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legant
Due to poor planning and downright laziness I found myself, late Thursday morning, trying to throw together something to take to a potluck Thanksgiving dinner. I absolutely refused to go to the store on Thanksgiving so I was forced to use what was in the house. I scoured the Internet and decided on spinach ravioli lasagna. After reviewing several recipes – taking a bit from this recipe, a tad from that recipe – I had the ingredients to pull this off. Well, almost all of the ingredients.

All the recipes I found that used ricotta also called for an egg. The only thing I was missing was the egg. I presumed it was used as a binder for the ricotta and spinach filling.

Another search of the Internet for substitutions was futile. Substitute 2 egg whites for 1 whole egg. Well, if I had two egg whites I wouldn’t need to substitute it for the damned egg. mad.gif

(It seemed that there were quite a few others with cooking emergencies; a lot of the cooking sites crashed on me or had a slow response time.)

In a last ditch effort, I searched the board. When I couldn’t find anything in the archives I looked to see who was online. It seems that most of you kitchenistas were lovingly basting your turkeys or artistically plating your holiday dinners. I did get one suggestion: EVOO as a binder.

After more Internet searching (a.k.a., procrastination) I came across a site that suggested using flour or cornstarch as a binder. 2 TBS cornstarch/flour = 1 egg. I’ve not cooked lasagna since I was in Girl Scouts, but I thought this came out pretty well.

Are you in the middle of cooking a dish and realize you don’t have XX? What are your suggestions for last minute ingredient substitutions? (Herbs don’t count.) What type of dish? Did you compensate for the missing ingredient in any other way (such as adding extra vanilla)?

Most cooking is improvisation; new ideas are always welcome.
mktye
QUOTE (legant @ Nov 25 2006, 11:36 AM) *
Are you in the middle of cooking a dish and realize you don’t have XX? What are your suggestions for last minute ingredient substitutions? (Herbs don’t count.) What type of dish? Did you compensate for the missing ingredient in any other way (such as adding extra vanilla)?

Most cooking is improvisation; new ideas are always welcome.
One resource for ideas for substitutions is The Cook's Thesaurus.

I went to make the rolls this year for Thanksgiving dinner and realized I was completely out of unbleached, all-purpose flour which was called for in the recipe. So I subbed 2/3 bread flour and 1/3 bleached flour. And (coincidentally?) the rolls came out especially well. biggrin.gif
mktye
Just wanted to bump this up to the top in case anyone has any cooking emergencies tomorrow. A number of DR.com members who are experienced cooks have subscribed to this topic, so even if they are not checking the board itself, they'll still get an email notification if anyone posts a question in this thread. smile.gif
Al Dente
QUOTE (mktye @ Nov 21 2007, 11:15 AM) *
Just wanted to bump this up to the top in case anyone has any cooking emergencies tomorrow. A number of DR.com members who are experienced cooks have subscribed to this topic, so even if they are not checking the board itself, they'll still get an email notification if anyone posts a question in this thread. smile.gif

I want to do a popcorn stuffing this year. Do I stuff the cavity full of popped or un-popped corn? I'm thinking of going with un-popped.
zoramargolis
QUOTE (Al Dente @ Nov 21 2007, 02:00 PM) *
I want to do a popcorn stuffing this year. Do I stuff the cavity full of popped or un-popped corn? I'm thinking of going with un-popped.

I hope your dentist has office hours on Friday.
Anna Blume
Also, I'd like to mention that Lynn Rossetto Kasper will be on air for consultation tomorrow from 11 am to 1 pm:


Spendid Table
Anna Blume
QUOTE (Al Dente @ Nov 21 2007, 02:00 PM) *
I want to do a popcorn stuffing this year. Do I stuff the cavity full of popped or un-popped corn? I'm thinking of going with un-popped.
Just in case you heed Zora's warning, here's an alternative to pumpkin pie that someone in Virginia swears she's making at her children's request: Snooty French milkshake w caramelized popcorn

If you do go w the stuffing, note that leftovers can be strung w any remains of cranberry sauce.
babka
I've got the day's first 911!!

I have two 10 pound heritage birds sitting in the fridge. I dry-brined them Tuesday evening with salt, pepper, and sage--basically following what I do with Zuni chicken--and they've been air-drying since last night.

At 6 this morning, I woke up to the realization that I'd forgotten about cooking the damn things.

I have one oven. I don't need to cook anything else in the oven. I think my options are:

a) side by side in one roasting pan (they fit, though there isn't much space between them), or

b) butterflied and roasted on two shelves.

