Say It Taints HoJo

[Pat]

I've not been to [garble garble garble] and have no opinion pro or con, but couldn't a lot of this be that you have not eaten fries (or fries in any significant amount) in quite a long time? I deduced from what you wrote--I don't know if correctly--that you are probably not eating a lot of deep-fried food these days. I don't know if that would account for such an extreme reaction, but it could account for a reaction.

Edited March 12, 2006 by DonRocks

[zoramargolis]

Aside from providing WAY too much information, your story about getting sick after a visit to [garble garble garble] suggests a few questions:

1)Friends who have gone through Food Safety certification have told me that Health Departments don't take reports of "food poisoning" seriously that happen less than 12 hours after ingesting a meal. That is how long it takes for bacterial contamination to cause illness. What did you eat earlier in the day?

2)Could you have had a 24-hour stomach flu that became symptomatic that evening? There's still a lot of Noro-virus going around. That's the highly infectious "Winter Vomiting Illness" that's ruined many a Caribbean cruise in the past few years.

3)Why are you assuming it was the fries upsetting your stomach? Even if it was something you ate there that made you sick, the veggie burgers are a more likely culprit. I'm assuming they don't sell as many of them as beef burgers, and if they had caused illness in others, the manager would likely have heard about it from other people. Which leads to the next question:

4)Did you call and speak to a manager to ask if anyone else had complained of illness after eating there the day before?

I'm sure that your illness was very unpleasant. But tarring a restaurant online with the "I got sick after eating there" brush can be unfairly damaging to their reputation, if it wasn't their fault.

Edited March 12, 2006 by DonRocks

[DonRocks]

[Aargh.

I hate to outright delete this posting, because you put so much time and effort into it, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to unless there's a note from a hospital emergency room verifying a diagnosis of food poisoning.

Even if you're right (and believe me, I'm not saying you aren't), the ramifications of allowing anonymous food-poisoning postings are just too severe in terms of the potential havoc Enemies Of Restaurants could wreak.

Cheers,

Rocks]

Edited March 23, 2006 by DonRocks

[ScotteeM]

[split off from the Tom Chat thread]

I agree that the post was in poor taste, and should not have been posted.

However, I've seen a couple of posts on DR.com stating that food poisoning symptoms don't occur very soon after eating tainted food, and I want to refute that.

According to the NIH, symptoms can start within 2-6 hours of consumption of contaminated food. Onset varies by the type of infective agent.

I know whereof I speak.

Edited March 23, 2006 by DonRocks

[Barbara]

However, I've seen a couple of posts on DR.com stating that food poisoning symptoms don't occur very soon after eating tainted food, and I want to refute that. 

According to the NIH, symptoms can start within 2-6 hours of consumption of contaminated food.  Onset varies by the type of infective agent.

I know whereof I speak.

This is true. My first, and so far WORST, case of food poisoning came from my mother's kitchen many, many moons ago. I was 10 years old . . . you do the math.

Over the years, I discovered a couple of things. If I ordered the Kung Pao Shrimp from a local Chinese carry-out joint and drank a bottle of beer, whatever "irregularity" problems I might have been experiencing at the time were quickly resolved. Same with the "Eggplant Parmesan" which used to be available from what continues to be one of my favorite places. The stuff was so very delicious, that I would calculate if it was a "convenient" time to indulge. I really can't imagine what they did to that stuff, but it has long been off the menu.

Before any of you imagine that I have a tender stomach, I should tell you that nothing I ate at Szechuan Boy last night was considered too "spicy" by me and didn't result in any problems other than my feeling that I could go for a long time without another meal. However, I did eat the lovely pasta that Craig cooked tonight.

[Mrs. B]

This is true.  My first, and so far WORST, case of food poisoning came from my mother's kitchen many, many moons ago.  I was 10 years old . . . you do the math.

Over the years, I discovered a couple of things.  If I ordered the Kung Pao Shrimp from a local Chinese carry-out joint and drank a bottle of beer, whatever "irregularity" problems I might have been experiencing at the time were quickly resolved.  Same with the "Eggplant Parmesan" which used to be available from what continues to be one of my favorite places.  The stuff was so very delicious, that I would calculate if it was a "convenient" time to indulge.  I really can't imagine what they did to that stuff, but it has long been off the menu.

Before any of you imagine that I have a tender stomach, I should tell you that nothing I ate at Szechuan Boy last night was considered too "spicy" by me and didn't result in any problems other than my feeling that I could go for a long time without another meal.  However, I did eat the lovely pasta that Craig cooked tonight.

I must plan certain food indulgences carefully as well, though I will not go into detail. I eat most every form and spiciness of food but I think this is a case of know thyself or know thy in-tes-tine.

