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Service: How Bad is Too Bad?


crackers

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I don't think anyone should ever try to get someone fired. This happend a few weeks ago during Tom's chat, when someone had issues with a server at Cafe Milano. The very next week one of the managers responded to say that the server had been fired....shameful

Do any of you restaurant owners and managers send waitstaff on their way because of online comments about their poor service? (Or - heh- online comments made by the waitstaff? Not that that ever happens.) Has it ever been the last straw?

Not all that long ago, a Sietsema review got one waitress fired at Charleston when he noted she had made an inappropriate remark.

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Do any of you restaurant owners and managers send waitstaff on their way because of online comments about their poor service? (Or - heh- online comments made by the waitstaff? Not that that ever happens.) Has it ever been the last straw?

Not all that long ago, a Sietsema review got one waitress fired at Charleston when he noted she had made an inappropriate remark.

I did not know she got fired of this. I would have a hard time sleeping if I were Tom knowing this. I just read the review again, and the remark could have been left out. I wonder how many other people have gotten fired because of Tom, or even this board.

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I can think of at least two. The Notti Bianchi issue referred to above and I think someone from Dino's got the boot for something posted here, wrangler guy I think.

Wranglerguy was asked to not participate on the board because he was not representing Dino well in that he was in violation of the rules of the board. Hell I didn't know wranglerguy was my GM until he had made several posts. He left Dino of his own free will and is now at Poste.

I would never fire someone from a single customer comment no matter how it was delivered. When we have terminated folk for service issues, the maor part of the issue was always behavior we witnessed. Customer comments are a part of it but unless we got a rash of htem in a row for very specific behavior, we would not take action on comments alone.

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I think the only thing that would cause some to get fired after a SINGLE INCIDENT would be something that would be quite obvious to the management at the time (think defecating on a table at 7 on a Saturday), and not something that they wouldn't find out about until reading it in a message board.

Any manager worth his/her salt would know the employees well enough to know whether a comment on a message board or even in person warrants a disciplinary action. I get complaints every once in a while about my employees, but I know that most of them are smart enough and such exemplary customer serivcepeople that it would be the customer, not the staffmember, who should be fired.

I would NEVER want someone's firing on my conscience, no matter how much they deserved it.

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Do any of you restaurant owners and managers send waitstaff on their way because of online comments about their poor service? (Or - heh- online comments made by the waitstaff? Not that that ever happens.) Has it ever been the last straw?

Not all that long ago, a Sietsema review got one waitress fired at Charleston when he noted she had made an inappropriate remark.

According to the owners, the hostess, (not a server), was fired because the Sietsema incident was merely the last in a long string of unprofessional acts.

Given the difficulty of finding good help in the restaurant business or any business, I suspect that almost anyone kicked curb-wise over a on-line complaint had it coming sooner or later.

But there's a larger issue. Should a manager or owner jeapardize the employment and welfare of the many other restaurant employees in order to protect one otherwise competent server who fucked up just once but in a very public way?

There was a much-publicized incident a few years back at an Annapolis power restaurant in which a host (as I recall) was accused of racism by a member of the Maryland Assembly. Politics being politics and the restaurant business being the restaurant business, the maitre d' was let go. I have no idea if the guy was a low-grade racist or just missed a beat that day -- I've been around enough to know that both are possibilities -- but was the owner obligated to hold onto this guy if it meant jeapardizing the incomes of the restaurants other 30 employees who have bills to pay and kids to feed, and the return of the investors who staked him? Or, is part of being in the public service industry an acceptance of the fact sometimes you just don't have a choice?

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I can think of at least two. The Notti Bianchi issue referred to above and I think someone from Dino's got the boot for something posted here, wrangler guy I think.

that notti bianche guy was not fired because of the breast feeding incident - there were other reasons why it was time for he and notti to part ways. in fact, the parting of ways did not occur until at least three months after that incident.

i would also like to mention that the gentleman that made the unfortunate reference to breast feeding has grown into a very good restaurant manager and one with whom i would be proud to work again.

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Do any of you restaurant owners and managers send waitstaff on their way because of online comments about their poor service? (Or - heh- online comments made by the waitstaff? Not that that ever happens.) Has it ever been the last straw?

Not all that long ago, a Sietsema review got one waitress fired at Charleston when he noted she had made an inappropriate remark.

