Yelp.com (2004-) - A California-Based Review Website, Widely Accused of Extortion in Building Their Business

[leleboo]

Gawker has a (not-as-snarky-as-usual) snarky bit on Google's proposed buyout of Yelp (here via the NYT). It has a nice round-up of links to some of the other pieces noted above and/or others that deal with Yelp's business practices. I have to agree with the comment that "If it's going to seduce Yelp, Google should make sure its remaining friends know the company plans to reform its new toy rather than join its caddish pursuits."

(Now for the thread on whether Google is becoming its own Evil Empire...)

[DonRocks]

Gawker has a (not-as-snarky-as-usual) snarky bit on Google's proposed buyout of Yelp (here via the NYT).

And CBS bought CNET (which bought Chowhound).

God I love competition.

Sincerely,

A. Small Frye

[Kibbee Nayee]

How soon until MSNBC or Yahoo scoops up donrockwell.com....? I'm imagining a deal in the 9-digit range...

[Todd Wiss]

Yelp, like any publication, makes its money selling advertising - no mystery there. And like any publication, they are persistent and insistent and annoying. However, our experience with Yelp has shown them to be unethical and very, very shady - beyond normal publication standards. Having heard tales of Yelp "banishing" good reviews for restaurants refusing to advertise/do business with them, we have been avoiding their "representative" for months. We finally got a message that no further contact would be attempted on their part - hooray! Within that same week, we stopped receiving notification to our email account regarding new postings/reviews on our Yelp site. We also noticed, when trying to respond to a negative review, a "compliment" to the Yelpee who had posted the negative review. The message was from a Yelp representative (she identified herself as the DC Community Manager for Yelp) commending the reviewer on their negative review and, in essence, agreeing with their complaints on our dish. After contacting the ONLY person at Yelp who we could get on the phone - the sales rep we had been avoiding - we were met with complete indignation. He stated that the Yelp representative who responded was doing her job in promoting people to comment and review. He also refused to provide any phone numbers to customer service, the Yelp representative, her boss, or anyone else. We were only able to get a complaint email address to - you guessed it - complain about Yelp to Yelp. Here's the exact address to see her comment: http://www.yelp.com/user_details_thanx?userid=yg1MEPk0MNb_jCrrkfsexQ

On another interesting note - I have searched the website all OVER trying to find some way to contact them. No phone numbers. I google-searched customer service numbers for Yelp. Nada. However, in the "contact us" portion of the site, they have a topic listed "missing reviews." If you click on it, you get this startling bit of information: The review may have been suppressed by Yelp's automated software system. This system decides how established a particular reviewer is and whether a review will be shown based on the reviewer's involvement on Yelp. While this may seem unfair to you, this system is designed to protect both consumers and businesses alike from fake reviews (i.e., a malicious review from a competitor or a planted review from an employee). The process is entirely automated to avoid human bias, and it affects both positive and negative reviews. It's important to note that these reviews are not deleted (they are always shown on the reviewer's public profile) and may reappear on your business page in the future.

That's it, nothing more, no way to follow through with your complaint. They even indicate that if you DO complain about missing reviews, all they will do is send this information back to you.

They have us by the balls, and there isn't a damn thing you can do about their unethical behavior. When, oh when, will someone FINALLY expose them for what they are doing to the businesses they are supposed to be supporting?

[Andelman]

Yelp, like any publication, makes its money selling advertising - no mystery there. And like any publication, they are persistent and insistent and annoying. However, our experience with Yelp has shown them to be unethical and very, very shady - beyond normal publication standards. Having heard tales of Yelp "banishing" good reviews for restaurants refusing to advertise/do business with them, we have been avoiding their "representative" for months. We finally got a message that no further contact would be attempted on their part - hooray! Within that same week, we stopped receiving notification to our email account regarding new postings/reviews on our Yelp site. We also noticed, when trying to respond to a negative review, a "compliment" to the Yelpee who had posted the negative review. The message was from a Yelp representative (she identified herself as the DC Community Manager for Yelp) commending the reviewer on their negative review and, in essence, agreeing with their complaints on our dish. After contacting the ONLY person at Yelp who we could get on the phone - the sales rep we had been avoiding - we were met with complete indignation. He stated that the Yelp representative who responded was doing her job in promoting people to comment and review. He also refused to provide any phone numbers to customer service, the Yelp representative, her boss, or anyone else. We were only able to get a complaint email address to - you guessed it - complain about Yelp to Yelp. Here's the exact address to see her comment: http://www.yelp.com/user_details_thanx?userid=yg1MEPk0MNb_jCrrkfsexQ

