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Taking Pictures In Restaurants


Jacques Gastreaux

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Having been out of the office last week, I'm just catching up on this whole thing today. Quite a lot has certainly been said on the matter except for one thing. It seems pretty clear that DCFoodie has handled himself remarkably well through this whole debacle. He was treated very poorly by Greenwood but seems to have handled the whole thing with a great deal of grace. If this had happened to me, I would have been furious, ready to fight and would have used my blog (thankfully, I have no interest in having a blog) for payback. Kudos, Jason.

PS - In general, amateur pictures posted online of meals don't do much for me. Although I believe that people should be able to post them.

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Is this destined to become the next D.C. bloodsport?  Taunt the finicky restauranteur until they snap?

Part of me laughed out loud at the Wash'n unhidden camera journalism, the other part of me said, "Man, that was a cheap shot".

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While reading that column, I was waiting for mention of an adult man wearing a bear suit. Yes, you read that right. When my date and I were at Buck's on Saturday, such a man did make an appearance in the dining room and I thought to myself "stunt? trying to rile up Chef Greenwood?" I never did find out what the bear suit was all about...

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I can't believe I've read the whole thing. Never take vacation the first week in January.

CHEF Carole Greenwood is tremendously talented and a PR nightmare. I absolutley feel horrible for her employees. Mr. Alefantis is in the worst possible position, trying to apologize to customers for her zany behavior while financial bound to her lunatic "cooking artistry".

The Washingtonian bit was hysterical, but was unneccessary piling on, IMHO.

Now, off to the Gerard Pangaud and breastfeeding threads.

Edited by B.A.R.
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The Washingtonian bit was hysterical, but was unneccessary piling on, IMHO.

In the context of this thread it might seem like piling on, but I don't think that the vast majority of Washingtonian readers are members of this board so they would not have any exposure to this incident, or of Ms. Greenwood’s ego.
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Well, it's shitty Sprint making money and someone's drunken finger pushing a button...

I actually have no problem with cameras, I'm just tired of Hello Kitty cellphones everywhere.

I'm an angry bear.

Pandas don't get angry...

and I want a hello kitty cellphone...

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My diagnosis of the whole rigamarole:

Wholly ridiculous reaction of a control freak, defined as "she who wants to control the uncontrollable."

P.S: Want a hello kitty cellphone, just ask me for permission to use my avatar as your cellphone wallpaper.

It would be more like:

"Hell-oh", drawled little kitty, squinting her little kitty eyes over gun.

Very truly up yours,

Edited by Nadya
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This recent DCist posting made me remember this debate & is a perfect example of why some restaurateurs might be wary of amateur photographers publishing photos of their food. The review is flattering, but the photo? Not so much.
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This recent DCist posting made me remember this debate & is a perfect example of why some restaurateurs might be wary of amateur photographers publishing photos of their food.  The review is flattering, but the photo?  Not so much.

Where is the art director? Jeeze!

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This recent DCist posting made me remember this debate & is a perfect example of why some restaurateurs might be wary of amateur photographers publishing photos of their food.  The review is flattering, but the photo?  Not so much.

Looks like the aftermath of a particularly egregious accident involving tomato sauce and a 10 lb sledge hammer.
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We had an amzing pizza at Grimaldi's in Brooklyn. When asked if we could take a picture of the guys *making* the pizza, we were told that was a no-no. Picture of pizza on table right before we consumed it was OK with them though.

