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But, bigger tips when you're in a large party? I will respectfully listen to anybody currently on the floor, but when I was waiting, we used to consider those things cash cows. Much better to run one large party, especially if they have a set menu, than four little ones.

More often than not, I think it's easier for a server to work a party. Whether it is more lucrative depends on the size of the party, the menu, and whether they're big drinkers. There may also be costs to the server for working parties that he or she would not encounter working the floor.

For example, at my old restaurant, for private-dining or large, scheduled events--which were the only ones that had an automatic, pre-tax, 20% gratuity--the breakdown of the 20% service charge was:
1% to the house (for which no one ever got an acceptable explanation)
2% to the private dining coordinator
1.5% to the bartender
1.5% to the bussers

Leaving 14 %of the pre-tax total for the server.

Not bad if you've got a drug company that's dropping $1250 for a party of 15 but not so good if you've got a birthday dinner whose bill will total $800. Personally, I preferred working private parties, especially when the liaison or host understood the nature of the business. Edited by RWBooneJr.
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in europe, when the service is included isn't it more like 10% than 20? we always leave some cash. i wouldn't have a problem with 20% being included at a restaurant like citronelle or eve, but would be concerned about lesser copycats.

The going rate when I lived in places where "service y compris" was 10% and I deeply resented it, because like other forms of automatic wealth redistribution the built in service charge disincentivized the server.
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The one question no one asked was how much of that 20% actually goes to the floor staff. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the service charge is divided between the front and back of the house.

Question answered. The press release from the restaurant says that the service charge will be distributed among floor staff and kitchen staff.

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Yo - Hillgrrrl, you go!

But, bigger tips when you're in a large party? I will respectfully listen to anybody currently on the floor, but when I was waiting, we used to consider those things cash cows. Much better to run one large party, especially if they have a set menu, than four little ones.

[Rocks,
I know I am off topic for the thread, sorry.
Love, your woman behind the scenes]

I work it when I can wink.gif The reason why I suggest a generous tip, usually at least 20%, is because for the dinners I have put together the price is lower than what it would cost if the diner came in alone. The Eve dinner is a perfect example. We are getting the tasting for around $20 less than if we were dining in the tasting room on another night. Multiply that by 34 at 20% and that's around $128. It's the difference between an okay and good night. And that's without the alcohol.

Also, although the restaurants receive attention on our board, they are still helping me out by putting together events for you. Although the tip won't go to the Chef or Gm, whom I usually deal with, I feel it is a sign of our appreciation for all the effort that went into the dinner.
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Some people I know regularly tip more than 20% for good service.

I've been known to do so myself. :-)

Edited to note: At last, I'm a clam! A real, live clam!

I don't think tripewriter was suggesting that he tips less than 20% -- just that he has an issue with the new Per Se policy.

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Congrats to oliveDC on this shout out from Tom!

Tom Sietsema: Sounds like a good idea! Bits and pieces of what you're after can be found in various chats and blogs, but I know of no single source for all of your wishes.

A current favorite restaurant forum of mine: Metrocurean. It has nice images, well-written updates, and a personal voice.

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....The vegetarian tasting menu might also seem an obvious choice for my niece, the vegetarian. But my niece is a vegetarian who does not like vegetables and who, I realize in retrospect, was on the verge of being diagnosed as lactose-intolerant....

Geez... I think I'd just DRINK alot.

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....The vegetarian tasting menu might also seem an obvious choice for my niece, the vegetarian. But my niece is a vegetarian who does not like vegetables and who, I realize in retrospect, was on the verge of being diagnosed as lactose-intolerant....

Geez... I think I'd just DRINK alot.

All I can say is BRAVO Per Se - that was WAY beyond going beyond the call of duty! You know that party was the bain of the kitchen's existence for a week prior, all night, and are probably still experiencing nightmares!
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....The vegetarian tasting menu might also seem an obvious choice for my niece, the vegetarian. But my niece is a vegetarian who does not like vegetables and who, I realize in retrospect, was on the verge of being diagnosed as lactose-intolerant....

Geez... I think I'd just DRINK alot.

A vegetarian who doesn't like vegetables? WTF??

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A vegetarian who doesn't like vegetables? WTF??

