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The Washington Nationals (2005-), 2019 WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS! W00000000000T!


DonRocks

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Lots of memories with this game! I don't often use the term epic so this one was more like sloppy and remarkable! If i were the  second guessing kind I would have gone mad from the first inning on. This one goes down in the annals of DC sports lore as "you got your money's worth."

Glad I was not on that last metro train out of there! No joy in Mudville.

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19 hours ago, DonRocks said:

FWIW, the HBP (where Jon Jay jogged down the first-base line backwards) *clearly* hit Jay's bat first, then caromed off Jay's body. Not only did they miss the call, they didn't even mention this happened on television. Everyone was talking about whether Jay's wrist broke, and whether the pitch may have been a strike, but nobody even noticed that the HBP was actually a *foul ball*. 

Didn't anyone else besides us see this? This cost the Nats a run, as it came with the bases loaded.

If this turns out to be a one run game, this blown call is huge.

Am I the only person on the internet who saw this? The HBP was a foul ball! ETA - I was wrong ... see below.

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2 hours ago, DonRocks said:

Am I the only person on the internet who saw this? The HBP was a foul ball!

Don, I think you're thinking of the passed ball maybe?  The HBP got him squarely in the knee, his bat was nowhere near it.  Dusty did come out to argue if his bat had come around and therefore he technically swung at the pitch, but that was not the case either.

Also:

Quote

The next four Cubs hitters reached on 1) an intentional walk, 2) a passed-ball third strike, 3) a catcher's interference and, finally, 4) a hit-by-pitch. Yes, that's as rare as it sounds:

"None of the 2.73m half innings in our db have even had all 4 of these events. 22 w/ 3. Only 5 games had all 4."

Also: the world sucks, and everything is horrible

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1 hour ago, TedE said:

Don, I think you're thinking of the passed ball maybe?  The HBP got him squarely in the knee, his bat was nowhere near it.  Dusty did come out to argue if his bat had come around and therefore he technically swung at the pitch, but that was not the case either.

No, the HBP. It ricocheted off his bat, and hit him *after* that. If you have the game filmed, rewind and take a look. He ran down the first base line backwards because he was looking to see if the umpire was going to call it. Baker was complaining about the wrong thing - Jay checked his swing, but made contact with the ball in doing so.

The fact that literally *nobody* else is screaming bloody murder about this makes me wonder if *we* saw it wrong. It was during the replay, when the announcers were seeing if he checked his swing. As they were saying, 'Yep, he checked it,' we both shouted out, at the exact same moment, "HEY! The ball hit his bat!" Either we both missed something, or everybody else in the world is missing this, which leads me to believe that we missed something, but I have *got* to see that replay again in order to sleep at night.

---

EDIT - Our mistake. We thought it hit the bat, but it hit his leg. This is the only thing that could have made sense.

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59 minutes ago, DonRocks said:

No, the HBP. It ricocheted off his bat, and hit him *after* that. If you have the game filmed, rewind and take a look. He ran down the first base line backwards because he was looking to see if the umpire was going to call it. Baker was complaining about the wrong thing - Jay checked his swing, but made contact with the ball in doing so.

The fact that literally *nobody* else is screaming bloody murder about this makes me wonder if *we* saw it wrong. It was during the replay, when the announcers were seeing if he checked his swing. As they were saying, 'Yep, he checked it,' we both shouted out, at the exact same moment, "HEY! The ball hit his bat!" Either we both missed something, or everybody else in the world is missing this, which leads me to believe that we missed something, but I have *got* to see that replay again in order to sleep at night.

---

EDIT - Our mistake. We thought it hit the bat, but it hit his leg. This is the only thing that could have made sense.

Yeah, this one:

https://www.mlb.com/video/heyward-scores-on-jays-hbp/c-1862904883

In the full speed pull-back shot the redirection on the ball makes it look like it could have caromed off of his bat, but the replay clearly shows he was nowhere near it.

