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"The Omnivore's Dilemma"


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Michael Pollan is the author of a very thoughtful article published in the NY Times Magazine in 2003, IIRC, about the ethics of eating meat. He wrote at length about Polyface Farm--our local, VA green-raised meat source at the Arlington and Dupont Circle Markets. Pollan decided that he felt ok about eating meat if the animals were raised and slaughtered humanely, in the way that Polyface does it.

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I second... I think it's been mentioned in the books thread here, but worth noting again. It took me a little while to get into the corn discussion in the beginning, but after that it was very quick reading. Pollan has been picked up quite a bit lately too - in Time magazine with the food section the other week, NY Times magazine about Walmart's organic push, etc.

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I just read a review of this book in the Times Literary Supplement. The subtitle of the UK edition is somewhat more revealing and less sensationalistic than the US version: "A natural history of four meals." Here's a quote from the review which might be helpful to those thinking of buying the book:

"[The author] traces, and sometimes participates in, the histories, from field, factory, or forest to the table, of the 'four meals' referred to in his sub-title. The four meals are a McDonald's take-away, two organic-chicken dinners ('organic industrial' and local, 'grass-fed', respectively), and a banquet of wild pig, mushrooms and other ingredients hunted or gathered by the author himself. Researching the histories of these meals takes Pollan from the cornbelt of Iowa to the Shenandoah Valley to the Californian Sierra, and acquaints him with a cast of characters who might variously have sprung from the pages of John Steinbeck, Thoams Jefferson, or Ken Kesey."

The US edition is published by Penguin Press.

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Everyone who loves food should read this book and pass the message on. Brilliant insight into the very different worlds of industrial, organic and sustainable farming.

I just finished reading it--Pollan is a brilliant writer and thinker. I really enjoyed his chapter on hunting and foraging. While I haven't hunted, I have a friend who brings me local wild venison, shad and herring, duck and goose to cook, and I have been a wild food and mushroom forager for many years. There is a primal pleasure in the treasure hunt that Pollan totally captured on the page.Though I have been a farmers' market devotee since the mid-eighties when I lived in Santa Monica, he's inspired me to eat locally even more than I have been, and to spend fewer of my food dollars on industrial organic stuff from Whole Foods.

Nina Planck, whose parents own Wheatlands Farm in Loudon Co. was on WAMU this morning plugging a book she's written about eating local, sustainably raised food and debating a scientist from the pleasure police, who was plugging yet another book insisting that we eat a very low fat, no meat-eggs-dairy, whole grains, no fun diet. N.P. has gone from being a vegan to eating grass-fed meats, raw milk, eggs and cheese as well as veggies, and says she is healthier in many ways than she was before.

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While I do intend to read this book at some point in the near future, let me share with you a rather entertaining letter to Mr. Pollan. It's silly..._click_

Yes, but one of Pollan's points was missed in the story: the urban animal gets HAY instead of a verdant pasture to graze.

I was curious about an earlier comment regarding subtitles in different national editions of the book, so here's a link to amazon.co.uk. Interesting to see the two pitches and graphics. The US edition has a soothing visual quality: a quiet, bucolic 17th-century Dutch still-life without the Vanitas undertones, harkening back to the success of The Botany of Desire. The UK edition screams Eric Schlosser and seems to appeal to anti(American capitalism).

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Yes, but one of Pollan's points was missed in the story: the urban animal gets HAY instead of a verdant pasture to graze.

I was curious about an earlier comment regarding subtitles in different national editions of the book, so here's a link to amazon.co.uk. Interesting to see the two pitches and graphics. The US edition has a soothing visual quality: a quiet, bucolic 17th-century Dutch still-life without the Vanitas undertones, harkening back to the success of The Botany of Desire. The UK edition screams Eric Schlosser and seems to appeal to anti(American capitalism).

It seems I (and the TLS) got the subtitles reversed. What the TLS lists is actually the American edition subtitle. I wouldn't call the UK subtitle anti-American, though it is anti-fast food. Unfortunately, fast food, like grown men wearing shorts in churches and restaurants, has long since ceased being an exclusively American phenomenon.

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I just finished reading it--Pollan is a brilliant writer and thinker. I really enjoyed his chapter on hunting and foraging. While I haven't hunted, I have a friend who brings me local wild venison, shad and herring, duck and goose to cook, and I have been a wild food and mushroom forager for many years. There is a primal pleasure in the treasure hunt that Pollan totally captured on the page.Though I have been a farmers' market devotee since the mid-eighties when I lived in Santa Monica, he's inspired me to eat locally even more than I have been, and to spend fewer of my food dollars on industrial organic stuff from Whole Foods.