That piece was either a fiendishly well-conceived satire or one of the most unintentionally revealing insights into the bureaucratic (sorry, civil servant) mind ever committed to paper. Pixels. Whatever.

"Not everyone at the dinner was family, and not all of our issues revolved around food."

No shit. :P

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That piece was either a fiendishly well-conceived satire or one of the most unintentionally revealing insights into the bureaucratic (sorry, civil servant) mind ever committed to paper. Pixels. Whatever.

"Not everyone at the dinner was family, and not all of our issues revolved around food."

No shit. :P

Stretch,

You are right. It was an idiotic post and Tom should have never posted an answer. A vegetarian who doesn't like vegetables? That's nuts.

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Stretch,

You are right. It was an idiotic post and Tom should have never posted an answer. A vegetarian who doesn't like vegetables? That's nuts.

You mock, but I have met a few people like that. Generally younger people, but at least one adult. They live on starch, and wonder why they have no energy.

Their morals have obviously over-ridden their common sense.

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Stretch,

You are right. It was an idiotic post and Tom should have never posted an answer. A vegetarian who doesn't like vegetables? That's nuts.

I used to work with a vegetarian who didn't like vegetables. He lived on sugar and starch. Vegetarian options were also hugely popular at the UC Santa Cruz campus cafeteria, but that basically meant starches glopped with cheese and butter.

I'd love to see how Per Se would handle an acquaintance of mine who has a lengthly list of food allergies which changes periodically. The dietary requirements of the poster's party pales compared to this guy's.

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I used to work with a vegetarian who didn't like vegetables. He lived on sugar and starch. Vegetarian options were also hugely popular at the UC Santa Cruz campus cafeteria, but that basically meant starches glopped with cheese and butter.

Second that. 'Everybody' was thrilled when they put in a dedicated vegetarian food stand at the GW food court, complete with a vegetarian chef they hired from somewhere (non-Aramark, I think was the point). The most popular dish? The loaded mashed potatoes. Granted, they were legitimately pretty good...
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I would be interested to hear how chefs feel when asked to accommodate vegetarians at restaurants that do not specifically cater to that type of cuisine. Speaking only for myself, I equate asking a restaurant to create items for me that are not on the menu to be the same as going to a French restaurant and asking them to prepare a Thai dish. Alternatively, if I didn't like Thai food and went with friends to a Thai restaurant, I wouldn't expect them to whip up a burger or mac & cheese for me. While I understand that carnivores and non-carnivores do socialize and dine together and most restaurants do offer veg items, I do seem to hear often from chef friends that they find themselves asked to prepare different veg items from the ones offered on a rather frequent basis.

Just my opinion....

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I would be interested to hear how chefs feel when asked to accommodate vegetarians at restaurants that do not specifically cater to that type of cuisine.  Speaking only for myself, I equate asking a restaurant to create items for me that are not on the menu to be the same as going to a French restaurant and asking them to prepare a Thai dish.  Alternatively, if I didn't like Thai food and went with friends to a Thai restaurant, I wouldn't expect them to whip up a burger or mac & cheese for me.  While I understand that carnivores and non-carnivores do socialize and dine together and most restaurants do offer veg items, I do seem to hear often from chef friends that they find themselves asked to prepare different veg items from the ones offered on a rather frequent basis.

Just my opinion....

I think most restaurants try to accomodate any reasonable request. It is the unreasonable requests that seem to get the most publicity on the chats. I recall a customer calling the morning of her reservation to say that she is ovo-lacto. That is easy enough to accomodate. When she arrived for dinner, she expected a printed menu showing her the choices she could make. When there was no such menu for her, things went quickly downhill. The waiter went to the chef 5 separate times to find out what he would make, all of which were vetoed by this customer. They ended up leaving. Reasonable or unreasonable?

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I think it is unreasonble for a vegatarian or someone with "special dietary concerns" to expect that a restaurant will go out of its way to prepare special food for them. It is above and beyond the call of duty when a restaurant does so. It takes a lot of work and preparation for a restaurant to execute its existing menu. If someone has a special dietary need or is a vegatarian, the most they should expect from the restaurant is to have someone point out for them the things on the existing menu that meet their needs.