"Do restaurant owners and managers send waitstaff on their way because of online comments?"

No.

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"Do restaurant owners and managers send waitstaff on their way because of online comments?"

No.

I truly believe that it's a flaw in management to look to a forum like this vs. taking inventory of what can be seen with one's own beady eyes to come to such harsh conclusions. In fact it's kinda yucky. The credibility of people is much greater in person, I find. THE END.

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According to the owners, the hostess, (not a server), was fired because the Sietsema incident was merely the last in a long string of unprofessional acts.

Given the difficulty of finding good help in the restaurant business or any business, I suspect that almost anyone kicked curb-wise over a on-line complaint had it coming sooner or later.

But there's a larger issue. Should a manager or owner jeapardize the employment and welfare of the many other restaurant employees in order to protect one otherwise competent server who fucked up just once but in a very public way?

There was a much-publicized incident a few years back at an Annapolis power restaurant in which a host (as I recall) was accused of racism by a member of the Maryland Assembly. Politics being politics and the restaurant business being the restaurant business, the maitre d' was let go. I have no idea if the guy was a low-grade racist or just missed a beat that day -- I've been around enough to know that both are possibilities -- but was the owner obligated to hold onto this guy if it meant jeapardizing the incomes of the restaurants other 30 employees who have bills to pay and kids to feed, and the return of the investors who staked him? Or, is part of being in the public service industry an acceptance of the fact sometimes you just don't have a choice?

With regards to the Charleston incident, that female was not even an employeee of the restaurant, she was a friend helping out the restaurant in a pinch.

With regards to the incident in Annapolis and the Maitre D' there are two sides to every story, and unless anyone here actually witnessed it, we will never know what truly happened. The guy could have been a total idiot, and the patron a total cheapskate: its a crapshoot and the whole issue could have been blown out of proportion. Bottom line I think those in the hospitality industry should be seen and less heard when performing on the clock, unless the guest invites the interaction. Remember, someone has to be the professional. When your off the clock, talk away about how cheap or rude a guest was, amongst your own, until one of them betrays your trust. If you believe his version, the restaurants actions reflects the sad state of our bullshit politically correct society and having to walk around on eggshells due to lawsuits and whatnot. If the restaurant had the balls to stand by its employee and support him, there would be no issue. They had every choice in the world and made theirs. Would a business have suffered financially like you suggested- probably not, unless the owners were total idiots, with a substandard product, the restaurant would have continued on.( I take that back since most chain restaurants are still in business and you open up one if you really want to make money in this business, rather than get by for a few years till the rent kills you business and drains you financially) :) This issuse was a race card issue that gets thrown around every day if you don't watch what and how you say things. With regards to firing people, especially in DC, do you know how ridiculously hard it can be? Race, gender, sexual-orientation- all off limits and will be thrown back in your face with any penny-ante attorney representing an employee who actually gets fired because they actually suck at their job. Ultimately, its getting so complicated to live in this country, watching what and how you say something to someone and being afraid of getting sued for looking at someone the wrong way or hurting their feelings. Did you hear the one about giving trophy's to all the little league teams, so their feelings would'nt be hurt? Or Not just giving RED stars in school, because little johnny would be traumatized if he did'nt get a colored star similar to our nations threat level color coded chart signifying a mediocre job. WE reward incompetence so that someone won't file a lawsuit or have their feelings hurt. As a result, we are slowing becoming a nation of pussies, where the freedom of speech is slowly becoming just the opposite. I now give my soapbox back to those brave individuals who actually express an opinion and aren't afraid of saying that their server was not that good. :) Godspeed and bless little SURI-HOLMES-CRUISE-

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I truly believe that it's a flaw in management to look to a forum like this vs. taking inventory of what can be seen with one's own beady eyes to come to such harsh conclusions. In fact it's kinda yucky. The credibility of people is much greater in person, I find. THE END.
Something tells me that, in the spectrum of Internet-aired issues that can keep customers away from restaurants, a story of mediocre service is much less of a mortal wound than management attacks on the folks who got the mediocre service.
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With regards to the Charleston incident, that female was not even an employeee of the restaurant, she was a friend helping out the restaurant in a pinch.

