StephenB

I would like to be in touch with people on this board who remember vividly and enthusiastically Peter Chang's glory days in Northern Virginia. I am not asking for specific recollections at this time, only to find out who was part of that wave of energy a few years ago. The probable upshot will be a discussion of the meals we had at his three local places. Fyi, pandahugga and johnb have already weighed in on this.

Thanks for posting the carryout menu. It would be interesting to know how it compares to the sitdown menu.

Rob, I'm interested, especially if I can get a ride. Nov 22 is OK for me.

Has anyone been there recently? I wonder if Chef Chang has a regular day off.

I was there last week. We had the fried wontons, shredded pork with garlic and the seafood hot pot. It was all quite tasty, comparable to HKP, the standout dish was the pork. The place is also distinguished by the pulchritude of the staff. It's a bit of a hike, though.

I bought them the day before, shucked them Sunday morning, and packed them in ice. The air-tight plastic case preserved the frigidity. There was still ice left mid-afternoon after the clams were gone. I'm glad you enjoyed them.

After studying the road closures due to the Marathon, when some roads re-open (some at 11 a.m., some later), it's not clear to me if it's possible to get over the Key Bridge and onto Route 1 around 12 p.m. If not, is there an alternative route that bypasses the closures? I could take the Chain Bridge if that's any better. Thanks to anyone who knows or can figure it out. I'm wondering if it's possible at all.

The food for both places came from the same source. The difference was in the ambiance and the service. Here is a historical note: <<Talk of the Tyson’s Carnegie’s reminds me of their opening night 25 years or so ago. A local PR firm invited a bunch of sensitive palates (and me) to compare the New York and Tyson’s places as a publicity event. About a dozen of us met at National Airport, flew to New York, taxied to 7th Avenue and sat down for lunch. One of our number, Rudy Maxa, had invited Elizabeth Ray (Cong. Wayne Hays’ secretary who couldn’t type) along with Brooke Shields and her mother to join us in Manhattan. The place was crowded as usual. I said to the waiter, “I would like a pastrami sandwich.” The waiter said, “No, you wouldn’t.” I said, “Huh?” The waiter, an elderly man, unshaven, with a dirty shirt, said, “You would like a pastrami and corned beef sandwich.” And so it was. Afterward, we took cabs to Penn Station and hopped on a train with a special dining and lounging car for our group. Rudy and I tried not to eat too much but we did sample their libations. A bus met us in DC and took us out to Tyson’s for dinner. Some of us had not yet recovered our full appetite but we were feeling game and not going to miss the opportunity to do an important scientific comparison. (Actually, we were told that trucks from the same point in New Jersey supplied both restaurants every morning.) At this point, my recollection begins to grow dim, but I do remember that my waitperson in Virginia was Asian, female, neatly dressed, and didn’t argue with her customers — a disgraceful failure of Carnegie authenticity.>>

How about a batch of pit beef from Pulaski Highway? Sunday is the perfect day to pick it up since, as John Waters observed, that's the day the food inspectors are off.

Are we getting close to selecting a date?

When I arrived in Washington in the '60s, I lived in the Howard Johnson's on Virginia Avenue for a couple of months. Often I came back from the State Dept at noon, ordered lunch, usually breaded haddock and a salad, plus one of their 27 kinds of ice cream, took it all up to the rooftop pool, ate, and tranquilly paddled around while I listened to the radio to see if I needed to scurry back. The food was plain stuff but I have never enjoyed a meal more.

There are quite a few items on the menu that are unspecified "fish." This is becoming ubiquitous in Asian restaurants. I presume it means farm-grown tilapia, but who knows? Can you imagine another menu that is no more specific than "meat"?

Is this place related to the restaurant of the same name at 18th & K downtown? I have lots of experience there (including several banquets in their private room), and think it's good, but never thought it specialized in heat.

Yes, it was a special event hosted by the Harvard Club of Washington, and the presentation lasted an hour and a half, 90 minutes, 3 stomach-grumbling cycles. I wrote about it here last November.

I'm interested, depending on timing, though $50 for two can't be right. I've always enjoyed La Taberna when I've gone in small groups, but on the occasion I went with a larger one, the risotto was soggy, the mariscos were overcooked, and the chef droned on in a self-promoting spiel, delaying the dinner. But the place is good enough, and beautifully appointed, to deserve another try.