The people who walked out because the restaurant would not prepare special food for them--piss on 'em. Restaurants have menus, they generally are not in the custom food preparation business. That is what a home kitchen is for.

I'll be OK in a few minutes.

[This topic deserves its own thread.]

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I would be interested to hear how chefs feel when asked to accommodate vegetarians at restaurants that do not specifically cater to that type of cuisine.  Speaking only for myself, I equate asking a restaurant to create items for me that are not on the menu to be the same as going to a French restaurant and asking them to prepare a Thai dish. Alternatively, if I didn't like Thai food and went with friends to a Thai restaurant, I wouldn't expect them to whip up a burger or mac & cheese for me.  While I understand that carnivores and non-carnivores do socialize and dine together and most restaurants do offer veg items, I do seem to hear often from chef friends that they find themselves asked to prepare different veg items from the ones offered on a rather frequent basis.

Just my opinion....

I agree with Mark, most places will try to accomadate, BUT with some warning preferably.

(At least) one of our members has a veritable laundry list of allergies. I have never heard of her having a problem when she calls the restaurant the day before or so, during off hours, and describing her eating limitations to the chef and/or manager.

Most places have at least one veggie entree. If you're a veg who worries about not liking that entree at least put some research into it and do the same.

To me, a veg walking in off the street and asking for something totally different than what is on the menu is rather unreasonable.

Edit to add - Of course if you're a well-liked regular than the above isn't necessarily true. Although, if you're too demanding, you may still be a regular, but you will no longer be well-liked. If you're not well-liked, then your status as a regular is probably pretty threatened, too.

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It would help if more restaurants offered interesting veg options, a failing oft mentioned on Sietsema's chats. Pasta primavera must get terribly dull after a while.

Reading the chats makes me feel almost guilty sometimes. I honestly can't remember any encounters with thoroughly rude servers/managers. Incompetent yes, sometimes entertainingly so, but never rude. Now I'm feeling slighted! What, I'm not worthy of your hostility?

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And speaking of critics in disguises...

Last Wed night, an incredibly difficult customer unhappy with anything and generally spouting misery typically seen only in chronically oversexed and under-@#$-ed crowd....departing with "you should have been nicer to me. I'm a new Washington Post Food Editor."

Bwahahahaha.

OpenTable history promptly updated.

Stretch, thank you for helpful suggestions on same.

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And speaking of critics in disguises...

Last Wed night, an incredibly difficult customer unhappy with anything and generally spouting misery typically seen only in chronically oversexed and under-@#$-ed crowd....departing with "you should have been nicer to me. I'm a new Washington Post Food Editor."

Bwahahahaha.

OpenTable history promptly updated.

Stretch, thank you for helpful suggestions on same.

Do food editors for the Washington Post get involved in restaurant reviews? What a pompous douche bag.

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And speaking of critics in disguises...

Last Wed night, an incredibly difficult customer unhappy with anything and generally spouting misery typically seen only in chronically oversexed and under-@#$-ed crowd....departing with "you should have been nicer to me. I'm a new Washington Post Food Editor."

Bwahahahaha.

OpenTable history promptly updated.

Stretch, thank you for helpful suggestions on same.

Have you called this person via the Post's main number to see if he or she actually is, in fact, working for the Food section?

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Any truth to the chatter's report that Reidel's is gone?

I liked their brisket, especially for carry-out.

I know Mr. BLB had carry-out a few times while I was away two weeks ago.

Sigh...

Jennifer

Tom posted at the end of the chat that they're only closed for renovations. Breathe easy, your brisket is safe!

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I think it is unreasonble for a vegatarian or someone with "special dietary concerns" to expect that a restaurant will go out of its way to prepare special food for them.  It is above and beyond the call of duty when a restaurant does so.  It takes a lot of work and preparation for a restaurant to execute its existing menu.  If someone has a special dietary need or is a vegatarian, the most they should expect from the restaurant is to have someone point out for them the things on the existing menu that meet their needs. 

The people who walked out because the restaurant would not prepare special food for them--piss on 'em.  Restaurants have menus, they generally are not in the custom food preparation business. That is what a home kitchen is for.

I'll be OK in a few minutes.

[This topic deserves its own thread.]