On another interesting note - I have searched the website all OVER trying to find some way to contact them. No phone numbers. I google-searched customer service numbers for Yelp. Nada. However, in the "contact us" portion of the site, they have a topic listed "missing reviews." If you click on it, you get this startling bit of information: The review may have been suppressed by Yelp's automated software system. This system decides how established a particular reviewer is and whether a review will be shown based on the reviewer's involvement on Yelp. While this may seem unfair to you, this system is designed to protect both consumers and businesses alike from fake reviews (i.e., a malicious review from a competitor or a planted review from an employee). The process is entirely automated to avoid human bias, and it affects both positive and negative reviews. It's important to note that these reviews are not deleted (they are always shown on the reviewer's public profile) and may reappear on your business page in the future.

That's it, nothing more, no way to follow through with your complaint. They even indicate that if you DO complain about missing reviews, all they will do is send this information back to you.

They have us by the balls, and there isn't a damn thing you can do about their unethical behavior. When, oh when, will someone FINALLY expose them for what they are doing to the businesses they are supposed to be supporting?

Amen, brother! Same sh*t happened to me. We used to get notification when a new review was posted. Now, we do not.
I said it before, and I will say it again. Yelp can blow me.

PS: How's it going Chef Wiss? Long time, no see...

[Miami Danny]

Amen, brother! Same sh*t happened to me. We used to get notification when a new review was posted. Now, we do not.

I said it before, and I will say it again. Yelp can blow me.

PS: How's it going Chef Wiss? Long time, no see...

Go to your 'Business Owner Account' and make sure you have the correct notifications checked. 'Email me when my business is reviewed' may be unchecked. It's pretty simple.

[leleboo]

And CBS bought CNET (which bought Chowhound).

God I love competition.

Sincerely,

A. Small Frye

Seems they didn't take it. Half a bil sound good to you?

[Pat]

Another story on the subject

[Miami Danny]

Another story on the subject

This report references the report from February of last year. My feeling is that if there were really fire here, and not smoke, more businesses would be forthcoming and lawsuits would be launched. I find Yelp extremely helpful when navigating the DC food and drink scene.

Also keep in mind that NBC Bay Area is a competitor to Yelp.

[smokey]

Yelp can blow me.

Blow me and I'll Yelp?

[mame11]

All I can say is that I think (i.e. my opinion) that yelp is the least reliable online service for opinions. Seriously, every time I pick a service or restaurant based solely on Yelp reviews I have been disappointed. It's one of those slap your forehead things (i.e., why did I do that again).

Urbanspoon on the other hand is a great resource for restaurants. I haven't found a great resource for service providers (i.e. manicures etc) other than looking at "best of" compilations on websites for local magazines and newspapers (i.e. City Paper, Washingtonian)

[DonRocks]

Urbanspoon on the other hand is a great resource for restaurants. I haven't found a great resource for service providers (i.e. manicures etc) other than looking at "best of" compilations on websites for local magazines and newspapers (i.e. City Paper, Washingtonian)

[Funny you should mention that...]

[mame11]

[Funny you should mention that...]

Oh dear... DR, I don't need any other service in DC for restaurant information or advice. This forum is amazingly accurate and trustworthy. It is a great resource because the information provided is concrete and thorough. Plus, people post multiple times so if there is a flamer who has no track record their opinion is easy to ignore, and negative reviews are welcome but are expected to be thorough. That's what I like about UrbanSpoon when I travel.

[Michael Landrum]

I believe, NCPinDC, that Don was referring to his imminent takeover/purchase of UrbanSpoon--something long speculated upon but now, apparently, ready to be revealed to the public.

