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Mark Furstenberg added a thoughtful piece on this "situation" describing the evolution challenges and questions one faces; in his case at Bread Furst, a bakery/cafe, but not a full serve restaurant.   From his latest blog post:   The comments add another layer of perspective (S)    (Lots of perspectives)

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1 hour ago, u-bet! said:

Tried and failed at Joe's Crab Shack.

Assuming all of this is true, and they made a legitimate effort (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), kudos to Joe's Crab Shack for trying. Others will follow, and this will eventually become the norm.

Also assuming this is all legitimate, I will always remember Joe's Crab Shack for being an early pioneer in this movement, and I want to say "thank you" to the organization for trying. How many people tried and failed before the Civil Rights Bill of 1964 came to fruition? Not to directly compare the two, other than that they both involve radical, societal-level changes that benefit the poor more than the wealthy, and involve a degree of selflessness in order to comply with the changes.

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On 10/14/2015 at 7:05 PM, Marty L. said:

This is how you do it:

"Danny Meyer Restaurants To Eliminate Tipping" by Pete Wells on nytimes.com

Just as in Europe:  One price, wages included.

But if Danny Meyer plans to keep servers' income steady and yet still significantly raise kitchen workers' pay, presumably the listed prices will have to be raised by more than 20-25%, no?

Will be interesting to watch.

Don, please feel free to move this to another thread, if appropriate.

Danny Meyer Admits Large Portion of Staff Left Over No-Tipping Changes - About 30 to 40 percent of “legacy” front-of-house staff were lost, he says, by Serena Dai Feb 6, 2018, on ny.eater.com.

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1 hour ago, dcs said:

The Danny Meyer comment is striking.  All restaurants have heavy turnover.  FOH turnover is high....but 30-40% legacy FOH staff seems very high.  That is a heavy hit on experienced people and requires a tremendous amount of training.  If it weren't unusually high it wouldn't have referenced it.

32 minutes ago, Al Dente said:

What else would you expect from the current administration? Fuck the working stiffs!

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-department-labor-tipping-wage-theft-799683 by Nicole Goodkind from Newsweek.

Lots of stories wherein owners control tips and don't compensate FOH staff as expected.  It ranges from well known well respected restaurants to clubs and beyond.  If the administration gives this process its blessing it will simply make it tougher on working stiffs.

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""We believe employers will pocket between $523 million and $13.2 billion in workers’ tips annually, with $5.8 billion being our best estimate," according to the study. It based its analysis on the notion that employers would pocket anything their tipped workers earn that is over the hourly wage that these same workers could get in a non-tipping job."

 

This is propaganda, not journalism.

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3 hours ago, meatwad said:

""We believe employers will pocket between $523 million and $13.2 billion in workers’ tips annually, with $5.8 billion being our best estimate," according to the study. It based its analysis on the notion that employers would pocket anything their tipped workers earn that is over the hourly wage that these same workers could get in a non-tipping job."

This is propaganda, not journalism.

3 hours ago, Al Dente said:

Propaganda? How so?

I haven't read anything other than these two posts, but I'm pretty sure I can answer this, and I have a feeling I may end up agreeing with meatwad.

Being so cocksure that you're willing to use *decimal points* when dealing with such large numbers - especially dealing with matters involving money - is misguided at best, malevolent at worst. I'm willing to bet that whoever wrote this quote is worried about being shortchanged, and I have no idea whether it's management or labor, so I have absolutely no opinion about the philosophical or moral issues behind the statement.

I just wrote about this exact same thing: See my post about Robert Parker assigning point scores to wines on the 100-point scale. It's BS, and such precision is made to fool the reader into believing that a more rigorous and thorough examination of <choose your subject> was made, than actually was made, by someone with greater expertise than they actually have. In Parker's case, it was to acquire readership and sell subscriptions; I don't what the above quote is for, but my immediate reaction is skepticism.

meatwad, without me reading any further: Am I right?

You know, the difference between presentation, persuasion, rhetoric, and propaganda can be dangerously subtle. And then you have people who honestly believe their own bullshit, which is another problem entirely (refer to Waco, TX).

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28 minutes ago, dcs said:

Here’s What Happened When One L.A. Restaurant Went Tip-Free, by Brittany Martin, April 23, 2018, on lamag.com.  That restaurant would be Barcito.

This reminds me of the airlines with the rush to Basic Economy fares to trick the search engines.  The total price is the same in the end, but if you lose the initial search, you're dead in the water as a business.  