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We had an amzing pizza at Grimaldi's in Brooklyn. When asked if we could take a picture of the guys *making* the pizza, we were told that was a no-no. Picture of pizza on table right before we consumed it was OK with them though.
In your own place, you ought to be able to control the behavior of your customers as it pertains to your other customers, staff, etc. I don't let people take pictures without prior consent of management. Not because I don't want people taking pictures (I DO want them to), I don't want LOONIES taking pictures. It wouldn't kill you to ask first (not that anyone does), because you may have overlooked the sign that says 'no pictures' (I had a guy trash the sign, and then innocently say, 'What sign?') I encourage people to take pictures of their celebrations, friends, birthday cake, etc., but I like to control the pictures taken of the musicians (they have their own PR people, and I do my own PR) and my staff. There are a lot of freaks out there, and I don't want my staff's pictures out there. It's also very distracting to other customers, especially when guys are taking pictures of women they don't know, or when someone's taking like a hundred pictures. Of course, if someone wants to take a picture of my tapas, they can go right ahead cause every one comes out perfectly.
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On "The Intrepid Traveller" there is a post of mine Don entitled "Eastern Italy on the Adriatic Sea." It is an essay of sorts which I took some time to write (with another title) because I was seriously impressed with the truly unique restaurant that I had found. I had a small digital camera with me and wanted to take a number of photos of the restaurant, the food, the seafood tanks, the open kitchen area. We were, to the best of my knowledge, the only Americans in the restaurant. With the first several photos there was a flash. Diners on both sides of me immediately looked over with the flashes.

After two shots I stopped. I did not want to interfere with anyone else's dinner. The thought also occurred to me that this was a place where photojournalism was still a multisyllabic word and not a practice.

After the dinner I asked the waiter if I could take several very quick, hopefully non intrusive photos. He said yes. It seemed like the proper approach. Still, I had wanted to take photos of each of the 11 or 12 dishes we were served as I have in other restaurants. I was disappointed that I was not able to but this really did not seem like the place. All the more disappointing since it is 150 miles off of my "beaten path." But I do think I did the right thing even though I really wish I had more photos to show of what was one of the most incredible experiences of any restaurant I have ever been to.

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But I do think I did the right thing even though I really wish I had more photos to show of what was one of the most incredible experiences of any restaurant I have ever been to.
I guess I never really got the picture craze. I love photography and I love eating out I just never put the two together. It always seemed to me like the people taking snapshots of statues or paintings in a gallery. It so inadequately conveys the experience. I prefer the sepia toned, soft lens snapshot in my memory. Sounds smells tastes and texture all get lost on a computer screen or 4X6 piece of photo paper. More to the point though I always get kind of wrapped up in dinner anyways and never wanted to "take myself out of the moment" to get a camera and take pictures. Please don't yell at me. I know many of you like to take pictures and I think that is awesome, it just was never my thing. Ironically I was president of the Photography club, and photo editor of the yearbook in HS and ran a dark room all through college. You'd think I would be posting like 30 pictures a meal on this board...
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I actually agree with you. In fact I've often felt that my taking photos would distract myself from the overall meal. Still, there have been a number of times over the years that I've wanted photos to attempt to recapture at least part of the experience. For me, this has as much to do with the unique, perhaps extraordinary personality of the restaurant as it does with anything else. The "Italian Crab House" I wrote about above is one of these. Another (where I did not have a camera and wish that I had) is a Michelin starred 2,000 year old Roman furnace on the Ligurian coast of Italy. It was an absolutely incredible experience-to this day the most unique of any that I have ever had. No photos, no website just a few words that I once wrote about it:

"Last week my wife and I completed one of the more interesting weeks of binging in Italy that we have yet enjoyed. From Baldin, a wonderful restaurant in Genoa, to Garga, an overpriced and disappointing Saveur cover in Florence (with a great pasta dish however) to what may be the most unique restaurant that I have ever been to: La Fornace di Barbablu, 30 miles west of Genoa. In between we had stops at Badiani for gelato in Florence, very good pizza at Il Pizzaiola (adjacent to Cibreo) a disappointing meal at Omero and a good but not spectacular dinner at Parione.

The lime that was used to build part of the Coliseum in Rome was supplied in part by this furnace. Two thousand years later, in 1992, the furnace underwent an unprecedented renovation and became home to what today is a Michelin starred restaurant featuring some of the best food in Liguria. Yet it is not the food which makes this an extraordinary experience. Built into the side of a hill the former lime furnace has stone and brick walls, stone floors and beamed ceilings which in places are only five feet above the floor. Three levels have been carved out of it along with what must be the most incredible wine cellar in the world with a table centered squarely in the middle of the converted quarry's "basement." With subdued lighting, candles and fireplaces La Fornace is also one of the most romantic restaurants that I have ever been in. Certainly it is the greatest adventure of any that I have tried to find.

