Mark Slater Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Read all about it here.. The reserve wine list they submitted was made up of the lowest scoring Italian wines in the past 10 years- wines scored under 80, with many under 70. Too funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wine Guy 23 Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 very, very interesting!! just goes to show you, that $250 just pays for their gas to go play golf over the weekend, and order a bottle of 90+rated wine rather than the bug spray filled 60pointer we have grown to love : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banco Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Hiliarious and deeply satisfying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWBooneJr Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 People should read the response before passing judgment: http://forums.winespectator.com/eve/forums...161/m/835102245 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banco Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 People should read the response before passing judgment: http://forums.winespectator.com/eve/forums...161/m/835102245 Damn. Never mind. ETA: WS' methods do seem slipshod and misleading (e.g., using "excellence" as the lowest category of an award) like its entire scoring system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 No credibility for the response - it still shows that WS didn't actually confirm the restaurant's existence or list and clearly didn't check the reserve list (a small percentage, but clearly an important component for an award of excellence). And it's making people who didn't already know aware that WS doesn't visit the restaurants it gives awards to - there's no consideration of stemware, serving temperatures, staff knowledge, etc. They're still unscrupulous idiots, and all the response shows is that someone went to a fair amount of effort to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWBooneJr Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 My point, if you believe the response, is that the "sting" might just be a clever fraud: How could this wine list earn an award?On his blog, Goldstein posted a small selection of the wines on this list, along with their poor ratings from Wine Spectator. This was his effort to prove that the list – even if real – did not deserve an award. However, this selection was not representative of the quality of the complete list that he submitted to our program. Goldstein posted reviews for 15 wines. But the submitted list contained a total of 256 wines. Only 15 wines scored below 80 points. Fifty-three wines earned ratings of 90 points or higher (outstanding on Wine Spectator’s 100-point scale) and a total of 102 earned ratings of 80 points (good) or better. (139 wines were not rated.) Overall, the wines came from many of Italy’s top producers, in a clear, accurate presentation. Here is our description of an Award of Excellence: Our basic award, for lists that offer a well-chosen selection of quality producers, along with a thematic match to the menu in both price and style. The list from L’Intrepido clearly falls within these parameters. I was actually surprised to learn that WS went to as much trouble as they did: In the case of Osteria L’Intrepido:a. We called the restaurant multiple times; each time, we reached an answering machine and a message from a person purporting to be from the restaurant claiming that it was closed at the moment. b. Googling the restaurant turned up an actual address and located it on a map of Milan c. The restaurant sent us a link to a Web site that listed its menu d. On the Web site Chowhound, diners (now apparently fictitious) discussed their experiences at the non-existent restaurant in entries dated January 2008, to August 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Slater Posted August 21, 2008 Author Share Posted August 21, 2008 People should read the response before passing judgment: http://forums.winespectator.com/eve/forums...161/m/835102245 The response seemed to me like an attempt at damage control. The thread where it was posted has already gotten to 7 pages long, and the topic on eRobertParker.com bulletin board has picked up hundreds of posts about this, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treznor Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 (Nearly one-third of new entries each year do not win awards.) WOW! One third of restaurants don't get an award! That's pretty picky! [/sarcasm] Statements like these, made in all seriousness by the Executive Editor of the magazine are exactly why these awards are useless. 2/3 of the restaurants that bother to pay the entry fee ($250 I think?) get some kind of award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdt Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Hmmm, makes you wonder how many restaurants actually have all of the wines on the list that they submitted. It is pretty sad that they don't even bother to do much checking for their 'basic' award. I am not really a WS reader, but do they indicate the level of this award anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparrott Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Yeah. A few years back, I went to a couple of "Best of Award of Excellence" places in Syracuse. One had a whole page of Muller-Catoir on the list, at insanely low prices. One was in stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treznor Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Hmmm, makes you wonder how many restaurants actually have all of the wines on the list that they submitted. It is pretty sad that they don't even bother to do much checking for their 'basic' award. I am not really a WS reader, but do they indicate the level of this award anywhere? To their credit, they do state in the magazine the methodology for the awards. Of course, if you just happen to see the award on the wall of the restaurant or in an ad for the restaurant you wouldn't know that the "Award of Excellence" means any schmo with $250 can get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWBooneJr Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Of course, if you just happen to see the award on the wall of the restaurant or in an ad for the restaurant you wouldn't know that the "Award of Excellence" means any schmo with $250 can get it. Here is a complete list of the schmos in DC who have the award: Best of Award of Excellence (2d Tier): Bistro Bis Charlie Palmer Steak CityZen Le Paradou Marcel's Proof The Capital Grille Vidalia Award of Excellence (3d Tier): 1789 Restaurant 701 Pennsylvania Ave. Acadiana Ardeo Restaurant BLT Steak BlackSalt Bobby Van's Steakhouse Brasserie Les Halles Cafe Atlantico Ceiba Clydes DC Coast Equinox Fogo de Chao Hook Restaurant Jaleo Legal Sea Foods Mie N Yu Morton's, The Steakhouse Oya Restaurant & Lounge Peacock Grand Cafe Poste Moderne Brasserie Ruth's Chris Steakhouse Seasons Smith & Wollensky Taberna Del Alabardero TenPenh The Bombay Club The Melting Pot The Oceanaire Seafood Room The Oval Room at Lafayette Square The Palm The Prime Rib The Willard Room. Zola Are these the best restaurants for wine in DC? Some yes, some no. But you aren't going to be drinking Sutter Home at any of them either. In fact, though I haven't been to all of these place, I would bet that all of them have wine lists -- and wines in stock -- that are significantly better than average (though, average is pretty bad). And, in case you were wondering, I have no idea why I'm defending WS, which I don't read. Perhaps it's because I have dedicated my life to defending the noble corporation against the greedy American consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deangold Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 To their credit, they do state in the magazine the methodology for the awards. Of course, if you just happen to see the award on the wall of the restaurant or in an ad for the restaurant you wouldn't know that the "Award of Excellence" means any schmo with $250 can get it.Apparently it means that 70% of the schmoes with $250... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treznor Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Are these the best restaurants for wine in DC? Some yes, some no. But you aren't going to be drinking Sutter Home at any of them either. In fact, though I haven't been to all of these place, I would bet that all of them have wine lists -- and wines in stock -- that are significantly better than average (though, average is pretty bad).And, in case you were wondering, I have no idea why I'm defending WS, which I don't read. Perhaps it's because I have dedicated my life to defending the noble corporation against the greedy American consumer. I have no qualm with the second and third tier awards. For the most part they are indicative of a very well put together wine list. The Award of Excellence (the bottom tier) is the main problem. "Excellence" does not entail just not serving Sutter Home, it entails actual thought and work and not just being "better than average" but being a cut above your competition. My problem with the WS awards is two-fold: 1) The list is by no means inclusive, i.e. there are quite a few places in DC that have much better wine lists than those that won the WS awards. However, those places didn't feel the need to apply for an award and thus didn't end up on the list. I don't really have a fix for this problem, but it does limit the usefulness of the awards for me. 2) The lowest tier is called "Excellent" but the standard is anything but. The standard stated by WS for the Excellent award is quite low. Take a look at the restaurants that won the second-level award (as DC has no restaurants that won the top level award, with the Inn at Little Washington being the closest to DC I believe). Are these the best wine in the city? No doubt that they are very good; I've eaten at about half of them and enjoyed the wine service all around. However, they are a number of places in the city that aren't listed that are as good or better. #1 is my main problem with the awards, but #2 dilutes the prestige of the set of awards and thus restaurants don't apply as it's just not all that prestigious (or don't want to pay for an award), so in the end #2 is a large part of what drives #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Slater Posted August 22, 2008 Author Share Posted August 22, 2008 I have no qualm with the second and third tier awards. For the most part they are indicative of a very well put together wine list. The Award of Excellence (the bottom tier) is the main problem. "Excellence" does not entail just not serving Sutter Home, it entails actual thought and work and not just being "better than average" but being a cut above your competition.My problem with the WS awards is two-fold: 1) The list is by no means inclusive, i.e. there are quite a few places in DC that have much better wine lists than those that won the WS awards. However, those places didn't feel the need to apply for an award and thus didn't end up on the list. I don't really have a fix for this problem, but it does limit the usefulness of the awards for me. 2) The lowest tier is called "Excellent" but the standard is anything but. The standard stated by WS for the Excellent award is quite low. Take a look at the restaurants that won the second-level award (as DC has no restaurants that won the top level award, with the Inn at Little Washington being the closest to DC I believe). Are these the best wine in the city? No doubt that they are very good; I've eaten at about half of them and enjoyed the wine service all around. However, they are a number of places in the city that aren't listed that are as good or better. #1 is my main problem with the awards, but #2 dilutes the prestige of the set of awards and thus restaurants don't apply as it's just not all that prestigious (or don't want to pay for an award), so in the end #2 is a large part of what drives #1. Some places are just not interested in paying for a dubious award from a glossy, advertising laden life-style magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treznor Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Some places are just not interested in paying for a dubious award from a glossy, advertising laden life-style magazine. Yeah, okay, so you managed to sum up my entire post in one line. No one ever said I was concise :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronsinger Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Seems like a very good way for WS to make lots of money with very little corresponding work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rappahannock Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Its NOT an award. Its advertising. It always was advertising. The guy I bought my restaurant from entered his list which "won" an award of excellence. The next year after we bought it from him, I resubmitted our list and it "won" again, I got to thinking. How exactly is this an award?? Good for the Wine Spectator for thinking up the ad scam, genius really. But why does anyone need a hack travel mag to validate everything they do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparrott Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 It's basically another Zagat guide. Names, addresses of people who might or might not have a wine program. Of course, if they made it a requirement for an award that a restaurant post an up-to-date list on their website, it'd actually be a somewhat useful address list. At least if business travel took you to an unfamiliar backwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wine Guy 23 Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 It's basically another Zagat guide. Names, addresses of people who might or might not have a wine program. Of course, if they made it a requirement for an award that a restaurant post an up-to-date list on their website, it'd actually be a somewhat useful address list. At least if business travel took you to an unfamiliar backwater. zagat has some credibility though. as does the WS Grand Award lists. but to put forth atleast an 700K inventory volume gets pretty hefty for the small restauranteur. it is fun, but costly. goes to show though, that somewhere like Del Posto with an all Italian list, can get a grand award, and not have any diversity of other regions to showcase is pretty impressive on their part. actually it is awesome, and ballsy. it does suck that WS does not follow up with the restaurants, and the lists, and people do not take enough pride in the lists maintenance more times than one. maybe someone will pass-on, and it will be taken over by a real dynamo that gives two sh*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronHorse Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Some places are just not interested in paying for a dubious award from a glossy, advertising laden life-style magazine. Can I get a bloody Amen? Boot the buy-an-award sects! BTW, like the SuperBowl, I just love the ads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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