[RWBooneJr]

Urbanspoon on the other hand is a great resource for restaurants. I haven't found a great resource for service providers (i.e. manicures etc) other than looking at "best of" compilations on websites for local magazines and newspapers (i.e. City Paper, Washingtonian)

[Funny you should mention that...]

I believe, NCPinDC, that Don was referring to his imminent takeover/purchase of UrbanSpoon--something long speculated upon but now, apparently, ready to be revealed to the public.

Really? Because I was hoping this meant that Don was going to start reviewing manicurists. He seems like the type that would be particularly knowledgeable.

[DonRocks]

Really? Because I was hoping this meant that Don was going to start reviewing manicurists. He seems like the type that would be particularly knowledgeable.

I've nailed a couple in my day.

[bad pun. Delete.]

[DrXmus]

[snip]

The review may have been suppressed by Yelp's automated software system. This system decides how established a particular reviewer is and whether a review will be shown based on the reviewer's involvement on Yelp. While this may seem unfair to you, this system is designed to protect both consumers and businesses alike from fake reviews (i.e., a malicious review from a competitor or a planted review from an employee). The process is entirely automated to avoid human bias, and it affects both positive and negative reviews. It's important to note that these reviews are not deleted (they are always shown on the reviewer's public profile) and may reappear on your business page in the future.

[snip]

I tried a 3 month "sponsorship" with Yelp last year. For what we got, it wasn't worth it for our business (not a restaurant). While I'm not defending Yelp as a whole, I did learn that the reviews will disappear and reappear depending on the activity of the yelper. In our case, we had a horrible review that I think was fraudulent (I couldn't find any hint of a client that fit his story in our records). They wouldn't remove it when I asked because I couldn't prove that it was a lie. Thankfully, it disappeared after a few months. It reappeared for a short time then went away again. This person is a rare yelper so his reviews get pulled when he's inactive on the site. I wasn't harangued by the advertising rep, but I never did talk to the person in charge of my account once I signed up. I don't care because I didn't want to be bothered with her teaching me how to use Yelp, but still it was irksome. Our business has very few reviews so every one means a lot for my overall rating, but I can certainly see how a negative rating for a restaurant can scare some of your clientele away. Hopefully, as more people grow up with internet reviews, they'll learn that anyone's review is skewed by a single experience, their tastes and the reviewer's morals. Maybe each review will mean a little less.

Just my thoughts. Take them for what they're worth.

[TMFIII]

Looks like good ole Yelp needs to defend itself against extortion in a court of law!

[DonRocks]

Looks like good ole Yelp needs to defend itself against extortion in a court of law!

I believe that walking away from the $550 million Google buyout will be looked upon as one of the greatest blunders in internet history.

(But I also believe that this website is going to be around longer than Yelp, so what do I know (AHEM ... venture capitalists, are you out there? You know where to find me. ))

[LowellR]

Looks like good ole Yelp needs to defend itself against extortion in a court of law!

And more.

[mdt]

And more.

Makes you wonder if any business owner has a recording of a Yelp sales rep. stating what they claim. If Yelp itself records calls for QA I wonder of those tapes can be subpoenaed.

[jayandstacey]

Makes you wonder if any business owner has a recording of a Yelp sales rep. stating what they claim. If Yelp itself records calls for QA I wonder of those tapes can be subpoenaed.

I think at the root of the issue is if that's illegal at all. It is certainly unethical - and for a company that relies on some sort of trust from its users, you'd think some impartiality would be a better longer-term business strategy.

But is it really illegal? And on what basis? Maybe slander laws?

Google certainly makes a living off of selling advertising and 'priming' search results. It is known and supported. Why is Yelp held to a higher standard? (Note, I'm not defending them here, just saying that I think this case may have to set a precedent - one way or another.)

Lastly, the comments from Yelp are interesting. "The reps can't change the reviews" "it is an automated system" - well, duh - the rep makes a phone call, threatens, doesn't close the sale, enters the failed attempt into their system - which then automatically pumps the bad and smothers the good reviews. The defense is interesting, as it is basically saying "our reps didn't do anything bad, we've institutionalized and automated this practice."

