should not be a question-it is truly irrelevant. But even Bruni and Alan Richman succomb and waste precious words on this. It is absurd that this is even a consideration. Just absurd.
Just as absurd is three stars on a four star scale.
Come home, Fabio. Perhaps a red sauce Eyetalian will open in the "Osteria" you are wasting your time in.
#62
Posted 28 November 2007 - 05:31 AM
Joe H, on Nov 28 2007, 01:12 AM, said:
Can a lasagna with as little sunshine and as much stormy intensity as Mr. Trabocchi’s justly call itself lasagna? And can a restaurant with food as ornate, saucy and creamy as Fiamma’s rightly call itself Italian?"
Fabio needs to leave New Yawk where every review wants to discuss whether or not his cuisine is Italian. It should not be a question-it is truly irrelevant. But even Bruni and Alan Richman succomb and waste precious words on this. It is absurd that this is even a consideration. Just absurd.
Joe, you're quoting selectively. Sounds to me like Bruni addressed the discussion and dismissed it as irrelevant:
Quote
It owes its accessories — the olive oil, the balsamic vinegar, many of the cheeses (fontina, burrata, ricotta salata) — to Italy. It owes its classically indulgent soul to France.
It owes apologies and explanations to no one. When a restaurant turns out this many dishes that make you stop mid-chew, nudge a companion and nod your head vigorously — because you’re excited; because you need to start working off the calories any way you can — it needn’t worry about fitting into a tidy box.
And I'd like to hear why discussing whether the food of an Italian chef in an ostensibly Italian restaurant is Italian is "absurd." Why is it "absurd" to talk about whether the food hews to tradition, or strikes out in a new direction, or what the chef's influences might be?
I'm drinking heartbreak motor oil and Bombay gin
straight from the bottle, twisted again
#63
Posted 28 November 2007 - 08:26 AM
Joe H, on Nov 28 2007, 01:12 AM, said:
Can a lasagna with as little sunshine and as much stormy intensity as Mr. Trabocchi’s justly call itself lasagna? And can a restaurant with food as ornate, saucy and creamy as Fiamma’s rightly call itself Italian?"
Fabio needs to leave New Yawk where every review wants to discuss whether or not his cuisine is Italian. It should not be a question-it is truly irrelevant. But even Bruni and Alan Richman succomb and waste precious words on this. It is absurd that this is even a consideration. Just absurd.
Just as absurd is three stars on a four star scale.
Come home, Fabio. Perhaps a red sauce Eyetalian will open in the "Osteria" you are wasting your time in.
#64
Posted 28 November 2007 - 09:30 AM
For a great report and photos see link below for a description of my online buddies recent meal.
http://forums.egulle...o...;p=1499727&
#65
Posted 28 November 2007 - 10:56 AM
Key graphs: "Would you find these entrees in Italy, even up north? Maybe, in a very fussy restaurant. In most others, no. And who cares? They're prepared with finesse, and they're the definition of luxury, no matter the geography, no matter the language."
And: "It owes apologies and explanations to no one. When a restaurant turns out this many dishes that make you stop mid-chew, nudge a companion and nod your head vigorously - because you're excited; because you need to start working off the calories any way you can - it needn't worry about fitting into a tidy box."
#66
Posted 28 November 2007 - 11:06 AM
How is that absurd? While I do think the review read like something closer to four than three, the NYT tends to be incredibly stingy with that fourth star. I'm pretty sure you can count on one hand the number of four-star restaurants in NYC right now, per the Times: Daniel, Le Bernardin, Jean Georges, Per Se and Masa.
They don't do half stars, so three is next best. And guess what? Your boy has good company in the three-star 'hood. L'Atelier de Joël Robuchon, Alain Ducasse, Aquavit, Bouley for instance.
#67
Posted 28 November 2007 - 11:17 AM
#68
Posted 28 November 2007 - 11:24 AM
Personally I have no complaints over the review. I am sure the staff are very happy with it.
I just wish the question would not be centered around is it Italian or not. Which has been the topic in the last three reviews by well known critic's
#69
Posted 28 November 2007 - 11:36 AM
robert40, on Nov 28 2007, 11:24 AM, said:
#70
Posted 28 November 2007 - 11:57 AM
Has anyone here actually eaten there? Or will I have to settle for the prose and photos (and confirmation of 3-star accuracy, but suggesting a 4th) of that notorious peasant-palate Don Sconzo?