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On 10/27/2015 at 9:16 PM, johnb said:

Another example.  And I believe Don himself has championed this one -- Giving the same 20% tip at a carryout (or even any tip) as at a full service restaurant.  As if stuffing the food in a bag and adding a few napkins equals the work done by a server, including cleaning up and resetting the table, taking order, bringing beverages/water several times, serving, taking dishes away, wiping, bring check, take check, bring check back, etc etc.  Yes it's crazy.

Counter Service Tipping: Who Gives? By Seth Kugel, September 15, 2019, on nytimes.com.

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When a new restaurant industry emerges, it will be time to eliminate tipping. 

If someone serving me at a restaurant isn't feeling well, or just broke up with their spouse, I really don't want them smiling and trying to be friendly, any more than I should smile and be friendly as a customer in the same situation. This is, or should be, a relationship among equals, and I have no right to determine the financial well-being of a complete stranger.

Why should someone working at 6 AM on a Tuesday morning earn so much less than someone working at 6 PM on a Thursday night?

"The Disturbing History of Tipping in the U.S.: 'It's Literally a Slave Wage'" by Taylor Mooney on cbsnews.com

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Union Square Hospitality is eliminating its "hospitality included" policy and going back to a tipping system. From the NYT.

Quote

Mr. Meyer said in an interview that he still believes that tipping contributes to inequitable pay, wage instability and other problems, and that he is collaborating with the national One Fair Wage campaign to eliminate it. But as the restaurants begin rehiring today — about 95 percent of the staff has been laid off since March — he is unwilling to deny any extra compensation that might be available to employees in a time of economic crisis.

 

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I was in a carryout bakery yesterday, and there was a cash tip jar by the register. I had used a credit card before seeing it (one of those 180-degree spin-around 15-20-25% bandits), and I asked the gentleman at the register if they preferred their tip in cash, or on the card. His response surprised me:

’If you leave it on the card, it will be divided with our bake staff as well.’

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The sneaky tips piss me off. I have a list. Top of it, Cafe Colline. It just seems rude when in a cute little French Cafe. Also, why do fast food places slow me down by offering me a tip screen? I'm not tipping at a fast food place. Just raise the prices FFS.

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On 8/5/2023 at 3:06 PM, NolaCaine said:

The sneaky tips piss me off. I have a list. Top of it, Cafe Colline. It just seems rude when in a cute little French Cafe. Also, why do fast food places slow me down by offering me a tip screen? I'm not tipping at a fast food place. Just raise the prices FFS.

Seriously?

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On 8/4/2023 at 10:26 PM, DonRocks said:

I was in a carryout bakery yesterday, and there was a cash tip jar by the register. I had used a credit card before seeing it (one of those 180-degree spin-around 15-20-25% bandits), and I asked the gentleman at the register if they preferred their tip in cash, or on the card. His response surprised me:

’If you leave it on the card, it will be divided with our bake staff as well.’

All tips should be divided among all staff - especially the dishwasher and the guy that cleans up at night.

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This was a 20% tip I left on a none-armed bandit about 30 minutes ago.

IMG_0972.png

To save people some trouble, it included the taxes when calculating the 20%.

Without Knowing-knowing, I’m pretty sure each establishment sets its own parameters for these things.

Buyer beware and buyer be aware.

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I'm going to throw myself on the mercy of the court and rely on the wisdom of the group for guidance on two tipping questions in the modern era.

 

Question #1 is about ordering food via app and picking it up yourself at any restaurant (fast food, middle tier, or high end).  The process is the same regardless of the price of the food:  you order on the app, pay on the app, go to the restaurant and someone hands you a bag of food and you leave.  During the entire process from ordering to eating, you have approximately 4 seconds of contact with an employee.  What do you tip on that?  You are getting less service and doing more work than when you go to McDonalds and you wouldn't think about tipping there.  And you probably wouldn't tip at Chipotle (where I think you can order on an app), so why would you tip at say ChiKo, or Chang Chang?  What do you folks tip, and does it matter if it's a Chipotle-type place vs a Chang Chang?

 

Question #2 is about Initiative 82 (the fair wage tax or whatever the proper term is).  My normal tip is 20% after taxes, and rounding up, and then maybe a little more if the service is good.  Lately I've been seeing various "fair wage" charges added to some bills and they have been from 3% to 5%.  What do people do in these circumstances?   Personally, I get annoyed that the restaurant owner's have put me in the middle of their business expenses and payroll process and I've been reducing my 20% tip by the amount of the "fair wage" charge.  I realize I'm probably penalizing the exact people I 82 is trying to help, but I'm tired of being nickel and dimed with these additional charges.  Just raise the price to cover the cost of doing business!  