Nina Planck, whose parents own Wheatlands Farm in Loudon Co. was on WAMU this morning plugging a book she's written about eating local, sustainably raised food and debating a scientist from the pleasure police, who was plugging yet another book insisting that we eat a very low fat, no meat-eggs-dairy, whole grains, no fun diet. N.P. has gone from being a vegan to eating grass-fed meats, raw milk, eggs and cheese as well as veggies, and says she is healthier in many ways than she was before.

If you missed the WAMU show, you can get another chance to hear Nina Wednesday night 7pm at Politics and Prose. Michael Pollan blurbed her book, Real Food. I bought both of them recently and I think they complement each other.

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who knew about corn. i know i didn't. this book is radical, and it goes far beyond fast food. it challenges the american agricultural system, and at least by implication u.s. policies on the environment, land use, public health and foreign policy. i would love to see a presidential candidate tell the country that it is time to get back in shape and that one of the top priorities of his or her administration will be good food and respect for animals. in the meantime, the farmer's market is looking more and more like the best consolation out there, although the prices are high and rising ($3.50 a pound for tomatoes and fennel last week).

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who knew about corn. i know i didn't. this book is radical, and it goes far beyond fast food. it challenges the american agricultural system, and at least by implication u.s. policies on the environment, land use, public health and foreign policy. i would love to see a presidential candidate tell the country that it is time to get back in shape and that one of the top priorities of his or her administration will be good food and respect for animals. in the meantime, the farmer's market is looking more and more like the best consolation out there, although the prices are high and rising ($3.50 a pound for tomatoes and fennel last week).

I have cut down on my farmers market trips because of the prices. I was spending $40 a week on produce and Milk. I understand supporting locals are important, however you have to think about what you can afford and what's more important. It's true that we need better food in this country, but this guy thinks that your whole diet should be based off local foods. That is just not going to happen...who has the time to track it down? I have read some of the stuff he wrote on the NY Times site, and I enjoyed reading it, but thought that he was asking too much. I think most people are concerned with the taste of the product more so than where it came from. I don't think I would be able to tell the difference between a free range chicken from Loundon County and one from Bresse.

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I have cut down on my farmers market trips because of the prices. I was spending $40 a week on produce and Milk. I understand supporting locals are important, however you have to think about what you can afford and what's more important. It's true that we need better food in this country, but this guy thinks that your whole diet should be based off local foods. That is just not going to happen...who has the time to track it down? I have read some of the stuff he wrote on the NY Times site, and I enjoyed reading it, but thought that he was asking too much. I think most people are concerned with the taste of the product more so than where it came from. I don't think I would be able to tell the difference between a free range chicken from Loundon County and one from Bresse.

I haven't finished the book, but so far I'm reading facts, and not preaching. So far he hasn't told me, the reader, what I should be doing. I'm making my own informed decisions.

I agree that most people are concerned with taste, and are "addicted to" the taste of corn-fed beef, pork, and chicken. I think folks are more concerned with price, and that is where our true addiction is, culturally, in terms of food.

I appreciate that many people cannot afford to source their food from local sustainable organic farms. That's part of Pollan's point--the cheap corn has produced cheap food to which we as a culture are now addicted. Is he really postulating that everyone in the country must turn to local, sustainably farmed, humanely raised food sources?

I may not be able to derive all of my food from local organic sustainable sources, but at least I can get some or most of it that way.

I'd think the free-range chicken from Bresse might be a day or two older than the one from Loudoin County, and yes, you might taste a difference. But then again, maybe not.

The information I've gotten so far does speak directly to the foie gras issue. Corn-fed beef cattle in feed lots are not really different from the ducks fed corn to fatten their livers. Corn is not a natural food for cattle or ducks. It produces artifically excessive fat content in the animal. Corn-fed cattle would not survive much beyond the age at which they are slaughtered--that's how unhealthy the corn-based diet is for them. Keeping in mind that the ducks are not literally force-fed, but are trained through positive reinforcement to accept the gavage, there is little difference between their lives and those of feed-lot cattle (or hogs).

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I haven't finished the book, but so far I'm reading facts, and not preaching. So far he hasn't told me, the reader, what I should be doing. I'm making my own informed decisions.

I agree that most people are concerned with taste, and are "addicted to" the taste of corn-fed beef, pork, and chicken. I think folks are more concerned with price, and that is where our true addiction is, culturally, in terms of food.

I appreciate that many people cannot afford to source their food from local sustainable organic farms. That's part of Pollan's point--the cheap corn has produced cheap food to which we as a culture are now addicted. Is he really postulating that everyone in the country must turn to local, sustainably farmed, humanely raised food sources?

I may not be able to derive all of my food from local organic sustainable sources, but at least I can get some or most of it that way.

I'd think the free-range chicken from Bresse might be a day or two older than the one from Loudoin County, and yes, you might taste a difference. But then again, maybe not.