Side by side is the easier option, because I've got 26 people coming to dinner at 7:30 tonight, but would that work? I think I'd bring them up to room temperature with an icepack on the breasts, then plop them into a heated cast iron, one by one, for 5-8 minutes, to give the bottoms a head start, and then put them in the heated roasting pan (or use the flat roasting rack?) and roast at some oven temperature that I haven't figured out, rotating them a couple of times to even out exposure.

Butterflying the birds would allow more air circulation, but I have unpleasant memories of cutting through a turkey's backbone from an unfortunate deboning experience last year...should I suck it up, gulp the wine, and go for that instead?

(happy thanksgiving madness everyone!)
jparrott
We'll give you a pass on the unfortunate "dry-brine" usage (though, as a lady of letters, you should know better smile.gif ).

Go for option "A."
mktye
My vote is also for option A. And if it looks like they are not cooking evenly, you can spin each bird 180 degrees around in the pan about midway through roasting.

Happy Thanksgiving!
babka
thanks! if I go with option (a), any guesses on how much extra cooking time I should build in?
Al Dente
QUOTE (mktye @ Nov 22 2007, 08:30 AM) *
My vote is also for option A. And if it looks like they are not cooking evenly, you can spin each bird 180 degrees around in the pan about midway through roasting.

Happy Thanksgiving!

That's something one should do even if you're cooking only one bird. So with 2, I'd not only give 'em a spin, I'd switch sides as well.
mktye
QUOTE (babka @ Nov 22 2007, 08:33 AM) *
if I go with option (a), any guesses on how much extra cooking time I should build in?
My gut feeling is that won't take much additional time, if any. (And my in-house mechanical engineer concurs.) However, I have no real-world experience with this particular situation, so you'll probably want to take my opinion with a grain of leftover-from-brining salt.

Hopefully another DR.com member will have a more definitive answer for you. smile.gif

Time to make the apple pie!
babka
Thanks everyone!! At the last minute, a neighbor offered me her oven, so I wound up cooking the birds separately. The overcooked bird went into the trash; the perfectly-cooked bird was carved into tiny bits and tasted fantastic, like a free-range chicken only with more flavor, oddly enough.
Hope everyone had a good thanksgiving, and that everyone is fully recovered.
legant
Different sort of question...

I need to make a vegetarian alternative of a breakfast dish: herbed crepes w/ smoked salmon, chives, cream cheese and radishes. I'm looking for something simple, something else that I can substitute for the smoked salmon to the existing ingredients to make the crepes veggie friendly.

I thought about: tart apples, cukes, strawberry preserves. Or, would simply a cream cheese and radish crepe satisfy the veg?

Any other suggestions?
Pat
QUOTE (legant @ Dec 1 2007, 02:55 PM) *
Different sort of question...

I need to make a vegetarian alternative of a breakfast dish: herbed crepes w/ smoked salmon, chives, cream cheese and radishes. I'm looking for something simple, something else that I can substitute for the smoked salmon to the existing ingredients to make the crepes veggie friendly.

I thought about: tart apples, cukes, strawberry preserves. Or, would simply a cream cheese and radish crepe satisfy the veg?

Any other suggestions?
I would think the cucumbers would be good. Would some form of tofu be workable to compensate for the texture and flavor? I'm thinking of the fried tofu that gets wrapped around/stuffed with rice. Is that called inari? Somehow that seems like it would fit flavorwise, but I'm not sure if that's just something that appeals to me or if it is a totally bad idea dry.gif.

ETA: It occurs to me that finding the inari might be a problem, especially if you're asking this here because you need to know soon. What about avocado?
zoramargolis
QUOTE (legant @ Dec 1 2007, 02:55 PM) *
Different sort of question...

I need to make a vegetarian alternative of a breakfast dish: herbed crepes w/ smoked salmon, chives, cream cheese and radishes. I'm looking for something simple, something else that I can substitute for the smoked salmon to the existing ingredients to make the crepes veggie friendly.

I thought about: tart apples, cukes, strawberry preserves. Or, would simply a cream cheese and radish crepe satisfy the veg?

Any other suggestions?

Thinking about the characteristics that smoked salmon contributes to the dish, other than fish--salty, oily, chewy, smoky--I'm thinking that substituting sliced tomato, chopped kalamata olives and capers gets you everything except the smoky taste. I have some smoked salt, and I have seen Maldon smoked salt at the Tenley Whole Foods--don't know if you can get your hands on any, or maybe you have some Liquid Smoke. A drop or two. Maybe ricotta could substitute for cream cheese in a more substantial way. Don't forget the chives or some chopped shallot. Could be very good.
qwertyy
QUOTE (legant @ Dec 1 2007, 03:55 PM) *
Different sort of question...

