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Marinades/Salad Dressings/Brining


Demetrius

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I was in Charlottesville, Virginia this past weekend and stubbled upon a store called Oil and Vinegar http://www.oilvinegar.com/ov.nsf/home.html. After walking about sampling a portion of their olive oils and balsamic vinegars, I purchased a few items and brought them home to use.

Does anyone have any great suggestions for homemade salad dressings and/or marinades?

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I don't know if this is the right place for it, as it is not an emergency, but I am looking for brining/marinating suggestions for a 3 lb bone-in rabbit loin that I got at the market. Having never cooked rabbit before, I am looking for some prep suggestions that some of you may have used that come out good.

Just as a note, I'm planning to cook it indirectly over medium heat unless someone has a better suggestion.

Thanks for the help!

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First of all--check the recipe to see if they are recommending this method with a chuck roast. Shoulders (called chuck when discussing beef) are generally cooked in liquid. For dry roasting, unless you are doing pricey cuts like rib, loin or sirloin, you want rump or round--either top or bottom, sirloin tip or tri-tip. Eye round looks pretty, but is an inferior cut both flavor and texture-wise. There is one muscle in the chuck or seven-bone roast that is tender enough to use as a steak--it is called the "chuck eye"--if you look at a chuck roast, you can often identify a distinct, round piece of the meat. This may be the one piece of your oven roast that was tender enough to chew. Merle Ellis, in *Cutting Up in the Kitchen* suggests that you separate out this piece and save it for the grill, and cut the rest up for stew.

I have had success in using brines to give turkey and chicken better moisture and taste, but fail miserably when trying to give red meat added flavor. Are marinades a waste of time? A recent episode of America's Test Kitchen seemed to suggest as much.

In the past, I have used some combination of lemon juice, soy sauce, olive oil, etc. for chuck steak before grilling but it seems like no matter how long I keep the meat soaked (whether overnight or a couple of hours), the lack of flavor transfer remains the same.

What am I doing wrong?

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Hmm. I have the opposite problem: I struggle getting my brines to add any flavor to poultry, but have had great success with marinades.

Could it be your choice of ingredients? I realize that soy sauce is pretty full-flavored, but lemon juice and olive oil might be a bit delicate for beef. I use soy quite a bit, but also use worcestershire, balsamic vinegar, sriracha, honey, smashed garlic, onions, etc. I use olive oil as well, but never just by itself.

Also, are you really submerging the meat in the marinade? Placing the beef in a marinade "puddle" probably won't work. I like to marinade in a ziploc bag.

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In the past, I have used some combination of lemon juice, soy sauce, olive oil, etc. for chuck steak before grilling but it seems like no matter how long I keep the meat soaked (whether overnight or a couple of hours), the lack of flavor transfer remains the same.

I rarely use wet marinades for adding flavor to steak. I find a dry rub just prior to grilling adds more flavor. I make my own spice rub blend with smoked paprika, salt, black pepper, garlic powder, cumin, powdered oregano and ancho chile powder. Before grilling skirt steak for tacos, I'll smoosh garlic, scallions, lime juice with the steak in a zip-lock bag for an hour or so, and then salt the meat just before putting on the grill. Or lamb chops with garlic, rosemary or mint and olive oil. The best wet marinade for tenderizing and adding flavor is the Middle-Eastern method I use for lamb--this involves yogurt, aromatic vegetables and herbs and chunks of citrus with kebab cubes or butterflied leg in a zip lock bag for four or five days in the fridge--mooshing and turning the bag a couple of times each day. the lactic acid in the yogurt tenderizes the meat gently without making it mushy like a harsher acid like vinegar or wine would, and the long time allows the flavor of the onion and herbs to completely permeate the meat.

Hmm. I have the opposite problem: I struggle getting my brines to add any flavor to poultry, but have had great success with marinades.

Use a lot of aromatics and herbal elements. Heat the brine with shallot, parsley, celery leaves and lots of aromatic herbs (tarragon, rosemary, thyme and/or lavender) until the salt and sugar have melted, and simmer briefly, but don't boil hard. Then turn it off and let the herbs steep like you are making strong tea. You should be able to smell it throughout your living space. When the brine has cooled to room temperature, strain out the herbs and chill the brine. Then soak the poultry or pork in it for 24 hours. If your brine has the proper ratio of salt and sugar to water, and you've have flavored it strongly enough, you'll taste it all the way to the bone.

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Deep thoughts: if using rendered pork fat to make a vinaigrette, remember to use some olive oil as well. when pork fat gets cold, it solidifes, and solid salad dressing is....interesting.