The only time I was sure of the sickness being something I ate (that was truly bad and didn't just "disagree" with me) that had its impact within 24 hours was brought about by clams that I merely tasted than spat away. Boy did I pay

The person (that slammed his comped shake out meal) is an ingrate and if the identity of such ingrate is discovered, the identity and person to whom such identity is attached should be banned forever from the secret society and the ingrate should have to be a server for all eternity earning naught but 10% (grammar and punc. okay Hill?). That behaviour leaves me positively speechless.

[Heather]

According to the NIH, symptoms can start within 2-6 hours of consumption of contaminated food.  Onset varies by the type of infective agent.

True, but I would not pin it on a restaurant - in a public forum - without a trip to the the emergency room and a lab report showing a food-borne pathogen. And s/he should have called the restaurant, let them know what happened, and inquired if anyone else had become ill.

The bitching about a free meal at a soft opening is classless, especially with dropping so many clues about who owns it.

[CrescentFresh]

True, but I would not pin it on a restaurant - in a public forum - without a trip to the the emergency room and a lab report showing a food-borne pathogen. 

I also agree that sickness can come quickly after eating something foul. However, I'm also under the impression that a lab report is the ONLY way to actually prove food poisoning.

[monavano]

Just FYI, a trip to the emergency room does not warrant a full panel of tests. It's a waste of money UNLESS you are experiencing symptoms which do not respond to the requisite treatment for BOTH food poisoning and a stomach virus/stomach flu. Which is: hang a bag or two of fluids and give Metronidazole or the like.

It's not as if you go to a hospital and they go "OH MY GOD, we HAVE to diagnose this to see EXACTLY what pathogen this is". They treat it sympomatically, which for both conditions is the same in most cases. And, if you get better, which most folks do, you don't know what exactly you had.

It still warrants consideration, beyond flaming this poster and those who put it into the public eye, that restaurant managers should know if it is possible that one got sick from thier food. If anything, it can serve to keep a closer eye on on operations as they pertain to food safety.

Food borne illness can kill people, whether it comes from yo' mama's kitchen, your kitchen or that of a restaurant.

[Heather]

Agreed that it needn't be the emergency room unless you're getting dehydrated and unable to hold down any fluids. A trip to your regular old GP should be sufficient. I still maintain to that to blame food poisoning on a particular restaurant requires a little more proof than "I ate there and then barfed later on".

[bilrus]

The three occasions when I had what I considered to be food poisoning were all accompanied by at least one dining companion who ate at least one dish in common with me experiencing the same sickness within the same time frame. I considered that confirmation enough to contact the restaurants and let them know what had happened.

But I'd never post about it in anything but general terms.

[monavano]

Agreed that it needn't be the emergency room unless you're getting dehydrated and unable to hold down any fluids.  A trip to your regular old GP should be sufficient.  I still maintain to that to blame food poisoning on a particular restaurant requires a little more proof than "I ate there and then barfed later on".  

Sorry, just to clarify that severe dehydration IS an emergent problem and should not be put off until you can get in to see your own doctor if there is a wait. I meant to say that the ER more than likely will not order a panoply of tests, but they will pump a few bags of fluids which can be life-saving.

I agree with bilirus that two persons getting ill over a shared food item points to the possiblity of said illness being aquired from the food.

[zoramargolis]

[split off from the Tom Chat thread]

I agree that the post was in poor taste, and should not have been posted.

However, I've seen a couple of posts on DR.com stating that food poisoning symptoms don't occur very soon after eating tainted food, and I want to refute that. 

According to the NIH, symptoms can start within 2-6 hours of consumption of contaminated food.  Onset varies by the type of infective agent.

I know whereof I speak.

If this is the case, then a quartet of chefs, all of whom are certified food handlers, were seriously misinformed by the institution which provided their food safety training. They were the ones who insisted that my friend, who had gotten sick three hours after eating in that restaurant, couldn't have been sickened by the food there.

[deangold]

I was alway taught that in the typical cases of food poisining, the time to onset roughtly equals the duration of the primary symptoms, but that there are exceptions. There is no common form of food poisining that will result in someone instantly feeling bad. So when you hear "I knew as soon as I tasted the food that it poisoned me" you are probably dealing with other issues.

Even with a slow of testing, there are doubts and uncertainties. FOr example, almost all food has a certain load of potentially harmful bacteria in levels too low to cause harm. WHen improperly stored, these bacteria levels can rise to harmful levels. So say you ahve leftovers at home. They may have a high load of e-coli despite the that food itself, when served in the restaurant, was perfectly safe and harmless. Since E-Coli can be picked up in many ways not related to food handling in a restaurant, you can have a sample test positive and not be responsible for the illness. It would take quite detailed testing to find this fact out (and may never be provable one way or the other).