On another note: the only time I was screaming at the TV due to a managerial decision was when Dusty pulled Albers after the 4th (actually, that is incorrect.  I almost threw something at the TV when Solis entered the game).  Max is a generational talent at starting pitcher.  He will be a perpetual CY candidate in his prime as long as he's healthy.  Do you know what he isn't?  An established middle reliever with a 1.62 ERA who hadn't given up a run in the post-season!  Max is there if you need him.  The Nats did not need him in the 5th.  Send Albers out there for the 5th and maybe 6th.  He just threw you a 1-2-3 inning on 12 (14?) pitches!! Put him on a short rope, if he shows signs of trouble then you go get Max to bridge to Kintzler/Madson/Doolittle.  Dusty did it because Dusty could.  I can't get it out of my mind that he went with Max in that situation because he thought "How cool would it be for Max to give us a couple innings of shut down ball after Gio sh*t the bed?  After all, he told me he really wanted to".  Every other instinct and stat available to him says stick with Albers until he's done.  GAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

And it wasn't just the pitching match up, this had downstream effects.  Who pinch hit for Albers in the switch?  Robles, which made him unavailable for the rest of the game.  In a do-or-die close game in the later innings, what do you do?  Send your best outfield defense out there.  Know who is not our best outfield defender?  Werth.  Now I know there are a lot of Werth-haters out there, and you have to I've him credit for getting on base 4 times in clutch at bats, but in a one run decision losing a playable ball "in the lights" could literally have meant the game.  Watch the slo mo replay.  His eyes are tracking the ball as it goes past his glove.  He may have lost sight of it temporarily in flight, but that is a catch you have to make.  I can't help but think that a plus OF defender (oh, I don't know, maybe someone like Victor Robles?!?) gets to the ball quicker and makes that play.

GAHHHHHHHH!!!!!

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The end result sucked.  The Scherzer inning was  a comedy of errors and unusualness with the most dire results. 

1 hour ago, TedE said:

 Max is a generational talent at starting pitcher.  He will be a perpetual CY candidate in his prime as long as he's healthy.  Do you know what he isn't?  An established middle reliever with a 1.62 ERA who hadn't given up a run in the post-season!  Max is there if you need him.  The Nats did not need him in the 5th.

A friend of mine who studies baseball like Einstein studied relativity stated that there is a long history of starters stinking as relievers in situations such as yesterday.

Maybe.  I wouldn't know.   Terrible results.  Most unusual game after the first four.

Wait til next year.

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6 minutes ago, DaveO said:

A friend of mine who studies baseball like Einstein studied relativity stated that there is a long history of starters stinking as relievers in situations such as yesterday.

Madison Bumgarner did this.  His success out of the pen in 2014 put this thought in the head of every stud starter and the managers who oversee them.  Sometimes it works (Kluber last year), most times it does not.

Read this article from last week.  Scroll to the chart about 2/3 down the page.  Bang head on desk.

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16 minutes ago, TedE said:

Madison Bumgarner did this.  His success out of the pen in 2014 put this thought in the head of every stud starter and the managers who oversee them.  Sometimes it works (Kluber last year), most times it does not.

Read this article from last week.  Scroll to the chart about 2/3 down the page.  Bang head on desk.

Cripes.  Loss of fastball velocity.  Oiiiii.

I tend not to critique managers and manager decisions.  They are getting paid the big bucks and have big staffs with all that kind of data.  I ASSUME.  Maybe they see that info, maybe they don't.  Maybe they see it and don't pay attention.

I'm still not going to criticize the manager.  Crappy miserable freaking terrible results and weird game after the first 4.  I don't believe in curses.  Go get em next year.

 

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I'm not saying this after the fact because I was screaming it at the TV last night in real time. And I haven't read anything above, so maybe people agree with me. I mean, I was screaming at the tv.

Leave Albers in. He has been the most reliable reliever the team has had throughout the season. They brought him up not long after the season started and he had a career year. Last night he pitched one inning and threw up all 0s. Unfortunate he was going to be the first batter, but suck it up. Figure you only have two outs to work with that inning (hey, maybe he walks!) and get the top of the lineup again, with your most reliable reliever in for another inning with a lead.

He wouldn't have been my first choice to bring in. That would have been Roark, who was thoroughly rested and ready. He looked very miserable the last few days just sitting there, not being used. But, whatever.

DO NOT bring Scherzer in. I thought that was insane. That should have been kept as a last ditch, we're in the 15th inning kind of thing. Just because all of the other teams do it doesn't mean we should.  Dusty looked completely helpless while Max was melting down. He knew he couldn't take him out. He should not have been in to begin with. He threw  about 100 pitches Monday coming off an injury and, in the unlikely event the Nats actually moved on, he would have been needed to pitch in LA Saturday for, oh, 100 or so pitches.  Such a stupid move. I was screaming.  Why the other teams do it is irrelevant. It was idiotic in that situation.