Our waiter, who spoke adequate English, mentioned that he had taken five years of the language and had hoped to be able to practice it with the many American and English guests that he expected to meet at the restaurant. In the two years he had been there he noted that we were only one of a handful of English speaking people he had ever seen there. His guess was that no one could find it since even those from Genoa had a difficult time.

Still, this is a great experience, certainly one of the most unique anywhere. Michelin has discovered it and we did too. For anyone on this board who loves superb Ligurian food as well as the adventure of seeking out one of the world's most unusual yet romantic restaurants this is worth the journey and the investment in time to locate it."

If only I had some photos!

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I guess I never really got the picture craze. I love photography and I love eating out I just never put the two together. It always seemed to me like the people taking snapshots of statues or paintings in a gallery. It so inadequately conveys the experience. I prefer the sepia toned, soft lens snapshot in my memory. Sounds smells tastes and texture all get lost on a computer screen or 4X6 piece of photo paper. More to the point though I always get kind of wrapped up in dinner anyways and never wanted to "take myself out of the moment" to get a camera and take pictures. Please don't yell at me. I know many of you like to take pictures and I think that is awesome, it just was never my thing. Ironically I was president of the Photography club, and photo editor of the yearbook in HS and ran a dark room all through college. You'd think I would be posting like 30 pictures a meal on this board...

My sentiments exactly. I never really got the desire to take pics of dish after dish at meals. One exception: when I travel. We always put together online photo journals of trips for our friends and family. Since we're trying to let our friends share our trips through the lenses of our cameras we will obviously include pictures of meals or restaurants, usually just representative pictures trying to convey the cuisine or settings. Food stalls or shops on the other hand I'm fairly obsessed with and will snap away; I think I took 200 pictures of the Tsukiji Fish Market in one morning. A working market is an incredibly interesting place place to photograph for me. I also don't feel bad hauling around the DSLR and getting close to the subject; doing that in a restaurant is pretty food-geeky even for me (although I have been known to do it, sans flash). It's also a bit distracting for other guests. I prefer a quick shot with a compact camera even in cases where I really wish I could pull out the big guns for visual impact.

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I think I just solved my problem and my inhibition for taking photos in restaurants, at least from the perspective of disturbing neighbors. I bought a Sony DSC-T 50 which is a new camera with 7.2 megapixels, motion stabilizer and most important, an ISO that is high enough to allow me take photos indoors without a flash. In combination with the first two I should be able to now indulge my passion for "food porn" with a higher quality of photo. I should also not have a problem with those sitting next to me. Only the chef who doesn't like to have photos taken of his/her food!

If I had only had this in Italy!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Joe,

I read this yesterday and meant to reply. It sounds like you got a good camera for the job. I use a Konica Minolta DSLR for the job. With a fast lens, image stabilization, no flash, and high ISO, I can have a picture of a dish quickly and unobtrusively. I can get pictures in dim restaurants down to 1/10 of a second sometimes. Only problem is occasionally missing the focus and not having enough depth of field to compensate. That, and of course I'm carrying around a big honking camera. A smaller sensor will have less of a problem with depth of field, and a smaller cam will be easily pocketable. Good luck with it, and post us some pics to see how it works out.

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Joe,

I read this yesterday and meant to reply. It sounds like you got a good camera for the job. I use a Konica Minolta DSLR for the job. With a fast lens, image stabilization, no flash, and high ISO, I can have a picture of a dish quickly and unobtrusively. I can get pictures in dim restaurants down to 1/10 of a second sometimes. Only problem is occasionally missing the focus and not having enough depth of field to compensate. That, and of course I'm carrying around a big honking camera. A smaller sensor will have less of a problem with depth of field, and a smaller cam will be easily pocketable. Good luck with it, and post us some pics to see how it works out.

Thanks, really appreciate your thoughts. I'm only grudgingly adapting to digital cameras since I was (formerly) really into photography with an Olympus OM 4N and a half dozen lenses. Of course something like this in a restaurant would be an outrage with a flash unit (!) so recently I've used my wife's 5 megapixel (no image stabilization and an ISO so high that a flash is always necessary) camera a few times and found that 1/3 to 1/2 of the photos do not turn out. Now, I'm really looking forward to what I can do with the new camera.