Was Yelp ever really that relevant anyway?

[DonRocks]

Scion has become the first Washington-area plaintiff to join this lawsuit.

[Miami Danny]

Scion has become the first Washington-area plaintiff to join this lawsuit.

Innocent until proven guilty? 15 million plus users and a handful of poorly reviewed businesses decide to sue. Sounds more like sour grapes to me. I suppose City Paper doesn't press for advertising dollars from its endlessly promoted 'best of the year' issue? I suppose none of these businesses have ever been reviewed or publicized by publications that also have paid advertising? I don't see how that's any different.

[jayandstacey]

Innocent until proven guilty? 15 million plus users and a handful of poorly reviewed businesses decide to sue. Sounds more like sour grapes to me. I suppose City Paper doesn't press for advertising dollars from its endlessly promoted 'best of the year' issue? I suppose none of these businesses have ever been reviewed or publicized by publications that also have paid advertising? I don't see how that's any different.

To answer my own question from before, what is different here is that Yelp allegedly left only bad reviews posted when potential clients didn't pony up. And that may be misrepresentation as the site advertises to be driven by user reviews, right? It may also be extortion if it biases those reviews to the negative as punishment for non-payment. It would seem that commercial practice is to highlight (promote and advocate) paying clients - but I suspect that leaving only negative reviews for those clients that don't pay is going to be considered extortion.

The 15 million users isn't relevant except as proof of the responsibility yelp might have to not extort, and maybe to help calculate damages. And yes, innocent until proven guilty - but this thread already has a few examples of this precise practice and few, if any, defenders of Yelp. And remember that it takes an extraordinary will to overcome inertia and actually go through with a full-on lawsuit. So the indication that a handful of companies have joined is a likely indicator that there are more below the surface. How many? Dunno. But that's why judgements are typically to stop the practice altogether, not just for the plantiff.

[thetrain]

Scion has become the first Washington-area plaintiff to join this lawsuit.

Not a big monetary investment to join the suit when the legal work can be done on the cheap.

[vickie]

While I do not have the depth of details that many others have posted, I do have a couple of examples to add. My complaint with Yelp is based on inaccuracy as well as suppression of reviews. The top review you see of Buck's is dated 1/22/2010. It is positive (4 stars), but is inaccurate. In the review, the reviewer comments on food (deviled eggs, chicken liver, and a mozzarella, beet and pistachio salad) that has not been served at Buck's since I took over last June. It also states that we don't take reservations--a policy which changed last summer as well. Clearly this is an old review that has been marked with the wrong date, but there is no way to request it's removal.

Also, I haven't been tracking this for very long, but we have had at least one review removed. If you do a Buck's Google search, an excerpt of a review appears mentioning that I have taken over as Chef, but that review does not appear anywhere on the current list of reviews for Buck's.

[Miami Danny]

While I do not have the depth of details that many others have posted, I do have a couple of examples to add. My complaint with Yelp is based on inaccuracy as well as suppression of reviews. The top review you see of Buck's is dated 1/22/2010. It is positive (4 stars), but is inaccurate. In the review, the reviewer comments on food (deviled eggs, chicken liver, and a mozzarella, beet and pistachio salad) that has not been served at Buck's since I took over last June. It also states that we don't take reservations--a policy which changed last summer as well. Clearly this is an old review that has been marked with the wrong date, but there is no way to request it's removal.

Also, I haven't been tracking this for very long, but we have had at least one review removed. If you do a Buck's Google search, an excerpt of a review appears mentioning that I have taken over as Chef, but that review does not appear anywhere on the current list of reviews for Buck's.

Yelp has several ways for the user to list reviews-yelp sort/date/rating/elite...if you go by date you will see a different review at the top. Additionally, as the owner, you can respond directly to any review by clicking on 'add owner comment' on the lower right-hand corner of the review. I suggest you reply to the post and add the correct information-then users will understand that that particular review is inaccurate. As someone who has used yelp to help promote a business (I have never paid for an ad nor have I ever even been contacted by yelp sales staff), I have found that business owners who know how to use yelp can benefit tremendously from it. And it doesn't cost you anything.