I need to make a vegetarian alternative of a breakfast dish: herbed crepes w/ smoked salmon, chives, cream cheese and radishes. I'm looking for something simple, something else that I can substitute for the smoked salmon to the existing ingredients to make the crepes veggie friendly.

I thought about: tart apples, cukes, strawberry preserves. Or, would simply a cream cheese and radish crepe satisfy the veg?

Any other suggestions?

Maybe a sautee of wild mushrooms? Some porcinis cooked with black pepper and some wine? And goat's cheese?
Anna Blume
QUOTE (legant @ Dec 1 2007, 02:55 PM) *
Different sort of question...

I need to make a vegetarian alternative of a breakfast dish: herbed crepes w/ smoked salmon, chives, cream cheese and radishes. I'm looking for something simple, something else that I can substitute for the smoked salmon to the existing ingredients to make the crepes veggie friendly.

Cream cheese alone wouldn't do it for me were I the vegetarian. However, if there are mushrooms in the house, sauté sliced mushrooms in butter--or a little fussier, heat up some olive oil, throw in minced parsley & garlic and when you smell that and oil's sizzling, throw in your mushrooms. Stir over high heat and toss on a little salt. After they throw off liquid, stir until that liquid's evaporated. Turn off heat. Salt and pepper. A squirt of lemon if you've got it. I'd skip the radish unless it's just garnish, but otherwise this goes w the cream cheese and chives. If you have time to shop, shitake will give you some of the texture you get w the salmon. I managed to find decent chanterelles in today's mix at Whole Foods (be picky, but you only need a few and they'll cost you $2-3 vs. $16 for the very cool salt that lots like hardened pellets of potting soil). The tart apple would be very good were you to sauté it in butter.
porcupine
Questions for Anna Blume and any other Italophiles out there:

First, what simple meat dish would you serve as a second course after a ricotta-pesto lasagna? This lasagna isn't baked, but simply boiled fresh pasta sheets layered with a pesto made with a bit of ricotta.

Second, what simple pasta dish would you serve as a first course if the second course was pork sausages cooked in red cabbage?

Grazie.
Pat
QUOTE (porcupine @ Dec 28 2007, 03:52 PM) *
Questions for Anna Blume and any other Italophiles out there:

First, what simple meat dish would you serve as a second course after a ricotta-pesto lasagna? This lasagna isn't baked, but simply boiled fresh pasta sheets layered with a pesto made with a bit of ricotta.

Second, what simple pasta dish would you serve as a first course if the second course was pork sausages cooked in red cabbage?

Grazie.
I love Italian food but don't have the knowledge you're probably seeking. I loved the recipe in The Silver Spoon for meatballs with anchovies. I would do that for your first scenario. (It's recommended that they be served with buttered spinach, which sounds nice with your first course.)

For your second scenario, I'm thinking about gnocchi with sage brown butter. I have no idea if that has any authenticity at all.
bioesq
QUOTE (porcupine @ Dec 28 2007, 03:52 PM) *
Questions for Anna Blume and any other Italophiles out there:

First, what simple meat dish would you serve as a second course after a ricotta-pesto lasagna? This lasagna isn't baked, but simply boiled fresh pasta sheets layered with a pesto made with a bit of ricotta.

Second, what simple pasta dish would you serve as a first course if the second course was pork sausages cooked in red cabbage?

Grazie.
With the lasagna, I'd suggest a veal piccata or scallopine with Marsala and mushrooms. To make it lighter, substitute chicken. For the pasta course with the pork, perhaps a fettuccine with arugula, garlic and Oyster mushrooms.
Anna Blume
QUOTE (porcupine @ Dec 28 2007, 03:52 PM) *
First, what simple meat dish would you serve as a second course after a ricotta-pesto lasagna? This lasagna isn't baked, but simply boiled fresh pasta sheets layered with a pesto made with a bit of ricotta.

Second, what simple pasta dish would you serve as a first course if the second course was pork sausages cooked in red cabbage?

Grazie.
Prego.

To be very frank, I wouldn't serve pesto at this time of year. I'd do winter squash and sage, instead, similar prep, followed by grilled or roasted lamb or pork--perhaps a cut you can roll out and stuff. Lamb shoulder chops marinated first w lots of crushed juniper and grilled over rosemary branches if guests don't mind gnawing gristle and bones. Even spinach and ricotto instead of pesto.