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My overall impression is that neither team deserves to go much farther in the playoffs. That was just so mistake-filled and sloppy. The umpiring was terrible. The strategy (challenging on the very first play and losing?) had my sweet even-tempered wife yelling at the TV. That in itself was a bad sign. Up 4-1, then down by 4 and coming back. And it all could have ended with us winning in a walk off.

The Cubs were terrible. So many errors! We were just a little bit more, as I see it.

Louisiana native here will root for Houston for the rest of the playoffs. Harvey Tough!

Not even reading or following social media on the topic. What was it Rogers Hornsby told a reporter when asked what he does over the winter? "Sit looking out my window and waiting for spring!"

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Dusty's out. They're not rehiring him. Didn't even negotiate for that new contract they'd been promising right up until late in the season. The contracts of the rest of the coaching staff have expired too. 

I didn't agree with some of his managing decisions--and he really botched that Strasburg explanation--but I'd have given him another year. The Nats sure do run through managers.

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1 hour ago, Pat said:

Dusty's out. They're not rehiring him. Didn't even negotiate for that new contract they'd been promising right up until late in the season. The contracts of the rest of the coaching staff have expired too. 

I didn't agree with some of his managing decisions--and he really botched that Strasburg explanation--but I'd have given him another year. The Nats sure do run through managers.

This means they terminated the contract of Mike Maddux as well, who absolutely needs to be brought back as pitching coach, but they need to leave that up to the new manager at least for appearances.  Hell, he could be the new manager.  Hopefully they've pulled him aside and said as much.

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1 hour ago, Pat said:

Dusty's out. They're not rehiring him. Didn't even negotiate for that new contract they'd been promising right up until late in the season. The contracts of the rest of the coaching staff have expired too. 

I didn't agree with some of his managing decisions--and he really botched that Strasburg explanation--but I'd have given him another year. The Nats sure do run through managers.

I was expecting this, and as much as I hate to say it, he needed to go - if only for psychological reasons.

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3 hours ago, TedE said:

This means they terminated the contract of Mike Maddux as well, who absolutely needs to be brought back as pitching coach, but they need to leave that up to the new manager at least for appearances.  Hell, he could be the new manager.  Hopefully they've pulled him aside and said as much.

Per what Chelsea Janes wrote several days ago, all of the coaches' contracts ended because they were due to end.  They can certainly bring people back. I'm not going out on a limb to say that Jacque Jones will not be back as assistant hitting coach.

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3 hours ago, DonRocks said:

I was expecting this, and as much as I hate to say it, he needed to go - if only for psychological reasons.

Is there a psychological reason they can't have any manager last more than 2 years?  It's kind of crazy. Boswell has an article on how they're going to have a hard time finding anybody better. I would think the frontrunner might be John Farrell, whom the Red Sox dumped because he lost two ALDS in a row. (Or Jayson Werth. I will not give up my dream.)

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Dusty is an older-school players coach, which was a great fit for this current club.

I don't blame him for the past two NLDS losses -- Nationals had plenty of chances to win both on the field, and they didn't. That predates Dusty.

I also believe managers make the least impact across all the major sports when it comes to tactical decisions. 

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1 hour ago, will_5198 said:

Dusty is an older-school players coach, which was a great fit for this current club.

I don't blame him for the past two NLDS losses -- Nationals had plenty of chances to win both on the field, and they didn't. That predates Dusty.

I also believe managers make the least impact across all the major sports when it comes to tactical decisions. 

It's not fair, and *someone* (by definition) needs to have the lowest percentage of series-clinching wins. 0-10 is Hard Luck City.

"Dusty Baker Is October's Heartbreak Kid, and It's Hard To Figure Out Why"  by Jason Foster on sportingnews.com

Scherzer's implosion turned Dusty into low-hanging fruit.

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17 hours ago, Pat said:

Is there a psychological reason they can't have any manager last more than 2 years?  It's kind of crazy. Boswell has an article on how they're going to have a hard time finding anybody better. I would think the frontrunner might be John Farrell, whom the Red Sox dumped because he lost two ALDS in a row. (Or Jayson Werth. I will not give up my dream.)

Jayson Werth would be an interesting choice but in my experience he is too contemptuous of the press to suit the Lerners. (His contempt might even be part of his popularity among the players). Managers need to deal with the press and be more respectful to fans, even the annoying ones like me who critique everything. Actually I am not the back seat driver or second guesser some fans are online!

