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The Dearth of Restaurant Delivery East of The Anacostia River in DC


Ericandblueboy

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D.C. has never had more food delivery options. Unless you live across the Anacostia River, by Tim Carman on washingtonpost.com

What's the point of the article?  Is it to point out a lot of people moved to cheaper neighborhoods without investigating their delivery options first?  Is it implying that food delivery companies discriminate against certain neighborhoods  (if so, based on what?)?  Is it stating the obvious that food delivery companies don't deliver to areas with little demand or perceived high crime rate? 

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Uber Eats seems to have a presence there. Just when you want to again hate Uber they go out and outperform ... 

And hell yeah, they discriminate against outer NE and SE across the river. Just like it was pre-ride share when you couldn't get a taxi to pick you up or drop you off. I was living on this side of the river in Capitol Hill East and I'd have to lie about my address to get a ride (one night we waited for an hour and couldn't get a taxi - ended up paying a Domino's Pizza delivery guy $40 to take us to H St ... ah, the good ol' days). They obviously have demand if UberEats goes there. They chase demand. It's like their whole concept. 

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35 minutes ago, Ericandblueboy said:

D.C. has never had more food delivery options. Unless you live across the Anacostia River, by Tim Carman.

What's the point of the article?  Is it to point out a lot of people moved to cheaper neighborhoods without investigating their delivery options first?  Is it implying that food delivery companies discriminate against certain neighborhoods  (if so, based on what?)?  Is it stating the obvious that food delivery companies don't deliver to areas with little demand or perceived high crime rate? 

Quote

Is it to point out that a lot of people moved to cheaper neighborhoods without investigating their delivery options first? 

 

That makes me laugh.   While I've been involved with the DC barschool for decades I went hands on almost 20 years ago.  Much of the customer/student base comes from those neighborhoods and many of the leads come from those neighborhoods.  I've met folks from those areas far far more frequently than I ever had before.

I can guarantee you that folks, (primarily African American or Black) who don't have much income, don't have high paying jobs, and often struggle financially don't give a whit about delivery food options.  That is the last thing they might think about.  They do care that taxis or uber or other driver sources might not pick up and deliver there and of course they are concerned about high crime rates or violence.   They live in those areas because they are affordable, remarkably affordable versus other areas in the region.  (the same goes for inside the beltway areas in Prince Georges County).

Of course its both discriminatory and its a concern from the driving companies about high crime rates and violence.  Its all issues.  It always has been.  Its only that the issue has expanded to the "food delivery topic". The general concern is old and it reflects discrimination, lack of demand, and perceived or actual high crime rates.  Nothing has changed in that regard.  It merely expands the coverage of the overall issue to food delivery.

Lots of folks are concerned about it.  That includes plenty of folks who don't live in those areas but see it as a problem along with all those who face these issues first hand.

Nothing wrong with the story.

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Without the written etiquette befitting of the zoo’s ape house, the article exposes Washingtonians and the general public to the dearth of otherwise common services delivering “shit” (e.g., foodstuffs and sundries) outside the spoiled bubble of the city with the highest number of establishments per capita in the US peddling such “shit” (0.4 per 100).

The idea of one’s home being blacklisted from delivery in the capital of the wealthiest country in the world in the 21st century is no less newsworthy than other 1st world injustices like price of limes or preponderance of unreasonable pumpkin flavorings (if you don’t count the struggles of minorities in advanced countries to be served in the same capacity as the whites).

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14 hours ago, Poivrot Farci said:

Without the written etiquette befitting of the zoo’s ape house, the article exposes Washingtonians and the general public to the dearth of otherwise common services delivering “shit” (e.g., foodstuffs and sundries) outside the spoiled bubble of the city with the highest number of establishments per capita in the US peddling such “shit” (0.4 per 100).

The idea of one’s home being blacklisted from delivery in the capital of the wealthiest country in the world in the 21st century is no less newsworthy than other 1st world injustices like price of limes or preponderance of unreasonable pumpkin flavorings (if you don’t count the struggles of minorities in advanced countries to be served in the same capacity as the whites).

At times I'm thrown by your writing style and (I assume) sarcasm.  This is one of those cases.

On a somewhat longer view, and one that simply sees this lack of service as one of many innumerable differences or deficiencies between how people in less affluent and possible more crime ridden neighborhoods are treated and face life, the overall societal response to poorer inner city and close in mostly Black neighborhoods is an issue that has plagued the US for decades and decades.  Its not just the US.  These inner city inequities plague cities around the globe.  It is often connected to some perceived or actual elements of racism.

