jasonc Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Andrelton Simmons, 4.6 WAR in 2013. UZR = 24.6. Best defensive SS since Ozzie Smith. Probably better when all is said and done. seriously, some of these defy what the body is supposed to do: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRocks Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Andrelton Simmons, 4.6 WAR in 2013. UZR = 24.6. Best defensive SS since Ozzie Smith. Probably better when all is said and done. seriously, some of these defy what the body is supposed to do: I've watched the first 6:43 of this video, and am going to save the rest for later. My God. He has incredible speed, and a cannon for an arm. As an ex-infielder (and a pretty damned good one, if I do say so myself), I can say that running towards the outfield, with your back to the plate, and catching the ball as it drops down in front of you, is so incredibly difficult that you remember it every single time it happens. Over the next day or two, I will watch the rest of this video with pleasure, awe, and total respect. I don't want to admit that there may be a better glove-man than Brooks Robinson. I looked at some statistics, hoping deep in my heart that Simmons might be a flashy, but inconsistent defenseman. However, in his 3rd season, he has a career .983 fielding percentage which places him in the top 4 all-time (*). Yes, it's too early to be making judgments, but with a sensational player such as this, fielding percentage lies on the *low end* because he gets to balls that nobody else would get to, and makes ridiculous tags, catches, and throw-outs that wouldn't be errors even if he missed them. Brooks Robinson is ranked #3 all-time for 3rd baseman (honestly, I always thought he was 1st, and in fact, he was, for a long, long time). Two very different positions, but perhaps (along with catcher) the most difficult defensive positions to play. Simmons is certainly quicker than Robinson (once you get past the initial cat-like reflex), and has a much stronger arm. However, I can never, and will never, say that Simmons is superior to Robinson. Just take that as a lemma, secured in place, forever, regardless of whether or not it's correct. (*) An interesting, and perhaps intuitive footnote: all 278 shortstops on this list threw with their right hand. All 252 3rd basemen on the all-time list also threw with their right hand. "Bill Greenwood" is the answer to one hell of a trivia question considering he *retired* in 1890, and he's the *only* catch-and-throw infielder on any of these lists. That is absolutely incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonc Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 I think it's the arm that really gets you. It's one thing getting to some of these balls, but popping up and throwing a laser to first seems almost like magic. But you'd know better than me Don - I was always relegated to right field :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveO Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 omg. that guy has a cannon of an arm. He is also fast and rangy. I've only watched a few minutes and will do what Don is doing, I'll watch the rest over time. I don't know how soft his hands are. @Don: third and short are two different positions (though similar) and comparing them is like apples and oranges. The quickness and immediacy factor of making the right jump at an instant are different for third and short. I wouldn't compare this guy to Brooks. Its two different positions. Is he a better fielder at short than Ozzie Smith? I don't know. Ozzie had range, hands, an accurate arm and was astoundingly athletic. He was the most magical I recall. I don't follow baseball overall as closely and really didn't know much about this wizard. But those plays on the video are outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonc Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 Is he a better fielder at short than Ozzie Smith? I don't know. Ozzie had range, hands, an accurate arm and was astoundingly athletic. He was the most magical I recall. I don't follow baseball overall as closely and really didn't know much about this wizard. But those plays on the video are outstanding. Go to 21:45 for evidence re: hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonc Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 And see this article: "Is Andrelton Simmons Having The Best Defensive Season Ever?" by Jeff Sullivan on fangraphs.com The upshot is that we don't know, but if so it probably has to do with being able to play much deeper than the average shortstop, because he throws 97mph+ accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRocks Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 And see this article: "Is Andrelton Simmons Having The Best Defensive Season Ever?" by Jeff Sullivan on fangraphs.com The upshot is that we don't know, but if so it probably has to do with being able to play much deeper than the average shortstop, because he throws 97mph+ accurately. I'll tell you what's scary: Placido Polanco is the all-team fielding percentage leader at both 2B *and* 3B. As hard as it is for me to say it, Andrelton Simmons is not one, but two full generations (baseball generations) after Brooks Robinson. Of *course* people come along who are better. Babe Ruth would never hit 60 home runs in today's game (without steroids), but he's still Babe Ruth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonc Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 But as you noted above, fielding percentage is a deeply flawed statistic. Citing fielding percentage as evidence of the best fielder is like saying the best quarterback is the one with the lowest interception rate, or the best basketball defender is the one with the fewest fouls. Not making errors has value, but its far from the most important thing you can do as a defender. There is even a poem about it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonc Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 "Andrelton Simmons Might Be The Greatest Defensive Shortstop Ever" by David Schoenfield on espn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRocks Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 "Andrelton Simmons Might Be The Greatest Defensive Shortstop Ever" by David Schoenfield on espn.com I think it would be more remarkable if there was a column claiming he *wasn't* the greatest defensive shortstop ever. That's about the most perfect play you'll ever see from a shortstop, and I suspect nobody else in the world could have pulled it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyjoan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 My husband was upstairs and I was watching the game downstairs, and when that play unfolded, I screamed, "Oh my god, HOLY SHIT" so loudly and enthusiastically that Jason came running - he thought something awful had happened. Just when you think you've seen the limit of Andrelton Simmons' reach, he goes and does something like that. I think Travis d'Arnaud was in total disbelief - like, "He did that to me AGAIN???" Love it. Just Simba being Simba. :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRocks Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 My husband was upstairs and I was watching the game downstairs, and when that play unfolded, I screamed, "Oh my god, HOLY SHIT" so loudly and enthusiastically that Jason came running - he thought something awful had happened. Just when you think you've seen the limit of Andrelton Simmons' reach, he goes and does something like that. I think Travis d'Arnaud was in total disbelief - like, "He did that to me AGAIN???" Love it. Everyone who just read Betty Joan's post needs to read the first 2-3 paragraphs of this: "Federer as Religious Experience" by David Foster Wallace Ring a bell, Betty Joan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyjoan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Yes! And now I am flashing back to Federer's glory years - he really was something to see. I always got irked at my parents, who said they didn't like Federer but couldn't give me any legitimate reason why. I think extreme success can rub people the wrong way, even though I never felt that Federer was tacky or boastful about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRocks Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 11/12/15 - "Braves Have Explaining To Do After Trading Simmons To Angels" by Ken Rosenthal on foxsports.com Have the Braves lost their collective minds?! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyjoan Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 11/12/15 - "Braves Have Explaining To Do After Trading Simmons To Angels" by Ken Rosenthal on foxsports.com Have the Braves lost their collective minds?! AND they are apparently shopping Freddie Freeman. I am not speaking to the Braves right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRocks Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 AND they are apparently shopping Freddie Freeman. I am not speaking to the Braves right now. You don't trade players like Simmons; you make them permanent residents - hometown heros like Ernie Banks, of Al Kaline, or Harmon Killebrew, or Mickey Mantle, or Brooks Robinson, or Yogi Berra, or Hank Aaron (who only went back to Milwaukee because they once hosted the Braves), or Chipper Jones - I can't think of one, single, great Braves pitcher who spent his entire career with the club. Pay Simmons 5% more than anyone else offers - no matter what - and you've done your city the biggest favor that you're capable of doing (barring spending $1 billion to build a state-of-the-art hospital with greatly discounted rates for the poor and uninsured, or something like that). If Dan Snyder really wanted the DC area to love him, he'd sell the team, and build that exact hospital in Southeast - he'd be forever loved and deified by Washingtonians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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