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(I cannot get used to the Astros being in the American League)

4 hours ago, Steve R. said:

As to why Houston is in the American League, I think that the decision sucked & that the Nationals should be there instead.  When Montreal folded, it was the perfect opportunity to even out the leagues and bolster the East Coast rivalries.

That would have been great IMHO.  A Nationals/Orioles rivalry would get exciting and heated.  (I frankly like both teams.)  The owners have to already hate one another as they have been fighting on how to divide up the TV market for years.  (two guys that will litigate this thing to death).  I'm sure there is still a core resentment in Baltimore towards Washington.  Would have been a fiery rivalry.

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Well, here we go! Again.

(checks pre-season prognostications; SI predicts a Nats-Yanks Series)  Yup, looking good!

(checks Boz's Opening Day eve musings)  You bet, this has to be the year!

Just one last confirmation that everything is going according to plan:

(checks in on the Caps, still leading the division and on a hot streak going into the final week of the regular season)  Absolutely, things have never been better!

This year everything is going to be different, I swear!!!

(Hold me :unsure: ....)

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I encourage people here to read (and possibly join) TalkNats.com - it's the most detail-oriented Nationals site I've come across. Yes, they published my Brooks Robinson series, but they didn't pay me anything; my mom taught one of the owners in 1st grade (!), we recently connected on Facebook (I haven't seen him in nearly 40 years), and I figured, well, why not. I made sure to publish Entry #7 here first thought. :)

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17 hours ago, Pat said:

Well, hello Bryce.

17 hours ago, dracisk said:

Not overrated!!

For those who haven't been following: Bryce Harper had more HRs (3) in just 4 ABs than 7 *teams* have had all season.

And the video in this tweet is an absolute riot - do yourself a favor, and click on it with the volume all the way up.

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Every 5th start might be an adventure for the near future.  Cole obviously didn't look great out there, and even worse his body language looked defeated well before he was pulled.  If the weather threatens any games in the coming week we may not have to work about that for a bit, though (built in rest day after home opener, Thursdays off twice before the end of the month)

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On 4/4/2018 at 10:22 AM, TedE said:

Every 5th start might be an adventure for the near future.  Cole obviously didn't look great out there, and even worse his body language looked defeated well before he was pulled.  If the weather threatens any games in the coming week we may not have to work about that for a bit, though (built in rest day after home opener, Thursdays off twice before the end of the month)

Cole slotted in again tonight instead of Gio (pushing the rotation down a day). I'm sure there is some managerial reason for this, combination of the upcoming scheduled off days and when they really think Hellickson will be ready.  Maybe he can push his ERA down into the teens ....

Eaton back to the DL with an ankle thing :mellow:

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Too bad the nickname "The Splendid Splinter" is already taken. That Harper broken bat home run was incredible. I wonder how one would estimate how far that would have gone had not so much of the energy gone into the bat and its destruction. I think FP said it went 406 or 408 ft. Wow.

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13 hours ago, Pat said:

Too bad the nickname "The Splendid Splinter" is already taken. That Harper broken bat home run was incredible. I wonder how one would estimate how far that would have gone had not so much of the energy gone into the bat and its destruction. I think FP said it went 406 or 408 ft. Wow.

While not as dramatic this game reminded me a lot of Dan Uggla's comeback heroics in 2015 that snapped an early season slump and jump-started a streak that saw them take a few series in a row.  Let's hope this one has the same effect.

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All's fair in love, war and 8th inning rallies.  That was quite the pair of games.

We don't really have any other options to beef up the bullpen, though.  Once it was clear it was out of hand I think Davey just pulled the 'chute and sent AJ Cole out there as a sacrificial target, once someone (probably Benoit) comes off the DL he is gone.  The fact that we need him as an available arm right now is scary.  Of the Big 3 only Doolittle has looked the part this year.  Hopefully Max and Stras can go long this weekend and give some of these guys an extended rest.

Scherzer v Kershaw Friday night.  Put on a pot of coffee or set your DVR.

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28 minutes ago, TedE said:

All's fair in love, war and 8th inning rallies.  That was quite the pair of games.

We don't really have any other options to beef up the bullpen, though.  Once it was clear it was out of hand I think Davey just pulled the 'chute and sent AJ Cole out there as a sacrificial target, once someone (probably Benoit) comes off the DL he is gone.  The fact that we need him as an available arm right now is scary.  Of the Big 3 only Doolittle has looked the part this year.  Hopefully Max and Stras can go long this weekend and give some of these guys an extended rest.

