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Pairing 911


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First, who says it tastes awful? You, or the person drinking it?

And second, it's not the idea that I don't think that there are generally some good rules of thumb to follow -- when Nava Thai gets their Bordeaux list up to snuff, I will definitively not be ordering the Lafite -- it's that when matching becomes an angst-inspiring search for the Platonic ideal that I feel like things are getting out of hand. It's a bowl of onion soup! I want a Rhone, my wife wants a glass of Chenin Blanc and my guest wants a tot of Rainwater. Who's right?

And, aside from Rasika, when am I ever going to have to worry that my Vindaloo steps on my white Burgundy?

Charles, it goes like this:

First, certain foods in combination with certain types of wine produce chemicals which most people will find unpleasant. Chardonnay with spaghetti sauce produces an appalling clash of acids in the mouth, turning the wine sour. Chardonnay with artichokes produces a chemical on the tongue which makes the wine turn uncomfortably sweet. This is not opinion; pretty much anyone can try it and make the same findings.

Second, there is no perfect match for every palate but there are some really simple, general suggestions that, if followed, will reduce or eliminate the angst-inspiring part of this exercise.

Finally, in reference to Rocks invocation of Godwin's Law, I am not a pairing-nazi; never have been, never will be. By all means, drink what you like.

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Charles, it goes like this:

First, certain foods in combination with certain types of wine produce chemicals which most people will find unpleasant. Chardonnay with spaghetti sauce produces an appalling clash of acids in the mouth, turning the wine sour. Chardonnay with artichokes produces a chemical on the tongue which makes the wine turn uncomfortably sweet. This is not opinion; pretty much anyone can try it and make the same findings.

Second, there is no perfect match for every palate but there are some really simple, general suggestions that, if followed, will reduce or eliminate the angst-inspiring part of this exercise.

Finally, in reference to Rocks invocation of Godwin's Law, I am not a pairing-nazi; never have been, never will be. By all means, drink what you like.

I hope I didn't imply that you were a pairing Nazi; I think Don was merely referring to my facetious invocation of The Almighty as a having a relaxed attitude towards pairings.

Having happily put myself oenologically in your hands on several occasions, I know first-hand that you are both knowledgeable and flexible -- an excellent table-side guide to the sometimes voluminous wine-lists you assemble.

My only point, is that the people get so caught up in the idea of serving the "right" wine, they forget that the point is to have fun, not measure up to some objective standard of perfection lest dinner be ruined and the customers at the next table sneer.

I rather admire the approach of the LaRousse Gastronomique which, in its Franco-centric wine and food tables offers up not one but four different varieties of wine to match a poultry entree and five for roasts (though only Chateau Margeaux is a match for unfermented cheese). Broad guidelines rather than prescriptive focus.

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Years ago, I wrote a short piece for Wine Enthusiast on pairing wine with oysters. My muse was Michael Flynn, then of Kinkead's, who set me up with four dozen bivalves and several glasses of wine and proceeded to instruct me on the terroir of oysters. (At that point I was not an oyster slurper, and I prided myself for getting through that lesson without gagging or gout). For the article, I interviewed the manager of the Grand Central Oyster Bar in NYC, who told me of seeing an elderly Frenchman (he may have been wearing a beret, even, though my imagination could be adding that detail in retrospect) sitting at the bar, with a dozen oysters and a bottle of Chateau Margaux. Fearing that this pairing was an abomination, the manager asked how the customer was doing.

The gentleman smiled and said, "Life eeez bee-yoo-ti-ful."

Let us also remember that the région of Bordeaux is on the Atlantic Ocean, and that Château Margaux makes 3,000 cases a year of a minerally Sauvignon Blanc that goes perfectly with that region's oysters from Arcachon and Cap Ferret.

Cheers,

Hitler.

NOW it's invoked! :)

P.S. Just trying to show some support for the "locapour" movement. which has been "moving" in France at an escargot's pace, for about ... 1,000 years or so. :)

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Let us also remember that the région of Bordeaux is on the Atlantic Ocean, and that Château Margaux makes 3,000 cases a year of a minerally Sauvignon Blanc that goes perfectly with that region's oysters from Arcachon and Cap Ferret.

Cheers,

Hitler.

NOW it's invoked! :)

P.S. Just trying to show some support for the "locapour" movement. which has been "moving" in France at an escargot's pace, for about ... 1,000 years or so. :)

Except he meant the red! :-)

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Let us also remember that the région of Bordeaux is on the Atlantic Ocean, and that Château Margaux makes 3,000 cases a year of a minerally Sauvignon Blanc that goes perfectly with that region's oysters from Arcachon and Cap Ferret.

Cheers,

Hitler.

NOW it's invoked! :)

P.S. Just trying to show some support for the "locapour" movement. :)

But wouldn't that be Pavillion Blanc de Margaux?

There are certain pairings that are a match made in heaven. Asparagus and Soave is one that comes to mind, where few other wines will do as well. Artichokes will screw up much more than Chardonnay and there a screamingly high acid white usually do the trick. Steak does better with something with astringency but that leaves a load of possibilities. Most coastal reds made in Italy do well with most fish dishes. Tocai and Ribolla have an affinity for tomato that most other whites don't have. I mean the list ain't that long and ain't that particular. The extreme of many of the counter examples goes to show Mr Sweeney's point, this ain't rocket science. While I would almost never have a rosso di Montalcino with a whole fish, I have seen enough folk do so that I can't say that either the fish or the wine f up the other, just that I would go in a different way.