[TedE]

Additionally, as the owner, you can respond directly to any review by clicking on 'add owner comment' on the lower right-hand corner of the review.

Weren't those functions just added partially as a result of the recent lawsuits? I thought owner responses were hidden from the public and only reviewed by Yelp staff (which pretty much defeats the purpose). Yelp will say it was to improve their service, but the timing is suspect to say the least. I have no idea if the legal challenges will stand up, but I find the behavior unethical.

When Yelp first came on the scene I took one look and dismissed it. The reviews often fell into two categories:

1) Reviewer is a sociopathic serial complainer

2) Reviewer is a plant

And the only person I know who is a gold star Yelper (or whatever they're called) unabashedly touts that he has received better service at some establishments because he is a Yelper and is known to the staff as such.

N=1, but then again i was always terrible at stats.

[Miami Danny]

Weren't those functions just added partially as a result of the recent lawsuits? I thought owner responses were hidden from the public and only reviewed by Yelp staff (which pretty much defeats the purpose). Yelp will say it was to improve their service, but the timing is suspect to say the least. I have no idea if the legal challenges will stand up, but I find the behavior unethical.

When Yelp first came on the scene I took one look and dismissed it. The reviews often fell into two categories:

1) Reviewer is a sociopathic serial complainer

2) Reviewer is a plant

And the only person I know who is a gold star Yelper (or whatever they're called) unabashedly touts that he has received better service at some establishments because he is a Yelper and is known to the staff as such.

N=1, but then again i was always terrible at stats.

The owner comment feature has been up for at least six months-I don't know anything about the motivation. The rest of what you post happens everywhere on the internet, not just yelp. Maybe you should take another look.

[Dave Pressley]

The owner comment feature has been up for at least six months-I don't know anything about the motivation. The rest of what you post happens everywhere on the internet, not just yelp. Maybe you should take another look.

You can reply as the owner, but Yelp REQUIRES you to post a photo of yourself, specifically not of a building or your logo. I wonder why they don't require the same of the people that post initially?

[leleboo]

You can reply as the owner, but Yelp REQUIRES you to post a photo of yourself, specifically not of a building or your logo. I wonder why they don't require the same of the people that post initially?

I think the cynical answer is that Yelp does what is expedient, not necessarily what's right and/or ethical.

I should note that I'm a cynic.

[Miami Danny]

You can reply as the owner, but Yelp REQUIRES you to post a photo of yourself, specifically not of a building or your logo. I wonder why they don't require the same of the people that post initially?

I am listed as an owner of a business and there is no picture of me. Again, I think a lot of the "problems" business owners have are based on inability to use or understand the site.

[pizza man]

I read yelp, probably more than I should.

Having a little insight into the restaurant business, it is funny to read the inaccuracies in the reviews..

It's schlock, but it makes people feel important, so I guess it provides a useful service.

[brian robinson]

Yelp has several ways for the user to list reviews-yelp sort/date/rating/elite...if you go by date you will see a different review at the top. Additionally, as the owner, you can respond directly to any review by clicking on 'add owner comment' on the lower right-hand corner of the review. I suggest you reply to the post and add the correct information-then users will understand that that particular review is inaccurate. As someone who has used yelp to help promote a business (I have never paid for an ad nor have I ever even been contacted by yelp sales staff), I have found that business owners who know how to use yelp can benefit tremendously from it. And it doesn't cost you anything.

Although my thoughts on yelp have appeared earlier in this forum. It seems that the earlier complaint didn't stem from how the review was listed, but that it had a current date, even though the review was obviously from a much earlier time.

Also, it seems you are the only ardent and consistent defender of Yelp here on this board, which begs the question, are u affiliated with the site in any way? I wish some of the people i have worked with in my life were as passionate.

[Chris Cunningham]

YELP is crap...pure and simple

[Dave Pressley]

I am listed as an owner of a business and there is no picture of me. Again, I think a lot of the "problems" business owners have are based on inability to use or understand the site.

