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DonRocks

The Washington Nationals (2005-), 2016 and 2017 National League East Division Champions

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Lots of memories with this game! I don't often use the term epic so this one was more like sloppy and remarkable! If i were the  second guessing kind I would have gone mad from the first inning on. This one goes down in the annals of DC sports lore as "you got your money's worth."

Glad I was not on that last metro train out of there! No joy in Mudville.

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19 hours ago, DonRocks said:

FWIW, the HBP (where Jon Jay jogged down the first-base line backwards) *clearly* hit Jay's bat first, then caromed off Jay's body. Not only did they miss the call, they didn't even mention this happened on television. Everyone was talking about whether Jay's wrist broke, and whether the pitch may have been a strike, but nobody even noticed that the HBP was actually a *foul ball*. 

Didn't anyone else besides us see this? This cost the Nats a run, as it came with the bases loaded.

If this turns out to be a one run game, this blown call is huge.

Am I the only person on the internet who saw this? The HBP was a foul ball! ETA - I was wrong ... see below.

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2 hours ago, DonRocks said:

Am I the only person on the internet who saw this? The HBP was a foul ball!

Don, I think you're thinking of the passed ball maybe?  The HBP got him squarely in the knee, his bat was nowhere near it.  Dusty did come out to argue if his bat had come around and therefore he technically swung at the pitch, but that was not the case either.

Also:

Quote

The next four Cubs hitters reached on 1) an intentional walk, 2) a passed-ball third strike, 3) a catcher's interference and, finally, 4) a hit-by-pitch. Yes, that's as rare as it sounds:

"None of the 2.73m half innings in our db have even had all 4 of these events. 22 w/ 3. Only 5 games had all 4."

Also: the world sucks, and everything is horrible

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1 hour ago, TedE said:

Don, I think you're thinking of the passed ball maybe?  The HBP got him squarely in the knee, his bat was nowhere near it.  Dusty did come out to argue if his bat had come around and therefore he technically swung at the pitch, but that was not the case either.

No, the HBP. It ricocheted off his bat, and hit him *after* that. If you have the game filmed, rewind and take a look. He ran down the first base line backwards because he was looking to see if the umpire was going to call it. Baker was complaining about the wrong thing - Jay checked his swing, but made contact with the ball in doing so.

The fact that literally *nobody* else is screaming bloody murder about this makes me wonder if *we* saw it wrong. It was during the replay, when the announcers were seeing if he checked his swing. As they were saying, 'Yep, he checked it,' we both shouted out, at the exact same moment, "HEY! The ball hit his bat!" Either we both missed something, or everybody else in the world is missing this, which leads me to believe that we missed something, but I have *got* to see that replay again in order to sleep at night.

---

EDIT - Our mistake. We thought it hit the bat, but it hit his leg. This is the only thing that could have made sense.

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59 minutes ago, DonRocks said:

No, the HBP. It ricocheted off his bat, and hit him *after* that. If you have the game filmed, rewind and take a look. He ran down the first base line backwards because he was looking to see if the umpire was going to call it. Baker was complaining about the wrong thing - Jay checked his swing, but made contact with the ball in doing so.

The fact that literally *nobody* else is screaming bloody murder about this makes me wonder if *we* saw it wrong. It was during the replay, when the announcers were seeing if he checked his swing. As they were saying, 'Yep, he checked it,' we both shouted out, at the exact same moment, "HEY! The ball hit his bat!" Either we both missed something, or everybody else in the world is missing this, which leads me to believe that we missed something, but I have *got* to see that replay again in order to sleep at night.

---

EDIT - Our mistake. We thought it hit the bat, but it hit his leg. This is the only thing that could have made sense.

Yeah, this one:

https://www.mlb.com/video/heyward-scores-on-jays-hbp/c-1862904883

In the full speed pull-back shot the redirection on the ball makes it look like it could have caromed off of his bat, but the replay clearly shows he was nowhere near it.

On another note: the only time I was screaming at the TV due to a managerial decision was when Dusty pulled Albers after the 4th (actually, that is incorrect.  I almost threw something at the TV when Solis entered the game).  Max is a generational talent at starting pitcher.  He will be a perpetual CY candidate in his prime as long as he's healthy.  Do you know what he isn't?  An established middle reliever with a 1.62 ERA who hadn't given up a run in the post-season!  Max is there if you need him.  The Nats did not need him in the 5th.  Send Albers out there for the 5th and maybe 6th.  He just threw you a 1-2-3 inning on 12 (14?) pitches!! Put him on a short rope, if he shows signs of trouble then you go get Max to bridge to Kintzler/Madson/Doolittle.  Dusty did it because Dusty could.  I can't get it out of my mind that he went with Max in that situation because he thought "How cool would it be for Max to give us a couple innings of shut down ball after Gio sh*t the bed?  After all, he told me he really wanted to".  Every other instinct and stat available to him says stick with Albers until he's done.  GAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