As an ovo-lacto vegetarian who does it out of a dislike of meat, I have to say sometimes I want to shake my fellow veg-heads by the shoulders until their teeth rattle. They're so snotty and demanding it makes me want to scream, and they try to glorify their self-absorption by portraying it as some grand mission. Bzzzt! Wrong, but thank you for playing.

I don't expect chefs to blow a lot of time trying to bend over backwards to meet the conflicting requirements of the different varieties of vegetarians. As long as all the side dishes aren't loaded with salty-ass chicken broth or bacon grease (et al), I am perfectly happy to dine on a selection of those!

As far as I'm concerned, going into a restaurant and demanding they concoct a vegetarian item (much less menu) for your pleasure is comparable to going into a restaurant and demanding they create a gluten-free, milk-free, or kosher/halal menu just for your precious little self.

If the restaurant doesn't make food you want, guess what? You always have the option to go somewhere else!

climbs down off soapbox

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As an ovo-lacto vegetarian who does it out of a dislike of meat, I have to say sometimes I want to shake my fellow veg-heads by the shoulders until their teeth rattle. They're so snotty and demanding it makes me want to scream, and they try to glorify their self-absorption by portraying it as some grand mission. Bzzzt! Wrong, but thank you for playing.

I don't expect chefs to blow a lot of time trying to bend over backwards to meet the conflicting requirements of the different varieties of vegetarians. As long as all the side dishes aren't loaded with salty-ass chicken broth or bacon grease (et al), I am perfectly happy to dine on a selection of those!

As far as I'm concerned, going into a restaurant and demanding they concoct a vegetarian item (much less menu) for your pleasure is comparable to going into a restaurant and demanding they create a gluten-free, milk-free, or kosher/halal menu just for your precious little self.

If the restaurant doesn't make food you want, guess what? You always have the option to go somewhere else!

climbs down off soapbox

With friends like you...why pick on vegetarians? I don't think it is unreasonable to hope to find one or two vegetarian options on any menu, and in fact, I almost never see a menu without at least one vegetarian option. Of course it's unreasonable to expect a French restaurant to make you Thai food, etc., and the requests you mentioned are just silly, but that's irrelevant. Sometimes the group one is dining with selects the restaurant-almost any chef can prepare something a little different for a vegetarian-even Burger King does it. Any decent chef can and should adjust to his customers requests within reason.

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as i have always firmly believed with restaurants, its a matter of choice. There are so many choices out there, especially in this city, that you can pick and choose as you see fit. If you choose to be a vegetarian, do so, but thats your choice. Its the same as if you chosse to be a republican or a democrat, don't expect everyone else to conform to your ideals. Thats one of the great options in this country is the semi-freedom of choice. I used to be a vegetarian, it so happened that i was lucky enough to be in a city that had lots of options, but knowing that I still dined out at other restaurants where vegetarians were less than the first choice.

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Is it just me, or is anyone else having trouble getting the link to open??  Both from the Post website and the link above, it won't open the transcript and bounces back to the main "Live Discussions" home page.

Grrrrrrrrrr....

I was in the middle of reading the transcript when I got to a post that included someone's e-mail address. All of a sudden, the "Live Discussions" home page loaded up. I wonder if they took the transcript offline temporarily to remove the address.
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For me "changES" would not imply a job changE such as leaving the Post. I would guess that it may mean a new area of responsibility or input at the Post which would increase his imprint; this could also take the Post in something of a different direction in some areas, perhaps in response to Washingtonian's recent moves, perhaps in response to food boards such as these. Key, for me, is the Chat itself; he is the first major reviewer to do this. I believe this is one of several excellent means for "mining" the popularity of the internet which in turn reinforces his position in the community as well as allowing him the opportunity to appeal to a broader audience. Although this can be potentially risky I am surprised that more critics have not begun doing this. I give him real credit for being the first.

Anyway, this is nothing but vague speculation on my part.

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I hope T.S. isn't going anywhere else. Whatever changes are ahead, I hope they include D.C.

I believe his chats to be on the frontier of what many critics will be venturing into in the future. I think Craig LaBan of the Philadelphia Inquirer is slated to begin chats also. I'll be sure to follow that one as well.

Edited by monavano
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