The information I've gotten so far does speak directly to the foie gras issue. Corn-fed beef cattle in feed lots are not really different from the ducks fed corn to fatten their livers. Corn is not a natural food for cattle or ducks. It produces artifically excessive fat content in the animal. Corn-fed cattle would not survive much beyond the age at which they are slaughtered--that's how unhealthy the corn-based diet is for them. Keeping in mind that the ducks are not literally force-fed, but are trained through positive reinforcement to accept the gavage, there is little difference between their lives and those of feed-lot cattle (or hogs).

I understand very much the cost of buying locally. A chicken in the supermarket costs 79c per pound, a free range chicken from Polyface Farm costs $2.20 per pound, but what is the future of our planet worth? I look at it this way: we are at zero, every plus one is plus one. We must make an effort, if foodservice professionals and food lovers don't try the food chain is doomed. Not only fast food but restaurant chains that thrive off cheap food like Cheesecake Factory will be the future of fine cuisine.

The questions I ask myself when I buy for the restaurant are: are the $3.50 per pound tomatoes worth it, are they different, do they taste better, do they last longer, do I feel better about myself, can I stay in business buying product that is 3-4 times more expensive than the alternative. There is no doubt in my mind, that is why I will drive 400 miles next Wednesday to pick up my chickens from Joel Salatin that will be alive when I get to his farm and served that evening, beef, eggs the same.

Take the test.....cook a supermarket egg and a free range egg side by side, you will see and taste the difference. We must teach our children the value of food culture, what is more important to the developement of a childs mind than good sustenance and the nurturing effect of the family dinner?

Happy dining.

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I really, really want to be able to say that I buy organic and local all the time, but I can't. I do buy organic milk sometimes, am a member of a CSA, try to buy in season, and buy organic produce when it doesn't seem to be too exorbitantly priced.

I've just finished Planck's book, and it made me think quite a bit about the pros and cons for me regarding buying local/organic. The problem is the last point- price. If the local/organic food movement could come up with a way to ameliorate the fact that only the "rich" can afford good food without completely erasing the meaning of it in the first place, it would be a lot easier to swallow. I understand- and agree- with the premise that it's not so much that local/organic is overpriced, it's that industrial agriculture has depressed prices. But most of the time I just can't justify spending $4 a lb on local tomatoes in season. Not to mention the hidden costs of going all over town or ordering onoline to source meats/dairy, vegetables. What should I do? How can we support local/organic and not go broke in the process? I don't say this to be disrespectful to other's viewpoints, but am looking for candid, openminded opinions.

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It may not be possible or practical for most of us to obtain our food exclusively from local, organic, sustainable sources. But even getting some of it from these sources helps support those farmers.

One point I've gotten from Pollan's book so far is that the local, organic, sustainably farmed foods are not extremely expensive--it's the factory farmed foods that are so cheap. Just as we Americans have been used to cheap gasoline, we're used to cheap food. Cathal makes an important point, which is that we don't see the money that we each pay through our taxes to subsidize farmers who grow corn (and soy?) in the US. That economy has nothing to do with supply and demand, and everything to do with abundant supply at ever-lower prices. The companies that purchase the corn and soybeans to process into "food" products pay an unnatural price for the raw products because the US government pays the farmers the difference between some price that the government has established and what the companies pay the farmers.

In fact, many, if not most, of these corn farmers cannot support themselves solely by growing corn. Many have jobs like truck-driving to support them, or family members who work outside of the farm to support the family. Instead of growing less corn as the price goes down, the farmers are driven to grow even more corn. The price doesn't fluctuate based on the supply. In growing more and more corn on the same tract of land, the land itself has become depleted and addicted to chemicals. The corn itself has been selectively bred or genetically engineered to support this addiction, in the form of "Roundup-Ready corn" that can be sprayed with pesticides without suffering "ill effects" itself.

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I understand very much the cost of buying locally. A chicken in the supermarket costs 79c per pound, a free range chicken from Polyface Farm costs $2.20 per pound, but what is the future of our planet worth? I look at it this way: we are at zero, every plus one is plus one. We must make an effort, if foodservice professionals and food lovers don't try the food chain is doomed. Not only fast food but restaurant chains that thrive off cheap food like Cheesecake Factory will be the future of fine cuisine.

The questions I ask myself when I buy for the restaurant are: are the $3.50 per pound tomatoes worth it, are they different, do they taste better, do they last longer, do I feel better about myself, can I stay in business buying product that is 3-4 times more expensive than the alternative. There is no doubt in my mind, that is why I will drive 400 miles next Wednesday to pick up my chickens from Joel Salatin that will be alive when I get to his farm and served that evening, beef, eggs the same.

Take the test.....cook a supermarket egg and a free range egg side by side, you will see and taste the difference. We must teach our children the value of food culture, what is more important to the developement of a childs mind than good sustenance and the nurturing effect of the family dinner?

Happy dining.

I agree with your points, however the everyday consumer cannot source and buy food that fresh daily. I would really love to able to buy everything local for all my meals, but it's very hard to do.

