DaveO

Interesting to read the history on this restaurant since 2005. At the bartending school we'll hear about different restaurants/clubs/bars from various grads over many years. The perspectives of employees; good bad, all with the individual perspectives of the employee. Over the years we had heard of some "disruption". The "closing" and reopening in 2010 reminded me of that. Good luck. Its been years since I've dined at Creme, I'm sorry to say. At one time it had about the best food on U Street. Now the entire area is a food, dining and drinking bonanza.

Here here...and ditto for the rest of the area!!!!!!

Thanks darkstar. you give great coffee shop reviews. I'm a fan of coffee shops including the everywhere you turn starbucks and do eat their banana bread loaf. Now I'd like to get over to Silver Spring and try this new treat!!!!

The above thread is great , but obviously mistitled as "parking in cleveland park" or "parking in DC" or "how to vacuum up suburbanites money" or "getting ticketed in DC" might be more appropriate. but a full thread on the culinary delights in Cleveland Park would be interesting, informative, inviting and fun.

I worked in this area for a long time as a broker. I bowed to attorneys on their expertise and frankly always looked for relationships where we could complement one another. Its refreshing to get legal clarity on this lease extension issue. From my perspective go Chef Geoff. Try and get more $$$. I suspect if you do have to relocate and try and find a new comparable location the rent is going to be far far far more expensive than what you are currently paying (assuming you are still on that original lease)

Having grown up in the NY metro area I heard a lot of positive comments about little Italy in the Bronx. I still hear it. Sad to say I never got to any of its restaurants. I grew up in Jersey..and way south of the GW bridge so except for the Yankees I didn't get to the Bronx much, but I was surprised to hear about how great it was from a wide variety of people

Thanks for that response Nizam. I've been to BCB and to BNB. I've enjoyed both of them. By the way that is one long killer looking bar. I hope you're able to fill it up with customers. I was surprised to see how large BNB is with its depth and back rooms. There is a lot of capacity in that restaurant. Two different worlds. LOL. From my perspective, having leased retail in the past, having leased restaurant spaces way back and aware of so many operations, it was interesting to hear from an established operator how the huge growth of 14th street restaurants and bars has somewhat impacted BNB. It will, I'm sure, force you guys to be on your business toes. The whole area has undergone this astounding change. Good luck. Hopefully for all the operators the growth of residential in the future outpaces the growth of retail spaces. Best of luck.

thanks ktmoomau: A legal response. That adds clarity in my mind. Over the years I experienced situations where landlords tried to affect the ultimate new lease rates or terms and/or tried to push a tenant out via some sort of slick trick which works around the basic terms. In this case if you take the tenant at face value, and if he has some proof wherein the landlord didn't respond then I would think the tenant has some standing to take this situation to court and a chance at a more favorable decision if they don't settle beforehand. On the other hand if this restaurant was able to successfully prevent this proposed development because of this case, a buyout offer could become astronomical.

Man. you are an informative aficionado. And thank you. I went by there, but after they closed. It does look handsome/attractive. It is in a far corner of Roslyn. suggesting it will be a natural attraction to some and too far away for others. I wish them well and have to get down there to try it during operating hours.

@jayandstacy: I'm not an attorney and never thought through that question nor recall it being discussed. (though it might have been). My response is not legal. It gives the tenant the right to extend the lease. It does not give the landlord the right to walk away from a lease extension. So much of the dynamics about these situations are solely based on market conditions and have nothing to do with "right or wrong". In most cases tenants that are making it, want to stay. In most of those cases landlords would want to keep them. From the landlord's perspective its a pain in the neck and expensive to try and release a vacated space. Also there are risk and credit risks associated with a new tenant. On the other hand if rents have soared in between the time a lease was written and the point of renewal landlord's perspectives might change a lot. Regardless of how much more they might negotiate with an existing tenant they might get more with a totally new tenant. Finally landlords sort of want to play god and director with their properties and determine who or what type of business goes into the spaces in terms of look and feel. (they have that right--its their building(s). But when they do that they have no idea how a new tenant will play out and operate. Lastly, while I leased a lot of space and a good bit of retail in the city and suburbs over time, reading through this forum has given me new and different insights about operating a restaurant that I hadn't considered before. Its tough to run a restaurant. I give kudos to the operators that do so successfully, especially in this high rent environment.

