Restaurants Failing to Accommodate Special Needs

[DonRocks]

[Am I missing something, or is this "standing in line" issue at Rose's Luxury analogous to the "service charge" issue at Sally's Middle Name? Assuming it is (and I think it is), I think it merits its own thread - this is getting to be a bit much (it's perfectly fine to discuss, but perhaps this thread should be reserved for what goes on inside the door, and we can have a separate thread for what goes on outside the door). ]

[Waitman]

One of Sietsema's most idiotic comments in this discussion:

I guess he'd much rather go stand in line at the box office than order theatre tickets online, too, since the online system is so much more of a hassle than waiting in line at the box office. Recall what Mark Furstenberg said last year on this very website, in reference to his joint project with Frank Ruta:

Who are you going to go with, Mark Furstenberg or Tom Sietsema?

Last year my girlfriend and I were headed to Chicago and we were running around getting dressed one morning a couple weeks before and I told her "there's this place called Alinea that I'd like to eat at if they have a table," and she said "sure" and I dragged the laptop onto the bedspread, got onto the Alinea website, lucked into a table on a night we were going to be there and wrapped the whole process up in about five minutes in between finding a pair of socks that matched and knotting my necktie. I still have some aversion to paying up front (does anyone remember the contract that Rogue 24 used to make you sign?) but from a convenience standpoint it sure beat the shit out of standing line for hours.

It also allows the restaurant to guarantee full tables and this keep prices "low" ( a mere $210-295/person!) by guaranteeing full tables.

Not a solution for every restaurant, obviously, but a pretty convenient way to go about things.

[The Hersch]

Interesting that the Inn at Little Washington makes at least some effort to accommodate vegans, while Little Serow/Rose's seem to make no effort at all to accommodate those for whom hours of line-standing is a significant obstacle to dinner.

Little Serow also makes no effort at all to accommodate vegetarians (let alone vegans) or people with nut allergies. To give them what credit they may be due, they're upfront about it.

[DonRocks]

Last year my girlfriend and I were headed to Chicago and we were running around getting dressed one morning a couple weeks before and I told her "there's this place called Alinea that I'd like to eat at if they have a table," and she said "sure" and I dragged the laptop onto the bedspread, got onto the Alinea website, lucked into a table on a night we were going to be there and wrapped the whole process up in about five minutes in between finding a pair of socks that matched and knotting my necktie. I still have some aversion to paying up front (does anyone remember the contract that Rogue 24 used to make you sign?) but from a convenience standpoint it sure beat the shit out of standing line for hours.

It also allows the restaurant to guarantee full tables and this keep prices "low" ( a mere $210-295/person!) by guaranteeing full tables.

Not a solution for every restaurant, obviously, but a pretty convenient way to go about things.

Did you enjoy finding your flight and hotel online?

[Okay, I'm convinced this issue merits its own thread, just like the service charge issue. Oops.]

[Waitman]

Did you enjoy finding your flight and hotel online?

Booking a flight is probably the least unpleasant aspect of air travel these days.   Although, now that they have better wine in airport bars, killing time between security and boarding is better than it used to be.

[lovehockey]

Just throwing this out there:  I completely understand the complaints from people who cannot stand in line (or even sit in line) for long periods of time.  But if a restaurant decides not to take reservations, how would (or could) they implement a policy to accommodate those with special needs while at the same time making sure that the policy isn't abused by people who would have no problem doing so?

[DonRocks]

Just throwing this out there:  I completely understand the complaints from people who cannot stand in line (or even sit in line) for long periods of time.  But if a restaurant decides not to take reservations, how would (or could) they implement a policy to accommodate those with special needs while at the same time making sure that the policy isn't abused by people who would have no problem doing so?

Requiring a handicapped id of some sort? Similar to parking?

I don't know - I'm just throwing this out there.

[Ericandblueboy]

Apparently you (and Tom) have nothing better to do with your time on a (soon-to-be-cold) Wednesday afternoon than stand in line and watch the meter maids work 8th street for several hours and thank your lucky stars that Rose's deigns to let you eat there.

C'mon man. That's a ludicrous response. You have time to row, you have time to stand in line.

Btw, what other 4 star restaurant charges less than $70 with drinks? If your time is truly valuable, then Task Rabbit is for you.

[DonRocks]

C'mon man. That's a ludicrous response. You have time to row, you have time to stand in line.

Btw, what other 4 star restaurant charges less than $70 with drinks? If your time is truly valuable, then Task Rabbit is for you.

I tend to agree with this, *but* ...

What is the societal norm for having someone else stand in line for you, then trading places with them at the very front of the line? I honestly don't know, but I can see people behind getting ticked off about it - I can picture someone thinking this is a form of butting in line, not quite the same, but related.