Also, for there to be an outbreak of food born illness, two unrelated cases of are required to spark investigation. So two people inthe same party, with common contact outside of the meal would be of lower suspicion than two people in the same party who only met at the restaurant itself.

[DonRocks]

Better Campylobacter than Jumping Frenchmen of Maine, I always say.

Lovin' the rhyme of cholera,

Rocks.

[Bob Wells]

Better Campylobacter than Jumping Frenchmen of Maine, I always say.

Lovin' the rhyme of cholera,

Rocks.

Having had a most unfortunate experience with campylobacter, and also having spent many summers in Maine, where I interacted with many Frenchmen (mainly earthbound), I'll take my chances with Jumpin' Pierre.

Remember those signs and bumper stickers that said "LOSE WEIGHT NOW! ASK ME HOW"? I'll tell you how: Get infected with campylobacter. I lost nine pounds in a week. I did get $100 from the chicken company for my troubles, though.

[Pat]

I get the feeling that some people use the term "food poisoning" the way other people do "food allergies." Both are serious and potentially very dangerous, but some individuals use the terms somewhat loosely. I guess it's an easy conclusion to draw when you get sick after eating somewhere, but I always wonder what other variables there are when I hear a story about it.

Fortunately, I don't think that I've ever had food poisoning. I've never had a serious enough reaction to food to think I have, though I have seen articles saying that low-level food poisoning is more common than people think and accounts for illnesses people attribute to other things.

A lot of my thinking on this subject traces to a friend who visited years ago. We took her to a local Italian restaurant. By the end of dinner, she said she wasn't feeling well. Immediately upon returning to the house, she ran to the bathroom and threw up. She said she had food poisoning from the food at the restaurant. Given that she'd only finished eating an hour before, that seemed unlikely. Then she said that she gets food poisoning "very easily," which struck me as an odd comment. How many people get food poisoning often enough to draw such a general conclusion? Then she said that she knew it was from the sausage in her entree; it tasted like licorce. The sausage had FENNEL in it!

I don't doubt that she was miserably sick, and as her hostess, I felt bad. But I don't think she had food poisoning.

[B.A.R.]

I've had food poisoning twice. One required hospitalization, the other should have. I think most people, when they eat something at a restaurant that doesn't quite agree with them, immediately think "food poisoning". If they ate the same meal in their home, they'd think they were "coming down with the flu".

Just my two cents.

[porcupine]

I get the feeling that some people use the term "food poisoning" the way other people do "food allergies." 

I could be wrong, but I believe what most people experience as 'food poisoning' is correctly referred to as 'food-borne illness'. True food poisoning is blessedly rare. If an actual medical expert would care to chime in, I'm all ears. And while we're at it - the same person who gave me this info (who took a government-sponsored commercial food handling class) also told me that there's no such thing as 'stomach flu', and that influenza is a viral disease of the respiratory system; the so-called stomach flu is actually food borne illness. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Yours, an occasional victim and also a pedant,

[Barbara]

I've had food poisoning twice. One required hospitalization, the other should have. I think most people, when they eat something at a restaurant that doesn't quite agree with them, immediately think "food poisoning". If they ate the same meal in their home, they'd think they were "coming down with the flu".

Just my two cents.

I agree with this. Once you have had a true case of food poisoning (mine came from making a BLT with leftover cooked bacon that had been in the fridge a lot longer than I realized at the time--my mother hated throwing out food), you know the difference between that and eating something that just upsets your tummy. And it isn't fair to claim "food poisoning" when you have allergies. That's a different subject and one you must take responsibility for in letting the restaurant know what you have to avoid.

[hm212]

I agree with this.  Once you have had a true case of food poisoning (mine came from making a BLT with leftover cooked bacon that had been in the fridge a lot longer than I realized at the time--my mother hated throwing out food), you know the difference between that and eating something that just upsets your tummy.  And it isn't fair to claim "food poisoning" when you have allergies.  That's a different subject and one you must take responsibility for in letting the restaurant know what you have to avoid.

I too had food poisining once. About 15 years ago, from a chinese restaurant in chinatown. I thought I was going to die. My friend thought it was a virus and ate my leftovers the next day, she believed me after that.

[Heather]

also told me that there's no such thing as 'stomach flu', and that influenza is a viral disease of the respiratory system; the so-called stomach flu is actually food borne illness.  Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Not always. Those of us with young children could probably tell you more than you want to know about Rotavirus.

[mktye]

I get the feeling that some people use the term "food poisoning" the way other people do "food allergies." 

And to further confuse things, some people use the term "food allergy" when what they have is actually a "food intolerance" (click).