@ Jayandstacey: From rereading the article there was a 10 year lease with 2 five year renewals. If the tenant's attorney was savvy the renewals would not have had rental rates but would have a specific way to get an agreed upon rent using a 3 appraiser method in the event the landlord and tenant couldn't agree on the amount. (that is all from memory...if there are additional elements to specifying terms during a renewal I'm not familiar with them) on the other hand a supermarket anchor in a shopping center might have a 30,40, 50 year lease with extensions...and the extensions might have specific rental rates. In the first case usually the landlord has more negotiating leverage. In the 2nd case the tenant has more negotiating leverage. I never ran into this kind of case, where a retail tenant used his renewal rights to try and stop a tear/down redevelopment of a building. From the article it appears quadrangle (the landlord) is going to quadruple or quintuple the size of the development. That has enormous value. I just found the situation and article interesting. Whether one likes or doesn't like the restaurant, more power to the operator for running a successful restaurant there. Its a great location IMHO able to pick up business traffic and tourist traffic. If its especially good it can draw local traffic at night. I've seen other restaurants fail in that location and nearby with similar location advantages. I also think that its in the last 10+ years that retail rents in downtown DC just skyrocketed. If he were to negotiate a new rent with his renewal I'm sure "market rent" would entail a huge increase off of whatever he is paying. Over the years regardless of the language of leases I've seen landlords act in ways that defied the lease terms if and when they wanted to make changes for whatever reasons they had. I'm not familiar with court cases of this ilk. In my experience when landlords tried to change conditions regardless of the language of a lease there was usually some kind of negotiated buyout. It usually ended up about the money. As I'm writing this I think most of the reason this case landed in court is because the landlord and tenant are way way apart on some kind of buyout. All of these comments are my opinion and nothing more. I just find it interesting.

I find the case interesting. I don't know how a court will decide nor on what basis it will make a decision. I also think it has little to do with right or wrong. A lease extension right is a serious part of a written agreement: the written agreements are part of the fundamental aspects of American law. As I recall the people that head Quadrangle are nice people but extremely tough (as are most landlords) in business. There isn't a lot of right or wrong there. Its business. More power to Chef Geoff Tracy if he has made that location a success. Not all restaurants in that terrific location have made it over the years. Can the right to extend a lease overcome the desire of a landlord to bulldoze a building a build a larger building? I don't know. The landlord agreed with the tenant years earlier to provide for a lease extension. Almost assuredly that agreement spelled out a way to determine a market rent if the two sides couldn't agree in negotiations. Ultimately I think it will be negotiated about cash. In my opinion more power to Chef Geoff Tracy. Fight the fight. I'm not the one to say the original offer for a buyout was reasonable or "right" or not...but I suspect the original offer was on the low side.

I find that an interesting case and argument. I've negotiated lease renewals and despite what the language of the lease says landlords take all sorts of attitudes and reactions that often are at complete odds with the language of the renewal. Its usually all about money and in this case it seems to be the same. The developer has a huge expensive project on the drawing board, they've already made a cash buyout offer to the operator and he turned it down. I say hold em up. Get more cash!!!! Fight the fight!!! and good luck to Chef Geoff's.

This fellow seems to personify the nickname: www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/very_red_sunburn.jpg

Yeah, Don: Toscana Grill was complicated. It was originally opened by a family member of the Pines of Florence group over 10 years ago. I'd say it didn't work. Pines of Florence has been a reliable mid priced mediocre but okay Italian restaurant for many years with several locations. But Toscana Grill was far worse, IMHO. Toscana Grill was operated by a family member that didn't seem to care about the service details. With it never really working well then under the same management it changed its menu and added a different website. The 2nd iteration of Toscana Grill was a vegetarian restaurant. It didn't work. Then a little over two years ago, Joe took over the restaurant, under its original lease and became the "operator" with the same original family member being the owner. Joe changed the menu, made the recipe's more like those of NJ/NY and had a different website the whatever you want to think of it, spaghettiyaface dot com menu. Then he decided to move. The business arrangement terminated way too abruptly imho, but it occurred. spaghettiyaface dot com is still up but I'm sure it will come down in a reasonable time and there will be a toscanagrill web site. With all those changes....that is a place that defies easy description. I'll miss it. The NJ/NY menu was comfort food to me. I enjoyed it. I thought Joe was one of the most engaging friendly restaurant operators I had met. Good luck to him.

Michael Sterling, who converted Big Chair to a restaurant/bar while still maintaining a coffee shop early morning menu must have had a disagreement with the original operators of Big Chair and left suddenly. He is now a "partner" of some sort down the street, at Mama's BBQ, Blues & Pizza at 2028 Martin Luther King Jr. Aven, in SE. I think they'll be doing a lot of the same things they were doing at Big Chair in the evenings.

This story is hilarious: http://entertainment.time.com/2013/10/21/billionaire-reportedly-paid-guy-fieri-100000-to-be-his-friend/?xid=gonewsedit&google_editors_picks=true true or not true?

Its not just invision. A lot of sites with "search functions" have the same problem. Internal search functions are not sophisticated. The site:url.com search phrase is a very good application. Its also available at bing.