Think warm. Like bacon dressings for spinach salad, dandelion salad, warm German potato salad. Wouldn't be so nice cold. And olive oil solidifies in the refrigerator, so it isn't necessarily a solution.

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Olive oil and balsamic are a common combination, but I find the flavors tend to step on one another. If I'm running with a good balsamic, I'll use a more neutral tasting oil. Similarly, when rolling out the French extra virgin, I'll go with a less assertive (and expensive) vinaiger to ensure the oil its pride of place. But, different strokes...

My vinaigrettes improved dramatically when a friend taught me to finely, finely, dice a teaspoon or so of shallot and whisk it in. I aslo add a pinch of sugar (when not working with balsamic) and even a touch of garlic powder, both barbarous acts, I know, but tasty.

I would hesitate to use good stuff in a marinade, just on general expense principles, if nothing else.

So, what did you buy? Then we could give more specific advice.

PS: If you bought real balsamic -- oh, let's get all Italian and call it "balsamico" -- a classic and (one hopes) timely application is to stir just the slightest bit in with fresh strawberries. Also, I seem to recall dripping it onto fresh Parmigiano-Reggiano, but that may be the Barolo talking.

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Good Seasons Italian dressing powder + olive oil + balsamic vinegar + soy sauce + flank steak = joy

Holy shit. My job before dinner when I was nine (ie during the Johnson Administration) was making the Good Seasons dressing or the salad. You bought your first pack taped to a caraffe that had the lines in it showing how much water, vinegar and oil to add, after that you just had to buy the pack. I didn't evcen know they still made it.

I 'll bet my mom still has that caraffe somewhere.

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My vinaigrettes improved dramatically when a friend taught me to finely, finely, dice a teaspoon or so of shallot and whisk it in.
And I swear by something I read in one of Deborah Madison's books: pour your vinegar over the minced shallot and leave it for 15 minutes or so while you're doing other things. Then, come back and finish the salad dressing. Makes a BIG difference, I swear; favor's almost nutty. I tend to stay simple w a decent (but not expensive) Spanish sherry vinegar, more than normally required (1:3 of oil is standard) but not too much more. Olive oil, usually. Sometimes walnut oil alone or combined. A dollop of brightly hued Dijon (or D-style) mustard. S & P. That's it. For green salad, I like little, fine strands of Gruyere. Maybe some minced chives or parsley if I chopped too much for the rest of the meal.
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My job before dinner when I was nine was making the Good Seasons dressing or the salad.
Back then, I didn't know people made salad dressing. Wishbone Italian or the bottled one that was supposed to taste like cucumbers. Learned otherwise in college dining club, though not when Alan Shapiro made meatballs with grape jelly.
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Holy shit. My job before dinner when I was nine (ie during the Johnson Administration) was making the Good Seasons dressing or the salad. You bought your first pack taped to a caraffe that had the lines in it showing how much water, vinegar and oil to add, after that you just had to buy the pack. I didn't evcen know they still made it.

I 'll bet my mom still has that caraffe somewhere.

I always found it difficult to get the water measurement right when pumping the water up from the well in the backyard. When the water suddenly gushes out your dressing is ruined. This was certainly frustrating-- especially after a long day behind the plow or barn raising.

One often reads of "classic" vinaigrettes being 1 part oil and 1 part vinegar. I don't get it. Depending on the vinegar, I might be using up to 1 part oil and 4 parts acid. And I'm not talking cheapass vinegar here. 1-to-1 just always seems WAY too acidic to me.

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I like to keep my vinaigrettes simple and French, i.e., no balsamic or EVOO. The heart of a good vinaigrette is, as the name indicates, the vinegar; the oil is simply a delivery device and other ingredients are secondary flavorings.

My favorite vinegar to use is an aged (25 yr.) sherry vinegar. Unfortunately, it's hard to find a good selection of sherry vinegars in this town, even at a place like Dean and Deluca. The mustard is important, too. I like using basic Maille because it has a softer, more vinerous character than other Dijons. For the oil I use safflower or canola from the supermarket.

Just dissolve the salt in the vinegar with a whisk, add a dollop of mustard and whisk until smooth, then whisk in your oil in a thin stream until the consistency and acidity please you. Then add pepper and whatever other flavoring you might have on hand. Chopped tarragon and nothing else is my favorite, or chives, or finely diced shallots and minced black olives (goes great with arugula and shaved carrot). Vinaigrette is one of the humblest and simplest but also one of the most fun and satisfying sauces you can make.

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I always found it difficult to get the water measurement right when pumping the water up from the well in the backyard. When the water suddenly gushes out your dressing is ruined. This was certainly frustrating-- especially after a long day behind the plow or barn raising.