If you're really into the pesto idea, a (2-lemon) roasted chicken as recommended, or if you need it to be fancy, quail, capon, rabbit, duck... Molto Mario has a recipe for stuffed turkey breast--but I don't recall what was in it beside prosciutto. Anna Del Conte has a recipe for uccelli scappati, pork scallops that are rolled around slices of pancetta, rosemary and sage, sautéed and served on a bed of caramelized onion [onion may be too much after pesto]--light pan juices of butter and dry white wine. More elaborite: poached capon filled w walnuts, ricotta and Parmesan if you're into ingredient-themed dinners.

For some reason, a wintery braise just strikes me as too soupy after what you describe whereas a roasted or grilled dish with an appropriate contorno seems good. BTW, I referred to Marcella Hazan's carrots with Parmesan earlier elsewhere. 1/3-inch thick disks of carrot you throw into a heavy casserole with lots of butter. Add 2-3 T water in risotto fashion, stir till gone, a little more water, etc. for supposedly an hour and a half. I was happy w what I got after 20-30 minutes when they start to shrivel and darken around the edges. Dutch oven is swimming with golden butter. Toss them out and coat them w Parmesan. Might be good w second course. That or a wild mushroom stew (funghi in umido or u di f) I also describe in dinner thread somewhere.

As for the sausages, I might start w a soup as long as the ordeal of the cappelletini hasn't worn you out. Maybe something puréed instead of brothy, even, if you could do a chestnut that isn't too rich, or something with sunchokes--maybe w frozen artichoke hearts or a cool garnish in the center. Or this Yellow bell pepper soup (Cibero, Florence). Another way to go is a farro and chickpea soup with porcini as long as you restrict the second course to the sausage and cabbage. (I'd suggest ribollita, except it's redundant w the cabbage.) Or some sort of crostini w chicken liver spread or finely chopped, long sautéed spinach or mushrooms, preferably w bread grilled over the fire.

The dish just sounds more suitable to Tuscan or Umbrian cooking, if kind of French or German so nothing with pasta or rice seems right although (regular or sweet potato; squash) gnocchi w butter and sage might be just the thing as a kind of translation of French and German side dishes. I just associate Italian sausages with things like lentils. You might check one Hazan recipe for a chicken fricassee w red cabbage (her sub for Tuscan kale which wasn't available in US back in the 70s-80s) and see what she suggests for a first course since she's great at menus.

To go with the sausages, it isn't kosher, but I've cooked polenta in the oven (there are online recipes) and it wasn't half bad. If steaming pool of polento with the sausages seems like too much, you could always do polenta as a first (e.g. combo buckwheat & cornmeal--just a little of former, or regular polenta w the mushroom stew) or make the polenta the day before, let a lump of it cool and broil wedges topped w butter and Parm as a side. Since I like sage and sausages, I'll mention again, that battered and fried sage leaves are a perfect appetizer or garnish at this time of year.
legant
Wines...

The chicken ragu calls for a dry, white wine. Huh?

Before I make a grocery run: What type of whites should I look for? Could I use a dry champagne? Or, can I substitute the pinot noir (that I had planned to serve with the meal)?

Cooking with wine usually means a glass in/at hand.
monavano
QUOTE (legant @ Dec 30 2007, 12:44 PM) *
Wines...

The chicken ragu calls for a dry, white wine. Huh?

Before I make a grocery run: What type of whites should I look for? Could I use a dry champagne? Or, can I substitute the pinot noir (that I had planned to serve with the meal)?

Cooking with wine usually means a glass in/at hand.

Dry white wine-sure! I usually use a Pinot Grigio for dry white wine in cooking.
Pat
QUOTE (monavano @ Dec 30 2007, 12:59 PM) *
Dry white wine-sure! I usually use a Pinot Grigio for dry white wine in cooking.
I often use a pinot grigio.
Anna Blume
^Other suggestions for cheap dry whites: Sauvignon Blanc or Chenin Blanc which you'll find in the $3 Charles Shaw label at Trader Joe's or all those potato-chip labels: Falling Leaf, Turning Leaf, Willow Creek, Glen Ellen...

* * *
MY SOS: Rodman's had some great, ripe persimmons on sale for $1.29 apiece last week. Puréed them w intention of trying to make a flan w pomegranate glaze that I made last year.

Thing is, persimmons apparently have the same enzyme you'll find in other tropical fruits such as pineapples which prevent you from putting the latter, raw, into Jell-O and expect it to set. Thus, the baking soda many recipes include which does something magical. Short story: a flan sets in two layers, not unpleasant at all, but.