#71
Posted 28 November 2007 - 12:13 PM
#72
Posted 28 November 2007 - 12:21 PM
Waitman, on Nov 28 2007, 11:57 AM, said:
Has anyone here actually eaten there? Or will I have to settle for the prose and photos (and confirmation of 3-star accuracy, but suggesting a 4th) of that notorious peasant-palate Don Sconzo?
I seem to remember that an outspoken New York City food blogger once decreed that Italian cuisine could never get 4 stars because it is peasant food.
Wine Director, MLRG Inc. aka Ray's the Steaks
Available for private consulting and retail wine sales.
RaysRetailWine@verizon.net
#73
Posted 28 November 2007 - 12:46 PM
Waitman, on Nov 28 2007, 11:57 AM, said:
Has anyone here actually eaten there? Or will I have to settle for the prose and photos (and confirmation of 3-star accuracy, but suggesting a 4th) of that notorious peasant-palate Don Sconzo?
Peasant-palate because he enjoys food that evokes his Southern Italian roots?
Or because he has dined on guinea pigs?
* * *
How does discussing a discussion differ from writing about words? I suspect there are a lot of former English majors among us who parse language still.
I personally am quite amused that a chef native to Le Marche, a place "known" for its training of Italian chefs (
The dilemma of classification is but isn't just silly, and over at that other food site there have been some good points made among all the trivial, inane, prejudiced and redundant in numerous topics devoted to innovation in Italian cooking, its relevance, or complex relationship to French cuisine which, in terms of the latter, usually take the form of hierarchical assessments. Much has to do with history, not just 19th-century Paris, but the fact that since the collapse of the Western Empire, Rome has never been to Italy what Paris became to France back in the 13th and 14th centuries. We still tend to think of Italian food as home cooking that is best when it's faithful to regional traditions. Simplicity, fidelity to excellent ingredients blah blah blah. As someone who has spent more money on groceries than on restaurants in Italy or at home, I'm not the best judge. However, it is my impression that Trabocchi enjoys greater freedom to experiment here in the U.S. than most of his peers back home. There are exceptions, of course, including non-Mama Mia types like the guy with the hair at Gambero Rosso.
#74
Posted 28 November 2007 - 01:22 PM
Anna Blume, on Nov 28 2007, 12:46 PM, said:
Or because he has dined on guinea pigs?
* * *
How does discussing a discussion differ from writing about words? I suspect there are a lot of former English majors among us who parse language still.
I personally am quite amused that a chef native to Le Marche, a place "known" for its training of Italian chefs (
The dilemma of classification is but isn't just silly, and over at that other food site there have been some good points made among all the trivial, inane, prejudiced and redundant in numerous topics devoted to innovation in Italian cooking, its relevance, or complex relationship to French cuisine which, in terms of the latter, usually take the form of hierarchical assessments. Much has to do with history, not just 19th-century Paris, but the fact that since the collapse of the Western Empire, Rome has never been to Italy what Paris became to France back in the 13th and 14th centuries. We still tend to think of Italian food as home cooking that is best when it's faithful to regional traditions. Simplicity, fidelity to excellent ingredients blah blah blah. As someone who has spent more money on groceries than on restaurants in Italy or at home, I'm not the best judge. However, it is my impression that Trabocchi enjoys greater freedom to experiment here in the U.S. than most of his peers back home. There are exceptions, of course, including non-Mama Mia types like the guy with the hair at Gambero Rosso.
When one writes on Shakespeare, one is -- one hopes -- directly illuminating some text or theme in a way which will allow for greater understand and enjoyment of the "words." When one writes about the taxonomy of Fabio Trabocchi's cooking -- as opposed to the cooking itself -- one is shedding at best an indirect light on the food which -- like Shakespeare's words -- is the point. When one writes about that writing, one has turned the light altogether away.
You're just irked because they call him "French". If they said he was Spanish, you wouldn't care one whit.
#75
Posted 28 November 2007 - 01:32 PM
#76
Posted 28 November 2007 - 01:34 PM
Waitman, on Nov 28 2007, 01:22 PM, said:
On Fiamma...it was mentioned on another website that perhaps Bruni wanted to de-emphasize the Italian aspects of Fabio's cooking because he has a well-known bias toward Italian cuisine.