One operating restaurant recently closed: Big Chair Cafe and Bar in Anacostia at Martin Luther King Avenue: "Big Chair Cafe Bar & Grill Closes in Anacostia" by Jonathan O'Connell on washingtonpost.com The other that is still operating under its name but changed management is Toscana Grill. The management between the operator and lease holder ended and the lease holder took it back. In both cases the operators did not have leases. They had agreements with the existing lease holders (former operators) to operate the restaurants. It appears both agreements ended badly and quickly. I knew of Big Chair through the bartending school as we provided them with a stream of bartenders. They converted from a coffee house to bar/restaurant and had an excellent run. From their Facebook page it appeared there was a lot of satisfaction with the operations. --- In the other case the most recent operator made a business deal with the lease holder (former operator) and ran the restaurant for a little over two years. It became a local favorite of mine. Initially because of the NJ/NY style Italian food, flavors, and pizza and then because the operator till just recently it was easily one of the most outgoing, fun, engaging people I had met in the restaurant business over many years. It was easy to become a regular...as with many others. In the case of Toscana, the outgoing operator made a plan to leave, gave notice, but that quickly broke down and the change in operations occurred abruptly last week. I'll certainly miss the operations. I can't speak to the changes if any in the menu. One little note of interest: If you go to the restaurant website, you'll see a note from the website owner/former operator announcing the close down. Then go to the google reviews and sort by most recent: You'll see a "planted review" responding to the website announcement and how great the place is. In both cases the operators didn't hold the leases. Its a rough way to operate in my experience, and though its rare its also a way to get into the business as an operator with very little capital.

I'm fine with Starbucks. I actually like their coffee. In some cases I prefer it to that of some of the independents and not as much as others. What stunned me though was some really excellent examples of customer service at some starbucks (and some lousy customer service also). But when it was excellent it was very excellent. I followed up on the cases I saw and quietly asked both employees and managers some questions. On the other hand I've experienced some cases of miserable customer service at some independents. The owners could be great but employees could end up being somewhat transient and less responsive. But in general I enjoy the quality of their coffee. Does it kill independents? I'm sure in some cases it does. On the other hand some independents thrive on their localness and different local qualities while providing less than a great product. And others have just great products. It is no doubt tough being an independent. Especially in DC's very high rent territories. In some corridors and in the city rents have simply skyrocketed way beyond the ability of a tenant to make it work.

Well this works well with investment bankers. I'm not sure how well this would work elsewhere, but its interesting: "All Restaurants Should Copy The Goldman-Sachs Cafeteria's Genius Pricing Plan" by Neil Irwin on washingtonpost.com

@SeanMike: I agree with you. It isn't a mixology kind of bar. Your experience is helpful and discerning.

Its certainly still chill. I think their chili is okay. Not great. But I generally like it and frankly I like Cincinnati style, which of course they have. I like it. The bar is chill. I like that too.

KN: That is a great article. Kudo's. Very educational, interesting, and scrumptious!!! One of my long term fave experiences in this region was that for a number of years my ex and I lived on a cul de sac with folks and more importantly cooks from around the Mediterranean. We had a cook who provided Moroccan dishes, a cook from Lebanon (ably supported by his mother and sisters) a cook from Turkey, and the European participants were one from Spain and I contributed Italian dishes (Italian/ NJ style I must admit). We ate together quite a bit having large cook outs with dishes and dinners from around that great body of water (though admittedly not all middle eastern). Undoubtedly I found the food prepared Moroccan style my favorites, though I haven't seen or read kudo's about Moroccan dishes. I think that particular cook was the best of all of us. The endless presentation of middle eastern foods that were new to me were an adventure in new and exciting flavors and foods. Thanks for the article. It warms my taste buds!!!

From the District: Eating Down, Drinking UP This article is from the National Journal: http://www.nationaljournal.com/budget/the-government-shutdown-is-making-d-c-residents-drink-more-20131016?mrefid=HomepageRiver Per information from the District tax office: $217 million lost every day from federal and contractor wages in the D.C. metro area that have either been deferred or cancelled. This amounts to 17.6 percent of the region's economy. $44 million decrease per week in economic activity in the District. $6 million decrease in District tax revenue per week. 7 percent decrease in restaurant traffic in the first week of October, compared with the same week in 2012. 13,000 fewer hotel bookings in the first week of October, amounting to an 8.3 percent decrease (or $2 million less) from 2012. The mayor's office is still finalizing numbers on the increase in alcohol-tax revenue. However, it did confirm that there was a 3 percent increase in restaurant beverage sales, which primarily consists of liquor, during the first week of October from the first week of September. (how about that less hotel visitors and drinking was still up) (also less workers in the city for happy hour and drinking was still up)