For example, how many of us *haven't* had someone next to us in line say, "Excuse me, I have to go to the bathroom - would you remember I was here when I return?" And of course something like that is never a problem, but this seems different. It feels sort of like scalping tickets to me, but I'm not sure why, and I'm not even sure if there's anything wrong with that, but I know that some people - including performers themselves - have a problem with it.

[Waitman]

C'mon man. That's a ludicrous response. You have time to row, you have time to stand in line.

Btw, what other 4 star restaurant charges less than $70 with drinks? If your time is truly valuable, then Task Rabbit is for you.

And indeed there will be time

For the yellow smoke that slides along the street,

Rubbing its back upon the window-panes;

There will be time, there will be time

To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet;

There will be time to murder and create,

And time for all the works and days of hands

That lift and drop a question on your plate;

Time for you and time for me,

And time yet for a hundred indecisions,

And for a hundred visions and revisions,

Before the taking of a toast and tea.

 

Rowing is my hobby, I enjoy doing it and consider it a productive use of my time. No one pretends to treat me as a "guest" (I wonder if I should have my guests queue for an hour or so before I serve them dinner this Sunday) and FWIW, practice is structured to try to accommodate team members' other lives as much as possible.  Standing in line is a chore for me and an impossibility for some others.   it's a chore that a restaurant could choose to eliminate.  And Rose's reasonable prices are also the product of many other factors including fast turns, inexpensive furnishings and decor, crowding, etc.  And if I'm -- per your suggestion -- resorting to TaskRabbit, the cost of dinner rises rapidly, no?

 

Again, Rose's can do what it wants.  I've eaten there (though, before the cult became so widespread --  I probably queued less than 10 minutes in two visits), it's a great place.  I might even go back.  But, please, don't try to persuade me that standing in line is to my (or anyone's)  advantage, a hospitable experience, or an unavoidable cost of dining out.  It's not.  

[The Hersch]

I tend to agree with this, *but* ...

What is the societal norm for having someone else stand in line for you, then trading places with them at the very front of the line? I honestly don't know, but I can see people behind getting ticked off about it - I can picture someone thinking this is a form of butting in line, not quite the same, but related.

For example, how many of us *haven't* had someone next to us in line say, "Excuse me, I have to go to the bathroom - would you remember I was here when I return?" And of course something like that is never a problem, but this seems different. It feels sort of like scalping tickets to me, but I'm not sure why, and I'm not even sure if there's anything wrong with that, but I know that some people - including performers themselves - have a problem with it.

It seems to me sort of like those, er, people who park their shopping carts in the queue at the supermarket and then go back to do some more shopping, expecting others in the queue to respect the time the shopping cart sat waiting as if the customer had waited with it. Or getting out of the Civil War draft by paying someone else to take your place. Or something. I will never experience this particular form of the behavior because I won't stand in line to get into any restaurant ever.

[squidsdc]

I'm both in favor of, and annoyed by the no reservation policy , but I think it's legitimate for Tom to give the place 4 stars for the food and service. Or to put it another way, I don't think it's fair to expect him to dock them a half star or a full star because you have to wait in line.

Is this any different the hassles and expense of driving and parking at some place downtown? There are lots of places with little or no street parking so you're stuck paying 10 bucks an hour and walking 4 blocks for the privilege of eating somewhere. I abandoned a dinner in Georgetown last weekend with my parents because of the gridlock traffic and lack of parking options (they can't get around so well, so a long walk was out of the question and the traffic was so bad we quickly gave up trying to turn around to drop them off right in front of the place). Should The Grill Room get penalized for any of that?

Based on how TS reviews other establishments, I think it is warranted to take a rating down a half star for the need to wait hours in line, as it takes away from the dining "experience." As I said in the other thread, since he'll dock a restaurant half a star for decor, why not in this instance? And it's HIS opinion on decor that docks the rating. Not all individuals agree with his assessments on interiors, and not all agree that waiting in a line such as RL demands, is a downside to an evening out. FWIW, personally, I don't agree that decor should knock a star rating if a restaurant's food is exceptional so it miffs me to see him give 4 stars in this situation. I would not choose to pay extra for someone to wait in line for me, and dining out is difficult enough that I would not line up for hours to do so. That's what makes horse races, as they say.

[DonRocks]

It seems to me sort of like those, er, people who park their shopping carts in the queue at the supermarket and then go back to do some more shopping, expecting others in the queue to respect the time the shopping cart sat waiting as if the customer had waited with it. Or getting out of the Civil War draft by paying someone else to take your place. Or something. I will never experience this particular form of the behavior because I won't stand in line to get into any restaurant ever.