With regards to the incident in Annapolis and the Maitre D' there are two sides to every story, and unless anyone here actually witnessed it, we will never know what truly happened. The guy could have been a total idiot, and the patron a total cheapskate: its a crapshoot and the whole issue could have been blown out of proportion. Bottom line I think those in the hospitality industry should be seen and less heard when performing on the clock, unless the guest invites the interaction. Remember, someone has to be the professional. When your off the clock, talk away about how cheap or rude a guest was, amongst your own, until one of them betrays your trust. If you believe his version, the restaurants actions reflects the sad state of our bullshit politically correct society and having to walk around on eggshells due to lawsuits and whatnot. If the restaurant had the balls to stand by its employee and support him, there would be no issue. They had every choice in the world and made theirs. Would a business have suffered financially like you suggested- probably not, unless the owners were total idiots, with a substandard product, the restaurant would have continued on.( I take that back since most chain restaurants are still in business and you open up one if you really want to make money in this business, rather than get by for a few years till the rent kills you business and drains you financially) :) This issuse was a race card issue that gets thrown around every day if you don't watch what and how you say things. With regards to firing people, especially in DC, do you know how ridiculously hard it can be? Race, gender, sexual-orientation- all off limits and will be thrown back in your face with any penny-ante attorney representing an employee who actually gets fired because they actually suck at their job. Ultimately, its getting so complicated to live in this country, watching what and how you say something to someone and being afraid of getting sued for looking at someone the wrong way or hurting their feelings. Did you hear the one about giving trophy's to all the little league teams, so their feelings would'nt be hurt? Or Not just giving RED stars in school, because little johnny would be traumatized if he did'nt get a colored star similar to our nations threat level color coded chart signifying a mediocre job. WE reward incompetence so that someone won't file a lawsuit or have their feelings hurt. As a result, we are slowing becoming a nation of pussies, where the freedom of speech is slowly becoming just the opposite. I now give my soapbox back to those brave individuals who actually express an opinion and aren't afraid of saying that their server was not that good. :) Godspeed and bless little SURI-HOLMES-CRUISE-

I assume "happyguy" handle is ironic.

Given that the owner of Charleston responded to a thread on "the incident" in part by saying (on a DR thread): "I can only hope that people might understand that the thoughtless (and offensive, without a doubt) comment from one young hostess that was not remotely based in fact or policy is exactly the kind of thing that forced me to remove her from her employ at Charleston," I'm guessing she was indeed an employee.

Regarding the Annapolis incident, I looked at that rather closely because I had a friend who wrote about it for the Post. The restaurant owner did indeed fear significant financial damage as Annapolis during session is an incestuous whirl of dinners, lunches, banquets etc. among legislators, lobbyists and various hangers-on. Had the incident morphed into a boycotte by the Black Caucus and -- almost certainly -- various Democrats he would have lost a great deal of money, as would his employees.

It would appear from the bulk of your talk radio script that you sympathize with the employee (though the Assemblywoman who complained was not un-credible, either) and are skeptical of discrimination complaints (and youth league soccer, attorneys, liberals and quite possibly those who would floridate the water supply), but my question still stands: at what point does loyalty to other employees who might be harmed equal loyalty to the employee whose actions have (inadvertantly or not) harmed the establishment?

[This is not to say that I favor wholesale firings for perceived slights, that I don't respect managers in every profession who stand by their people or that I think the Annapolis affair was well-handled.]

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If you believe his version, the restaurants actions reflects the sad state of our bullshit politically correct society and having to walk around on eggshells due to lawsuits and whatnot. If the restaurant had the balls to stand by its employee and support him, there would be no issue. They had every choice in the world and made theirs.
I disagree. Avoiding thoughtless, derogetory comments is essential to customer service. If you can't control what comes out of your mouth then perhaps you should choose a different line of work. Management can, and should, fire employees that may hurt their business. I am talking specifically about words, not impressions that some customer might have had that they were being slighted.

(signed Heather, 9-year customer service veteran)

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I assume "happyguy" handle is ironic.

Given that the owner of Charleston responded to a thread on "the incident" in part by saying (on a DR thread): "I can only hope that people might understand that the thoughtless (and offensive, without a doubt) comment from one young hostess that was not remotely based in fact or policy is exactly the kind of thing that forced me to remove her from her employ at Charleston," I'm guessing she was indeed an employee.