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the wonder of this book is that it puts food at the center of everything that is important in the world.

the discussion on vegetarianism and eating meat ethically is as good a summary of this issue as you could hope to find.

the author does not impose his viewpoint on anyone, and few readers will agree with absolutely everything he has to say. (i don't need to go out and shoot my own boar for a shot of adrenaline.)

just about every week, we are accompanied to the farmers market by a neighbor who is far from wealthy but who cares about the food she eats. she even buys flowers, and prefers those that were grown outside.

you can't buy everything at the farmers market, but there are some things that are hard to find anyplace else. i am thinking of good tomatoes.

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I agree with your points, however the everyday consumer cannot source and buy food that fresh daily. I would really love to able to buy everything local for all my meals, but it's very hard to do.

What you say is quite true, and I don't think anyone participating in this discussion is suggesting that everyone should or must only buy local, organic, sustainably produced food products. Even Pollan doesn't seem to be saying that.

It is, however, good to understand where your food comes from, and how it was produced. I have found a lot of answers in Pollan's book. I certainly don't eat that way exclusively, however. (I'm sure my lunch delivery from Pizza Joe's today is not organic or locally sourced, but I'll eat it anyway.)

I'm not going to pay $12 for every chicken I eat for the rest of my life, but I try to buy the best quality commercial chicken much of the time (Bell & Evans) and splurge on Cibola Farms' or comparable for special meals. And in my experience, Bell & Evans at WF is not more expensive than the chicken at the big chains--often it is less expensive.

All you can do is all you can do.

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Tell you what to eat, how to eat it, how to pay for it, be a good 'customer',etc. I'm referencing what I thought was a pretty well-known Seinfeld episode.

I recognized the reference to Seinfeld. I just don't see how it applies to the discussion in this thread.

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I recognized the reference to Seinfeld. I just don't see how it applies to the discussion in this thread.

AMEN SISTER!!!!!!!!! (All you can do is all you can do.) But THAT IS ALOT! IF you make the effort.

To those reading this thread---Read this book..it reveals what should have been revealed long ago.

We, the Armstrongs (Restaurant Eve) always thought we were ' In the know' BOY were we wrong...

BUT not anymore!

Be well all. Meshe at Eve

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While not having purchased "An Omnivore's Dilemma", waiting for a loaner, I have but one interesting point. Americans spend less as a percentage of income on food than any other nation on Earth, roughly 7%. Other "First World" countries spend closer to 17% on food. Conversely we spend 19-26% on Health care, versus 8-9% in Europe. This is based on GDP figures, so the socialized medicine argument is invalid.

Nothing is more difficult than finding healthy options for a family to eat. It takes time and effort to shop well, and more time to cook and prepare meals. Everyone can get sucked into the fast and easy solutions especially with kids in the house and the long hours of work and the emphasis placed on workplace success(interesting byproduct of the free market and protestant work ethic). Look at the skyrocketing percentage of obese children, it is a terrible almost criminal problem. I know my girls love McDonald's fries, I love McDonalds fries, but the faster we wean ourselves off the agribusiness teat the better off we are going to be.

Buying local and organic is not a universal panacea, the social pressures that shape the trends are myriad and span, regional, social, economic and especially political divisions, but as Cathal suggested, starting from zero a step in the right direction is infinitely better than no attempt at all.

I know it's expensive to buy local/organic/sustainable we struggle with it from a business standpoint like a lot of chefs and like a lot of families do, but an attempt should be made by all who can. I recently had a discussion with my wife about focusing on what we buy and where we buy it and how we can make a couple of sacrifices to cover the increased cost of buying the foodstuffs that are best for us and our girls, difficult but attainable. We'll see how it shakes out for us.

I know I've rambled a bit, but the last thing I'll mention is what a philosophy prof. mentioned to me some years back, that Western philosophy was shaped by the question why, whereas Chinese philosophy has been shaped by the question, "How do feed all the people"

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While not having purchased "An Omnivore's Dilemma", waiting for a loaner, I have but one interesting point. Americans spend less as a percentage of income on food than any other nation on Earth, roughly 7%. Other "First World" countries spend closer to 17% on food. Conversely we spend 19-26% on Health care, versus 8-9% in Europe. This is based on GDP figures, so the socialized medicine argument is invalid.

This suggests a connection between food production practices in the US and overall health, compared to similar countries with healthier food production.

Nothing is more difficult than finding healthy options for a family to eat. It takes time and effort to shop well, and more time to cook and prepare meals. Everyone can get sucked into the fast and easy solutions especially with kids in the house and the long hours of work and the emphasis placed on workplace success(interesting byproduct of the free market and protestant work ethic). Look at the skyrocketing percentage of obese children, it is a terrible almost criminal problem. I know my girls love McDonald's fries, I love McDonalds fries, but the faster we wean ourselves off the agribusiness teat the better off we are going to be. Buying local and organic is not a universal panacea, the social pressures that shape the trends are myriad and span, regional, social, economic and especially political divisions, but as Cathal suggested, starting from zero a step in the right direction is infinitely better than no attempt at all.