And it wasn't just the pitching match up, this had downstream effects.  Who pinch hit for Albers in the switch?  Robles, which made him unavailable for the rest of the game.  In a do-or-die close game in the later innings, what do you do?  Send your best outfield defense out there.  Know who is not our best outfield defender?  Werth.  Now I know there are a lot of Werth-haters out there, and you have to I've him credit for getting on base 4 times in clutch at bats, but in a one run decision losing a playable ball "in the lights" could literally have meant the game.  Watch the slo mo replay.  His eyes are tracking the ball as it goes past his glove.  He may have lost sight of it temporarily in flight, but that is a catch you have to make.  I can't help but think that a plus OF defender (oh, I don't know, maybe someone like Victor Robles?!?) gets to the ball quicker and makes that play.

GAHHHHHHHH!!!!!

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The end result sucked.  The Scherzer inning was  a comedy of errors and unusualness with the most dire results. 

1 hour ago, TedE said:

 Max is a generational talent at starting pitcher.  He will be a perpetual CY candidate in his prime as long as he's healthy.  Do you know what he isn't?  An established middle reliever with a 1.62 ERA who hadn't given up a run in the post-season!  Max is there if you need him.  The Nats did not need him in the 5th.

A friend of mine who studies baseball like Einstein studied relativity stated that there is a long history of starters stinking as relievers in situations such as yesterday.

Maybe.  I wouldn't know.   Terrible results.  Most unusual game after the first four.

Wait til next year.

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6 minutes ago, DaveO said:

A friend of mine who studies baseball like Einstein studied relativity stated that there is a long history of starters stinking as relievers in situations such as yesterday.

Madison Bumgarner did this.  His success out of the pen in 2014 put this thought in the head of every stud starter and the managers who oversee them.  Sometimes it works (Kluber last year), most times it does not.

Read this article from last week.  Scroll to the chart about 2/3 down the page.  Bang head on desk.

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16 minutes ago, TedE said:

Madison Bumgarner did this.  His success out of the pen in 2014 put this thought in the head of every stud starter and the managers who oversee them.  Sometimes it works (Kluber last year), most times it does not.

Read this article from last week.  Scroll to the chart about 2/3 down the page.  Bang head on desk.

Cripes.  Loss of fastball velocity.  Oiiiii.

I tend not to critique managers and manager decisions.  They are getting paid the big bucks and have big staffs with all that kind of data.  I ASSUME.  Maybe they see that info, maybe they don't.  Maybe they see it and don't pay attention.

I'm still not going to criticize the manager.  Crappy miserable freaking terrible results and weird game after the first 4.  I don't believe in curses.  Go get em next year.

 

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I'm not saying this after the fact because I was screaming it at the TV last night in real time. And I haven't read anything above, so maybe people agree with me. I mean, I was screaming at the tv.

Leave Albers in. He has been the most reliable reliever the team has had throughout the season. They brought him up not long after the season started and he had a career year. Last night he pitched one inning and threw up all 0s. Unfortunate he was going to be the first batter, but suck it up. Figure you only have two outs to work with that inning (hey, maybe he walks!) and get the top of the lineup again, with your most reliable reliever in for another inning with a lead.

He wouldn't have been my first choice to bring in. That would have been Roark, who was thoroughly rested and ready. He looked very miserable the last few days just sitting there, not being used. But, whatever.

DO NOT bring Scherzer in. I thought that was insane. That should have been kept as a last ditch, we're in the 15th inning kind of thing. Just because all of the other teams do it doesn't mean we should.  Dusty looked completely helpless while Max was melting down. He knew he couldn't take him out. He should not have been in to begin with. He threw  about 100 pitches Monday coming off an injury and, in the unlikely event the Nats actually moved on, he would have been needed to pitch in LA Saturday for, oh, 100 or so pitches.  Such a stupid move. I was screaming.  Why the other teams do it is irrelevant. It was idiotic in that situation.

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My overall impression is that neither team deserves to go much farther in the playoffs. That was just so mistake-filled and sloppy. The umpiring was terrible. The strategy (challenging on the very first play and losing?) had my sweet even-tempered wife yelling at the TV. That in itself was a bad sign. Up 4-1, then down by 4 and coming back. And it all could have ended with us winning in a walk off.

The Cubs were terrible. So many errors! We were just a little bit more, as I see it.

Louisiana native here will root for Houston for the rest of the playoffs. Harvey Tough!

Not even reading or following social media on the topic. What was it Rogers Hornsby told a reporter when asked what he does over the winter? "Sit looking out my window and waiting for spring!"

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