Regarding the Annapolis incident, I looked at that rather closely because I had a friend who wrote about it for the Post. The restaurant owner did indeed fear significant financial damage as Annapolis during session is an incestuous whirl of dinners, lunches, banquets etc. among legislators, lobbyists and various hangers-on. Had the incident morphed into a boycotte by the Black Caucus and -- almost certainly -- various Democrats he would have lost a great deal of money, as would his employees.

It would appear from the bulk of your talk radio script that you sympathize with the employee (though the Assemblywoman who complained was not un-credible, either) and are skeptical of discrimination complaints (and youth league soccer, attorneys, liberals and quite possibly those who would floridate the water supply), but my question still stands: at what point does loyalty to other employees who might be harmed equal loyalty to the employee whose actions have (inadvertantly or not) harmed the establishment?

[This is not to say that I favor wholesale firings for perceived slights, that I don't respect managers in every profession who stand by their people or that I think the Annapolis affair was well-handled.]

Where can I find information on this Annaplois incident. I want to read it before I respond to happyguy's claim that this was a "race card" issue, which I think is off base

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Where can I find information on this Annaplois incident. I want to read it before I respond to happyguy's claim that this was a "race card" issue, which I think is off base

Glad Crackers found it, I was having trouble searching.

However, I did not bring it up to re-argue a case that is now several (many?) years old, and will not be resolved in this forum. I brought it up as an example of how an employee's actions might (advertantly or inadvertantly) put management into a difficult spot.

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I do agree that words and insulting remarks should be cause for dismissal, but inferances from actions can be tainted towards the position you are coming from and should be disregarded. (Hint, Hint) In this case, I hope Bello won his lawsuit, but I doubt it.

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This was old, however I understand both sides.

I think it's an eloquent and sad demonstration of happyguy's original point. Not only was the race card played, it was flashed about with abandon. I would be curious to learn how the lawsuit turned out.

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Crackers or Jacques or any of you fine litigators on board, what was the outcome of the Annapolis case?

I do agree that words and insulting remarks should be cause for dismissal, but inferances from actions can be tainted towards the position you are coming from and should be disregarded. (Hint, Hint)

In this case, I hope Bello won his lawsuit, but I doubt it.

The sort of people who would metaphorically make a federal case out of and literally make a state case out of encountering someone on a bad day in a restaurant are exactly the sort of self-righteous and selfishly-entitled people who deserve, not poor customer service, but NO customer service.

I have ten years experience in some form of customer service industry (I consider ANY job where you actually talk to other people to be customer service!), and I have never "lost it" with a client or given them a hard time because they were an asshole. I will, however, give better service to people who treat me like a human being - I'll help them faster, spend more time on the phone with them, etc.

The fact that Griffith would, not cease being upset, but rather take things further after Bello apologized and leapt through hoops to bury the hatchet makes me want to become a hermit.

The reason jerks exist is because they will sue you if you ever try to do anything about the fact that they're jerks.

Firing Bello was a big decision for the restaurant. Had they not, I don't think their business would have been hurt significantly, but the whole issue would have escalated and turned even uglier, because Griffith certainly wasn't backing down, and Bello already had. That's what happens with conflicts... it takes one person to be the BIGGER person and do the right thing to stop said conflict. The restaurant had no choice.

PS - This issue really strikes a major anger nerve and sets off some deep feelings I have about assholes. I can see this discussion rapidly turning ugly. I think we may want to curtail discussion of this article for the time being.

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You know, I'm kind of sorry I brought the case up.

I was, as I have tried several times to make clear, interested in the hypothetical question of when a restaurant might have to fire someone because of the negative publicity they generated, whether that publicity was justified or not. I think that was the point of the thread and it's an interesting dilemma, and not only in the restaurant business (though, coming out of politics, I'm a little quicker to throw people over the side; in politics, we shoot the wounded).

I in no way meant to inspire a bunch of rants by people who know nothing about the incident save what was written up in one newspaper article, and have never met the people involved nor eaten in the restaurant named.

I thought one of the points of Landrum's recent posts was to try to avoid uninformed speculation.

And, call me a bleeding heart, but the "playing the race card" crap strikes me as deeply unfortunate.