I know it's expensive to buy local/organic/sustainable we struggle with it from a business standpoint like a lot of chefs and like a lot of families do, but an attempt should be made by all who can. I recently had a discussion with my wife about focusing on what we buy and where we buy it and how we can make a couple of sacrifices to cover the increased cost of buying the foodstuffs that are best for us and our girls, difficult but attainable. We'll see how it shakes out for us.

I know I've rambled a bit, but the last thing I'll mention is what a philosophy prof. mentioned to me some years back, that Western philosophy was shaped by the question why, whereas Chinese philosophy has been shaped by the question, "How do feed all the people"

How, indeed!

I can't recommend this book enough! I'm not even 1/3 of the way through it, and I already understand why, no matter how healthy we think our diets are in the US, we can't seem to lose weight or be as healthy as we should be. Most of the things we've been taught are "good for us," actually aren't what they seem.

Eating organic/local/sustainable food is not the easy path, and in this discussion we have acknowledged that it is not the path for everyone. I'm aiming to follow it more and more as I learn more about it.

It's interesting to me, and probably no coincidence, that the top chefs in the area have recognized it and are pursuing it.

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The somewhat adversarial nature of the dialogue above, I think, has to do with the conviction of some that the "eat local sustainably grown food" position is somehow elitist and indulgent, and that only the rich can afford to eat that way, since the food sold directly from farmer to consumer is often more expensive than that at the typical supermarket. Michael Pollan and others have explicated the reasons for that, and the consequences of the pernicious government subsidizing of cheap corn. It's hard to separate out the concept of the difference in price between cheap, mass-produced food coming out of our collective pockets as taxpayers, from the actual dollars from our paychecks and wallets which are exchanged for food, either at the supermarket or the farmers' market.

Like many trends, however, as the popularity and interest grows, and demand for "green" food increases, more farmers will embrace the philosophy and methodology. There is also the possibility that agricultural land near cities may develop more value for sustainable market food production and thereby slightly less pressure will exist on the same land for suburban housing. More demand and more supply will inevitably lead to lower prices, and more availability of this high quality food to those with less income.

I would point out, however, that several of the farmers at the Dupont Circle market accept "food stamps, " so the very poorest among us can purchase some of this high quality food, if they are so inclined.

That leaves those of us who barely cling to the middle class. I have to say that I cannot afford for my family to eat every meal exclusively of locally grown and artisanally produced food. But I try to buy one chicken or pork chop or package of sausages every week from Bev Eggleston. And a dozen eggs from another farmer and vegetables and fruits from others. I try to spread the food dollars I have, to as many of the farmers I respect as possible. Because I believe that what they are doing benefits us all in ways that are global and personal, and because their food tastes better. I am lucky, in that I know how to cook. This is really turning out to be a priceless skill, because I am able to take advantage of the raw materials available in ways that prople who don't know how to cook cannot. The result is that because I can cook, I do. And although I buy $3 eggs instead of 79 cent eggs, I don't buy much in the way of value-added food or processed food. And we don't often eat in restaurants. So it balances out, somehow. If cheapness were the only issue, as far as the food choices I make, I would spend less on food than I do. But it isn't and never has been. I suspect that's the way it is for many people. It depends a lot on choices. Investing some time and labor in preparing a meal from raw ingredients, whether corporate or sustainably grown vs. paying someone else to do part/all. At all points of the financial curve, whether one is poor, middle-income or wealthy there are choices to be made.

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Well, you have convinced me to read this one. I finished Heat and have started on Bourdain's A Cook's Tour, which I picked up at Porcupine's Flea Market. The issues of "authenticity" and local products come up in both. Ever since reading Fast Food Nation when it was first published, I have refused to set foot in a McDonalds.

To follow up on Brendan's remarks: The City Paper a couple of years ago had a cover story on the difficulties of finding healthy food in the poorest part of DC; to my knowledge, Ward 8 still doesn't have a supermarket. A dietician was having to work with obese, pre-diabetic kids over in that part of town and finally quit because she had no way to help them eat an appropriate diet. Fresh food is simply not available, while fast food is everywhere. This is also combined with the low percentage of people with their own transportation, who can travel outside their neighborhoods to shop for food.

Aside from the time it takes (or seems to an awful lot of people) to prepare meals from scratch, there is the time it takes to shop for the good stuff--not to mention the cost of it. The fact that I can walk, or take the Metro, to several farmers' markets, makes me far more advantaged than most people.