I just re-checked Yelp to make sure I was correct. It seems they have fixed this issue, but I am 100% positive that my statement was true not too long ago.

I do understand the site, thanks. And I think it sucks.

[astrid]

I don't know much about Yelp's business practice, but I do find it useful to get a sense of a restaurant. I can quickly scan through the reviews to get a sense of the place, ignore I'll-eat-anything folks and axe-grinder. The star system isn't anywhere near perfect, but generally speaking and if there is a critical mass of reviews, 4 star restaurants with lots of reviews will be good, 3+ stars restaurants might be very good or generically serviceable, less than 3 stars generally means there's some serious defect with the restaurant. Yelp generally gives me a better sense of a restaurant than reading restaurant critic reviews. It's like Amazon book reviews, you need to take the results with a bucket of salt, but it's far better than the alternative of no information at all.

For better or worse, Yelp has become the key clearinghouse for ratings information. So I'm glad that someone is forcing them to be a bit more ethnical.

[Miami Danny]

Although my thoughts on yelp have appeared earlier in this forum. It seems that the earlier complaint didn't stem from how the review was listed, but that it had a current date, even though the review was obviously from a much earlier time.

Also, it seems you are the only ardent and consistent defender of Yelp here on this board, which begs the question, are u affiliated with the site in any way? I wish some of the people i have worked with in my life were as passionate.

I have been asked before and no, I have absolutely no affiliation with yelp. It just seems that there is a lot of misinformation out there about yelp, and a sad tendency for people to jump on the bandwagon of trashing yelp. It seems that often people get it in their heads that a particular business is unworthy of their business and they simply can not stop trashing it. I imagine that is what happened with the Buck's review, where the poster went there maybe last year, but didn't post about it until this year. Things change and evolve, but obviously that poster hadn't been back, and the experience was festering in their mind. However, a simple response form the owner, correcting the facts, would probably go a long way to reach out to customers and potential customers. I have seen restaurant owners who are members here doing that very thing. I happen to think that the yelp community is an extremely important customer base, and a great way to interact with your customers, for free. It has always worked wonders for me.

[TheMoonwalker]

However, a simple response form the owner, correcting the facts, would probably go a long way to reach out to customers and potential customers.

I agree. It seems that business owners are able to post replies to user reviews as this was done too one of my reviews on Yelp. If the owner really wishes to have reviews updated, I think they'd have to either private message the reviewer, or reply to user reviews themselves. The review rebuttals are tacked onto the end of the original review, and I don't see why someone who took the time to read a review would skip the owner's response.

I've found Yelp EXTREMELY valuable to me in my food journeys, and also for random perusal of food images from restaurants I'm thinking about because I'm just a fattie like that. And just as I use Yelp to find places I want to eat across the country, I also use Trip Advisor to help me find things to do locally as well.

[Pat]

Having never owned a business, it's hard for me to be sure, but it would seem to eat up a lot of time to have to keep track of reviews on every possible site that could be reviewing my business and to be obligated to interact with the people posting the reviews. Putting the burden of this on the business owner--to understand the structure and mechanics of a variety of sites and to reply and manage the feedback for his or her company--doesn't seem too reasonable. It seems especially unreasonable with a site that so many business owners have had trouble with in terms of high pressure ad sales and disappearing reviews.

While I appreciate the input from restaurant owners here, I don't think anything less of managers, chefs, and owners who don't post here. Why should the burden be on them to defend themselves?

[Anna Blume]

I have to give some of the moderators at Yelp credit for closing the topic on the second day when a series of contentious personal attacks became the focus.

However, you may be interested to know that there was a conversation about Donrockwell.com that was initiated on 10/14/09, the last day its author was active as a new member here. According to the Elite Yelper:

At first, Don treated me nice and was all like "you could go far" kinda, now he deletes my comments and makes whole forum topics about "let's critique nicole's site!".

I encourage those more seasoned in the consequences of writing a post such as the one I'm composing now to delete it if thought wise, but I tried to substantiate at least some of the writer's claims. Neither the accounts of mentorship nor assessment of subsequent treatment sound plausible.