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You know, all the recent negativity on this board is really a drag and causing me to lose interest. Is there any way we can get back to "food" discussion?
Agreed. That's why I prefer the Shopping & Cooking forum. :)

Then again, maybe it's all a ploy to GET you to lose interest so other people have a chance to start rivaling your post count. :)

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My wife and I were sitting at the bar area in popular restaurant in DC one night a couple of Restaurant Weeks ago waiting for our table, there were about 4 other groups who were also waiting on tables. They were behind on reservations so they instructed everyone to go to the bar and have a drink. The manager came back and spoke with every group one on one, except my wife and I, to let them know what the situation was with the tables and why they were running behind, and that the drinks would be on the house. We were sitting at a table near the door, so he walked pass us coming and going, so I know he saw us. Thoughts of racism danced through my head, although the manager was an African American just like me and my wife, as I watched him all night go from table to table asking others how everything was going, once again by passing our table. The waitress on the other hand was a star that night. We have yet to return to this restaurant. I was not expecting any special treatment, just the same level of service offered to anyone else.

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Condescending Waiters

Have you ever wanted to punch a waiter in the mouth? I'm not a violent person, but I came close to doing just that this weekend. I'm not a very big guy, but I can eat a lot of food when I'm hungry. People are always laughing about how someone as skinny as me can eat so much food. So my friends and I stop by a local eatery for dinner this past Saturday. I'm starving, so I ordered the 24oz prime rib. The prime rib and sides were delicious, and I had no problems finishing everything on my plate. When the waiter came by to take my plate, he says in the most condescending voice, "Wow, someone must have been hungry. You did a great job finishing up everything on your plate." Imagine the tone of a mothers voice when her 2 year old eats all of their veggies. It was that kind of tone. All the guys I was eating with started ribbing me, naturally. I just laughed along, annoyed but not that upset. So I'm still hungry after all that food. My friend next to me had ordered the tuna salad and had only eaten half of it. I ask him if he's planning on taking the rest home with him. He says no and offers it to me. I finish up the salad just as the waiter comes by to clear up the rest of the plate. His eyes get huge and he says "Someone must have a tape worm." All of my friends start cracking up. I'm turning beat red by now. I'm shocked the waiter didn't lean over an pat me on the head or pinch my cheek and tell me what I good boy I was. Am I crazy for wanting to punch that waiter?

A.Tom Sietsema writes:

Note to waiters: Never, ever comment on how much someone has consumed. You never know if you might be hitting all the wrong buttons.

Note to poster: Your server was waaaay out of line, especially with the comment about the tape worm. (Gross. ) Are you still feeling Jet Blue-ish?

Obnoxious waiter...

After "Wow, someone must have been hungry." I would have answered "Wow, someone doesn't want a tip." If you waited until the second line, "Someone must have a tapeworm" it still would have worked.

A waiter must not have any personality and assume all diners have no sense of humor like this chatter? Given that the chatter's friends all laughed, I think it's the chatter that's overly sensitive and has anger management issues. These dudes better not go to a a NYC deli.

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Back in college, I'm waiting on a large party of colleagues, clearly not familiar with each other outside of work. They're friendly and loud, not to the point of bothering other tables, they're just having a good time. The conversation at one point when I'm taking orders is that a number of them grew up on farms. One of them asks me, and I say that I've always been a city boy.

Several trips back to the table later, when I'm checking on drink refills, I quip "so, how are my country bumpkins doing?" I got a couple of groans, a lot of laughs, and one of the biggest percentage tips I've ever gotten.

You have to have the pulse of the table, but even then a joke like that is a risk. The waiter took the risk once, got a laugh, so went there again. Probably thought he was heading for a big tip keeping the table entertained - in fact, sounds like this guys buddies might have tipped well anyway!

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A waiter must not have any personality and assume all diners have no sense of humor like this chatter? Given that the chatter's friends all laughed, I think it's the chatter that's overly sensitive and has anger management issues. These dudes better not go to a a NYC deli.

It's out of line to comment about how much a customer polishes off, or how much they order for that matter. Now if a customer has barely touched their meal, it's appropriate for a server to inquire about the customer's satisfaction.

A condescending comment about his eating a large meal is bad enough, but the tape worm put it over the top.

This server seriously needs to edit himself and think before speaking.

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A waiter must not have any personality and assume all diners have no sense of humor like this chatter?