I'm drinking heartbreak motor oil and Bombay gin
straight from the bottle, twisted again
#77
Posted 28 November 2007 - 01:43 PM
Heather, on Nov 28 2007, 01:34 PM, said:
What is this website all about, if not discussing discussions about food?
We're not discussing food. At this point we're discussing whether we should be discussing a discussion about the classification of food. Or, as they say in England, wanking.
So I, for my part, shall cease, what with already needing glasses and all.
#78
Posted 28 November 2007 - 01:46 PM
#79
Posted 28 November 2007 - 02:01 PM
ETA:
I'm drinking heartbreak motor oil and Bombay gin
straight from the bottle, twisted again
#80
Posted 28 November 2007 - 03:34 PM
Keithstg, on Nov 28 2007, 08:26 AM, said:
Has nothing to do with that. It's the distraction of even having a discussion of whether it's "Italian" or not. In the eGullet thread that Robert linked both Le Calandre and La Pergola are mentioned. I've eaten at both, with three dinners at Calandre. They are similar to Fabio in that they are not traditional but rather interpretative Italian. Yet, they both have three Michelin stars and are both considered to be among the three best restaurants in Italy along with the far more traditional (if you will) Dal Pescatore which I have also been to. Fabio is Fabio. Whether he's Italian, interpretative Italian or whatever his cuisine is-it's his cuisine. And, for me, it is the equal of any in both America and Italy right now. I had an 18 course dinner just before he left Maestro that ranks with any dinner I've ever had. For me three stars was an injustice on a four star scale.
As for New Yorkers? I have never seen so much space (Bruni, Alan Richman and Gael Greene) all wasting paragraphs in their reviews discussing whether or not what he serves is Italian. That IS a waste of space-what DOES IT MATTER? Is Robuchon French? Ducasse? Interpretative French? "Modern French?" What does it matter?
It doesn't, it shouldn't and it is a distraction to the man's cuisine that it is even mentioned. And it has been prominently mentioned/discussed by the three most prominent New York critics.
It is a real question, though: can a New York reviewer give a chef such as Fabio four stars? They seem to be predisposed not to. I am strongly suggesting, perhaps insisting, that if Fabio was in Rubano instead of Massimiliano Le Calandre would STILL have three stars. Their respective styles, their cutting edge creativity, there are many parallels in their cuisine.
I can't imagine sitting at a table and discussing whether or not his lobster ravioli is an Italian dish. Regardless of whatever classification one insists on branding it with it is still the best lobster ravioli of any kind that I have ever had.
And, speaking of French chefs, is Michel Richard a French chef? A non-traditional French chef? An interpretative French chef? Revisionist? Creative, intensely personal French chef?
It doesn't matter. He's a great chef, just as Robuchon, just as Ducasse, just as Keller, just as Adria, just as Santimaria, just as...Fabio.
#81
Posted 28 November 2007 - 03:57 PM
Joe H, on Nov 28 2007, 03:34 PM, said:
As for New Yorkers? I have never seen so much space (Bruni, Alan Richman and Gael Greene) all wasting paragraphs in their reviews discussing whether or not what he serves is Italian. That IS a waste of space-what DOES IT MATTER? Is Robuchon French? Ducasse? Interpretative French? "Modern French?" What does it matter?
It doesn't, it shouldn't and it is a distraction to the man's cuisine that it is even mentioned. And it has been prominently mentioned/discussed by the three most prominent New York critics.
It is a real question, though: can a New York reviewer give a chef such as Fabio four stars? They seem to be predisposed not to. I am strongly suggesting, perhaps insisting, that if Fabio was in Rubano instead of Massimiliano Le Calandre would STILL have three stars. Their respective styles, their cutting edge creativity, there are many parallels in their cuisine.
I can't imagine sitting at a table and discussing whether or not his lobster ravioli is an Italian dish. Regardless of whatever classification one insists on branding it with it is still the best lobster ravioli of any kind that I have ever had.
And, speaking of French chefs, is Michel Richard a French chef? A non-traditional French chef? An interpretative French chef? Revisionist? Creative, intensely personal French chef?
It doesn't matter. He's a great chef, just as Robuchon, just as Ducasse, just as Keller, just as Adria, just as Santimaria, just as...Fabio.
