Pairing 911

[Choirgirl21]

Not drinking anything yet today, but wondering what I'm going to have with my dinner tonight - risotto (standard - white wine, a little aged cheese) with sausage and fresh, local ramps. Probably going to throw in some baby kale and red pepper flakes, maybe a squirt of lemon juice as well. Any suggestions?

[Choirgirl21]

DR, you are crafty. To the point of spookiness. Or just confusion. Like the new thread though.

[Dave Pressley]

Not drinking anything yet today, but wondering what I'm going to have with my dinner tonight - risotto (standard - white wine, a little aged cheese) with sausage and fresh, local ramps. Probably going to throw in some baby kale and red pepper flakes, maybe a squirt of lemon juice as well. Any suggestions?

Drink the rest of the wine you used to make the risotto!

[youngfood]

Can anyone recommed a good wine pairing for grilled pork with mole? I'm drawing blanks. Maybe an Oregon Pinot or a Tempranillo?

[KMango]

Can anyone recommed a good wine pairing for grilled pork with mole? I'm drawing blanks. Maybe an Oregon Pinot or a Tempranillo?

How open are you to pairing with a beer instead? Something Mexican.

Kind of a malting and brewing equivalent of "If it grows together, it goes together".

[DonRocks]

Not drinking anything yet today, but wondering what I'm going to have with my dinner tonight - risotto (standard - white wine, a little aged cheese) with sausage and fresh, local ramps. Probably going to throw in some baby kale and red pepper flakes, maybe a squirt of lemon juice as well. Any suggestions?

White Rioja

Can anyone recommed a good wine pairing for grilled pork with mole? I'm drawing blanks. Maybe an Oregon Pinot or a Tempranillo?

Red Rioja

[jparrott]

What Don said. Try to find the ones imported by Jonas Gustafsson.

[Mrs. B]

Can anyone recommed a good wine pairing for grilled pork with mole? I'm drawing blanks. Maybe an Oregon Pinot or a Tempranillo?

How spicy is your mole? If you are open to a white wine you might consider a torrontes or a riesling. I find the slightly fruity and aromatic characteristics of these wine pair nicely with spicy food.

KMango's suggestion for beer is quite good too.

[dmwine]

Try to find the ones imported by Jonas Gustafsson.

I read about him somewhere recently ...

PS - I vote for Tempranillo, too.

[jparrott]

What Mrs. B said.

Man I'm feeling agreeable today. Must've been brekkie at Honey Pig with a visiting dignitary

[zoramargolis]

How spicy is your mole? If you are open to a white wine you might consider a torrontes or a riesling. I find the slightly fruity and aromatic characteristics of these wine pair nicely with spicy food.

KMango's suggestion for beer is quite good too.

I recommend beer or zinfandel.

[Choirgirl21]

Well since the suggestions came 2 days late I had to come up with my own idea - I went with a pinot since I really wanted red and the sausage I was using was forest fed so very rich in flavor. It wasn't an outstanding pairing but the dish was really great and the wine was quite good for the price (Praxis pinot - $18).

Drink the rest of the wine you used to make the risotto!

My problem is I usually drink the rest while I'm cooking. Okay, that's not entirely true although I do usually have a glass - I almost always use Anakena sauv blanc - which is dirt cheap while still being quaffable imo ($7), but not a good choice for this dish - I did try them together just to be sure.

[mdt]

Well since the suggestions came 2 days late I had to come up with my own idea - I went with a pinot since I really wanted red and the sausage I was using was forest fed so very rich in flavor. It wasn't an outstanding pairing but the dish was really great and the wine was quite good for the price (Praxis pinot - $18).

My problem is I usually drink the rest while I'm cooking. Okay, that's not entirely true although I do usually have a glass - I almost always use Anakena sauv blanc - which is dirt cheap while still being quaffable imo ($7), but not a good choice for this dish - I did try them together just to be sure.

So the wine that you used to make the risotto did not go with the finished dish?

[Choirgirl21]

So the wine that you used to make the risotto did not go with the finished dish?

Nope, not in this case.

[leleboo]

So the wine that you used to make the risotto did not go with the finished dish?

Nope, not in this case.

No, ok, not to be a pain, but: how is that possible?

[Choirgirl21]

No, ok, not to be a pain, but: how is that possible?

It was just one component of many in the dish?