I aspire to be a leader in "food porn" and will be happy to post my initial primitive efforts!

By the way, Barbara, the picture of the risotto on your blog looks like you absolutely nailed the texture! Congratulations! I sort of acquired a "reputation" for one of my own risottos because of a post on CH several years ago: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/28891...a+dolce+risotto Your's looks absolutely delicious! Whether it was your first effort or fifty first effort it looks like you did an absolutely perfect job.

Edited by Joe H
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Adam Roberts cites Jason's incident at Buck's on Serious Eats in this essay yesterday. Its an interesting piece, but I'm not entirely convinced that food blogging democratizes more expensive dining experiences. Some responsibility resides with a savvy diner, who can take control of a less than great dining experience by addressing problems with the server or management before writing something like, "Only a jerk would eat at Le Cirque." (Though I'll recognize that his critique of the place is not as inflammatory as the heading.)

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Generally speaking, I have taken pictures of food at restaurants almost everywhere. From top end restaurants to total dive joints and carts. I rarely have a problem doing so. I try to be unobtrusive in doing so so as to not bug any of the staff or diners. So far, no worries. Upon rare occasion when I want to take a picture of something in the place other than food, say of the staff preparing the food or the space, I always ask and abide by the wishes of the folks who give me the yes or no. That said, I do sometimes get some odd looks from folks, I guess because why would anyone want/need to take a picture of their food? :lol:

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Alinea's forum where Grant goes slightly off on diners. I saw this originally on CH.

A month ago a front of the house team member served the Hot Potato –Cold Potato to a blogger that was taking photos with a camera resting on a tripod. The server did their normal spiel, telling the guest the dish was intended to be consumed right away so the sensation of temperature contrast could be experienced. Instead they took a few minutes to move the course around on the table to find the right light, snapped several images, and then undoubtedly enjoyed….Warm Potato –Warm Potato. Not to mention the time that is added to the experience. Three extra minutes to take a photo is not much, but if you are eating 30 courses, you just added an hour and a half to your dinner.

And what about the people in the restaurant that are there to –- eat? Or enjoy an evening out with a significant other, or even having a business dinner? Often we have guest request to move tables in the restaurant because they feel the sound of the shutter, the light produced by the auto focus assist, or the person’s actions are ruining their own experience.

But recently the trend has been to video myself or the front of the house team. This is where I feel the documentation crosses the line. Now that I spend a good amount of time in the dining room with the table-plating concept we are doing guests will often stick the camera in my face as I walk up to the table. I never say no to guests when they ask to take a photo with me, but I always suggest we do it in the kitchen after their meal is finished. This is happening with the servers as well. Voice recorders are being held in front of them while they describe a course or a wine, or video is shot. It is uncomfortable… and frankly rude to do so without asking. This activity seems strange to me, I can’t imagine how celebrities feel. No wonder they punch the paparazzi out when they get the chance.

pga_a_camera_300.jpg

Stevie Williams in action.

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Of course, that was before chefs invented the “no photography” rule, which Monis has since instituted much to my disappointment. It wasn’t without a very long pause that I decided to eat at komi, despite this ridiculousness.

Why is it ridiculous? There's no doubt that flash photography is annoying to others. I've never taken a pic at Komi and as long as that's their policy, I won't.

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I agree, flash is annoying and obnoxious. I don't use flash.

Edited to add: Ever.

I'd like to hear why you think it's ridiculous to have a no photo policy. And if you don't use flash, how's your photo going to turn out at Komi? Did you bring a tripod?

ETA: I'm no photo expert but I kind of understand the concept between lighting and shutter speed. I do take photos when I'm at a chef's table - away from other diners.

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There's a thread in News and Media. I'd like to hear why you think it's ridiculous to have a no photo policy. And if you don't use flash, how's your photo going to turn out at Komi? Did you bring a tripod?

You can read my thoughts HERE.