Hmmm, could he possibly have wasted the space to educate potential diners as to what to expect? Maybe it was to help accentuate how different and interesting the food is as to what folks might assume that he is preparing.
Why on earth would a New York reviewer have a bias toward Fabio? Because he came to them via DC? Because it is not French food? Because he is an Italian not providing red sauced dishes? I just don't get your gripe, not to mention that I don't see where it says that he is not a great chef.
#82
Posted 28 November 2007 - 05:21 PM
(Please show all work; partial credit will be given.)
#83
Posted 28 November 2007 - 05:25 PM
How many restaurants opened up with 4 NYT ****? I can think of only Per Se. Great review. I am sure they are ecstatic.
Suburbian Idiot
#84
Posted 28 November 2007 - 05:30 PM
mdt, on Nov 28 2007, 03:57 PM, said:
Why on earth would a New York reviewer have a bias toward Fabio? Because he came to them via DC? Because it is not French food? Because he is an Italian not providing red sauced dishes? I just don't get your gripe, not to mention that I don't see where it says that he is not a great chef.
Before Fabio ever landed in New York there were threads on eG and CH as well as mentions in articles that a creative, interpretive chef SUCH as him may have to overcome the apparent preconceived notions of many New York critics of what Italian "should" be. There seems to be room on their part for one to be creative and Spanish (how many of them have flown to Roses?), creative and French (Gagnaire among others), creative and American (WD-50). But creative and Italian seems to inspire resistence-for whatever reason-on their part.
And, D. C.? I don't remember ever reading any consideration about that here. New York is the first time.
He is worth four stars.
#85
Posted 28 November 2007 - 05:40 PM
#86
Posted 28 November 2007 - 08:10 PM
mtpleasanteater, on Nov 28 2007, 05:40 PM, said:
Exactly. I could not agree more. You would not think so but the resistance to creative food is alive and well in NY. And with out falling into a argumentative discussion that is the basic point. The review was fine as was previous reviews but I just wish the focus would remain on was the food delicious or not. I am not that naive to think that the 'Is this Italian or not' subject would not come up. But I was hoping it would not be the primary focus.
#87
Posted 28 November 2007 - 10:20 PM
Joe H, on Nov 28 2007, 05:30 PM, said:
And, D. C.? I don't remember ever reading any consideration about that here. New York is the first time.
He is worth four stars.
(My bold above) Well the way I read it, Bruni did a damn good job of telling everyone to forget what they think Italian "should" be as he is doing some wonderful work in the kitchen.
#88
Posted 29 November 2007 - 08:26 AM
mdt, on Nov 28 2007, 10:20 PM, said:
#90
Posted 15 January 2008 - 01:42 AM
ol_ironstomach, on Jan 14 2008, 10:38 PM, said:
<Shrug>. The tables are full. Isn't that what counts too?
Wine Director, MLRG Inc. aka Ray's the Steaks
Available for private consulting and retail wine sales.
RaysRetailWine@verizon.net
#91
#92
Posted 15 January 2008 - 12:00 PM
#93
Posted 15 January 2008 - 12:24 PM
nenadv, on Jan 15 2008, 12:00 PM, said:
I would have perhaps compared it to The Olive Garden first... or maybe Hooters.
Brian: Stewie, if you don't like it, go on the internet and complain about it.
http://synaesthesia.wordpress.com
DCist Food and Drink
#94
Posted 15 January 2008 - 01:45 PM
#95
Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:09 PM
nenadv, on Jan 15 2008, 01:45 PM, said:
Keep an ear out for the old Mongolian nose flute, and of course the statutory three gyrating eejits.
#96
#97
Posted 15 January 2008 - 04:48 PM
(edited to add: I meant Fabio was charming, not Martha.)
Metrocurean
#98
Posted 15 January 2008 - 05:13 PM
mdt, on Jan 15 2008, 02:37 PM, said:
Yup. The last time I ate at The Olive Garden was five years ago. Although my last Hooters visit was much more recent for research purposes. heh heh.
Ok back to being the caper-ed crusader - defender of maligned fancy-pants chefs everywhere and egger of chain restaurants!
Brian: Stewie, if you don't like it, go on the internet and complain about it.
http://synaesthesia.wordpress.com
DCist Food and Drink
#99
Posted 30 January 2008 - 06:42 PM
#100
Posted 06 February 2008 - 03:24 PM


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