Cripes I first saw this "stuff" in 1967 every day for about 2 or 3 weeks in Newark NJ.  Those were the first two weeks of July of '67 before the riots in Newark.  Within the first 2 sentences of that article it references 159 urban riots in the US that Summer.  In the following year there were the urban riots in DC and many other cities  The graphic in the DC reference is stunning  when you consider the location of so many popular DC restaurants that currently thrive and are well known restaurant destination hubs in the city.

But these issues specific to urban areas in the US had long preceded when I first glanced at it.  It moved me.  While in college I studied these issues and worked in that environment as part of the "so called solution".  The "solution" I worked on, didn't solve anything at least not in the 2 years I worked on it and decades later one can look at problems in the urban area I worked in and question the effort and changes.  Solid change is extremely difficult. 

As the article in the OP describes the issue with food delivery is that it adds to the indignities that folks in these neighborhoods face.  This is not unique to DC or even the US.  Visit the poorer neighborhoods in cities around the world and read the news.  It is part of the human condition (or so it seems).  

I'm not trying to be the problem solver or take political sides.  Not having easy access to 100 restaurants is not the worst indignity folks in these neighborhoods but its not a positive either.  The article was enlightening with research on who was and wasn't delivering in these areas plus crime statistics that I found surprising. 

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On April 3, 2018 at 4:08 PM, arlingtonkabob said:

What I want to know is how does the Blanca Gamaz go from living in Dupont Circle/Friendship Heights to Benning Road?!

Depending on where we are talking about on Benning, that intersects with H St. NE. It's a gentrifying area. People who are used to being able to get services in other areas of the city are getting surprised when moving into areas that are gentrifying and finding they can't get those services there.

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1 hour ago, Pat said:

People who are used to being able to get services in other areas of the city are getting surprised when moving into areas that are gentrifying and finding they can't get those services there.

That's why this is suddenly news.

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“The various bridges are an operational challenge, particularly with traffic, which is why, for example, we currently don’t allow Northern Virginia customers to order from D.C. and vice versa across the Potomac River,” a spokeswoman wrote via email. “A similar operational challenge exists for Wards 7 and 8 across the Anacostia River.” DoorDash added service in Ward 7 on March 28."

Why was this paragraph minimized? I live in Arlington, VA, but cannot get DC restaurants to deliver "across the river" to me, even though I live about five minutes from the city, ten minutes from The Wharf, and fifteen minutes from Barracks Row, The Yards, and Nationals Park. Any possible explanations?

Sure, I can get Virginia restaurants to deliver, but none that I know of in DC - perhaps the real problem lies with the paucity of restaurants east of the Anacostia River? Remember when Michael Landrum opened Rays: The Steaks at East River in 2010? Remember when both Ray's and MOM's Organic market closed in 2012?

Do any restaurants east of the Anacostia who deliver, *not* deliver to residences east of the Anacostia? This would be a much more compelling and damning piece of information, if true - I've heard no information about it, one way or the other. 

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19 hours ago, DonRocks said:

I live in Arlington, VA, but cannot get DC restaurants to deliver "across the river" to me, even though I live about five minutes from the city, ten minutes from The Wharf, and fifteen minutes from Barracks Row, The Yards, and Nationals Park. Any possible explanations?

Traffic. I live in Arlington too and my 10 minute drive from Connecticut and K to Exit 71 of I-66 can take 40.

So...what's your favorite delivery? I need new Thai and my kids want Pho delivery for some reason. (and I'm getting worse and worse about shopping for food)

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1 hour ago, NolaCaine said:

Oh, I don't go there...

395 says it runs north-south but feels more east-west...makes me uncomfortable.

(edited to say, I'm joking in case humor doesn't translate)

The problem is that both interstates go into Arlington, Fairfax, *and* Prince William County (click on each to see the graphic), leading people to believe they run parallel; in reality, they run at a 45-degree angle coming out of the city, spreading to a nearly 90-degree angle as they progress:

Screenshot 2018-04-10 at 00.28.32.png

Interesting piece of trivia, isn't it? In full disclosure, I-395 turns into I-95 at I-495 - I-395 is the segment that runs from the DC Border to the Beltway, so technically, it doesn't run through Prince William County, but that's a technicality as far as this discussion goes.