All of the above to make this point: while we should, indeed, promote and patronize local and artisanal foods to a far greater extent than we as a society do now, we should not ignore the boon that the availability of cheap, industrially-produced fresh food is/would be to many more people. That is to say, a peach from Chile beats an order of McD's fries any day. It can't, however, beat an in-season peach from West Virginia.

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I recognized the reference to Seinfeld. I just don't see how it applies to the discussion in this thread.

No disrespect to anyone, but it is one thing to buy the finest available products for one's restaurant, because one can simply raise one's prices. It's quite another for the home. Also, if people want Spanish Serrano Ham/Manchego Cheese, etc., these have to come from Spain. A lot of fossil fuel. Is that wrong? Want natural foods from the Amish? The drive to Amish country uses fossil fuel, unless they're driving it to you in their buggies. The fact that the US has been subsidizing/protecting the corn/agriculure industry in this country is not news. It's been going on for decades. And I'm pretty sure MacDonalds just celebrated their fiftieth anniversary. I think it's great that this book has people talking about their desire to change their behavior. I'm with you. My point, however, is that I think the foodies have gotten as bad (or worse) as the PETA types with their endless hectoring and guilt-tripping.

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... My point, however, is that I think the foodies have gotten as bad (or worse) as the PETA types with their endless hectoring and guilt-tripping.
But isn't that what it takes sometimes in order to facilitate change? How else will it happen? Perhaps the term to use should be 'educating' instead of 'hectoring'. If it weren't for groups like PETA, knowledge about the inhumane treatment of all types of animals, regardless of the industry, would likely not be available to the average person.
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But isn't that what it takes sometimes in order to facilitate change? How else will it happen? Perhaps the term to use should be 'educating' instead of 'hectoring'. If it weren't for groups like PETA, knowledge about the inhumane treatment of all types of animals, regardless of the industry, would likely not be available to the average person.

I wasn't talking about the great educational work that groups like PETA perform, I was talking about the overboard food-fascist lecturing coming from all sides. There's a huge difference. Should I take time out from mentoring disadvantaged youth to take the bus crosstown to buy a peach? There are plenty of ways to make the world a better place. People say they hate MacDonalds, but then pay for their organic, locally grown food with a Credit Card. Do you think Bank of America is doing God's work?

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Should I take time out from mentoring disadvantaged youth to take the bus crosstown to buy a peach?

People say they hate MacDonalds, but then pay for their organic, locally grown food with a Credit Card. Do you think Bank of America is doing God's work?

This is just the sort of all-or-nothing hyperbole that you are accusing others of. The magnitude of greed, environmental destruction and evil in the world, perpetrated primarily by international capitalism, is so vast that it is easy for an individual to become overwhelmed and hopeless. It doesn't help to accuse others of hypocrisy for taking what small steps they can as individuals to make a difference. You may believe that you are doing more good by mentoring an inner-city youth than someone else who is buying food from a local organic grower rather than sending the same dollars to ADM or Beatrice Foods, but why does there need to be a contest? Both are good, small things to do. Why not take the disadvantaged youth on a bus with you, and take him/her to the farmers' market and let them experience something about real food, how it tastes and where it comes from?

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I recently had a discussion with my wife about focusing on what we buy and where we buy it and how we can make a couple of sacrifices to cover the increased cost of buying the foodstuffs that are best for us and our girls, difficult but attainable. We'll see how it shakes out for us.
I'd be interested in hearing how you've been able to work that out.

One of the reasons our meals are from Giant more often than the farmer's market is cost. I am staying home to take care of the kids. We could afford to eat all organic if I worked, but for right now we buy organic when we can and concentrate on making good meals for the kids with what we can afford - nothing processed and very little "fast food". It's a choice I am willing to make.

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Why not take the disadvantaged youth on a bus with you, and take him/her to the farmers' market and let them experience something about real food, how it tastes and where it comes from?
Better yet-let's get them working on the farm or at the farmers' market.

Seems like it's time for my classic blueberry story. I have spent almost a decade teaching inner city kids. In every school I teach I find kids who do not know what a blueberry is. They know the artificial flavoring blueblerry, but they had no idea it was an actual fruit. After a handful most are usually hooked and then dissapointed because I can't afford to bring them blueberries whenever they are requested. This year the same thing happened with edamame.

At the Mt. Pleasant farmer's market many of the vendors take food stamps. You have pretty much every income level shopping for the same food. I don't think that those using food stamps are spending $10 for three containers for berries but they are buying produce. A couple of weeks ago the line at the stand selling squash with the blossoms attached was the longest one there and just as many food stamps were being used as dollars. It can be done, it's just not easy. I should also note that the prices at Mt. Pleasant are usually lower than at other markets.

Does anyone have a copy they can lend me?