No, no tripod. If you have the right kind of camera and lens, you can easily take a photo inside komi with no flash or tripod. You just have to have very still hands. If you go on my flickr, many of the photos I have taken in restaurants have been under lighting conditions similar, if not worse than komi. If you saw my photo of the outside of komi, I can assure you that the lighting outside on the sidewalk at 9 p.m. was just as dark, if not darker than inside the restaurant.

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much like the uproar against end zone celebrations, the phrase which comes to mind to me is "act like you've been there before."

Maybe chefs will start photo'ing every dish they make and uploading them to your bberry when you dine there, then we don't have to worry about this any more?

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much like the uproar against end zone celebrations, the phrase which comes to mind to me is "act like you've been their before."

Maybe chefs will start photo'ing every dish they make and uploading them to your bberry when you dine there, then we don't have to worry about this any more?

Yes, Tom Colicchio tried/did this very thing with his short-lived concept, Tom's Tuesday Dinner. He didn't upload them to pdas, but photos of the week's menu was available online.

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No, no tripod. If you have the right kind of camera and lens, you can easily take a photo inside komi with no flash or tripod. You just have to have very still hands. If you go on my flickr, many of the photos I have taken in restaurants have been under lighting conditions similar, if not worse than komi. If you saw my photo of the outside of komi, I can assure you that the lighting outside on the sidewalk at 9 p.m. was just as dark, if not darker than inside the restaurant.

That's pretty serious skill. I wish I can be that steady with my hands. Maybe you can apply for an exemption. Good luck. :lol:

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Here is a slightly edited version of my blog post. Since you all know komi, I cut out a lot of the details that you all probably know.

*********************

It amazes me that Johnny Monis, ex-McCrady’s opened the restaurant at the age of 24 in 2005. (It amazes me when anyone does anything at 24.) It went on my list almost immediately.

Of course, that was before chefs invented the “no photography” rule, which Monis has since instituted much to my disappointment. It wasn’t without a very long pause that I decided to eat at komi, despite this ridiculousness.

Ridiculous? This is one of the best things that I have heard. Having to take pictures of every course is ridiculous.

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I skip posts with endless pictures of each course. Unless the plating is absolutely innovative and fascinating, I would rather read the description and build a picture in my head. They take forever to load on a board like this or on someone's blog, and cruising Flickr accounts for amateur food pics doesn't compel me. Surely I'm not the only one?

As a diner, unless I'm sitting at the bar I won't even snap a picture with my phone, never mind whip out a camera.

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Alinea's forum where Grant goes slightly off on diners. I saw this originally on CH.

A blogger and a photographer, I must say that the kind of food bloggers/photographers that Mr. Achatz describes are the bad apples in the cart that ruin it for the rest of who don't use a flash, tripod, or any other equipment. I just have two hands, a camera and a lens. I take a couple of photos. I put the camera away. I eat. I enjoy.

The brand of ridiculousness that Mr. Achatz describes, I object to. It is repugnant. And it's silly. I've even seen people with over-powered zoom lenses standing on their chairs (!) to get a shot. What a circus. Too bad.

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A blogger and a photographer, I must say that the kind of food bloggers/photographers that Mr. Achatz describes are the bad apples in the cart that ruin it for the rest of who don't use a flash, tripod, or any other equipment. I just have two hands, a camera and a lens. I take a couple of photos. I put the camera away. I eat. I enjoy.

The brand of ridiculousness that Mr. Achatz describes, I object to. It is repugnant. And it's silly. I've even seen people with over-powered zoom lenses standing on their chairs (!) to get a shot. What a circus. Too bad.

And now the L.A. Times weighs in; a healthy discussion.

Yet few chefs have banned such photography. A sluggish economy has made them wary of alienating customers. They also know the photos help generate free publicity, as does a positive buzz on social media networks.

Sometimes, chefs reason, it's better to try to embrace the shutterbugs.

Lefebvre, for one, is grateful. The food paparazzi have let his wife, Krissy, use their pictures for free for marketing purposes. The online buzz helped him quickly sell out every reservation for his latest endeavor -- a restaurant that will be open only for seven weeks.

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