Also another: Arlington County is the smallest self-governing county in the United States of America (26 square miles) - overlay it with San Bernardino County, CA (20,105 square miles - nearly 1,000-times larger!), and with perhaps a couple of exceptions, you have the smallest and largest counties in the continental US.

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As a former resident of Ward 7, and ANC commissioner, I'm probably the most qualified to speak to this thread. First, there is a definite problem with a lack of restaurants east of the river. There was actual excitement when Denny's opened near the corner of Benning and East Capitol.  The only restaurant we ever went to in our own neighborhood was Rosebud's BBQ just across Eastern Ave in Cap Heights. Things are worse now that I heard the Seat Pleasant Safeway closed. It truly is a food desert.

That said, even though we lived at the easternmost corner of DC, where Central Ave crosses over into MD, we could be on H St or Capitol Hill in 15 minutes, or less. Neighborhood dining for us was Granville Moore's and Argonaut on H St. The bridges do not pose any barrier to traffic and crossing the Anacostia is not the same as crossing the Potomac into Virginia, plus there is no change in jurisdiction. Does Rock Creek Park pose a similar barrier to deliveries within the District? I think that would be the better comparison.

True there may be less demand for delivery EOTR, but for delivery service, it doesn't matter if there is less demand for whether the service is offered. There is no additional investment required to provide delivery service EOTR. Same vehicles and drivers are used, it's just adding another area they have to go to. It's just that right now the delivery services choose NOT to serve these areas.

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10 hours ago, dinoue said:

As a former resident of Ward 7, and ANC commissioner, I'm probably the most qualified to speak to this thread. First, there is a definite problem with a lack of restaurants east of the river. There was actual excitement when Denny's opened near the corner of Benning and East Capitol.  The only restaurant we ever went to in our own neighborhood was Rosebud's BBQ just across Eastern Ave in Cap Heights. Things are worse now that I heard the Seat Pleasant Safeway closed. It truly is a food desert.

That said, even though we lived at the easternmost corner of DC, where Central Ave crosses over into MD, we could be on H St or Capitol Hill in 15 minutes, or less. Neighborhood dining for us was Granville Moore's and Argonaut on H St. The bridges do not pose any barrier to traffic and crossing the Anacostia is not the same as crossing the Potomac into Virginia, plus there is no change in jurisdiction. Does Rock Creek Park pose a similar barrier to deliveries within the District? I think that would be the better comparison.

True there may be less demand for delivery EOTR, but for delivery service, it doesn't matter if there is less demand for whether the service is offered. There is no additional investment required to provide delivery service EOTR. Same vehicles and drivers are used, it's just adding another area they have to go to. It's just that right now the delivery services choose NOT to serve these areas.

Thanks for this well-informed post, dinoue. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I have a question: Can you speculate *why* the delivery services choose not to deliver there? And when I say "the delivery services," do I mean all of them? One or two? 

The obvious answer is the unspoken answer, but is it the correct answer?

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When I delivered for Pizza Hut and other joints in Atlanta in college (30 years ago!), the usual delivery radius is 3 miles.  A good run is 3 stops all within the same vicinity, where customers tip.  If you can't get a bunch of deliveries to the same place at the same time where customers tip, you won't find willing drivers.  When I delivered, I was paid minimum wage and 50 cents gas reimbursement per delivery, so volume and tips are both important to support a delivery business location. 

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On 4/8/2018 at 9:33 PM, DonRocks said:

I live in Arlington, VA, but cannot get DC restaurants to deliver "across the river" to me, even though I live about five minutes from the city, ten minutes from The Wharf, and fifteen minutes from Barracks Row, The Yards, and Nationals Park. Any possible explanations?

Restaurants tend to limit the distance not only to improve delivery times but more so because it is a liability. In cases of an accident, both the driver and business is held liable. If a business expands their driving distances to populated areas where accidents are more frequent or other states (DC/MD no matter how close you are to those state lines) you open the doors to greater risk of accident. Shall that happen the insurance premium for a business owner goes up.

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21 hours ago, DonRocks said:

Thanks for this well-informed post, dinoue. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I have a question: Can you speculate *why* the delivery services choose not to deliver there? And when I say "the delivery services," do I mean all of them? One or two? 

The obvious answer is the unspoken answer, but is it the correct answer?

Honestly, I can't speak for the decsionmakers. I'm sure stereotypes play a role whether it be the perceived lack of interest, not wanting to serve because they think tips won't be good, or the market just hasn't reached critical mass of white gentrification yet to make the "business model" work.