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This is just the sort of all-or-nothing hyperbole that you are accusing others of. The magnitude of greed, environmental destruction and evil in the world, perpetrated primarily by international capitalism, is so vast that it is easy for an individual to become overwhelmed and hopeless. It doesn't help to accuse others of hypocrisy for taking what small steps they can as individuals to make a difference. You may believe that you are doing more good by mentoring an inner-city youth than someone else who is buying food from a local organic grower rather than sending the same dollars to ADM or Beatrice Foods, but why does there need to be a contest? Both are good, small things to do. Why not take the disadvantaged youth on a bus with you, and take him/her to the farmers' market and let them experience something about real food, how it tastes and where it comes from?

I'm sorry, but I believe you missed my point. I purposely purchased Virginia mozzarella and tomatoes the other day at WF, and actually they were both cheaper alternatives (and very good). I believe in small personal acts; I'm not of the school that says you have to be perfect to be good, that if you're a vegetarian you can't wear leather, etc. I accuse no one of hypocrisy. It just seems that we are being beaten about the face for preparing our dinner how we like it, and many of the posts here illustrate that point. As far as the International Capitalist Conspiracy, I'll leave that one to Ayn Rand.

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I wasn't talking about the great educational work that groups like PETA perform, I was talking about the overboard food-fascist lecturing coming from all sides. There's a huge difference. Should I take time out from mentoring disadvantaged youth to take the bus crosstown to buy a peach? There are plenty of ways to make the world a better place. People say they hate MacDonalds, but then pay for their organic, locally grown food with a Credit Card. Do you think Bank of America is doing God's work?

Thank you. You make sense to me.

PS: The fact that you spell McDonald's wrong is hot. I like it.

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Not specifically about the book, but this seemed like the best place to post this:

NBC4 just ran a segment in their "Going Green" series about sustainability and area restaurants buying from local producers. The two restaurants they mentioned were The Blue Duck Tavern and Agraria. It's not available online yet, but probably will be found at this link later today or tomorrow.

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Not specifically about the book, but this seemed like the best place to post this:

NBC4 just ran a segment in their "Going Green" series about sustainability and area restaurants buying from local producers. The two restaurants they mentioned were The Blue Duck Tavern and Agraria. It's not available online yet, but probably will be found at this link later today or tomorrow.

they can single out two restaurants, but buying from local producers is fairly extensive in restaurants in this area and they tend to be the places that are putting the best-tasting food on the table.

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So, it's been six months since the flurry of posts regarding The Omnivore's Dilemma. I'm curious as to what long-term impact, if any, the book has had on your food buying behavior.

  • Were your increased expenditures at the farmers' market sustained over time?
  • Have you found it difficult to maintain the resolve to distinguish big (industrial) organic from little organic?
  • Do you still find yourself patronizing restaurants because of their food sourcing as well as their cooking?
  • What purveyors and restaurants have you settled on as most agreeable with your worldview?

I really would love to hear what happened as a result of your reading the book and talking about it at length back in July.

I bought the book in August, read about fifty pages, and then got sidetracked with other titles. I picked it back up over the holidays and was transfixed. My commitment to local, sustainable, and humane food production is stronger than ever, and I want to make food choices that will both bring me pleasure and do as little harm as possible. I hope to increase the popportion of local, sustainable, humanely produced food in my diet from 20 percent to about 85 percent. I expect doing so will be time consuming, effort intensive, and expensive--not an insignificant trial.

I hope your success stories will help sustain my motivation and that sharing your accumulated experiences will make this task less daunting.

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So, it's been six months since the flurry of posts regarding The Omnivore's Dilemma. I'm curious as to what long-term impact, if any, the book has had on your food buying behavior.
  • Were your increased expenditures at the farmers' market sustained over time?
  • Have you found it difficult to maintain the resolve to distinguish big (industrial) organic from little organic?
  • Do you still find yourself patronizing restaurants because of their food sourcing as well as their cooking?
  • What purveyors and restaurants have you settled on as most agreeable with your worldview?

I STILL haven't finished the bloody thing, but I am close (damn you Harry Potter... :D ). That being said, I think the first section, about industrial agriculture, has made the biggest impact on me and my buying/eating habits. I have really tried to only buy my meat and poultry from small, local producers. This is a little more difficult with many of the markets that I frequent being closed for the season, but I have a decent supply of things in the freezer. The industrial organic section also made me think long and hard about the produce that I buy. Obviously, seasonal limitations make this harder at this time of year, but I try to do what I can - buying local and direct from growers as much as possible.

I'm fascinated by the foraging (especially for mushrooms) in the 'hunter-gatherer' section of the book. (Our own zoramargolis also inspires me with her tales of what she finds in the parklands around the District.) Maybe someone will be generous enough to take me out looking for morels in the spring :lol: - that's something I'd really like to try.

Thanksgiving dinner was a free range Smith Meadows turkey and our belated (last night) Christmas dinner was a wonderfully flavorful Polyface Farms chicken. Sure, they cost more, but it was well worth it to me, both from a cost perspective and a commitment to making (what I think are) the right choices.