David Lebovitz suggested cooking the purée first, then mixing it into the custard. So I did. However, when stirred stovetop, the purée transformed from a glossy, sweet, viscous liquid to a compact, opague, somewhat tannic mass with cellulite.

I tried smoothing it out w blender stick w little effect. I haven't tried pressing it through a fine-meshed sieve yet. If I can't achieve a decent texture, any suggestions for a good recipe that isn't the usual persimmon pudding? (For me, the addition of dried fruit, spices, nuts, etc. completely masks any persimmon flavor.) Thanks.
porcupine
Thanks for all the ideas! In the end, a serious misadventure with pastry had me starting the main course (cabbage and sausage) at about the time our guests were to arrive, so the plan of making fresh fettucine and saucing it with brown butter and sage (thanks, Pat!) was scrapped and I went with spaeztle as a side dish. (I can crank out large quantities of spaetzle fast without too much effort). For nibbles before dinner (ie, to keep guests out of the kitchen while I scrambled about cooking), I went with three different American blue cheeses paired with three different honeys, and spiced pecans. Despite the pastry issues it was a good dinner.

AB: in general I agree about seasonal foods, but I have twelve jars of homemade pesto from homegrown Genoa basil in the freezer to use before next June. I love pulling that stuff out in mid-winter when everyone has palate fatigue from rich braised or roasted meats and starches. When I do make that lasagna I'll follow it with lemon-roasted chicken as you suggest.
monavano
QUOTE (porcupine @ Dec 30 2007, 06:09 PM) *
Thanks for all the ideas! In the end, a serious misadventure with pastry had me starting the main course (cabbage and sausage) at about the time our guests were to arrive, so the plan of making fresh fettucine and saucing it with brown butter and sage (thanks, Pat!) was scrapped and I went with spaeztle as a side dish. (I can crank out large quantities of spaetzle fast without too much effort). For nibbles before dinner (ie, to keep guests out of the kitchen while I scrambled about cooking), I went with three different American blue cheeses paired with three different honeys, and spiced pecans. Despite the pastry issues it was a good dinner.

AB: in general I agree about seasonal foods, but I have twelve jars of homemade pesto from homegrown Genoa basil in the freezer to use before next June. I love pulling that stuff out in mid-winter when everyone has palate fatigue from rich braised or roasted meats and starches. When I do make that lasagna I'll follow it with lemon-roasted chicken as you suggest.

I agree with you about palate fatigue. I have corn kernals, blueberries and sour cherries from the summer markets, awaiting me in the freezer. Nothing beats tasting these things in February when I can't wait for the ramps of Spring smile.gif
porcupine
Oops. I just realized that cream puffs require poured fondant, and all I have is rolled (see Kitchen Disasters thread). Hmmm. Is there an acceptable substitute? Like even a confectioner's sugar glaze? Of course ganache would work, but I don't want all of them to be chocolate.
mktye
QUOTE (porcupine @ Dec 31 2007, 10:43 AM) *
Oops. I just realized that cream puffs require poured fondant, and all I have is rolled (see Kitchen Disasters thread). Hmmm. Is there an acceptable substitute? Like even a confectioner's sugar glaze? Of course ganache would work, but I don't want all of them to be chocolate.
What about just dusting them with confectioner's sugar?

(But wait until pretty close to serving unless you have special non-melting confectioner's sugar.)
legant
Not necessarily a call for help; just a rant:

As I'm discovering, one of the problems with the clean fridge/freezer project is that you're often left with odd bits of this and that. Right now, from 2 containers, I have barely a 1/2 of cream. Even if I halve the cream biscuits recipe, it's not enough. If I were to make a cream sauce there isn't enough. I could whip it with some sugar and serve it with... what? Perhaps a ganache, but that means I have to buy the ingredients for a cake... which means at least four unused eggs in the fridge... which defeats the whole clean fridge project.

ARGH!!!!

The expiry date is about 10 days away; I may just take the easy way out and toss the cream.
jparrott
Roast an apple and drizzle it over?
Pat
QUOTE (legant @ Jan 5 2008, 06:49 PM) *
Not necessarily a call for help; just a rant:

As I'm discovering, one of the problems with the clean fridge/freezer project is that you're often left with odd bits of this and that. Right now, from 2 containers, I have barely a 1/2 of cream.
Is it 1/2 cup? You could try whipping it, but that's a pretty small amount to start with. You could always mix it with milk or half and half to stretch it for cooking. You can use it in coffee. Put a couple of tablespoons into a soup. Do you have potatoes? It would be nice in mashed or twice baked potatoes or a gratin.
legant
QUOTE (Pat @ Jan 5 2008, 07:38 PM) *
Is it 1/2 cup? You could try whipping it, but that's a pretty small amount to start with. You could always mix it with milk or half and half to stretch it for cooking. You can use it in coffee. Put a couple of tablespoons into a soup. Do you have potatoes? It would be nice in mashed or twice baked potatoes or a gratin.