I wonder why moderators at Yelp neglected to delete the entire topic if they felt it unsubstantiated or at the very least, explain the reason for shutting it down.

[Dave Pressley]

I have been asked before and no, I have absolutely no affiliation with yelp. It just seems that there is a lot of misinformation out there about yelp, and a sad tendency for people to jump on the bandwagon of trashing yelp. It seems that often people get it in their heads that a particular business is unworthy of their business and they simply can not stop trashing it. I imagine that is what happened with the Buck's review, where the poster went there maybe last year, but didn't post about it until this year. Things change and evolve, but obviously that poster hadn't been back, and the experience was festering in their mind. However, a simple response form the owner, correcting the facts, would probably go a long way to reach out to customers and potential customers. I have seen restaurant owners who are members here doing that very thing. I happen to think that the yelp community is an extremely important customer base, and a great way to interact with your customers, for free. It has always worked wonders for me.

All right. I'll bite. Here's a little insight into one of my nights...

Within a month or two of Eventide's opening last year, I had a slam-packed bar on a Friday night. It was way too busy and people were packing themselves in like sardines. I went to the front door myself and started denying entrance to the restaurant unless you had a reservation upstairs in the dining room. I was being as nice as possible and probably over-explaining, if anything, about why I didn't want the bar to be too packed. One lady in particular came up to the door to try and get in. I asked her if she had a reservation for the dining room to which she replied that she didn't. I explained that the bar was at capacity and that we really didn't want a bar where people couldn't move...and that we were at our legal limit of people in the bar according to Arlington County anyway. I couldn't have been nicer to this woman. Really.

She told me that she had friends already in the bar and that they had a table and by the way, it was her birthday. I then told her that if her friends had a table and there was a seat waiting for her, I would absolutely let her in. She then tells me that if I let her in, one of her friends will get up from their seat and give her their chair. She even points out the table where her friends are seated...it's a 4-top with all 4 chairs being used and about 12 people standing around it. I try to explain to her that even if she takes a seat from her friend, it will contribute one more standing into the bar. All mathematical logic is lost on this person. So, I ask her to please wait outside for just a few minutes so I can let the bar crowd thin a bit (a group or two of the bar customers were just having a cocktail before their reservation upstairs, so I knew about 12 people would be leaving to go upstairs within the next 10 minutes.)

She proceeds to call her friends' cellphones (the ones in the bar already) and tell them that the "asshole doorguy" won't let her in. They all bum rush me at the front door and start giving me shit for not letting her in. I dealt with them as best as I could and sure enough, a few minutes later, I was able let the woman in...against my better judgment.

Then it really started. The group was overheard by a few members of my staff that they were going to "Yelp" about us. Badly...and they would make up stuff just to trash us. They weren't being secretive at all---they were talking shit in the bar, in the hallways and were even overheard in the restroom by one of my hostesses who just happened to be in there.

And they did. They, as a group, posted a bunch of random lies about the restaurant for the next couple of weeks. How do I know it was them? Most of them specified things on the menu that didn't even exist at Eventide and two of them mentioned how mean and rude the "doorguy" was.

I had a few guests tell me that they came here "despite all of the negative reviews on Yelp" and that they really enjoyed their dinners. God only knows how much business I lost because of people that believe wholeheartedly in Yelp reviews.

So...I tried to contact Yelp about removing the false reviews. No luck.

I logged in as an owner (where I was required to post a picture of myself against my better judgement...long since removed) and addressed a few of the comments. The first "review" after one of my "Owner comments" was for 1 star and read something like "Based on the owner's comments, I won't be visiting Eventide."

It was then that I stopped viewing their site. I just don't have the time, the interest or truthfully, the patience to add "Dealing with Yelp" to my list of daily duties.

After all of this went down, I asked some friends to post BS reviews on Yelp about the restaurant. I asked that they refrain from boosting our rating by assigning 5 stars to all reviews and to feel free to tank us with 1 star reviews. (In fact, I hadn't checked the site since until today and some of them are still up...try to guess which ones are completely false.)