The thing with at least some of the delivery services, is that they charge delivery fees based on distance, so I would think that it shouldn't matter how far the delivery is.

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On 4/10/2018 at 9:51 AM, Ericandblueboy said:

When I delivered for Pizza Hut and other joints in Atlanta in college (30 years ago!), the usual delivery radius is 3 miles.  A good run is 3 stops all within the same vicinity, where customers tip.  If you can't get a bunch of deliveries to the same place at the same time where customers tip, you won't find willing drivers.  When I delivered, I was paid minimum wage and 50 cents gas reimbursement per delivery, so volume and tips are both important to support a delivery business location. 

Pizza Hut...5 years. I did everything but drive at a delivery unit. I learned a lot...most lessons I really didn't need.

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17 hours ago, Pool Boy said:

I am sure there are serious food deserts everywhere and it is pathetic and awful that some exist in the Washington DC metro region.

That said - I am not one of those people that orders food to be delivered. Ever.

Mostly so am I.  Yet it is used at an enormous rate now say compared to five, ten, and ever more so many more years than in the past.

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5 hours ago, DaveO said:

Mostly so am I.  Yet it is used at an enormous rate now say compared to five, ten, and ever more so many more years than in the past.

Oh I am sure. People are busy and want convenience. I just find most delivery options take too long, and are not up to what I prefer to eat and like. For example, I am sure I could get the big 3 pizza places to deliver to my house, but the mere thought of those pizzas makes me want to hurl. I get 90% of my pizzas I eat for at home at Pasta Plus, a couple of miles from my house. It is more expensive, and less convenient, but they make a pretty good pizza and it is far superior to any delivery place. I do wish a really excellent pizza place would open in the Greenbelt/Beltsville/College Park/Laurel that was exceptional and only slightly out of my commute hime. For now, that is Pasta Plus.

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1 hour ago, MarkS said:

How does 3 Brothers pizza stack up.  They are in Laurel? I've never eaten there but have heard its reasonable and crowded.

Wow, Three Brothers - that's a blast from the past for me: I used to occasionally get a slice from Beltway Plaza Mall in Greenbelt before catching a movie at the AMC Academy 8 (is this ringing a bell with anyone?)

To answer your question, I'd say their food is about how it looks on their website:

Screenshot 2018-04-12 at 10.08.58.png

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2 minutes ago, DonRocks said:

Wow, Three Brothers - that's a blast from the past for me: I used to occasionally get a slice from Beltway Plaza Mall in Greenbelt before catching a movie at the AMC Academy 8 (is this ringing a bell with anyone?)

To answer your question, I'd say their food is about how it looks on their website:

Screenshot 2018-04-12 at 10.08.58.png

My eruption of laughter just  caused a ruckus in the office.

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3 hours ago, DonRocks said:

Wow, Three Brothers - that's a blast from the past for me: I used to occasionally get a slice from Beltway Plaza Mall in Greenbelt before catching a movie at the AMC Academy 8 (is this ringing a bell with anyone?)

To answer your question, I'd say their food is about how it looks on their website:

Screenshot 2018-04-12 at 10.08.58.png

We used to live in the apartments behind the mall and ate at 3 Brothers with some frequency.  It's good for what it is, if that's not some kind of tautology. (Or it was good for what it was. I haven't eaten there at some time.) The location they have on Kenilworth Ave., near the DC line, has/had a store selling Italian goods adjacent to it.  Of the last X times I've eaten at 3 Brothers, all but one time was at the Kenilworth location. That's got more of a regular restaurant feel than the mall location, which is, uh, mall-like. I always liked their pizza.

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12 hours ago, MarkS said:

How does 3 Brothers pizza stack up.  They are in Laurel? I've never eaten there but have heard its reasonable and crowded.

Been at least 10 years, probably more, since I have had anything from Three Brothers. My memory ia somewhat vague and imprecise so it stands to reason it not stand out as particularly good or bad.

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On 4/12/2018 at 10:13 AM, DonRocks said:

Wow, Three Brothers - that's a blast from the past for me: I used to occasionally get a slice from Beltway Plaza Mall in Greenbelt before catching a movie at the AMC Academy 8 (is this ringing a bell with anyone?)

When I was back in high school (late 1970s), this was the AMC Academy 6.

A bunch of us saw Flesh Gordon at Beltsville Drive-In. Trailer.

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