It was risotto, with forest fed sausage (if you've never actually had pork from Forest Fed it's hard to explain how incredibly meaty and rich his pork is) that was sauteed in butter, then set aside so I could saute the ramps in the resulting fat/butter mixture, which the rice then got added to, then the wine and chicken stock, and the risotto was finished with grated parm. Even with the addition of kale and lemon juice ,the dish was incredibly rich and fatty. The wine wasn't terrible with it, I don't believe I ever said that (if I did, I apologize), but it certainly wasn't enhanced in any way by the food or vice versa.

I don't know, would you pair a sauv blanc with that dish if you didn't know I had cooked with it? I wouldn't. The acidity was right to cut the fat, but otherwise, the flavors weren't.

I didn't realize it would be so unbelievable that a wine used in a dish wouldn't go well with it. If I used it in a pan sauce, I would get that, but I don't claim to be any sort of expert in wine pairing either.

Or, ignore all of that and my alternative answer is:it's a $7 bottle of wine? I dunno.

BTW, I hope I don't sound pissy in any way. If I do, it's b/c I've had a get-the-shit-kicked-out-of-you sort of day, not directed at you. I'm always happy to engage in a good debate about food or wine. On that note, off to eat my overcooked steak paired (I'm certain improperly) with some leftover zin.

[leleboo]

It was just one component of many in the dish?

...

BTW, I hope I don't sound pissy in any way.

Don't sound pissy at all. I probably just would have used a fuller white in cooking, or even the red -- but there's no rule I'm right!

[youngfood]

I asked what to drink with grilled pork chops with mole:

Red Rioja

What Don said. Try to find the ones imported by Jonas Gustafsson.

I read about him somewhere recently ...

PS - I vote for Tempranillo, too.

Great minds think alike and when they do they are often quite right. This was the perfect pairing and another reason I love DR.com. Thanks very much.

[Choirgirl21]

Don't sound pissy at all. I probably just would have used a fuller white in cooking, or even the red -- but there's no rule I'm right!

Good to know. I have been known to be misunderstood online.

I think you're right on the last point, but I have to admit, I only cook with that one white wine. Am actually strangely caught off guard - do people keep multiple types of white on hand to cook with? I settled on that one a while ago for being inexpensive and not offensive to drink alone - am slightly horrified I may have been sabotaging my cooking all this time (half kidding at least).

[zoramargolis]

I think you're right on the last point, but I have to admit, I only cook with that one white wine. Am actually strangely caught off guard - do people keep multiple types of white on hand to cook with? I settled on that one a while ago for being inexpensive and not offensive to drink alone - am slightly horrified I may have been sabotaging my cooking all this time (half kidding at least).

I follow Julia Child's advice (WWJD) and keep a bottle of decent dry vermouth on hand, for those times when a splash or a small amount of white wine is needed--have used dry vermouth often for making risotto, and it is just fine. If I have a partial bottle of white wine in the fridge, and it will work in that particular recipe, I use that. But it is only when I need a large amount of white wine--like for chicken stock--that I will open a bottle. Vermouth has the great advantage of not oxidizing or going flat and tasteless once the bottle has been opened. I save the (comparatively expensive) Dolin for Martinis, but Stock or Cinzano, M&R or Bouissiere all work just fine. It does get boiled, after all.

[mdt]

I follow Julia Child's advice (WWJD) and keep a bottle of decent dry vermouth on hand, for those times when a splash or a small amount of white wine is needed--have used dry vermouth often for making risotto, and it is just fine. If I have a partial bottle of white wine in the fridge, and it will work in that particular recipe, I use that. But it is only when I need a large amount of white wine--like for chicken stock--that I will open a bottle. Vermouth has the great advantage of not oxidizing or going flat and tasteless once the bottle has been opened. I save the (comparatively expensive) Dolin for Martinis, but Stock or Cinzano, M&R or Bouissiere all work just fine. It does get boiled, after all.

Did not realize that Julia recommended using vermouth, but I have been doing for a while and it works great.

[Pat]

Did not realize that Julia recommended using vermouth, but I have been doing for a while and it works great.

So have I. I had thought I was so smart figuring it out, and then I found out that she recommended it years ago . I also sometimes substitute it for red wine, depending on what I'm making.

[Choirgirl21]

I follow Julia Child's advice (WWJD) and keep a bottle of decent dry vermouth on hand, for those times when a splash or a small amount of white wine is needed--have used dry vermouth often for making risotto, and it is just fine.

The recipe I used as inspiration actually called for vermouth, but I didn't have it on hand and did have the wine (no time to go to the store either), but I plan to buy a bottle next time I'm at the liquor store to do this in the future. Thanks for the suggestion.