At least you had a pump! I had to take the carafe down to the stream. One false step on the bank and my salad dressing was mud. ;)

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At least you had a pump! I had to take the carafe down to the stream. One false step on the bank and my salad dressing was mud. ;)
lol... my mom had a carafe... and now I have a carafe. It's fantastic. For whatever reason, it always ends up being involved somehow when I make something from Happy in the Kitchen.
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Someone was asking elsewhere about how long homemade balsamic vinaigrette would keep and intended to leave it out on the kitchen counter. I've always thought it should be refrigerated, especially if there is garlic in it. Is that correct? And how long should it be kept in the refrigerator? (I thought a couple of weeks.)

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I tried this the other night and was pleasantly surprised. Although I was distracted... and didn't pay attention to the directions; doubled the O&V... the end result was kinda sweet. And pink. Couldn't figure that one out. But, it was good enough to go on the back of the kitchen cabinet for future reference.

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... kind of surprised no one mentioned this one yet. if you have a first edition of h. mcgee's on food and cooking, you'll know this gets tossed around a bit, especially the quick "searing" of a piece of meat to "keep" the juices in, ie water. all myths.

... i have a dear friend that "marinates", using some special something-or-other they bring in by the case from little rock. takes a day or two to get it tenderized properly before it hits the grill ... and it still comes across like a dead tennis shoe, albiet one with "flavour".

... but "soaking" tomatoes (hello dan quayle), and seafood bits in this and that, now that's a "marinade" !

robert clair

alexandria, va

22308

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When one is making buffalo sauce, most recipes just call for hot sauce.  Is there any special hot sauce that makes it more "buffalo"-y?  I have tabasco, cholula, something from the Virgin Islands, but it has lime, another Carribean style hot sauce.  Not sure what would work the best.  I am making roasted cauliflower with buffalo sauce.  

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When one is making buffalo sauce, most recipes just call for hot sauce.  Is there any special hot sauce that makes it more "buffalo"-y?  I have tabasco, cholula, something from the Virgin Islands, but it has lime, another Carribean style hot sauce.  Not sure what would work the best.  I am making roasted cauliflower with buffalo sauce.  

My Buffalo born and raised wife insists on Franks Red Hot anytime I'm making any sort of "buffalo" styled dish

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My Buffalo born and raised wife insists on Franks Red Hot anytime I'm making any sort of "buffalo" styled dish

Definitely true on Frank's. Available most anywhere including giant, dual bottle packs at Costco, anyone who has ever lived in or traveled through western NY will swear it ain't a Buffalo Wing without the Frank's.

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Thank you both, I figured there must be a certain hot sauce as they have a markedly different flavor from hot sauce to hot sauce. And I think the cauliflower, while it might be good with any of these hot sauces really is fantastic with buffalo sauce.

And? How did it go? I'm thinking you were the reason that goal-line interception happened, sealing the victory for deflate-gate Brady. And, for the record, Go Pats! Hope the cauliflower was a big hit.
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And? How did it go? I'm thinking you were the reason that goal-line interception happened, sealing the victory for deflate-gate Brady. And, for the record, Go Pats! Hope the cauliflower was a big hit.

Well the buffalo sauce was really good.  I am still working on how to make the cauliflower taste just like it does at Moonshadow Cafe.  The recipe I had tossed the cauliflower in water and olive oil, roasted 20-25 minutes then topped with sauce and roasted for another 5-7.  I think it would have been better if I completely roasted them, with less water, and then tossed in sauce before serving.  But everyone really liked them.  I mean they were good, just not quite to the crack level.  But they also had to get transported which always means less crunch.  I think it's a great way to eat cauliflower though and will perfect the recipe.  And really everyone at the party really liked it.

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Well the buffalo sauce was really good.  I am still working on how to make the cauliflower taste just like it does at Moonshadow Cafe.  The recipe I had tossed the cauliflower in water and olive oil, roasted 20-25 minutes then topped with sauce and roasted for another 5-7.  I think it would have been better if I completely roasted them, with less water, and then tossed in sauce before serving.  But everyone really liked them.  I mean they were good, just not quite to the crack level.  But they also had to get transported which always means less crunch.  I think it's a great way to eat cauliflower though and will perfect the recipe.  And really everyone at the party really liked it.

Was going to ask why any water at all since seems like that would just interfere with the oil clinging and the nice browning you get from that. Would have thought smal pieces washed and thoroughly dried before oil and dressing. But have never been to Moonshadow and very cool they were a hit. Getting anything to truly "crack level" for home cooks is a challenge though a fun one.

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