In short (too late, I know ), there are liars out there with agendas. There are also good, honest people that rely on sites like Yelp for honest evaluations of businesses. There are people that believe that you should share as much positive energy as you do negative, maybe even more. There are also people who believe negative posts are just more fun to write.

I'm sure I'll get some negative feedback on this post. I really am not trying to be argumentative. I just wanted to share a story from my side.

-Dave

P.S. For good, accurate, honest restaurant reviews, check out the ones on OpenTable. They really seem to get the best, non-biased opinions out of people, in my opinion. Or this site, of course.

ETA: Miami Danny's comment "It just seems that there is a lot of misinformation out there about yelp, and a sad tendency for people to jump on the bandwagon of trashing yelp" made me remember the above story. Ther's a lot of BS out there...we all just have to figure out the best way to wade through it, I guess.

[backintheday]

They have us by the balls, and there isn’t a damn thing you can do about their unethical behavior. When, oh when, will someone FINALLY expose them for what they are doing to the businesses they are supposed to be supporting?

Well, yes, yes there is something that you can do. You can post in a thread like this in which someone (me) originally found the site purely by accident, posted today as a result of Don's oh-so-nice prompt, stumbled across the Yelp thread and read it only because I was searching for hotels on Yelp today and kept finding a LOT of conflicting information, and decided to read the thread as a result. You've all exposed me, Ms. Average Consumer, not only to an entirely different side of Yelp of which I was previously unaware, but also given me insights from business owners, managers, etc. who care enough about the issue to post in a public forum regarding their concerns. Will I give those businesses a second look when I'm in town? You bet. Will I start taking Yelp's comments with a lot more than a grain of salt? Absolutely. Not sure I'll even read the site any more, seeing what I've seen now. I'd noticed the annoying habit of bumping a "good" review to the top, regardless of the fact that it was months old, but never really understood why. Now I get it.

Incidentally, my concerns today were regarding seemingly bogus reviews that were evidently meant to slam the place but hadn't been removed. You know the type - "I've never stayed here, but as I was sitting in their lobby blatantly using their free wi-fi when I had no intention of visiting the hotel or their restaurant, the doorman kept opening the door and letting cold air in! I'll never stay here!" kind of thing that is so blatantly ridiculous, you can't help but laugh. Or the ones who really rave about a place, but give it two stars. What the heck??

So yes, you certainly can do something, and you did. And I'll tell my friends, and my friends will tell THEIR friends. I, for one, appreciate all those who have taken the time to share in this extremely informative thread.

(And now that I've posted twice - IN ONE DAY, people! - I'll slip back into the dark recesses of lurkdom from whence I came.)

[Keithstg]

My link

Seems as though Yelp has begun to alter its policies on reviews. One wonders if the deluge of lawsuits had anything to do with the changes.

[Andelman]

My link

Seems as though Yelp has begun to alter its policies on reviews. One wonders if the deluge of lawsuits had anything to do with the changes.

Still kind of lame. They now let you look at the 'filtered' reviews, but you really need to search to find the link on the businesses page (BTW, it is at the very bottom of the page). Why not have the filtered reviews at the top of the page, or not filter reviews at all? I also like that I have 7 filtered reviews for my shop, all of which are 5-star, that nobody will see unless they are really searching for them. I still don't get it.

[Sthitch]

This place ain't Milano

I am not sure how I am supposed to take this...

Actually, I would be interested in what people that are not "a gal who's been around the Little Italy block" have to say about Ruffino's, especially if they have dined as a couple as opposed to being part of a "dude crew."

[xdcx]

this seems like a pretty clear example of this

[weezy]

I gave up on Yelp after I found Chowhound. Between the poor grammar, worse spelling and over-the-top reviews -- both good and bad -- for what should rightly be reviewed as decent enough but middling restaurants, Yelp was and is a useless tool for me. Now I have chowhound and DonRockwell and feel confident that reading through the reviews of restaurants on these sites will give me a reasonably accurate idea of what to expect at any particular business. And let me just say, thank goodness for that!

[DonRocks]

this seems like a pretty clear example of this

Can you explain? There's no bigger detractor of Yelp than I am, but I don't see anything blatantly wrong here. What am I missing?