New question - does anyone have a good recipe for an asian-themed cocktail, maybe something made with sake? Our potluck dinner club is tomorrow and I'm in charge of cocktail hour. Our theme is asian and I'm serving a few "snacks" while I prepare the first course and people drink their cocktails - probably some different pickles (quick pickled cukes, pickled asian pair, daikon, etc.) and shichimi popcorn (just popcorn tossed wtih butter, salt and shichimi powder). Any suggestions are appreciated.

[Joe Riley]

I remember reading once a long time ago that a noted wine authority had an amusing message on his answering machine that went something like this:

"I'm not home right now, please leave a message at the sound of the beep. If this is an emergency, remember: red wine with meat, white wine with fish."

[DanCole42]

North Carolina pulled pork w/ Lexington sauce

Beers?

[jparrott]

Beers, of course. Or Lambrusco! There are some really killer ones out there now.

[Sthitch]

North Carolina pulled pork w/ Lexington sauce

Beers?

Lambrusco would certainly work quite well, but lately I have found great success serving tempranillo roses with BBQ (both pulled pork and ribs).

[DanCole42]

Beers, of course. Or Lambrusco! There are some really killer ones out there now.

Yes, but what KIND of beer?

Had a Domion dortmunder lager, that seemed to work well...

[Rovers2000]

In my opinion you can't go wrong with some Shiner Bock to go with BBQ

[ol_ironstomach]

In my opinion you can't go wrong with some Shiner Bock to go with BBQ

Seconded. Shiner can stand with any of the multiple meats they 'que in Texas; it ought to do just fine with Carolina pork.

[MMM]

What wine do you like with French onion soup? My recipe calls for some red wine in the soup, but I'm leaning towards drinking white with it.

[Rhone1998]

I love just a nice cotes du rhone with my French onion soup. I always make mine very dark (very caramelized onions) and with a lot of thyme and find those flavors work really well with the CDR.

[jparrott]

What wine do you like with French onion soup? My recipe calls for some red wine in the soup, but I'm leaning towards drinking white with it.

Amontillado!

[Mark Slater]

Amontillado!

I've always thought drinking wine with soup was weird. Jake has the right idea, though. Sherry, or try some Rainwater Madeira for something tasty and different.

[jparrott]

Jake has the right idea

I'm framing this post.

[Pat]

What wine do you like with French onion soup? My recipe calls for some red wine in the soup, but I'm leaning towards drinking white with it.

Wine Pairing: What to drink with French onion soup.

I can't believe I actually remembered where I saw this .

[Waitman]

I love just a nice cotes du rhone with my French onion soup. I always make mine very dark (very caramelized onions) and with a lot of thyme and find those flavors work really well with the CDR.

Drink whatever you like. The whole paring thing is wildly overrated. That being said, I'd go with a Rhone (because I so rarely have a decent Madeira around the house).

[MMM]

Thanks for all the good suggestions (and the entertaining repartee). Think I'll go with pinot gris, because I have a few bottles on hand, and of course it really does not matter that much. We're just having a couple of friends over to help decorate the tree - and eat onion soup (but, the soup is the heart of the meal and I didn't want to drink something that would clash horribly).

[kmm]

For what it's worth I really like Alsatian pinot gris with onion tart. A very classic pairing and depending on the soup I would try that. However, I would do a drier Alsatian so I'd go with the basic Trimbach instead of say a basic Zind Humbrecht.

Good luck!

[DonRocks]

Drink whatever you like. The whole paring thing is wildly overrated.

It is not overrated. Try a Thai green papaya salad with a $5,000 bottle of 1982 Lafite; then try it with a $20 bottle of Riesling Spätlese, and see which one is better.

[Mark Slater]

It is not overrated. Try a Thai green papaya salad with a $5,000 bottle of 1982 Lafite; then try it with a $20 bottle of Riesling Spätlese, and see which one is better.

Or try a $3,000 bottle of 2005 Montrachet Domaine de la Romanée Conti (or any big, fat, buttery chardonnay) with Lamb Vindaloo or fettucine Bolognese instead of chilled Beaujolais Cru and see how you like it.

[leleboo]

It is not overrated. Try a Thai green papaya salad with a $5,000 bottle of 1982 Lafite; then try it with a $20 bottle of Riesling Spätlese, and see which one is better.

Or try a $3,000 bottle of 2005 Montrachet Domaine de la Romanée Conti (or any big, fat, buttery chardonnay) with Lamb Vindaloo or fettucine Bolognese instead of chilled Beaujolais Cru and see how you like it.

I'm game. I assume the two of you are setting these tastings up gratis, then, right?