It's your *(&(*$! clean the fridge/freezer project, Pat! mad.gif

Don't drink coffee... may make a pea soup... have two apples (hmmm... apple crisp with whipped cream?)... potatoes call for a trip to the store... no milk -- can't stand the stuff... may have a (lot of) chai Sunday morning.

I'm almost there: I can see the back of the fridge! I do have a ton of carrots. Maybe cream of carrot soup... for one... tomorrow?
Pat
QUOTE (legant @ Jan 5 2008, 09:16 PM) *
It's your *(&(*$! clean the fridge/freezer project, Pat! mad.gif
unsure.gif laugh.gif You seem to be doing better at it than I do, if that's any consolation. Cream of carrot soup sounds good. Thyme would be good in that, if you have it. (That's something I always have dried because I buy it at Penzey's in big bags that last forever. Different project wink.gif).

I'm making a 4-onion soup tonight to use up garlic, shallots, and yellow onions (why do I buy them at Costco?) and a stray leek. If it's still grate-able, I'll be using the rock-hard gruyere in the cheese drawer, making this a French 4-way onion soup. I've got a baguette in the freezer I can pull out to use for the bread.
DPop
I don't know if this is the right place for it, as it is not an emergency, but I am looking for brining/marinating suggestions for a 3 lb bone-in rabbit loin that I got at the market. Having never cooked rabbit before, I am looking for some prep suggestions that some of you may have used that come out good.

Just as a note, I'm planning to cook it indirectly over medium heat unless someone has a better suggestion.

Thanks for the help!
legant
Can this meal be saved?

I recently attempted Cook’s Illustrated’s slow-roasted beef (September 1996) with semi-disastrous results. I used a chuck roast, ~ 1/2 of a 4lb roast - removed the strip of fat, tied, browned and seared, and dry roasted in a 250 oven ‘til internal temp reached 110. Then, I increased temp to 500. The recipe calls for a final internal temp of 130, supposedly obtained after an additional 15 minutes.

Several observations/questions:

It took more than 15 minutes for the oven to reach 500 (from 250) temp. I removed the roast when internal temp reached 130; oven temp had probably gotten up to 400. How do I quickly increase the oven temp?

After letting the roast rest for 20 minutes, I had a hard time slicing the meat. It seems that it was nothing but hard, non-chewable stuff. However, the next day, I sliced another piece. It was tender and favorable. I then realized that the tasty piece was smaller and came from the other side of the fat vein.

I’m guessing here: although the larger piece reached the 110/130 internal temp it hadn’t had enough time to allow the connective tissue to break down. (I should have guessed something was up when I had a tough time inserting the thermometer.) How do I correct this when I have (tied) two different sizes of meat?

Also, this was a dry roasting method. I have braised beef roasts before but this dry roasting method was new to me. In fact, I read the recipe several times, thinking I had missed something. I have another chuck roast in the freezer. Given that the smaller piece turned out quite well, I’m tempted to try this method again and dry roast the other chuck roast as well.

Finally, if I run into this problem – being fooled by the internal temp; connective tissue not having enough time to break down – again, is there anyway to correct this after the roast is removed from the oven? Could I have braised, after roasting, the tougher piece until tender? [The internal temp will be greater than 130.] Or: marinated it prior to roasting? Or: once it’s cooked, is it cooked?
zoramargolis
First of all--check the recipe to see if they are recommending this method with a chuck roast. Shoulders (called chuck when discussing beef) are generally cooked in liquid. For dry roasting, unless you are doing pricey cuts like rib, loin or sirloin, you want rump or round--either top or bottom, sirloin tip or tri-tip. Eye round looks pretty, but is an inferior cut both flavor and texture-wise. There is one muscle in the chuck or seven-bone roast that is tender enough to use as a steak--it is called the "chuck eye"--if you look at a chuck roast, you can often identify a distinct, round piece of the meat. This may be the one piece of your oven roast that was tender enough to chew. Merle Ellis, in *Cutting Up in the Kitchen* suggests that you separate out this piece and save it for the grill, and cut the rest up for stew.