When I go out, I do think a bit more about where I eat and where they get their food from - in some cases it makes a difference. For example, I'd never go to Arthur Treacher's or Long John Silver's but I WILL go to Eamonn's. I know how carefully they source and prepare their fish. I'm still not sure I buy the claim that it's "healthy" :P , but I know their fish is a lot better than what I'd get at the places mentioned. I avoid fast food more than I did before - combine reading the book with my recent viewing of "Super Size Me" and I don't know when/if I will head to McDonald's again. I really enjoyed a meal in San Francisco where the menu read like our visit to the market that very morning - I'd seen every producer mentioned (or their fruits, vegetables, or meat) just a few hours before - I'd love to have that experience more often.

I haven't quantified the changes in my spending habits or the percentage of my diet that is sustainable or organic. There definitely is a difference in both and that is very much due to having read The Omnivore's Dilemma.

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So, it's been six months since the flurry of posts regarding The Omnivore's Dilemma. I'm curious as to what long-term impact, if any, the book has had on your food buying behavior.
  • Were your increased expenditures at the farmers' market sustained over time?
  • Have you found it difficult to maintain the resolve to distinguish big (industrial) organic from little organic?
  • Do you still find yourself patronizing restaurants because of their food sourcing as well as their cooking?
  • What purveyors and restaurants have you settled on as most agreeable with your worldview?

I really would love to hear what happened as a result of your reading the book and talking about it at length back in July.

I bought the book in August, read about fifty pages, and then got sidetracked with other titles. I picked it back up over the holidays and was transfixed. My commitment to local, sustainable, and humane food production is stronger than ever, and I want to make food choices that will both bring me pleasure and do as little harm as possible. I hope to increase the popportion of local, sustainable, humanely produced food in my diet from 20 percent to about 85 percent. I expect doing so will be time consuming, effort intensive, and expensive--not an insignificant trial.

I hope your success stories will help sustain my motivation and that sharing your accumulated experiences will make this task less daunting.

six months and this book is still very much around, one of the ten best of the year according to the new york times, and i suppose it is making some difference in how people eat, though i am guessing not much. (in st augustine, recently, in purportedly the best grocery store in the city, i realized what people are up against, although they did stock organic milk and there were a few farm outlets around. from a long list of ingredients, i had to settle for what i regarded as inferior products, with the lone, and surprising, exception of one decent bottle of olive oil. the food industry, in the meantime, is catching on. i couldn't find italian tuna in st. augustine, but i could find bumble bee packed in olive oil. there was no good sea salt, but morton's makes it, etc.)

nina planck's real foods was more influential for me, because it is more practical, and i have been eating more cheese and dairy products as a result. we also started buying some meat (bacon, chicken) at the farmers market. before that, most of our meals were vegetarian, sometimes fish, although i have been veering back to mostly vegetables because that is what i am most familiar with. we eat more than our share of pasta, which isn't especially good, she says, if you are made to sit in your chair all day, and although i know whole wheat would be healthier, i just haven't been able to make the transition. i am staying away from non-fermented soy products, which i once thought maybe were healthy. we try to buy only local milk, or at least always organic, and i would be the first one in line for unpasteurized milk if they sold it at the farmers market. i know there are ways to get it, but i haven't bothered (yet) pursuing them. the issue of corn-fed beef, a major one for michael pollan, has added to my confusion about eating beef. all i know about beef is that if you follow the directions, marcella hazan has some great ways of preparing it. one of my brothers, who lives in another part of the country, has stopped eating beef entirely because he is afraid of mad cow disease. our father died of holes in his brain, and he is hoping to avoid a similar fate, although i confided to him that i know there are already gaping vacancies in mine most likely not related to the consumption of cow. much of my diet today, to a significant result of what i have read about buying and eating local, contradicts my doctor's advice, and i suppose i will be forced to face reality the next time i allow him to draw blood, hopefully sometime in the far distant future.

cafe st. ex seems to be a good place for pursuing what is advocated in these books, and there are others. buck's and comet have started doing a better job lately of marketing themselves as friends of the farmer, although the prices are high, and we have received chilly receptions the last few times we have been there, i don't know exactly why, maybe for perceiving their latest enterprise a bit differently than how they would like it to be seen, or for comparing a serving size to my big toes.

our food budget has gone up quite a bit over the past year, although we haven't changed our buying habits much. the bulk of our shopping was already local. but the prices have gone up, a lot, as the prices of fuel and other things have ascended. i still think you can buy food responsibly on a budget, if good local food is available, and you have enough time, and you train your children. to save money, we are buying the jumbo french roast coffee at trader joe's and have cut back on wine, which sounds sort of marie antoinette school (and the savings have been offset by moving to more expensive champaigne.)

this winter, so far, has not been auspicious for the farmers, who, among other things, are worrying that it has not been cold enough to kill off insects and viruses.

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