(PS Mark: tagliatelle Bolognese, really, no? )

[Waitman]

Drink whatever you like. The whole paring thing is wildly overrated. That being said, I'd go with a Rhone (because I so rarely have a decent Madeira around the house).

It is not overrated. Try a Thai green papaya salad with a $5,000 bottle of 1982 Lafite; then try it with a $20 bottle of Riesling Spätlese, and see which one is better.

Or try a $3,000 bottle of 2005 Montrachet Domaine de la Romanée Conti (or any big, fat, buttery chardonnay) with Lamb Vindaloo or fettucine Bolognese instead of chilled Beaujolais Cru and see how you like it.

Two real-world examples that I struggle with almost every week!

I didn't say that pairings were useless, I just said that they were overrated. Yes, generally some wines go better with some food. But, in matching, one's own taste and preferences and mood are far more important than some expert opinion regarding the appropriate wine with a particular dish. This is why Ray's serves nine different steaks and a hundred different wines. Some days, the discerning customer might feel a bit Zin-ish. Another day, the same cut might call out for a Malbec. Is one a better apiring than the other? I would suggest "no."

Besides, I was taught by a sommeliere at a very pricey French restaurant that damn near everything goes with either a white Rhone or a red Burgundy.

Not that don't appreciate a solid suggestion from a Knowledgeable Wine Professional. Just that what I, or my guests, or my wife is in the mood for, is more important than what "experts" prescribe.

[Mark Slater]

Just that what I, or my guests, or my wife is in the mood for, is more important than what "experts" prescribe.

Even if the wine tastes really, really awful because of the food?

[Waitman]

Even if the wine tastes really, really awful because of the food?

First, who says it tastes awful? You, or the person drinking it?

And second, it's not the idea that I don't think that there are generally some good rules of thumb to follow -- when Nava Thai gets their Bordeaux list up to snuff, I will definitively not be ordering the Lafite -- it's that when matching becomes an angst-inspiring search for the Platonic ideal that I feel like things are getting out of hand. It's a bowl of onion soup! I want a Rhone, my wife wants a glass of Chenin Blanc and my guest wants a tot of Rainwater. Who's right?

And, aside from Rasika, when am I ever going to have to worry that my Vindaloo steps on my white Burgundy?

[DonRocks]

How about the world-class and who-the-hell-knew pairing I discovered tonight: a well-poured Guinness Stout with rich deviled eggs? No wine would have cut through the dairy (and mustard) as well as this stout did. And the Guinness took on a sweet component that wasn't there on its own. There's your real-world example.

[Waitman]

How about the world-class and who-the-hell-knew pairing I discovered tonight: a well-poured Guinness Stout with rich deviled eggs? No wine would have cut through the dairy (and mustard) as well as this stout did. And the Guinness took on a sweet component that wasn't there on its own. There's your real-world example.

A fine example, but I dislike stout. So, a fine pairing for you is a non-starter for me. If I get something different, am I less sophisticated than you, or is my pairing less "correct?" Or are we all just having a good time with eggs and booze and -- barring a truly-unfortunate Asian food/French wine pairing -- enjoy the combinations according to our own taste, as the Good Lord meant us too?

[Barbara]

Even if the wine tastes really, really awful because of the food?

Or worse, the food tastes really, really awful because of the wine? I'm sure I have written about this someplace on this board. Nevertheless, I spent a couple of Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners at a friend's house where the "champagne" served with dinner was actually Asti Spumante. No, really. Now, I am usually happy to sit back and drink a glass or three of that. But not with a turkey dinner. It absolutely wrecked the food.

[DonRocks]

enjoy the combinations according to our own taste, as the Good Lord meant us too?

Invoking the Good Lord as somehow being on your side in a discussion of wine pairings is truly putting the God in Godwin's Law.

[dmwine]

First, who says it tastes awful? You, or the person drinking it?

Years ago, I wrote a short piece for Wine Enthusiast on pairing wine with oysters. My muse was Michael Flynn, then of Kinkead's, who set me up with four dozen bivalves and several glasses of wine and proceeded to instruct me on the terroir of oysters. (At that point I was not an oyster slurper, and I prided myself for getting through that lesson without gagging or gout). For the article, I interviewed the manager of the Grand Central Oyster Bar in NYC, who told me of seeing an elderly Frenchman (he may have been wearing a beret, even, though my imagination could be adding that detail in retrospect) sitting at the bar, with a dozen oysters and a bottle of Chateau Margaux. Fearing that this pairing was an abomination, the manager asked how the customer was doing.

The gentleman smiled and said, "Life eeez bee-yoo-ti-ful."