There are so many misconstrued assumptions on this thread that it’s hard to keep up. To Don, I would say for credibility's sake learn how to spell churrascaria and then get rid of the naïve notion that one should avoid the salad bar to save room for the beef and thus bamboozle the establishment. Anyone who regularly patronizes these restaurants for reasons other than gluttony and bargains understands that the salad bar adds variety and balance to the meal. One would no more limit himself to the rodizio offerings than he would go to Ray’s the Steaks and have the onglet, the chateaubriand and the filet mignon, but no appetizer or dessert. Daniel, Brazil is a big country, the area is equivalent to that of the continental U.S., and to say you know some Brazilians tells us nothing about their tastes. Where are they from? We had a window into this issue recently when the President visited Ray’s Hell Burger and ordered a burger midwestern style, medium well, which caused some in this region to guffaw. In short, there is no Brazilian taste any more than there is an American taste. I don’t consider $6 for Xingu in a restaurant exorbitant. The dark variety is the richest beer I know. It’s nice to know it’s available here. I have looked for it at several liquor stores but have had poor luck. It is true there are differences between the churrascarias here and those I know in Rio de Janeiro, São Paulo and Florianópolis. When I took John C. Dvorak, the computer columnist, to A Jardineira in São Paulo, he practically collapsed when he saw the salad bar. “Pickled turnips!” he cried joyfully. Lobster and other delicacies were also laid out. I can hear Don saying, “No, no, save room for the picanha!” There is probably a bigger difference between Brazilian restaurants here and in Brazil than between French places here and in France. That’s because the best French places here are top dollar while the Brazilian counterparts are not. The closest I have had to the Brazilian experience in the U.S was at Porçao in Miami. I have not been to Texas de Brazil (Texas do Brasil), but I have had some decent repasts at Fogo de Chão. I did not notice any particular difference in saltiness, but my time in Brazil is limited to the southeastern part of the country. In general, people from hot climates (northern Brazil) use more salt than those from more moderate regions (the south). Cada um no seu gosto (each to his own taste).

I think it would be hard to show supporting data on that. The stereotyping might be on your part, not theirs. I never have any problem getting the full flavor. But of course I make my preference clear. And you know, not all Asians go for spiciness. So if your charge of racism is valid, they're inviting problems on both sides of the equation. Not good for business.

Yes, I'll be glad to argue. There's nothing wrong with expressing a preference. Doing so is entirely to the advantage of the diner. Your formula would have you walking into Ray's the Steaks and not letting the waiter know if you want rare, medium or well done.

Lunching solo, I tried the shredded pork with pickled vegetables and was glad I did. It was not marked as spicy but it could have been.

Hong Kong Palace, and it's hiking distance from Mark's. Tell Melony you want things toned down a bit.

The spicy meal was just what it was supposed to be, and thoroughly enjoyable. Thanks to Dean for arranging it, and to Audrey and her staff for carrying it off. Of the many dishes, my favorite was the fish filet with sour cabbage & noodle. The lamb was a vigorous second.

One thing dr.com has awakened me to is the existence of proprietors who want to discourage too much business. This select group includes Peter Chang, Michael Landrum and, now, Audrey from Joe's. You could argue that these are the best of the best -- devoted artistes -- who would rather sacrifice revenue than quality. But there is something weirdly counter-intuitive about it.

To review: spiciness is not an absolute. Two peppers from the same pod can have different values. An individual consumer can react diffferently to the same substance on different days. In eating spicy food, your machismo is not at stake. (For women: hembrismo.) Yes, pain can be interpreted in some circumstances as pleasure -- because we wouldn't know one without the other. But too much pain is never pleasurable for sane people. Spiciness can be meaured by the well-known Scoville Scale, named after the chemist, Wilbur Scoville, who devised the test a century ago. Those items in Latin, African, Asian and Sub-Continent cuisine that make us tear up and sweat are usually in the 1,000 range, but Scoville has measured up to 15 million -- the bhut jolokia, an Indian pepper. The hottest thing I have ever tasted was an innocuous looking little pink thing handed to me in Guatemala. The great thing about Joe's is that the food is spiced, but it never goes over the line.

Good hews. I often rely on Audrey for recommendations. This is going to be fun.

Daniel, I don't wan't to avoid spicy food -- that's not the point. But there are some spicy foods I am weary of -- for instance, JNH's H-20, which has lost its mystery after many tastings. I hope this conversastion doesn't mark me as someone who steers away from la comida piquante. That's far from the case.