Or perhaps the chatter is sick to death of the picking, and tolerates from his friends because they have other redeeming qualities. Being teased by a waiter who you do not know is a bit beyond.

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Back in college, I'm waiting on a large party of colleagues, clearly not familiar with each other outside of work. They're friendly and loud, not to the point of bothering other tables, they're just having a good time. The conversation at one point when I'm taking orders is that a number of them grew up on farms. One of them asks me, and I say that I've always been a city boy.

Several trips back to the table later, when I'm checking on drink refills, I quip "so, how are my country bumpkins doing?" I got a couple of groans, a lot of laughs, and one of the biggest percentage tips I've ever gotten.

You have to have the pulse of the table, but even then a joke like that is a risk. The waiter took the risk once, got a laugh, so went there again. Probably thought he was heading for a big tip keeping the table entertained - in fact, sounds like this guys buddies might have tipped well anyway!

The humongous difference is that your table initiated the informality. The waiter doesn't make the first move.

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Back in college, I'm waiting on a large party of colleagues, clearly not familiar with each other outside of work. They're friendly and loud, not to the point of bothering other tables, they're just having a good time. The conversation at one point when I'm taking orders is that a number of them grew up on farms. One of them asks me, and I say that I've always been a city boy.

Several trips back to the table later, when I'm checking on drink refills, I quip "so, how are my country bumpkins doing?" I got a couple of groans, a lot of laughs, and one of the biggest percentage tips I've ever gotten.

You have to have the pulse of the table, but even then a joke like that is a risk. The waiter took the risk once, got a laugh, so went there again. Probably thought he was heading for a big tip keeping the table entertained - in fact, sounds like this guys buddies might have tipped well anyway!

You are right, waiters should pay attention to "the pulse of the table." However, I see a big difference between your encounter with the group and the waiter's behavior that generated a complaint to Sietsema. Your comments were addressed to the entire group, and, as you tell it, they started it by asking you a personal question. You were polite and "played" along, also, you did not make fun of any one person. Sietsema's chatter, according to his comment, did not solicit any comments from the waiter, who nevertheless singled him out and made fun of him and only him repeatedly. I hope that chatter prints out all relevant comments from the chat and mails them to the Restaurant 's manager. I don't think he should name the server, but he should mention the date they were there, so there is a discussion among those who worked that day.

Skipper

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You are right, waiters should pay attention to "the pulse of the table." However, I see a big difference between your encounter with the group and the waiter's behavior that generated a complaint to Sietsema. Your comments were addressed to the entire group, and, as you tell it, they started it by asking you a personal question. You were polite and "played" along, also, you did not make fun of any one person. Sietsema's chatter, according to his comment, did not solicit any comments from the waiter, who nevertheless singled him out and made fun of him and only him repeatedly. I hope that chatter prints out all relevant comments from the chat and mails them to the Restaurant 's manager. I don't think he should name the server, but he should mention the date they were there, so there is a discussion among those who worked that day.

Skipper

Good idea. Perhaps by leaving out critical details he can get four servers fired for the price of one.

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Good idea. Perhaps by leaving out critical details he can get four servers fired for the price of one.

Making a border line inappropriate comment to a customer is not egregious enough offense to get fired for, just as making fun of a customer is not appropriate behavior for a waiter. The waiter mentioned in yesterday's Sietsema's chat needs to be reminded of that. American waiters are perhaps the most overworked and underpaid waiters in the world, but with some notable exceptions most of them certainly are not the most professional waiters in the world.

The PS 7 manager's actions were hasty and perhaps self serving, who knows, restaurant got a lot of free publicity. The restaurant also lost several employees that they spent time to train. If I recall correctly, the fired waitresses were offered their jobs back, but chose not to return, (which may be a reflection on the management). I don't want anyone fired from their jobs, but my heart went to a person who went out for a meal, did what he was supposed to do - eat, but was repeatedly turned into butt of a joke by a waiter obviously oblivious that he was making the complainer uncomfortable.

Pax!

Skipper

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People are always laughing about how someone as skinny as me can eat so much food. . . My friend next to me had ordered the tuna salad and had only eaten half of it. I ask him if he's planning on taking the rest home with him.

Given that the chatter's friends all laughed, I think it's the chatter that's overly sensitive and has anger management issues.