As far as whether the meat can be re-cooked in liquid to make it more edible--you can certainly try. Just barely poach in flavorful liquid for a couple of hours. The other possibility is to grind the leftover meat in a Cuisinart or meat grinder and use for chili or bolognese sauce.
monavano
According to the CI website recipe, you were ok with your choice of cut and Zora's recommendations are spot on. CI also goes on to say that if you allow your roast to rest/age in the refrigerator for 4 days, on a wire rack over a plate with a paper towel, it will yield a more flavorful, tender roast. Cut off any dried out parts before proceeding with cooking so you don't get leathery meat. CI also says that this is fantastic for roast beef sandwiches.
silentbob
QUOTE (zoramargolis @ Mar 9 2008, 02:22 PM) *
First of all--check the recipe to see if they are recommending this method with a chuck roast. Shoulders (called chuck when discussing beef) are generally cooked in liquid. For dry roasting, unless you are doing pricey cuts like rib, loin or sirloin, you want rump or round--either top or bottom, sirloin tip or tri-tip. Eye round looks pretty, but is an inferior cut both flavor and texture-wise. There is one muscle in the chuck or seven-bone roast that is tender enough to use as a steak--it is called the "chuck eye"--if you look at a chuck roast, you can often identify a distinct, round piece of the meat. This may be the one piece of your oven roast that was tender enough to chew. Merle Ellis, in *Cutting Up in the Kitchen* suggests that you separate out this piece and save it for the grill, and cut the rest up for stew.

I have had success in using brines to give turkey and chicken better moisture and taste, but fail miserably when trying to give red meat added flavor. Are marinades a waste of time? A recent episode of America's Test Kitchen seemed to suggest as much.

In the past, I have used some combination of lemon juice, soy sauce, olive oil, etc. for chuck steak before grilling but it seems like no matter how long I keep the meat soaked (whether overnight or a couple of hours), the lack of flavor transfer remains the same.

What am I doing wrong?
plunk
Hmm. I have the opposite problem: I struggle getting my brines to add any flavor to poultry, but have had great success with marinades.

Could it be your choice of ingredients? I realize that soy sauce is pretty full-flavored, but lemon juice and olive oil might be a bit delicate for beef. I use soy quite a bit, but also use worcestershire, balsamic vinegar, sriracha, honey, smashed garlic, onions, etc. I use olive oil as well, but never just by itself.

Also, are you really submerging the meat in the marinade? Placing the beef in a marinade "puddle" probably won't work. I like to marinade in a ziploc bag.
zoramargolis
QUOTE (silentbob @ Apr 4 2008, 01:32 PM) *
In the past, I have used some combination of lemon juice, soy sauce, olive oil, etc. for chuck steak before grilling but it seems like no matter how long I keep the meat soaked (whether overnight or a couple of hours), the lack of flavor transfer remains the same.

I rarely use wet marinades for adding flavor to steak. I find a dry rub just prior to grilling adds more flavor. I make my own spice rub blend with smoked paprika, salt, black pepper, garlic powder, cumin, powdered oregano and ancho chile powder. Before grilling skirt steak for tacos, I'll smoosh garlic, scallions, lime juice with the steak in a zip-lock bag for an hour or so, and then salt the meat just before putting on the grill. Or lamb chops with garlic, rosemary or mint and olive oil. The best wet marinade for tenderizing and adding flavor is the Middle-Eastern method I use for lamb--this involves yogurt, aromatic vegetables and herbs and chunks of citrus with kebab cubes or butterflied leg in a zip lock bag for four or five days in the fridge--mooshing and turning the bag a couple of times each day. the lactic acid in the yogurt tenderizes the meat gently without making it mushy like a harsher acid like vinegar or wine would, and the long time allows the flavor of the onion and herbs to completely permeate the meat.
QUOTE (plunk @ Apr 4 2008, 03:45 PM) *
Hmm. I have the opposite problem: I struggle getting my brines to add any flavor to poultry, but have had great success with marinades.

Use a lot of aromatics and herbal elements. Heat the brine with shallot, parsley, celery leaves and lots of aromatic herbs (tarragon, rosemary, thyme and/or lavender) until the salt and sugar have melted, and simmer briefly, but don't boil hard. Then turn it off and let the herbs steep like you are making strong tea. You should be able to smell it throughout your living space. When the brine has cooled to room temperature, strain out the herbs and chill the brine. Then soak the poultry or pork in it for 24 hours. If your brine has the proper ratio of salt and sugar to water, and you've have flavored it strongly enough, you'll taste it all the way to the bone.
legant
Okay… this falls into the “how to make ice” category: At what temperature is food sufficiently reheated?