Scherzer v Kershaw Friday night.  Put on a pot of coffee or set your DVR.

I was unhappy Madson was left in so long. At his age (though I know he doesn't feel it) three games in a row and 4 out of 5 is an awful lot, and once they started to get to him, he should have been out of there.

It also ticked me off that they sent Gott down, since he's still got an option, when he's been pitching quite well.  He deserved to stay. I understand they don't want to lose the people with no options left, but Cole hasn't made e real strong case for staying. They finally cut the cord on Romero and he may do well in Pittsburgh, along with the Nats' former closer formerly known as Felipe Rivero. Maybe Cole would do better in an another system.

Maybe Gott will come back later to spell someone and will provide a boost later in the season.

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19 minutes ago, Pat said:

Maybe Gott will come back later to spell someone and will provide a boost later in the season.

I have no doubt we'll see Gott again, maybe sooner rather than later.  They were already carrying an extra bullpen arm, and if the workhorses settle down into a routine we may get a bench player back.  Koda Glover will be available some time in the back half of the season.  If they are in contention at the end of July I don't see how they can't trade for another middle innings eater unless a rookie rises to the occasion.

I miss Matt Albers.

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I miss Matt Albers too, though it looks like he might be off to a slow start this season (or, small sample size). What I don't get is why they finally DFA'd Cole and brought up someone named Carlos Torres from Syracuse who is 35 years old. Our bullpen skews old to begin with. This baffles me. Pitchers arms age faster now because of how young they start throwing hard and very often. 

Bryan Harper, BTW, has a 0.00 ERA through 6.1 innings with the Senators. They sent him all the way to AA, presumably because he's still rehabbing from TJ surgery.  He looked pretty good in ST, especially for someone who hadn't pitched in games for a year and a half.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Pat said:

What I don't get is why they finally DFA'd Cole and brought up someone named Carlos Torres from Syracuse who is 35 years old.

I absolutely get why they sent Cole down!  I thought they would wait until a more established arm was ready, but when you're replacing cannon fodder at this point the worst you can hope for is .... more cannon fodder.

Twitter fact of the day: tonight is only the tenth time ever that two three-time Cy Young winners are facing off against each other.

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20 minutes ago, TedE said:

I absolutely get why they sent Cole down!  I thought they would wait until a more established arm was ready, but when you're replacing cannon fodder at this point the worst you can hope for is .... more cannon fodder.

Twitter fact of the day: tonight is only the tenth time ever that two three-time Cy Young winners are facing off against each other.

Oh, I totally understand why they DFA'd Cole. That needed to happen. But bringing up the guy they signed March 30 who is 35 years old, that I'm questioning.

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14 hours ago, Pat said:

And Cole has now been traded to the Yankees for "cash considerations." Probably not enough cash to re-sign Bryce^_^ but better than nothing.

It was probably an amount that the Yankees found digging around in the couch cushions of their luxury suites.

Another dog of a series against a beatable team, hopefully Max can salvage something this afternoon (I mean, after all he is leading the currently active Nats in batting average this year 😂 ).  There's not firing on all cylinders, and then there's mis-firing on all cylinders.  Nothing seems to be clicking on offense for a squad that should be producing more runs.  I hope (HOPE) that once two of Eaton/Rendon/Murphy come back we'll see that.

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55 minutes ago, TedE said:

Another dog of a series against a beatable team, hopefully Max can salvage something this afternoon (I mean, after all he is leading the currently active Nats in batting average this year 😂 ).  

For the record, the leading batting average is held by Kendrick (.277), which is pathetic for a team of this caliber.

Harper is at .257

Turner .232

Taylor .220

Zimmerman .188

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21 minutes ago, Al Dente said:

For the record, the leading batting average is held by Kendrick (.277), which is pathetic for a team of this caliber.

Offense is down all over the league so far, most likely a function of the cold weather.  The Nats are 8th out of 15 NL teams in OPS, which correlates better with runs scored than batting average.  For reference though, NL teams in the aggregate have a batting average of .238 so it's all relative.  My guess is that the Nats will be fine eventually.

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All you need to do is give a couple of starters an extra rest day, get a career day out of one of your young replacements, score almost ALL of your 15 runs with 2 outs and have a 3x CY winner on the mound.  DUH!  Baseball is such a simple game.

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