I agree. Adding to that, it's clear this is a running joke with the chatter's friends. Odds are someone made a comment as soon as the chatter ordered the 24oz prime rib. Sounds like the guy can't stand up to his own friends, and instead vents thru Tom's chat. It's clear to me the server only continued whatever the chatter and/or his friends started.

I thought the post was a gag once he then asked for the guys leftover tuna salad. Seriously? After prime rib and sides? Kinda gross. Also, at my table, we'd be splitting the tab equally. Ordering prime rib when others are ordering sandwiches would be gaming my system, then asking for someone's leftovers would be over the top. I'll give the chatter the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the tab, but boy, what a red flag.

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Making a border line inappropriate comment to a customer is not egregious enough offense to get fired for, just as making fun of a customer is not appropriate behavior for a waiter. The waiter mentioned in yesterday's Sietsema's chat needs to be reminded of that. American waiters are perhaps the most overworked and underpaid waiters in the world, but with some notable exceptions most of them certainly are not the most professional waiters in the world.

The PS 7 manager's actions were hasty and perhaps self serving, who knows, restaurant got a lot of free publicity. The restaurant also lost several employees that they spent time to train. If I recall correctly, the fired waitresses were offered their jobs back, but chose not to return, (which may be a reflection on the management). I don't want anyone fired from their jobs, but my heart went to a person who went out for a meal, did what he was supposed to do - eat, but was repeatedly turned into butt of a joke by a waiter obviously oblivious that he was making the complainer uncomfortable.

Pax!

Skipper

So why not, if you know the name of the server, call them out for it? Maybe the manager is overzealous and fires the guy, but I highly, HIGHLY doubt that anybody loses their job over it. Meanwhile, the most that ever happens by just saying that it happened at the restaurant is that the servers are all lectured en masse before shifts, nobody cares, and everybody gets pissed because they're all being talked down to because of the actions of one person.

Meanwhile, if you say that John Doe was your server and did something wrong, management can work with that server to make sure it never happens again.

I can appreciate the thought of not wanting to specifically get somebody in trouble, but that's not your call - if it's egregious enough that management doesn't think they should be working there, then they shouldn't be working there. And at the end of the day, denying information about what made your experience poor is not constructive at all - at that point, whether you're intending to or not, you're just bitching for the sake of bitching. Think about it this way - if your steak came out well done when you ordered it medium rare, the only way that you're going to get a medium rare steak is by saying that it came out overcooked, not just simply saying "This steak isn't good." Nobody can correct a problem if they don't know what the problem is.

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Can we not at least agree here, that the main crime is putting both a prime rib, and also a tuna salad sandwich, on the same menu? Who does that?? (Seriously, there must be only one or two restaurants that do this.)

Not really important but I read "the tuna salad" and assumed it was more like a salad with tuna (seared, grilled, etc).

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I could see not complaining to the manager, which would have opened you up to further ridicule from your buddies.

I get shit all of the time from my friends. And I tolerate it, even enjoy it a bit, because they are my friends.

But if my friends asked the waiter to, say, comment on whether my tie was ugly or not, I would expect the waiter to not comment. It is not the place of a server to make negative comments to a guest, about anything. Period.

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I could see not complaining to the manager, which would have opened you up to further ridicule from your buddies.

I get shit all of the time from my friends. And I tolerate it, even enjoy it a bit, because they are my friends.

But if my friends asked the waiter to, say, comment on whether my tie was ugly or not, I would expect the waiter to not comment. It is not the place of a server to make negative comments to a guest, about anything. Period.

Somewhat OT, but a pet peeve of mine--why would you voluntarily put up with people who make you feel bad? You can't often pick your waiter, but you can pick your friends.

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I could see not complaining to the manager, which would have opened you up to further ridicule from your buddies

But chatting to Tom has value?

I have had people say that I refused to seat them after they arrived at the restaurant {in online reviews} when, in fact, they called for a reservation and we were booked. I have had people say in on line communications that we did not accommodate their request for ground floor seating when we did. All I am saying is if you want the restaurant to do something about it, talk to the manager either that night or call the next day. I am pretty much willing to do one hell of a lot to turn a customer around as long as they don't make my employees cry, use foul language etc. I want them to be happy. I have regulars who had a very poor experience on an early visit who talked to us and gave us a second chance as a result.

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