 

 

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For takeout, I usually tip 10%.  You didn't ask, but I try to avoid third-party apps when ordering, although I will gladly use a restaurant's own website/low cost app.  The big apps take a huge chunk of revenue on each order.

Initiative 82 is going to require some serious recalibration within the industry.  I hear your point about putting customers in the middle, which is what the service fees do, and would likely do the same at higher-end restaurants where I know the servers are making well over the minimum wage (after including tips). My issue with the Initiative is that it still leaves the back of the house earning far, far less than the front of the house and even exacerbates the discrepancy. 

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On 11/3/2023 at 9:26 AM, Ericandblueboy said:

There has to be some transparency in pricing so we can decide which restaurants to go to.  I don't like it when the menu price doesn't include all the "fees" and you're still expected to 20% on top of the fees?  

 

This article is from May:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/05/25/dc-tipping-guidelines-after-initiative-82/

Here's an excerpt:  The attorney general said restaurants and bars must “clearly and prominently disclose fees” at the start of the ordering process, and they must accurately describe the reason for the fee. 

Here is another:  The D.C. attorney general has said service charges must be disclosed at the beginning of the ordering process and restaurants must use the money for the purpose stated on the menu or via the server

Seems like 99% of the places I eat at are not doing that.

I think the only time a server has said anything at the start of the ordering process was recently at Maketto.  They guy mentioned a 20% charge at the start of the meal and again when he brought the bill.  That was a first for me and I tipped him extra for being so up front about it!  

 

 

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On 11/9/2023 at 6:50 PM, Ericandblueboy said:

I hadn't seen this article before. As I was reading and before I got to the part where Clyde's management explained it, I thought, well they can remove a temporary fee, but menu prices going down is far more unlikely. Bingo.

I've paid this fee there and it's not really affected the tip I leave. It's the inconsistency of them everywhere that's a nuisance and presumably is why the AG demanded they give detailed explanations about what everything is for and where it goes. They seem to have done that, though the fact it's sort of going to a general pot for rising operating costs might not make for the strongest case in court.

This whole territory is still so unsettled it's hard to know what to think. That's why it was interesting when I was out with a group recently and there was a collective sheesh reaction to the 20% service fee, but it was really the already customary autograt for a large group, done to ensure the server gets properly tipped. (We were a party of 7 with separate checks, so it was as applicable in 2023 as it would have been years ago.)

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On 11/9/2023 at 6:50 PM, Ericandblueboy said:

Same group sued Knead Hospitality (Mi Vida, Succotash, Gatsby, and others) and got them to remove their Initiative 82 fee, per Washingtonian. How much longer until restaurants just raise the cost of menu items and eliminate tips entirely? It's just too confusing. 

I went to L'Ardente last week and had a fantastic meal. Menu clearly stated that 20% tip would be included and the bill highlighted the 20% service charge to make it clear that it was already added. "Great! Very clear and easy," I thought. My brother and I split the check and since he hadn't looked at the bill I flagged for him that service was already included. Because L'Ardente uses the portable devices to pay, the server was standing right there and hemmed and hawed and said "Well, that is a service charge that gets distributed to everyone who works in the restaurant and isn't really a tip for the service you received so..." I had already paid so too late for her! But my brother was still in the process of signing his check and because we did get very good service and was in a celebratory mood, he tipped 20% on top of that. I couldn't help but feel a little annoyed with the server and what was a fantastic and fun meal left me with a bitter taste in my mouth. 

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On 1/18/2024 at 10:36 AM, eatruneat said:

I went to L'Ardente last week and had a fantastic meal. Menu clearly stated that 20% tip would be included and the bill highlighted the 20% service charge to make it clear that it was already added. 

I've been there once when they didn't mention the included tip and once when they did.  When they didn't mention it, I felt it was an attempt at a shakedown or a double tip so I left nothing.  When did mention it, I left a couple extra bucks, but the service was really great as well.  Then again, if the second guy didn't mention the 20% fee, I would have left nothing.

In a town like this where there are lots of tourists and visitors eating out who are unfamiliar with our new reality, if they don't tell the customer there is a mandatory 20 or 23% tip, I feel it's an unscrupulous attempt at trying to take advantage of the unknowing and the unsuspecting.  

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