Mark Slater Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 First, who says it tastes awful? You, or the person drinking it? And second, it's not the idea that I don't think that there are generally some good rules of thumb to follow -- when Nava Thai gets their Bordeaux list up to snuff, I will definitively not be ordering the Lafite -- it's that when matching becomes an angst-inspiring search for the Platonic ideal that I feel like things are getting out of hand. It's a bowl of onion soup! I want a Rhone, my wife wants a glass of Chenin Blanc and my guest wants a tot of Rainwater. Who's right? And, aside from Rasika, when am I ever going to have to worry that my Vindaloo steps on my white Burgundy? Charles, it goes like this: First, certain foods in combination with certain types of wine produce chemicals which most people will find unpleasant. Chardonnay with spaghetti sauce produces an appalling clash of acids in the mouth, turning the wine sour. Chardonnay with artichokes produces a chemical on the tongue which makes the wine turn uncomfortably sweet. This is not opinion; pretty much anyone can try it and make the same findings. Second, there is no perfect match for every palate but there are some really simple, general suggestions that, if followed, will reduce or eliminate the angst-inspiring part of this exercise. Finally, in reference to Rocks invocation of Godwin's Law, I am not a pairing-nazi; never have been, never will be. By all means, drink what you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waitman Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Charles, it goes like this: First, certain foods in combination with certain types of wine produce chemicals which most people will find unpleasant. Chardonnay with spaghetti sauce produces an appalling clash of acids in the mouth, turning the wine sour. Chardonnay with artichokes produces a chemical on the tongue which makes the wine turn uncomfortably sweet. This is not opinion; pretty much anyone can try it and make the same findings. Second, there is no perfect match for every palate but there are some really simple, general suggestions that, if followed, will reduce or eliminate the angst-inspiring part of this exercise. Finally, in reference to Rocks invocation of Godwin's Law, I am not a pairing-nazi; never have been, never will be. By all means, drink what you like. I hope I didn't imply that you were a pairing Nazi; I think Don was merely referring to my facetious invocation of The Almighty as a having a relaxed attitude towards pairings. Having happily put myself oenologically in your hands on several occasions, I know first-hand that you are both knowledgeable and flexible -- an excellent table-side guide to the sometimes voluminous wine-lists you assemble. My only point, is that the people get so caught up in the idea of serving the "right" wine, they forget that the point is to have fun, not measure up to some objective standard of perfection lest dinner be ruined and the customers at the next table sneer. I rather admire the approach of the LaRousse Gastronomique which, in its Franco-centric wine and food tables offers up not one but four different varieties of wine to match a poultry entree and five for roasts (though only Chateau Margeaux is a match for unfermented cheese). Broad guidelines rather than prescriptive focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRocks Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Years ago, I wrote a short piece for Wine Enthusiast on pairing wine with oysters. My muse was Michael Flynn, then of Kinkead's, who set me up with four dozen bivalves and several glasses of wine and proceeded to instruct me on the terroir of oysters. (At that point I was not an oyster slurper, and I prided myself for getting through that lesson without gagging or gout). For the article, I interviewed the manager of the Grand Central Oyster Bar in NYC, who told me of seeing an elderly Frenchman (he may have been wearing a beret, even, though my imagination could be adding that detail in retrospect) sitting at the bar, with a dozen oysters and a bottle of Chateau Margaux. Fearing that this pairing was an abomination, the manager asked how the customer was doing. The gentleman smiled and said, "Life eeez bee-yoo-ti-ful." Let us also remember that the région of Bordeaux is on the Atlantic Ocean, and that Château Margaux makes 3,000 cases a year of a minerally Sauvignon Blanc that goes perfectly with that region's oysters from Arcachon and Cap Ferret. Cheers, Hitler. NOW it's invoked! P.S. Just trying to show some support for the "locapour" movement. which has been "moving" in France at an escargot's pace, for about ... 1,000 years or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmwine Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Let us also remember that the région of Bordeaux is on the Atlantic Ocean, and that Château Margaux makes 3,000 cases a year of a minerally Sauvignon Blanc that goes perfectly with that region's oysters from Arcachon and Cap Ferret. Cheers, Hitler. NOW it's invoked! P.S. Just trying to show some support for the "locapour" movement. which has been "moving" in France at an escargot's pace, for about ... 1,000 years or so. Except he meant the red! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRocks Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Except he meant the red! :-) Obviously a hick from the Massif Central. I knew you meant the red. But this also reminds me of a man I knew who ordered steamed clams with drawn butter, and said, "I'm just going to throw away the clams and drink the butter." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deangold Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Let us also remember that the région of Bordeaux is on the Atlantic Ocean, and that Château Margaux makes 3,000 cases a year of a minerally Sauvignon Blanc that goes perfectly with that region's oysters from Arcachon and Cap Ferret. Cheers, Hitler. NOW it's invoked! P.S. Just trying to show some support for the "locapour" movement. But wouldn't that be Pavillion Blanc de Margaux? There are certain pairings that are a match made in heaven. Asparagus and Soave is one that comes to mind, where few other wines will do as well. Artichokes will screw up much more than Chardonnay and there a screamingly high acid white usually do the trick. Steak does better with something with astringency but that leaves a load of possibilities. Most coastal reds made in Italy do well with most fish dishes. Tocai and Ribolla have an affinity for tomato that most other whites don't have. I mean the list ain't that long and ain't that particular. The extreme of many of the counter examples goes to show Mr Sweeney's point, this ain't rocket science. While I would almost never have a rosso di Montalcino with a whole fish, I have seen enough folk do so that I can't say that either the fish or the wine f up the other, just that I would go in a different way. But my one rule for matching is just to look at what the folk eat and drink in a given spot and that gives you a good idea of what works. Then if you ahve a dish that has a lot of the same characteristics but from a different place, the same wines will go with it. Hence my love of barbera with fried fish and anchovies. This method is especially true of places that have highly specific local cuisines such as Italy, as opposed to California where almost every cuisine and every grape varietal show up in most growing regions. But if you are a lover of soft reds, most barbera won't please you, no matter that they go well with fried fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPW Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I propose a rethinking of the whole paradigm. At your average moderately priced restaurant (say Corduroy or New Heights) there are 100+ bottles of wine on the list and 6-10 apps and 6-10 entrees. Smaller selection = easier choice. Pick the wine you want to drink first and then choose what you want to eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff White Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 When in doubt or when it's more than just the two of us at a restaurant with each ordering something different, my go-to wines are dry to slightly sweet Rieslings and Pinot Noirs. And I always choose half-bottles if available. I've also found Karen MacNeil's book, Wine, Food and Friends, a great resource for pairing potentials: My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choirgirl21 Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 This thread has gone quite philosophical since I last checked in. I find the dialogue interesting, but the comment that spurred it slightly displaced since the whole purpose of this thread was to receive input when looking for a specific pairing (ie. the implication being that the person posting has already "bought into" the whole wine/food thing, or actually just finds it credible). On that note, I am making a meatloaf tomorrow - ground pork & turkey, some fennel, white wine, that sort of thing, wrapped in bacon. Served with a side of mashed potatoes and sauteed celery, mushrooms and leeks. Want a red wine. Normally I would choose pinot with these flavors, but it's meatloaf for god's sake, even if it's a twist on it so pinot seems too light to me. No, really, if I allow myself to forget the meatloaf association, I would choose a sauvignon blanc with these flavors, but even if I were willing to abandon my red wine endeavor, I don't think I have any. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toogs Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 . Pick the wine you want to drink first and then choose what you want to eat. Something something something, I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff White Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 ground pork & turkey, some fennel, white wine, that sort of thing, wrapped in bacon. Served with a side of mashed potatoes and sauteed celery, mushrooms and leeks. Want a red wine. Thoughts? My first thought is a Chianti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjsadler Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I like the "Wine With" column at Wine Review Online. Every couple weeks they pick a dish and throw a bunch of wines at it to see what works. The results are often interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choirgirl21 Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 I like the "Wine With" column at Wine Review Online. Every couple weeks they pick a dish and throw a bunch of wines at it to see what works. The results are often interesting. I will definitely be bookmarking this page. I just wish they would also share the wines that didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmm Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 A friend is coming over for dinner tomorrow night and he is bringing a mature bottle of Barolo, what should I make? I prefer to grill but not a requirement. I have had only two mature Barolos, so I do not have much experience with them. Two years ago I had a '90 Altare that tasted like a mincemeat pie and a few months ago a '00 Brovia that tasted like a Smith Brothers cherry cough drop with orange peel. Suggestions will be greatly appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRocks Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 A friend is coming over for dinner tomorrow night and he is bringing a mature bottle of Barolo, what should I make? I prefer to grill but not a requirement. I have had only two mature Barolos, so I do not have much experience with them. Two years ago I had a '90 Altare that tasted like a mincemeat pie and a few months ago a '00 Brovia that tasted like a Smith Brothers cherry cough drop with orange peel. Suggestions will be greatly appreciated! Serve a mincemeat pie made with cherries and orange peel (or gnocchi with bacon and mushrooms). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmm Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 If I go with the pie option do I serve the wine in a dessert glass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezy Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Having friends over for dinner. Making shrimp & spoonbread with red-eye gravy -- similar to the Epicurious recipe. The gravy has Madeira in it. . Most folks will probably choose beer for dinner, and I've got plenty of whites to choose from here at the house but am out of red wines to offer. Looking in the $15 or so price range. Suggestions appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparrott Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 May be too late, but this sounds like gamay territory to me. Or maybe a Frappato from Sicily, though that may be hard in your price range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezy Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 May be too late, but this sounds like gamay territory to me. Or maybe a Frappato from Sicily, though that may be hard in your price range. Not too late :-) The dinner is Sunday night. I wanted to give time for ideas to come in before I went shopping. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRocks Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 May be too late, but this sounds like gamay territory to me. Totally agree ... get any Beaujolais or Beaujolais-Villages imported by Elite Wines, Potomac Selections, or Wine Traditions (just call your retailer and ask). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezy Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Totally agree ... get any Beaujolais or Beaujolais-Villages imported by Elite Wines, Potomac Selections, or Wine Traditions (just call your retailer and ask). A concensus! Perfect. Thank you thank you. BTW, Don, I saw on the news that Va. vineyards' sales are up 11% over the past year. Let me just commend you on your prodigious efforts to fuel the local winemakers' and state's economy. I just hope you have the number to a liver specialist on speed-dial after 426000 cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRocks Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 A concensus! Perfect. Thank you thank you. BTW, Don, I saw on the news that Va. vineyards' sales are up 11% over the past year. Let me just commend you on your prodigious efforts to fuel the local winemakers' and state's economy. I just hope you have the number to a liver specialist on speed-dial after 426000 cases. My liver specialist is Dr. David McIntyre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezy Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 My liver specialist is Dr. David McIntyre. Good to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tujague Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Here's an interesting video interview with my friend Sean Diggins, wine director at Gitane in San Francisco, on pairing sherry with food. Looking forward to dining there later this month and enjoying his recommendations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparrott Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Gitane is excellent. Very good sherry cocktails at the bar as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 My wife and I are dining in for Valentine's Day. Given our crazy work schedules of late, we are doing a carryout dinner from a local restaurant. One of the courses we are getting is a "Surf and Turf" of Filet Mignon and Jumbo-Lump Crabcake. What wine should I pair with it? Ideally, I would prefer red and am thinking Pinot Noir at the moment (I can't rember what all I have at home) but am open to all suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparrott Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Going to betray my own biases here (and my guess is I am a bit late), but a light cru Beaujolais would be my choice. A Fleurie, St.-Amour, or Chiroubles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lperry Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 What is the proper pairing for a snowstorm of Titanic proportions? Champagne? Or maybe it's a cocktail sort of event, crushed ice and whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyVanWise Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 What is the proper pairing for a snowstorm of Titanic proportions? Champagne? Or maybe it's a cocktail sort of event, crushed ice and whatnot. Bourbon, neat until the ice comes, then chip some off for a slushie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRocks Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 What is the proper pairing for a snowstorm of Titanic proportions? Champagne? Or maybe it's a cocktail sort of event, crushed ice and whatnot. Palena: dine-in and carryout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lperry Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Bourbon, neat until the ice comes, then chip some off for a slushie. My mother and I once had an excellent time making frozen mint juleps in a blender. By the time we had the proportions of everything in balance, neither of us cared anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezy Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Does anyone have a white wine suggestion for a pizza party? I've been asked to bring along a white or two, someone else having already volunteered on the reds. Prices under $20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Slater Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Alsace Riesling or Gruner Veltliner, maybe Albarií±o. Definitely not Chardonnay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezy Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Thanks so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Boy Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I'll second the Grí¼ner Veltliner suggestion. There are also some great Sardegnian wines too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezy Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 and thank you as well. Makes sense that Sardegnian wines would probably work well with pizza, since they both come from the same part of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr food Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 white wine with salad, red wine with pizza. Remember, white wine is what you drink before red wine says Bruno Prats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezy Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Well, if you can force them white wine drinkers to switch to red and vice-versa, you're a better person than me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmoomau Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 What alcoholic beverage should I serve with ham, hoppin john, collards and biscuits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezy Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I'd go with bourbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Funny...we're doing much the same, with some fried chicken and pimento cheese thrown in the mix. I have been aging some whiskey cocktails (Manhattans and Old Pals) with barrel char I picked up at the Willett distillery, but am also planning on plenty of beer and champagne. I'm also feeling a white, maybe a Riesling? I dunno...I imagine we'll try a little of everything I have around the house tomorrow . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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