But my one rule for matching is just to look at what the folk eat and drink in a given spot and that gives you a good idea of what works. Then if you ahve a dish that has a lot of the same characteristics but from a different place, the same wines will go with it. Hence my love of barbera with fried fish and anchovies. This method is especially true of places that have highly specific local cuisines such as Italy, as opposed to California where almost every cuisine and every grape varietal show up in most growing regions. But if you are a lover of soft reds, most barbera won't please you, no matter that they go well with fried fish.

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I propose a rethinking of the whole paradigm. At your average moderately priced restaurant (say Corduroy or New Heights) there are 100+ bottles of wine on the list and 6-10 apps and 6-10 entrees.

Smaller selection = easier choice. Pick the wine you want to drink first and then choose what you want to eat.

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When in doubt or when it's more than just the two of us at a restaurant with each ordering something different, my go-to wines are dry to slightly sweet Rieslings and Pinot Noirs. And I always choose half-bottles if available. I've also found Karen MacNeil's book, Wine, Food and Friends, a great resource for pairing potentials: My link

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This thread has gone quite philosophical since I last checked in. :) I find the dialogue interesting, but the comment that spurred it slightly displaced since the whole purpose of this thread was to receive input when looking for a specific pairing (ie. the implication being that the person posting has already "bought into" the whole wine/food thing, or actually just finds it credible). On that note, I am making a meatloaf tomorrow - ground pork & turkey, some fennel, white wine, that sort of thing, wrapped in bacon. Served with a side of mashed potatoes and sauteed celery, mushrooms and leeks.

Want a red wine. Normally I would choose pinot with these flavors, but it's meatloaf for god's sake, even if it's a twist on it so pinot seems too light to me.

No, really, if I allow myself to forget the meatloaf association, I would choose a sauvignon blanc with these flavors, but even if I were willing to abandon my red wine endeavor, I don't think I have any.

Thoughts?

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A friend is coming over for dinner tomorrow night and he is bringing a mature bottle of Barolo, what should I make? I prefer to grill but not a requirement. I have had only two mature Barolos, so I do not have much experience with them. Two years ago I had a '90 Altare that tasted like a mincemeat pie and a few months ago a '00 Brovia that tasted like a Smith Brothers cherry cough drop with orange peel.

Suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

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A friend is coming over for dinner tomorrow night and he is bringing a mature bottle of Barolo, what should I make? I prefer to grill but not a requirement. I have had only two mature Barolos, so I do not have much experience with them. Two years ago I had a '90 Altare that tasted like a mincemeat pie and a few months ago a '00 Brovia that tasted like a Smith Brothers cherry cough drop with orange peel.

Suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

Serve a mincemeat pie made with cherries and orange peel (or gnocchi with bacon and mushrooms).

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Having friends over for dinner. Making shrimp & spoonbread with red-eye gravy -- similar to the Epicurious recipe. The gravy has Madeira in it. . Most folks will probably choose beer for dinner, and I've got plenty of whites to choose from here at the house but am out of red wines to offer. Looking in the $15 or so price range. Suggestions appreciated!

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May be too late, but this sounds like gamay territory to me. Or maybe a Frappato from Sicily, though that may be hard in your price range.

Not too late :-) The dinner is Sunday night. I wanted to give time for ideas to come in before I went shopping. Thank you!

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Totally agree ... get any Beaujolais or Beaujolais-Villages imported by Elite Wines, Potomac Selections, or Wine Traditions (just call your retailer and ask).

A concensus! Perfect. Thank you thank you.

BTW, Don, I saw on the news that Va. vineyards' sales are up 11% over the past year. Let me just commend you on your prodigious efforts to fuel the local winemakers' and state's economy. I just hope you have the number to a liver specialist on speed-dial after 426000 cases.

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A concensus! Perfect. Thank you thank you.

BTW, Don, I saw on the news that Va. vineyards' sales are up 11% over the past year. Let me just commend you on your prodigious efforts to fuel the local winemakers' and state's economy. I just hope you have the number to a liver specialist on speed-dial after 426000 cases.

My liver specialist is Dr. David McIntyre. :mellow:

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My wife and I are dining in for Valentine's Day. Given our crazy work schedules of late, we are doing a carryout dinner from a local restaurant. One of the courses we are getting is a "Surf and Turf" of Filet Mignon and Jumbo-Lump Crabcake. What wine should I pair with it? Ideally, I would prefer red and am thinking Pinot Noir at the moment (I can't rember what all I have at home) but am open to all suggestions.

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Bourbon, neat until the ice comes, then chip some off for a slushie.

My mother and I once had an excellent time making frozen mint juleps in a blender.  By the time we had the proportions of everything in balance, neither of us cared anymore.

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Funny...we're doing much the same, with some fried chicken and pimento cheese thrown in the mix.  I have been aging some whiskey cocktails (Manhattans and Old Pals) with barrel char I picked up at the Willett distillery, but am also planning on plenty of beer and champagne.  I'm also feeling a white, maybe a Riesling?  I dunno...I imagine we'll try a little of everything I have around the house tomorrow  :rolleyes: .

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