On the surface, the things you describe sound incredibly selfish, but in reality, what's the difference between the shopping-cart manoeuvre, and Great American Restaurant Group's call-ahead policy? When you call, they put your name on the wait list, so you're essentially waiting without even being in the restaurant.

(I know how *I* would answer this, but I'm curious to see what others say.)

[The Hersch]

On the surface, the things you describe sound incredibly selfish, but in reality, what's the difference between the shopping-cart manoeuvre, and Great American Restaurant Group's call-ahead policy? When you call, they put your name on the wait list, so you're essentially waiting without even being in the restaurant.

(I know how *I* would answer this, but I'm curious to see what others say.)

I think there's a categorical-imperative argument to be made here, albeit a facile and probably illegitimate one in Kantian terms. If everyone availed themselves of the GAR call-ahead policy, it would work all the better. If everyone at the supermarket used their shopping carts to wait in line for them, the system would break down completely.

[Ericandblueboy]

Again, Rose's can do what it wants. I've eaten there (though, before the cult became so widespread -- I probably queued less than 10 minutes in two visits), it's a great place. I might even go back. But, please, don't try to persuade me that standing in line is to my (or anyone's) advantage, a hospitable experience, or an unavoidable cost of dining out. It's not.

I was just saying let's not get into who has time to do what. I sometimes have to multi-task while I'm on the shitter but I found time to eat at Rose's ;-)

[Bart]

But, please, don't try to persuade me that standing in line is to my (or anyone's)  advantage, a hospitable experience, or an unavoidable cost of dining out.  It's not.  

The one advantage is you can eat there anytime you feel like it. . You can eat there tonight* if you want to.  You may have to spend some time in line to do it, but you can do it.  You can't do that at Rasika.....they're booked out for weeks.   So there is some advantage to it.  On the other hand, you can never just walk right in at sit at "your" table like you can with your Rasika reservation that you made a couple weeks ago.

* Let's pretend I posted this at 9 in the morning and not 9 at night

[Bart]

Based on how TS reviews other establishments, I think it is warranted to take a rating down a half star for the need to wait hours in line, as it takes away from the dining "experience." As I said in the other thread, since he'll dock a restaurant half a star for decor, why not in this instance? And it's HIS opinion on decor that docks the rating. Not all individuals agree with his assessments on interiors, and not all agree that waiting in a line such as RL demands, is a downside to an evening out. FWIW, personally, I don't agree that decor should knock a star rating if a restaurant's food is exceptional so it miffs me to see him give 4 stars in this situation. I would not choose to pay extra for someone to wait in line for me, and dining out is difficult enough that I would not line up for hours to do so. That's what makes horse races, as they say.

I see your point on this and I'm starting to change my view.

If I take my Rasika vs Rose's example above, an evening at Rasika is a lot more pleasant than one at Rose's.  It takes more planning and forethought, but the entire experience will be a 4 star event.  Rose's has a built in grind you have to endure before the pleasure starts so maybe that is worth half a star?

Then again, if I'm willing to pay to park my car or take an Uber to enhance my dining experience, is paying a line-stander any more of a hassle?

Of course, at Rose's you can do it all!  Pay to park your car, pay to not wait in line, and then pay for your food!

[DonRocks]

I sometimes have to multi-task while I'm on the shitter

 

[i beseech you to spare us the imagery. ]

[Pool Boy]

To be clear, I don't think any restaurant is obligated to take reservations, accommodate vegans, let you tie your dog to cafe railing, stock your brand of bourbon, turn the music down (or up) throw a screen around breastfeeding moms, welcome breastfeeding moms, stick a changing table in the bathroom, or pretty much do anything aside from serve what they say they're serving and not poison you.  

I completely agree.

As for Rose's Luxury and other places that have taken to the policy of 'No Reservations', well, they are a business and that is their choice. While the food is almost without a doubt better than Olive Garden or Fridays, standing in line makes me feel like I am at one of those places. I am sure that there are probably better days and times of day to go to get in to one of these places without a wait (or at least something remotely reasonable, say 5 to 10 minutes). It is certainly within the power of anyone who wants to eat at one of these places to seek this information out and go dine there when they can get in quickly. I may even try to figure that out someday to try Rose's or Little Serow. Who knows?

But I have plenty of options in this city, and a good number of options are those places that do take reservations, and they often have them at times I prefer (say anywhere between 8 and 9PM) where all it takes is a little foresight and planning to secure. That is what I prefer and that is what I largely do,

We all make choices. People who want better vegan options go to places that do a good job of that more often than not I would imagine. Don't like the cocktails at Restaurant ABC? Go to someplace that does have cocktails you like. It is all pretty easy to go places that fit all or most of your preferences and avoid those places that meet known or just a few of your preferences. Are you missing out on something other people are experiencing? Sure, but you like what you like, and you do what you do. That it, that's it, that's all there is.