My mother – Yahweh bless the woman; she’s in her 80s and entertain once a month – has a habit of serving barely warm food. She cooks at least a week before, freezes the food, defrosts the day before, then “reheats” and serves. I had heard from my siblings… too many times… about family meals that were tepid at best. However, I only experienced this myself this past Mother’s Day.

When I talked to her the following week she was surprised, with 20 guests, there were leftovers. I mentioned… quite delicately I assure you… it was probably because the food wasn’t hot; the chill had barely been taken off. She was just as surprised to learn that the food wasn’t hot: the dishes had been in the oven, at 250, for over an hour.

I know where she got that idea; most recipes instruct to keep warm at 250… to hold… assuming the food had been hot to start with. But they don’t mention how to reheat food. I’m guessing here, but I think she believes if she puts cooked food – covered or not – in a hotter oven it will over-cook or dry out.

Myself? I put refrigerated food in a cold oven and allow the oven to “pre-heat” to 350 or 400 and add 10 minutes. This usually does the trick. If the food is still not warm enough, I’ll let whatever stay in the oven an additional 10 minutes or so.

The food thermometer goes in the mail next week. But that won’t necessarily solve the problem: obtaining the proper temperature for reheated foods. I know a lot depends on the item, but is there a magical formula, such as reheat for 20 minutes at 400? If she did use the thermometer, what would be an ideal, all-purpose... regardless of item... internal temp?

My siblings thank you.
Pat
Googling food danger zone reheating brings up results saying food should be reheated to approximately 165F (internal temperature).
Pat
I made this s'mores cheesecake for something later today. I have several gripes about the recipe, but it did appear that it would work out until I hit the last step. I went to run the marshmallow frosting under the broiler. It said to watch carefully so it didn't burn, about 2 minutes--and to put at least 4 inches from the heat source. I had it closer to 10-12 inches and didn't preheat the broiler fully. At just over 1 minute I smelled it burning sad.gif. I started working on this 24 hours ago and don't have time to make anything else.

There is a pretty swirled pattern on the top, that is supposed to be light shades of brown. Some of it is...and some of it is black. How do I rescue this? I thought about making another batch of frosting and scraping the old off, but it has to be thoroughly chilled before serving, and I'm barely going to make that requirement as it is. I'm also afraid if I scrape it off, I'm going to cause more damage than by leaving it alone.

The only thing that makes me think I can take this with burn marks on the top is that it's a s'mores cake, and the top looks in places like what happens when you get your marshmallow too close to the campfire tongue.gif. My inclination is to take with the burned top, get a funny story out of it, and scrape the most burned parts off when we go to eat it. Cutting into it will break up the area that is most burned.

Help?
porcupine
QUOTE (Pat @ Jun 17 2008, 12:51 PM) *
The only thing that makes me think I can take this with burn marks on the top is that it's a s'mores cake, and the top looks in places like what happens when you get your marshmallow too close to the campfire tongue.gif . My inclination is to take with the burned top, get a funny story out of it, and scrape the most burned parts off when we go to eat it. Cutting into it will break up the area that is most burned.

Help?

Carefully remove any black stuff that you can, then shower the whole thing in shaved chocolate. Or drizzle melted chocolate on top in an random way.
Pat
QUOTE (porcupine @ Jun 17 2008, 01:08 PM) *
Carefully remove any black stuff that you can, then shower the whole thing in shaved chocolate. Or drizzle melted chocolate on top in an random way.
Ah, thank you! Melted chocolate sounds like a good plan.

ETA: It worked out. I scraped off the most burned parts, leaving a white oval in the center of the cake. Since it was supposed to be served with raspberries and blueberries alongside, I scattered them on the cleared area, with a few out to the edges. Then I drizzled semisweet chocolate over the whole thing. It looked like it was supposed to be that way, and the berries were wonderful with chocolate on them smile.gif. Thanks again, Porcupine, for the chocolate idea. You gave me the courage to scrape the burned part off. I really was afraid I'd ruin it if I did that.
DanCole42
BEEF EMERGENCY!

Does anyone know that these little black specks are? They look and feel almost like leeches, and the meat around them is a little "off." Should I be worried??? Thanks.

goodeats
It sort of looks like clotted blood, but I can't get a good look from this picture. All the leeches I've seen are smaller and more slender. Go with your gut is what I'm feeling. Sorry can't help more!
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